Taunts: The Main Event!

[MrDiz]

At this moment the biggest issue with guardians seems to be taunts. Which is odd because apparantly thats our new niche. So what problems do I feel there are with taunts?1) On single target we really do suck at hate. 2) On multi mobs we are good (not the best) BUT we use so much power that we are a time sink for a group.3) The taunts are unreliable due to resists.Ok these are the problems. So what are the solutions?

[blueduckie]

<P>I doubt we will see our taunts improved. For raids they gave classes hate transers or hate reducers (bards having the best) for that reason to make well balanced raids a bit better. Then for grouping if a dps tries to burn all of its power as fast as it can will peel for challenge so have to pace power to matching amount of mobs being pulled. Is just how i have approached it. Since dev posts lead to believe they are saying taunts are fine am going with that. We have no dirge for our raids but when we use 2 troubador lowing dps hate our rangers wizards etc can do 90% of there potential dps. If we added a dirge or coercer to mt group definatly dps can go 100%. We have used an assassin before but waste of buff slots. Dps can go 100% when assassin is giving hate transfer on mt tho.</P> <P>I think if they fixxed hate tranfers like assuage assasins etc raid wide hate would be fixxed for it. However group control is just mostly pulling fast enough where dps doesnt feel like it isnt doing anything or using up any power so they dont feel like fully blasting on mobs IMO. Just my 2 cents on it every one has diff groups etc.</P> <P>Also if you lack aggro in cases from missing mobs etc. Try switching in a Inq to your group. Surprising as i found it helps accuracy more thasn templar or warden buff. Almost never miss with it so something to consider trying. Aggro is the "challenge" to tanking now. Where some might have better single target aggro have found if we can hit the mobs to use our dps skills along with taunts in any situation dps can at least do 75% of there max dps potential.</P>

[Drulak]

<P>Not everything in this game relates to raids. I believe mr Dizzi is talking about our taunts for grouping.  Since this is a much bigger content of the game , lets listen to what he has to say please rather than spouting on about switching in chars. Might work well in raids , but that is a very very very small part of this game. lets fix it for th bigger gaming community shall we.</P> <P>Most group si know do not have the luxury of dropping a warden to stick in an inquisitor</P>

[Ladicav]

<DIV>MrDizzi. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no niche. It was just clever side stepping from Moorgard to try and placate us. His words on paper, actually sound attractive but on single target agro, we are perhaps the worst of all the fighters, or if not the worst, not very far from it. We are certainly not the best, or even close. AOE taunts, well every fighter classes get a minimum of at least one, in some form or another. We are OK at it, but like you say, it uses a lot of power, but being OK at something, isn't the definition of excelling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So trying to keep this post short and to the point, the sum of it is, we do not excel at hate generation and we do not excel at hate maintenance. If we excelled, by dictionary definition, we would be superior to all other fighters in this area. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That to me is the definition of a Guardian. We have no flash and sexy abilities as per Moorgard. If we were to have our avoidance reduced, then fine. If our Mitigation was to be reduced then fine again, I think many of us have come to terms with these changes. But the exchange for these things was we should have the mobs attention better than any other fighter, once again as per Moorgard. If the mob is on the Guardian, then he is doing the defined role, of protecting comrades.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The solution is obvious. Agro generation and control is what Moorgard defined the Guardian class to excel at above and beyond all the other fighter archetypes, so, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] well give it to us.</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR>At this moment the biggest issue with guardians seems to be taunts. Which is odd because apparantly thats our new niche. So what problems do I feel there are with taunts?<BR><BR>1) On single target we really do suck at hate. <BR><BR>2) On multi mobs we are good (not the best) BUT we use so much power that we are a time sink for a group.<BR><BR>3) The taunts are unreliable due to resists.<BR><BR>Ok these are the problems. So what are the solutions?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok after coming out of retirement and playing for a week here's my assessment of our taunts.</P> <OL> <LI>Single target, we are just as effective at gaining and keeping hate as we do for group targets.  The mob hits us and we spam all of our taunts, including our AoE Taunt.   Are we the best here, no.  But we are more than capable of keeping aggro.</LI> <LI>Multiple mobs, we are a little weak here.  Nothing earth shattering, just a little weak.  With only 2 Group taunts and maddening defense, maintaining aggro can be difficult.  Especially with adds.  If the mob is not hitting us it's especially difficult to gain and hold aggro.</LI> <LI>Fighting mobs in LavaStorm and CT, the resists were not so bad.  Granted they were blue to white con.  Yellow and above could be a lot worse.</LI></OL> <P>Possible solution would be to reduce the casting time on our group taunts.</P> <P> </P>

