Armor is all cleaned up and the sword is sharpened.

[Raahl]

<DIV>I've brought Corwin out of retirement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure what, if anything, has changed.  But I had some fun running around Lavastorm and CT with a group.   Could be an issue with DoF.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I will start to post issues I see and suggestions as I see them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think a large number of us, including myself, are comparing Guardians to other tanks too much.  </DIV> <OL> <LI>We (guardians) need to identify our real issues and post them.   The only way to do this is to play your guardian.</LI> <LI>We need to stop comparing ourselves to other classes.  Just mentioning another class invites a flame war and accomplishes nothing.</LI> <LI>And if you are totally fed up with the game and the current state of guardians.  Take a break from the game or play another class.  It seemed to help me.</LI></OL> <P>I ask those who do not play guardians, to please refrain from taking any baits and getting into flame wars.   </P><p>Message Edited by Raahl on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

[Briz]

<P>Welcome back.</P> <P>FWIW, I don't have any huge problems in DoF, except maybe tanking the CQ4 encounter - but then again, I'm still just lvl 52.</P> <P>Enjoy the Guardian Shield CA upgrade, it's well worth your time to play around with it.</P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brizzy wrote:<BR> <P>Welcome back.</P> <P>FWIW, I don't have any huge problems in DoF, except maybe tanking the CQ4 encounter - but then again, I'm still just lvl 52.</P> <P>Enjoy the Guardian Shield CA upgrade, it's well worth your time to play around with it.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Could be my equipment.  Ebon was way too expensive, though now they are resonably priced.  However why waste the money when in 3 levels or so I'll want cobalt. 

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brizzy wrote:<BR> <P>Welcome back.</P> <P>FWIW, I don't have any huge problems in DoF, except maybe tanking the CQ4 encounter - but then again, I'm still just lvl 52.</P> <P>Enjoy the Guardian Shield CA upgrade, it's well worth your time to play around with it.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Could be my equipment.  Ebon was way too expensive, though now they are resonably priced.  However why waste the money when in 3 levels or so I'll want cobalt.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You dont have any problems. Here is how we did it and the MT still died once a fight if not more. 4 groups non raided, one group at a time agro and engage the named with lock encounter flag off. So we had really 4 groups beating the snot out of this encounter, MT was level 58 I think at the time, and he still died every round we did for each of the groups. That encounter is freaking way under con, and wacked. This was pre LU16, not sure if anything has changed.

[craized warrior]

<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <DIV>I've brought Corwin out of retirement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure what, if anything, has changed.  But I had some fun running around Lavastorm and CT with a group.   Could be an issue with DoF.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I will start to post issues I see and suggestions as I see them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think a large number of us, including myself, are comparing Guardians to other tanks too much.  </DIV> <OL> <LI>We (guardians) need to identify our real issues and post them.   The only way to do this is to play your guardian.</LI> <LI><STRONG><EM><U><FONT color=#99ff00>We need to stop comparing ourselves to other classes.  Just mentioning another class invites a flame war and accomplishes nothing.</FONT></U></EM></STRONG></LI> <LI>And if you are totally fed up with the game and the current state of guardians.  Take a break from the game or play another class.  It seemed to help me.</LI></OL> <P>I ask those who do not play guardians, to please refrain from taking any baits and getting into flame wars.   </P> <P>Message Edited by Raahl on <SPAN class=date_text>11-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:21 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>After reading this, i agree with most of what your saying, but im of the opinion that your second point is a bit off-centre in that i believe our main problem right now is the other classes ( a few in particular that im sure i really dont need to mention if youve been reading these boards over the last month or so) and our place amongst them, and in particular how we measure up against them. </P> <P>Guardians are still good tanks (if you know how to play them and have decent armour) but we lack in other areas and we are (as far as fighter classes are concerned) not balanced. this is what needs changing really, we need to be balanced, soe caved in to the complaints made by a vocal minority and changed it so all fighter classes could tank equally well, they did not however take into account the fact that we cant do anywhere near the dps of the (the monk classes not the crusader classes) other fighter classes and we dont have utility that is as useful as the other fighter classes. </P> <P>My point is, the only reason we feel the need for change is because of comparisons to other classes.</P>

[Veesh]

<P>Well I kind of agree with you <SPAN>crazied warrior but honestly I wouldn't have cared one lick about how much more DPS or Utility the 'other tank' classes brought to the group if I could have just held argo when they were in my group and not felt like such a waste of a group spot, I would still be very happy even though we were not on a even playing field but it seemed the playing field was so skewed it really bothered me (this is not a post to nerf any classes, it is a post to try and make the dev's see we Guards need some love). </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Also what was even more dishearting was the fact after I said hey you midas well tank to the 'other class', we started to kill the mobs much much faster as the other DPS classes could open up more and use thier high hitters more often. I had our ranger say something along the lines of 'this is sick how well he holds argo, I am kinda trying to pull it off him but I can't'. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I guess it comes down to this we do not compare tank wise to those 'other tank' classes when it comes to doing heroic's, in fact we slow a group down. I feel like we are that guy we all have worked with that is a nice guy but coulnd't do his job very well so everyone else covered for him.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Oh I will add this to the post for those of you who are going to say what spells / gear etc etc ... cause that's why you were losing argo ... At lvl 45 I have all my hate gen CA's at Adept 3 or Master 2, all my other spells are a mix of Ad3's / Adept 1's and App 4's. My gear is full t5 legendary  except my BP which is fabled and has a reflect proc, hell I even have the horse from the Blades Maj'Dul faction house that gives bonuses to some of my offensive stats. I know how to tank pretty good, I use my HTL every fight after I get the mob positioned properly, if a hate gen CA is up I use it. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Now you might say well the 'other class' could have had hate his hate gen CA up that has a % to gen argo with each hit he makes, maybe he did ... but really if I have my HTL on and I am spamming taunts should he really be able to take argo from me so easy? It would seem to me the answer would be NO cause I have a comparable CA up (Maddening Defense) but I am spamming taunts, he wasn't.  I will also add this for you number crunchers he was one level above me and we were fighting mobs that were one level below me, even to me and one level above me.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Cheers<BR>A fustrated level 45 Guardian.</SPAN></P>

[Raahl]

<DIV>We can suggest changes that increase utility or DPS without pointing to another class.</DIV>