My view

[Venom]

<DIV>Honestly, I don't see most of what's wrong with them right now.  Even the arguement on taunt resisting is basically invalid.  Do I like my taunts being resisted throwing my aggro management to poo?  No, I don't, but realistically, taunts should be somewhat resistable.  Someone taunts you in real life, you have a chance to resist it based on your attitude.  Sometimes you'll want to destroy that person, other times you'll just laugh at them and move on.  Why should a game be an exception?  Though I'm also not high end on any class either.  I take my time and enjoy all perspectives of the game.  The only thing that sickens me about Guardians right now is players themselves.  Some of them simply refuse to utilize a shield for any situation.  I remember grouping with one saying that when she hits Guardian she is going to dual wield skullcrushers.  Ok, maybe that's fine for soloing, though I prefer a big beefy two hander for soloing, though you will never see me without a shield when main tanking.  If you are a Guardian and refuse to use a shield for main tanking, you are wrong.  If you want dps as a warrior, you'd better go Berserker, because Guardian is by no means dps, sure we have some... mediocre damaging abilities, but for main tanking you need a shield.. shield=stuns with the shield bashing line.. shield=BLOCKING and that=you, your healer, and your paper wearing finger wagglers will live longer... wow what a concept right.  If you want high dps, this archetype really isn't for you, go scout or mage please.  Save us people who do enjoy true tanking the extra embarrasment.  What really gets me is when they complain that the class sucks because of the lack of dps, or even tanking ability... well guess what if you aren't using a shield, the tanking ability is on you.  Your class is only as good as you play it, remember that well.  There is no best anything.. feel free to join the bandwagons on 'what is best' but when you get clobbered because you don't know how to use your arsenal for the group, please save your degradation of the class for your personal diary.  We have plenty enough of that in all class boards to go around.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can also say I'm not happy about people giving up on their class or even the game completely because of specific changes to the class or another class that helps them out.  Have we really forgotten that this is Everquest and Sony here?  And have we forgotten or just do not know the amount of work that has to be put into changes?  The amount of coding and mathematics that go into games?  Come on people, if you really think it takes only a few hours to compile all the changes and the like, do feel free to put yourself in their shoes for a while and see if you can even catch on to anything that goes with the work.  Sure, maybe it does take things a bit longer than YOU or I think they should.  But hey, if you like your class that much you should be able to wait for the good things to come.  Put the toon down for a while and make an alt if you have to, you have 6 character slots to play with just on a basic subscription.  Hell, I put my necro down for a bit because of the pet/mob dance of death bug.    This by all means is NOT an I love SoE post, I'm simply asking people to be reasonable when saying things take too long and whine that they got nerfed.  Don't bother telling me that you are some genius computer programmer that knows about it either because for one, no one really cares nor is impressed, and two no one will believe you anyways.  In a world where we watch midget wrestling on tv, why make such a big deal out of little things like a game.  We're at war in Iraq for what I think is an illegitimate reason, but my pu55y hurting because my class doesn't work the way I think it should is more important.  :smileymad: Riiight folks.  I really appreciate what Raahl tried to do in his post, it was constructive and productive... but the kiddie posts really have to go.  Guardians will get their due changes where they need, when they need it, and when they can be coded and implemented.   Wait for it and quit yer sniveling.  At least be constructive with your suggestions instead of being a raging preteen fan boy about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xathris Iksar 34 Necromancer 30 Sage Lucan D'Lere</DIV> <DIV>Xanis Iksar 20 Ranger 29 Armorer Lucan D'Lere</DIV> <DIV>Breish Kerra 20 Guardian 12 Outfitter Lucan D'Lere (Formerly 30 Guardian by another name)</DIV> <DIV>Setroxis Iksar 25 Monk 15 Tailor Lucan D'Lere</DIV> <DIV>Zerax Iksar 23 Coercer Lucan D'Lere</DIV> <DIV>Darsha Kerra 22 Brigand 15 Scholar Lucan D'Lere</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, I'm the same jerk you ignored on the chat server as well, poor me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"You suffer from your own satisfaction"</DIV><p>Message Edited by Venom47 on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:40 PM</span>

[Prufro]

Lol, you're a level 20 guardian.  How long have you been guardian? Not even one level. You will see the problems when you're not a noob anymore, right around level 50-51 when you have to fight oranges to keep your sanity while leveling, only to lose it because every taunt is resisted and whether or not you have a shield doesn't matter since the avoidance it gives still causes you to get hit every chance the mob gets. In other words, although i thought i'd never say it, level up newb. <div></div>