[Kine]

<DIV>Its not so bad on blue/whites/ Go fight some yellow cons Raahl. If the dps'ers want to go above 50% of their ability expect ping pong agro. The taunt resists occur at a ridiculous lvl.</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kinen1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Its not so bad on blue/whites/ Go fight some yellow cons Raahl. If the dps'ers want to go above 50% of their ability expect ping pong agro. The taunt resists occur at a ridiculous lvl.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have no doubt they are worse.  Do taunts and resisted taunts get put in the logs?  We could parse out the taunts and see what the % of resists are. 

[Briz]

<P>I'm curious about this number myself. I don't agree that our taunt issues are that bad, but some numbers on the table could help figure things out.</P> <P>We'd also want to look at numbers for other fighter classes as well, as well as CA quality and levels, because this wouldn't work in a vacuum. A half hour xping on mobs won't cut it, we'd need some real substance to make this work. Several hours per class, at least.</P> <DIV>EDIT: Me type pretty one day.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Brizzy on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:18 AM</span>

[Prufro]

I group a lot with a ranger, and we found that when taking on 4 level higher yellows or oranges my taunts worked a lot better if he would apply a mental debuff poison.  It can be applied with the rangers main damage poison, so you don't lose any dps to do it. The t5 poison debuffed by around 600 mental resist, not sure what the t6 does. <div></div>

[MrDiz]

Well I know I cant taunt single targets aswell as most other fighters just from having taunt competitions. Even brawlers 5 and 6 levels lower than me can pull aggro from me if they try even if im dual wielding with fabled. And yes im fully adept3/master2 on the aggro department.But to be honest the worst thing for me about taunts are the sheer power cost. I almost always end fights having used 2 to 3 times the power of the dps and healer. Obviously most of them have gebs, ring of nightblood and prismatics so that may have something to do with it.Many of my regular groupies now dont even bother drinking as they will hit 100% and start nagging me to pull even though im only at 40%.Do other fighters have this issue?

[Raahl]

<DIV>Yes I tend to use a lot of power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I need to re-test my Maddening Defense.  I tested it before and it uses power each time it taunts a mob.  Someone said that this didn't happen to them.  Will retest again.</DIV>

[Kine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kinen1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Its not so bad on blue/whites/ Go fight some yellow cons Raahl. If the dps'ers want to go above 50% of their ability expect ping pong agro. The taunt resists occur at a ridiculous lvl.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have no doubt they are worse.  Do taunts and resisted taunts get put in the logs?  We could parse out the taunts and see what the % of resists are.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thats a good idea. Several of us should log some fights and check on this. Fight blue, white and yellow. If possible do it with and without mental debuffs and we can see how much of an effect that has as well.

[Drulak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR>Well I know I cant taunt single targets aswell as most other fighters just from having taunt competitions. Even brawlers 5 and 6 levels lower than me can pull aggro from me if they try even if im dual wielding with fabled. And yes im fully adept3/master2 on the aggro department.<BR><BR>But to be honest the worst thing for me about taunts are the sheer power cost. I almost always end fights having used 2 to 3 times the power of the dps and healer. Obviously most of them have gebs, ring of nightblood and prismatics so that may have something to do with it.<BR><BR>Many of my regular groupies now dont even bother drinking as they will hit 100% and start nagging me to pull even though im only at 40%.<BR><BR>Do other fighters have this issue?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>YUp big time , i was tanking for a group fighting harpies - yellow ^^^ , i had one of the mages (necro ?) constantly giving me hearts , to increase my power - . The healer and mages were all on near max power while i was always on 2 bars or less . i did keep aggro though , apart from a few losses when one of the mages really let loose <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[craized warrior]

im always the guy on the lowest power in my group, usually by a large amount, and i still loose agro to dps, or healers from time to time even while spamming taunts with maddening defense up. (i have all adept 3 taunts)

