Embaressed Guardian :(

[Sirlutt]

lvl 30 Guard tanking yellows in EL, i was getting chewed up majorly .. i have mostly legendary gear, steel, mixed with feyiron.. my mit is pretty good.. my avoid about 46%.;. all spells are adept1 or greater with my master II spent on my AE taunt.  But man was i get chewed up, so much so that the healer couldnt keep up. We changed to having a 37 Assassin tank, cos he was easier to heal and kept agro better than me..  i couldnt keep agro from him even with my hate reducer on him... and with HTL up.. sure he is 7 levels higher but my mit, HP, and avoid were higher than his. My Pally on the other hand has similar mit, (again legendary stuff) but hold agro SO much easier, with half as many taunts. And then it hit me, the guardians buff reduces the agro of the person you put it on, the pallys transfers 16%+ of that agro to the pally.  What we need is a group, AE buff that has a 5% chance to "proc" each time someone hits a mob and transfer 15% of their agro to us.  Play with the numbers, but give us something like that. i was very embaressed that a scout was tanking and not me. <div></div>

[Vandileir]

<P>Do not take that to heart. Color con plays a huge part now. what is yellow to you at 30, is green to someone who is 37. 7 lvls is a huge gap. Dont be supprised or embaressed if you loose aggro to someone that many lvls ahead of you. it's just going to happen.</P> <P>As for the paladin tanking better, all I can do is assume (having never leveled one) that he had his aggro steal skill on the asn. You may be able to nerf the asn's aggro gain, but a paladin will nerf it, and what he nerf's gets added to his own aggro table. so basically, the more aggro the asn generated, the more was absorbed by the paladin. but i guess you already know that.</P> <P>as long as the lvls are close range, a guard should have no aggro issues, it's just a little repetetive with casting/canceling HTL all the dam time. that is specifically why i dont play my guard anymore, i find the style of tanking very limited now. </P> <P>I really would love to see SoE remove/revamp the protection line. It's absolutely disheartening if you compare them to some other class's "defining" abilities. The other thing that majorly hurts us (and all fighters too, but since it's our claim to fame, i think it hit's us hardest) is the resists on taunts, especially fighting high color cons. </P> <P>Hell, I can deal with guards the way they were now if not for the Root on HTL. it's pointless and ultimately kills the fun of tanking on that class.</P> <P>Message Edited by Vandileir on <SPAN class=date_text>12-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:41 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Vandileir on <span class=date_text>12-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:46 PM</span>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vandileir wrote:<BR> <P>Hell, I can deal with guards the way they were now if not for the Root on HTL. it's pointless and ultimately kills the fun of tanking on that class.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I agree, I feel insulted every time my group moves on and I'm still back at the last spot fumbling for the icon to toggle off just so I can move.  I would really like to see the root removed completely from this line, or possibly have it (and the combat art) break after each encounter is over and aggro is cleared.  Another possibility would be snare instead of root.  At least then, when my group moves on (which I am <EM>supposed</EM> to be leading btw), I could hit numlock and get moving in their direction, albeit slowly, and then reach over and turn off the combat art icon WHILE I am moving.  This would improve the spell dramatically.  If you haven't used this combat art or one like it night after night, you can't possibly realize how demoralizing it is.  The root component just feels like a cheap, petty, unnecessary punishment for being a guardian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aar]

You do realize of course that hitting the hotkey for the HTL line cancels it when its active?And you can use keyboard shorcuts for these arts and you don't have to use the mouse to click it?Right clicking and cancelling it from the maintained window....ouch.<div></div>

[Ladicav]

<DIV> <DIV>In theory if you need to move, then usually it means you have lost agro or, the group has won the battle. What is the root component for?</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if it is that straightforwards as just pushing a button, then can you remind us all why the root is even needed in the first place, because I am at a loss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ladicav on <span class=date_text>12-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:57 PM</span>

[Vandileir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>  If you haven't used this combat art or one like it night after night, you can't possibly realize how demoralizing it is.  The root component just feels like a cheap, petty, unnecessary punishment for being a guardian.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>this is exactly why we root/stun/snare/lower dps/cripple our selves into submission. It was a change purposely made to discourgae playing guardians. I dont know about other servers, but on guk I saw at least 2 guards for every 1 other fighter class i came accross pre LU13. guardians are the way they are now to encourage the use of other fighters. this is why we are functioning "as intended" and also why no help is coming. </P> <P>the root is OBVIOUSLY not needed and only there to make it a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to play, and so i feel insulted and degraded every time I use it, which is why i dont play that class anymore.<BR></P>

[Vorlak]

I like the root effect when the AE fear goes off and everybody goes running i stay at the mob.

[Krooner]

<DIV>Ummm unless things have been changed behind the scenes the root has never protected us from running around when we get feared</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[salle]

Well just last night in Roost I got feared by the skelly snake, but as usual I stay in my spot turning randomly untill fear dropps and I'm back hitting on the mob again.The same goes for beeing charmed, if you have friends close by you start hitting them, but if they are further away you stay rooted and don't even shoot arrows at them.