[Venom]

That's funny how you call me a noob when I've been around since release I do have a life and I don't play the game everday, I don't do any power leveling and a spend the majority of time helping out my guild mates.. Did you even read my entire post smart guy?  I clearly state something about the taunting issue.  I've taken a break from EQ 2 for a little bit to play Battlefield 2 and even had to take 6 months off due to PC problems.  these aren't the only characters that I've had by the way, I've had more than what my slots allow me to have.  I also read into a lot of things in the game including the lore, I've been playing Everquest since Dungeons of Norrath.  I know more about the game and the coding that you will probably ever hope to know.  So don't assume things and make yourself more the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] than you've already made yourself out to be in other posts little man.  See, now you've taken my post that had valid points in it into something rediculous that will probably be deleted or thrown in the glass house, bravo mission accomplished bud. <p>Message Edited by Venom47 on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:36 PM</span>

[Greyto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Venom47 wrote:<BR>That's funny how you call me a noob when I've been around since release, I do have a life and I don't play the game everday, I don't do any power leveling and a spend the majority of time helping out my guild mates..  I've taken a break from EQ 2 for a little bit to play Battlefield 2 and even had to take 6 months off due to PC problems.  these aren't the only characters that I've had by the way, I've had more than what my slots allow me to have.  I also read into a lot of things in the game including the lore, I've been playing Everquest since Dungeons of Norrath.  I know more about the game and the coding that you will probably ever hope to know.  So don't assume things and make yourself more the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] than you've already made yourself out to be in other posts little man.  See, now you've taken my post that had valid points in it into something rediculous that will probably be deleted or thrown in the glass house, bravo mission accomplished bud. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Come on man give us a break you're a level 20 guard? what did that take a week? you have posted twice? both telling guardians who have been playing since the game came out that we do not know what we are talking about?</P> <P>I Played EQ1 Well before DoN Please..... I retired a 65 warrior with over 300 AA in full elemental gear when GoD came out Time flagged when Time meant something. </P> <P>Please go start your flame war elsewhere people with a lot better skill then you have already passed through here.</P> <P> </P>

[blueduckie]

<P>Lvl 60 guardian here and I mostly agree.  Toon is pretty much same as before. Complain about we get rooted to use a instant refresh skill. We get basically 3 forms of rescue. Sentry Watch - Reinforcment - Rescue. Our mitigation surpasses all. Our avoidance isnt bad for a plate tank. If a mob melees have not seen another class out tank a guardian on it. See people complain about how it is impossible for them to tank this crap. This type of tank is so much better. When a guardian can tank everything. You spend so much time complaining and not just playing better. There are ways around taunt resists. Hell am told by guardians that raid everything that all they use is maddening confront protect and hold aggro on everything unless it mem blurs of course then they have to tank rotate aka terrorantula. So i dont know what all guardians complain about. Guardian fun lvl hasnt changed. Our dps can be fair with a good weapon. Guardians doing 300-350ish dps in dps mode which isnt bad.</P> <P>I really dont understand all the [Removed for Content] complaints til someone shows a monk or any class out tanking a guardian. Our protect lines are not uselss. Guardian Sphere is quite useful if used at right times. Guardian is fine. A few more tweaks perhaps but over all things are find. Why people play a game to want everything easy for them i dont understand. Taunt resists add flavor and challenge. Having to root yourself to pick a good spot and be able to quickly drop it if need to adds challenge and flavor. Other tanks have plenty of things that hurt them and i have not seen a single one out tank a guardian period. Is why devs arnt doing drastic changes althought changing wall of might was a huge increase for us. Guardian class is not as bad as many post. Hope those who rerolled monks enjoy your non MTin roles on any 60+ mob.</P>

[Ladicav]