[Benfyn]

<DIV>Wanted to add in a few comments here on taunting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While we only get 2 taunts that effect the encounter I have found that combining Reinforcement with Tremor attack to be a very effective area taunt. Also, since reinforcement turns a physical attack into a taunt you can actually use it in conjunction with Goarding Assault (or Taunting Assault if that is what you currently have) and it becomes a powerful ecnounter taunt. Problem is Reinforcement only lasts for 15 seconds so make sure both of these are cycled when you trigger it. In addition to that, while I cannot confirm this, I do believe damage shields attribute the damage done to the target and not the caster of the spell. So if a Fury puts a damage shield on me then the damage done when I am struck counts as damage I have dealt. This seems to also proc Reinforcements taunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So unless I am wrong I'd recommend having a potion on hand that casts a damage shield, regardless of how little the damage it does, and using it prior to casting Reinforcement. Sort of like Potion+Reinforcement+Goading Assault+Tremor and then toss on Plant (Anchor/Entrench line) for the area debuff for that insult to injury.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That seems to be my most effective mid-fight combo for maintaining aggro control. If your DPS crew can give you a heads up on the AE nukes and big attacks then this can be extremely effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now for my issue with taunts, specifically Inflaming Defense. This line is still burning way too much power. I am continuously being asked by people if I am drinking during the fight only now I can tell them to inspect me if they don't believe because they can see my food/drink slots. Of course now they want to know where I get my stacks of 20 mental core breaches. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This has got to be reduced. While it is still effective even when I am depserately low on power my low power level completely removes any other options. Worse, if I have to cancel it to move to try and regain hate from a mob that is now out of range I am unable to recast it as I have no power left. All the Monkey totems, manastones, vessels, potions and power conservation in the world isn't enough to compensate for the unavoidable drain of power when using this combat art against a group of mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this were halved it would be a start and not something that could be considered game-breaking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krrrath, lvl 60 Guardian of Kithicor</DIV>

[Wli]

<P>Does the HtL line drain power now, for a fact(is it writen in the description) ?</P> <P>Right when the changes came(DoF/LU13), it did not drain any power. I am sure. The descrip´tion did not state power drain(for each taunt fire, as the original Hold the Line stated).</P> <P>Thats a bummer, another nerf I missed. (For the last two months I was harvesting/crafting, so I can now go out and adventure, in all legendary. You know, thats entry gear required for a guardian...)</P>

[Benfyn]

<P>It is definitely draining power, if this is a bug then it needs to be fixed. I don't think it is in the CA description but if I do nothing else and just remain with Inflaming Defense active each time it procs a taunt (there is a graphic for it as well as the taunt effect graphic on the mob) I see my power drop. I really notice it in poets against the scarab ring events or against the larger groups of minotaurs. The more mobs, the more hits, the great chance of it to proc and the faster the drain. </P> <P>Again, if it is intended it needs to be reduced but if this is a bug then it needs to be fixed. </P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Benfynyn wrote:<BR> <P>It is definitely draining power, if this is a bug then it needs to be fixed. I don't think it is in the CA description but if I do nothing else and just remain with Inflaming Defense active each time it procs a taunt (there is a graphic for it as well as the taunt effect graphic on the mob) I see my power drop. I really notice it in poets against the scarab ring events or against the larger groups of minotaurs. The more mobs, the more hits, the great chance of it to proc and the faster the drain. </P> <P>Again, if it is intended it needs to be reduced but if this is a bug then it needs to be fixed. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks I thought it was just me noticing it.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[blueduckie]