[Krooner]

<P>Then things have definatly changed.</P> <P>We will have to try this next time we take on Spiregaze.</P> <P> </P>

[Allowin]

<DIV>not to bring this up to add more gas to the fire, but the pally hate transfer spell is bugged too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>they transfer hate from a group member to themselves. guardians just decrease the hate, but a pally can use a bug and actually cast their hate transfer spell to everybody in their group. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>weve acutally been in a raid and had our guild pally (whos main roll was to rez and spot heal and ward with a side dose of dps....sure would be nice as a guardian to have any of these abilities)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and he was non stop pulling aggro off the MT because of the dps his group was doing (my wizard was one of those in his group)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now for a pally to pull aggro away from a MT doing NO dps or healing the MT,  JUST because his hate reduction spell on his group members..........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but nooooo, were balanced. and we ARE working as the brains at sony want us to be</DIV>

[landru]

<DIV>The hold the line series roots us for a purpose.  To protect us from fears, but funny enough it doesn't protect us from the mobs that like to punt us 50 meters with a knock back.  Even though we are supposed to be rooted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we can't move</DIV> <DIV>Can't be run off with a fear spell</DIV> <DIV>then how are they punting us across the zone with knock backs? Aren't we rooted?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Gladius</DIV>

[Tro]

I use to disagree with the root component of MD but after I learned that it will hold while you are feared/charmed.. it doesnt seem that bad.. and now we can just click the Icon to drop it pretty fast so all in all I think it is a good thing..

[Kine]

I love the root component of HTL series for that very reason (resisting fears). It was a pain to get used to the root component at first, but it can be toggled on and off so quickly I dont mind it at all anymore and I use it on every single fight. Like someone else suggested above, if you are using your mouse to toggle it, it will be much more tedious. Set it on your main hotbar in the "1" position and just use the keyboard to control. Click once it is on, click again it is off. You will do it without even having to think about it  in no time.

[Ladicav]

I would rather be snared than rooted to the spot. I think the lack of mobility overall counteracts the few times you may come across being feared. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why don't any of the other fighters get rooted to the spot when using one of their main taunts? It's like SOE says to us, "Hey we are giving you what we consider to be your defining line of agro maintenance, but hell we are soooooo going to make you pay for it"</DIV>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ladicav wrote:<BR>I would rather be snared than rooted to the spot. I think the lack of mobility overall counteracts the few times you may come across being feared. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Why don't any of the other fighters get rooted to the spot when using one of their main taunts?</FONT> It's like SOE says to us, "Hey we are giving you what we consider to be your defining line of agro maintenance, but hell we are soooooo going to make you pay for it"</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Berserkers get rooted as well.</DIV>

[Hend]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ladicav wrote:<BR>I would rather be snared than rooted to the spot. I think the lack of mobility overall counteracts the few times you may come across being feared. <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>From test update #18:</P> <P>- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.</P> <P>I wonder what "heavy" means :smileyindifferent:</P> <DIV>Vork, 55 guardian</DIV><p>Message Edited by Hendis on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:43 PM</span>

[Ladicav]

<DIV>Not sure how heavy, heavy snare is.</DIV> <DIV>Usually I would need to move small amounts, to pull a mob out of a wall to counteract the cannot see target message or some such. In places like tunnels of CT where the tunnels are kind of narrow you can get a multi mob encounter where a few of the mobs are half in a wall and can hit you but you can't hit them back. Pain in the rear end having to click on, click off, move, click on, click off, move again, click on, click off.....</DIV> <DIV>Every time you click on and off, it uses power, which could be used for something else, like taunting. Even if snared at least can move to position a mob without having to spend power clicking on and off all the time. The required movements would be shortish, and snare wouldn't be overly bothersome. If you need to move a longer distance, then clicking it off is still the better option.</DIV>

[Pry]

<P>The snare will be so heavy as to make it that moving is even more annoying (like being 400% overburdened) than just being rooted in the first place.  Therefore, you will say how much it sucks so SOE can say "See, we told you the root was the right way to go in the first place!"  </P> <P>You can figure this out too if you know how they think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prynn wrote:<BR> <P>The snare will be so heavy as to make it that moving is even more annoying (like being 400% overburdened) than just being rooted in the first place.  Therefore, you will say how much it sucks so SOE can say "See, we told you the root was the right way to go in the first place!"  </P> <P>You can figure this out too if you know how they think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>But you'll still be able to turn the snare on and off immediately just like you do now with the root, unless that gets changed, which it wont.  I'm grateful for this improvement, and I think the fear issue is minimal either way.  Think how many times you've been feared in the entire time you've been playing EQ2, maybe a handful, and then go look at EQ2players and see how many tens of thousands of mobs you've killed without fear being an issue, and without needing some kind of impediment that may secondarily protect you from it.</P> <P> </P>