<DIV>I'm not going to point out that you are level 20, because that is irrelevent. How you perform as a Guardian is the same as many Guardians higher in level do anyway. And those guys who pointed out that it's ok now Guardian Sphere has been changed or whatever, need to remember, this guy is level 20, the recent updates did absolutely NOTHING to help him. Does he have to wait until 45+ so he can look forwards to something?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OK, for arguments sake, your taunt gets resisted. Fine. What can you fall back on to get it back in a hurry? That caster is now getting snot beaten out of him, his health is going down fast, you have already used Rescue, so it's not an option right now. If you were a bruiser class you  generate massive DPS that quite often maintains agro of the mob on you, so much so it is quite difficult to need to taunt often anyway. If you were a crusader class, you have a whole range of spells that generate good amounts of hate, to maintain the agro of the mob on you. If you were a berseker, once again you have a good amount of DPS to make the mob notice you again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a guardian...you have neither the DPS, nor the spell generation. What can we pull out of our hats to have even a slim chance at saving the caster?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>See where this is going? We are touted to excel, not be average at, not even be good at, but to excel, that means better than all the other fighters, at agro generation and agro management, and currently we are so not even close to the best. On single target encounters we have to be probably the worst, and agro generation on multi mob encounters, I put us as about adequate, but even thats not really great is it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we cannot have the DPS of the other fighters nor have spell casting capabilities of the crusaders, to be able to excel, we need to have far greater reliable taunts, far more potent taunts and taunts that can be used in a more wide variety of situations, else...we don't really excel in this area compared to everyone else...do we?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Ladicav on <SPAN class=date_text>11-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:29 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Ladicav on <SPAN class=date_text>11-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:30 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Ladicav on <span class=date_text>11-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 AM</span>

[TunaBoo]

20 is totally revelant.. eh doesnt have the right skills taht a 50-60 guard does, nor can he fairly compare himself with even level zerks or monks. Its like being 12, buying a pinto, and saying its just as good as a porche. Well sure, you can't drive... so I doubt you would see  a difference. <div></div>

[Venom]

Being 20 now is totally irrelevant guys, I said I played a Guardian before, hell Guardian was the first class I ever got to 20 but I deleted him and went on to something different.  Mainly because at the time most of the players that were on Lucan D'Lere back then were totally fresh to Everquest and had no idea about their class and such.  I gave up Enchanting back then as well because no one knew how to group with them.  I still find people that don't understand their role and screw it up for the Enchanter.  I have no problem with new people really, everyone has to start somewhere, but back then some classes were about unplayable in groups because people didn't understand.  Most of what I said about the whining and such wasn't directed at everyone.  Some of you don't whine like many others do and you have valid points.  What I meant was the people coming on and saying "Oh this class sucks etc."  or "Oh you changed my class I'm cancelling my subscription."  I didn't come to flame I came to say that it is very annoying for those that come on her whining like a child.  If what I was saying doesn't apply to you then why reply to me saying I'm wrong for my opinion on it?  If you aren't one of the ones moaning like a baby, why does it bother you so much?  That's what I'm not understanding here.  Like I said originally, I don't have any high end characters, there's no point in racing up there, Everquest isn't going anywhere.  I've played almost every class.  I just can't take the healing classes.  I never said I can account for higher end characters, but honestly when I look at the skill sheets and the gear you get later, I don't see much of a difference with mobs later and earlier besides their level.  I commended Raahl on his posting because it was a great thing to see.  People actually actively contributing their ideas and such instead of flaming some other player or flaming sony for their changes.  If you don't like my opinion you don't need to read it or think about it.  Most people post their opinion to see if people agree or simply just to get their feelings on it out, not to have a lot of other people get on and say "oh you're a noob and have no idea what you are saying.."  or "No you're wrong, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]."  Be an adult about it or stop wasting the time to reply.

[Venom]

Btw Greytoon, level has nothing to do with the amount of skill.  Like it was said before even a lot of high levels have absolutely no skill in their class.  Why is that?  Power leveling, too many people think the numbers in their level or stats really make a lot of difference.  It's made to scale with your levels, sure you need the gear and you need to high skills but if you can't use your character properly, that level 60 with master spells doesn't mean anything.  Trust me, if I wanted to I could get all my characters up to that level probably with tradeskilling as well within a month.  It's not hard to level obviously or we wouldn't have the players at high end who play like poo.  You think I haven't seen them?  Or heard complaints from my guild mates about them?  Just because I'm not there doesn't mean I don't know anything.  I soak up a lot of knowledge pal, so again, don't assume because of my level I don't know what I'm talking about.  There's a lot more to this game than leveling up and claiming you know everything.  Furthermore, I never said taunt resists were good, but it sure makes things a bit more interesting and challenging.  If you want an easy game I hear WoW is pretty easy, but I wouldn't know because it never sparked my attention to it.  Same goes with you tunabash *Taunt resisted*  Claim all you want bud, but with a name like Tunabash you have no room for personal attacks.