<P>Best thing on group aggro is to tank advantage of shield bash. The blur on it nulls aggro. Shield bash 1-2 taunts and 90% of the time aggro is right back to you. The mob is stunned during all of this so it is almost as if it never aggro changed at all. If alot of classes are using there big hits early into fights then it is a problem. Quelling Strike and Blast are bigger aggro bursts than are actual taunts. DPS is curcial into aggro. If you have a good healer you trust and arnt already try using offense stance for groups. It isnt a big difference in dmg. Noticable but a 54+ healer with m2 heal will have np. If mid 40's to 50 m2 in t5 heal will have np. The 53-56 range if fighting yellows is where youd need to be careful with o stance if healer isnt 54+ with the master 2.</P> <P>Aggro is like a game of chess now. Is why we have alot of saves. Sentry Watch, Reinforcment, Commanding Aura, Rescue, Guardian Sphere, Sentry all help alot with aggro peels. Even if not all of them put aggro back on us. It can make a dps able to tank the mob np. assuage adept 3 is very important for xping IMO. It on a ranger makes a big difference.</P> <P>Never really struggled to much with group aggro on a class except conjuror and it was always pets for me. Rangers if they have adept 3 in there aggro reduction is a PERMA 48% reduction. Add assuage and it is 76% aggro reduction. Ranger i group with has full adept 3's geared out in t6 fabled / legendary and doesnt peel aggro on our instance runs unless lop. As others have said in groups I am always lowest on power in group i use manastone every hit is only saver.</P> <P>If you have dps you constantly group with something to consider. Have your dps burn 20% a fight tell them that is there limit but to spread out that use so it isnt all used at once. Mobs die wicked fast and if it is a full group can be tricky. Best suggestion is. Pull with confront( deafen line) protect, then immediatly use shield stun and unforgiving strike. If multiple mobs then use goading assault (tautning assault line) and tremor. Very little aggro problems except over zerkers and warlocks. Conjuror pet sometime depending if i can put assuage on the pet or not. Dps in my group normally says can go about 75% max potential dps on raids and xp groups / instance groups. Which is good enough to get 18-20% an hour xp with vitality change.</P>

[MrDiz]

Blueduckie, i dont have trouble with aggro but i cant out aggro a brawler on single target and I cant out aggro a pally on multi mob encounters. Try having a competition with them for who can get and kp aggro.So our taunts may be adequate, but they are not the best. I was under the impression that that was to be the warriors forte according to Moorguard. If I was in error in this then someone needs to explain his comments.But as stated the biggest issue is the sheer ammount of power drained. All downtime seems to be from me. Not a problem for me since i dinged 60 last night <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[lostsandman]

<DIV>Is the monk and the pally taunting or only u taunting? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have found that if they are not taunting then i can hold agro easly but if they are I always loose it to them (i guess this is how its meant to be).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't normally loose agro to people but i do sometime loose it to AE DPS if my taunt got resistet etc. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[blueduckie]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR>Blueduckie, i dont have trouble with aggro but i cant out aggro a brawler on single target and I cant out aggro a pally on multi mob encounters. Try having a competition with them for who can get and kp aggro.<BR><BR>So our taunts may be adequate, but they are not the best. I was under the impression that that was to be the warriors forte according to Moorguard. If I was in error in this then someone needs to explain his comments.<BR><BR>But as stated the biggest issue is the sheer ammount of power drained. All downtime seems to be from me. Not a problem for me since i dinged 60 last night <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>We are kinda imbetween both. Paladins are probably the safest slackest aggro. We do use more power but can hold aggro with just dps skills 90% of the time in xp groups. If i lose it staggering rush taunt taunt it is right back. We have better ae aggro control than brawlers so them having single target isnt real void. We out last paladins on multiple encounters. Paladin hate mostly comes from amends. Does nothing for them on another encounter add like maddening defense does for us. Some tweaking perhaps. I like the idea of them turning assuage into a mini amends.

[Drulak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lostsandman wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is the monk and the pally taunting or only u taunting? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have found that if they are not taunting then i can hold agro easly but if they are I always loose it to them (i guess this is how its meant to be).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't normally loose agro to people but i do sometime loose it to AE DPS if my taunt got resistet etc. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I bet a brawler could nick aggro from you even without using taunts.  Now that would be playing his class badly , but i (as my monk) can get aggro from a guard without even using any attacks other than auto attack. (they didn't use HTL)  rare event(this happened once all night  , but just showing the extremes here.</P> <P>And if i spam my attacks (not the way to play a non MT brawler , but was just a fun experiment)  i got aggro everytime.</P> <P>If i tanked the encounter , i would hold aggro everytime without ever hitting a taunt.  The dps output of a monk is so nice , that if you just spamm as much damage as you can , then the hate generated is too much for anyone to pull aggro away.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now this is all with low level Chars (27th) , so it be interesting to hear how a 60th guard / monk got on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NB before anyone asks , no i do not have the aggro generating stance up , as it is a 28th spell , so i do not have it yet <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raahl]

Wow Blueduckie I did not know that about shield bash.  Thanks for the tip.

[Kine]

Yes, the shield bash is a good tip. I agree with and already use most of the agro control techniques you all are discussing. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When fighting yellow mobs, the degree to which the dps'ers must hold back in order for guardians to hold agro is a big problem. Seriously, if they push their dmg to even 75% potential all hell breaks loose with agro. It never used to be like this. Nuke-crazy mages and over-zealous scouts could always pull agro, but now even those holding back often do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the options are either the group reigns in its damage alot or kills reasonably fast making the guards life hell. Both of these suck IMO.</DIV>

[Raahl]

<P>I started a thread, in the combat arts forum, asking to have the extra power cost removed from the HTL CA's.  At the very least they should change the description to show what the cost is for each taunt.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=70008" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=70008</A></P>

[blueduckie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kinen1 wrote:<BR> Yes, the shield bash is a good tip. I agree with and already use most of the agro control techniques you all are discussing. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When fighting yellow mobs, the degree to which the dps'ers must hold back in order for guardians to hold agro is a big problem. Seriously, if they push their dmg to even 75% potential all hell breaks loose with agro. It never used to be like this. Nuke-crazy mages and over-zealous scouts could always pull agro, but now even those holding back often do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the options are either the group reigns in its damage alot or kills reasonably fast making the guards life hell. Both of these suck IMO.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sadly that goes for all fighters. While it can be very random for us over others. Meaning Resists effect us the most. Brawlers Zerker high dps is there fall back amends is paladins fall back. Even maddening defense procs can be resisted. I personally like the randomness and challenge i cant say what it is like for every fighter. I think dps should be able to maintain 75% dps safely tho with a fighter using max taunt ability. However I know that they dont want things trivial. So it is difficult in extreme situations and more perfect in right situations. For example most of the time a mt group can have a slack spot. For a guardian this is when you add a coercer or asssisnt to mt group. The hate transfer from assassin is best. If he goes all out dps no one will peel your aggro period. Add a troubador to a dps group to reduce there hate by 41%+ and you wont have alot of problems. </P> <P>They developed aggro extremes around raids IMO so groups suffer more for it aggro wise but the quickness groups can kill mobs i dont see it as a ultimate problem just people needing to learn there control which alot have but alot havnt. So it is a here and there thing. It isnt that dps cant use all its skills it is that it cant chain there skills have to be more cautious. It more like eqlive aggro early on when procs where so rare and you couldnt augment and taunt never worked. Wizards couldnt just go all out had to pace themselves. So over all i think it is more fun in a way but a headache as well. I wonder if aggro would still be hard even if they took resists out. I imagine it would tho be notciable difference but still challenging.</P>

[Raahl]

<P>If they set the recast timer on resisted taunts to 0, I would think this would help a lot. </P> <P>But basically resisted taunts from Maddening Defense, would be lost.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Danter]

<P>I think the whole root of our aggro problem is that MD sucks.</P> <P>In half the groups you're in the mobs are even dead or stunned so they don't even really hit you that much.  If you launch Shield Bash right away and then Retaliate, that's like 10s where the mob is not attacking.  When you combine that with a Brawler's knockdowns or a Mage's stuns, the mob barely gets a chance to even hit you.</P> <P>We need more DPS or a revamp to MD where it's made to proc on each hit like the Monk's Advance line so we can generate hit early into the fight with CAs and sustain it with our taunts.</P>

[MrDiz]

Two days ago I was off tank for Lich. My basic task was to pull aggro from the main tank on ALL the summoned elementals and pull them away from the main group.I managed to get one of them. It took me about 30 secsonds because thats how long it took me to get desperate and use reinforce.Keeping aggro is not hard, getting it seems bloody impossible.After we wiped the 57 sk took the job of off tank instead of my 60 guardian, and thankfully I went back to being main healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ziffna]

Well all this talk about tanks not being able to effectivly taunt yellow+ mobs makes me feel really good about the Seal line for warlocks concidering it's sole purpose is to improve casters ablity to hit yellow+ mobs.  Makes alot of sence to me as a warlock sure i can hit red con mobs a decent % of the time but if the tanks are unable to ever land a taunt on even an orange con mob what is the point of this ablity other then to kill the warlock. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I feel for the tanks as well having a 52 guardian personally i wish the revamp never happened or at least that issuses were being addressed sooner rather then latter with classes.

[SeattleSeven]

<span><blockquote><hr> <p> I bet a brawler could nick aggro from you even without using taunts.  Now that would be playing his class badly , but i (as my monk) can get aggro from a guard without even using any attacks other than auto attack. (they didn't use HTL)  rare event(this happened once all night  , but just showing the extremes here.</p> <p>And if i spam my attacks (not the way to play a non MT brawler , but was just a fun experiment)  i got aggro everytime.</p> <p>If i tanked the encounter , i would hold aggro everytime without ever hitting a taunt.  The dps output of a monk is so nice , that if you just spamm as much damage as you can , then the hate generated is too much for anyone to pull aggro away.</p> <div> </div> <div>Now this is all with low level Chars (27th) , so it be interesting to hear how a 60th guard / monk got on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div>NB before anyone asks , no i do not have the aggro generating stance up , as it is a 28th spell , so i do not have it yet <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>This only leads to further disparity in single-mob aggro as the characters upgrade.  As a Guardian, I adept III'd, Master I'd, or chose a Master II as a taunt first at every opportunity, while a lot of Bruisers / Monks choose their high damage attack.  At 60th I now I have an arsenal of fairly impotent and resistable taunts compared to that bruiser's arsenal of further increased dps and single-target aggro. Kruck SlashRude 60 Guardian Blackburrow</span><div></div>

[Wasuna]

<P>I don't think our shiled bash has a memory blur component. I read the description several times this weekend and it only bashes, stunns and blurs the vision of the enemy which I expect is only helful in a duel.</P> <P>Please let me know if I'm missing something.</P>

[blueduckie]

blrring vision amplifies taunts. Dont know exactly what it does but it is like blurring its hate. When i use it and pump a taunt after aggro back immediatly 95% of the time.  1-2 taunts is all it ever takes or a big hit. Dont know exactly what it does but snaps aggro back.

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR>Two days ago I was off tank for Lich. My basic task was to pull aggro from the main tank on ALL the summoned elementals and pull them away from the main group.<BR><BR>I managed to get one of them. It took me about 30 secsonds because thats how long it took me to get desperate and use reinforce.<BR><BR>Keeping aggro is not hard, getting it seems bloody impossible.<BR><BR>After we wiped the 57 sk took the job of off tank instead of my 60 guardian, and thankfully I went back to being main healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What we do for lich is one MT, Paly, amends on me (Warlock) while in MT group, MT tanks all of it. Chanter charms the elementals when they spawn, Named AE kills off Elementals like fast, /wink. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats just one way )</DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I think both warrior classes should get a significant boost in aggro. ATM both of us have to waste 95% of our power to hold aggro on a DPS who uses 10% power</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>