Skill list for debate and developer suggestions

[Nemi]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Single Target Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Tranquil Vision (60) - Allows group friend to have a chance to use Monk's avoidance score to avoid an attack</FONT><BR><FONT color=#339900>(G)Unyielding Vigilance (60) - Allows group friend to have a chance to use Guardian's avoidance score to avoid an attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Sentry Watch (55) - Saves ally from deathblow and procs hate for Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Assuage (49) - Allows group friend to use Guardians avoidance and lowers hate generation on target</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Sentry (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Allows Guardian to protect ally</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Group Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Call of Defense (52) - Group defense buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Calm Tranquility (51) - Group haste buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Call to War (51) - Group offensive buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Return to Battle (47) - Group HP buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Maintained Self Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Everburning Blaze (60) - Self only melee autoattack haste, drains HPs<BR></FONT>(G)Plant (60) - Roots Guardian in place and increases trauma mitigation, reduces haste and damage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storming Palm (57) - Does small magical damage for 8 attacks</FONT><FONT color=#339900><BR>(G)Steely Conviction (56) - Buffs Guardians stamina</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Inner Calm (54) - Buffs strength and wisdowm</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Wall of Might (55) - Increases defense of Guardian and chance to root target attack Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Short Duration buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Tsunami (55) - Riposte all melee damage from front, parry from behind</FONT><BR>(G)Tower of Stone (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Negates damage for up to 3 times if > 10% HPs, damages shield when attack is blocked.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Skin like Mountain (54) - Increases slashing, piercing and crushing resistance</FONT><BR>(G)Reinforcement (52) - Increases hate position of Guardian for every enemy Guardian attacks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Boulder Stance (54) - Stuns monk and greatly increases trauma mitigation</FONT><BR>(G)Commanding Aura (54) - Group buff against slashing, piercing and crushing</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Outward Calm (52) - Wards non-physical sources of damage for short duration</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Taunts</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Infuriating Tranquility (59) - Single target hate, can be used while stifled or stunned</FONT><BR>(G)Confront (59) - Interrupts target and increases hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Goading Assault (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Deals melee damage to encounter and increases encounter hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storm Stance (56) - Single target, each attack grants chance to proc taunt</FONT><FONT color=#339900><BR>(G)Inflaming Defense (57) - Chance to proc hate on any enemy that damages Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Agitate Spirit (50) - Interrupts and increases hate on encounter</FONT><BR>(G)Protect (50) - Increases hate to encounter, can be used while stifled or stunned</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Single target attacks</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Frozen Palm (59) - Melee attack, drains HPs instead of power</FONT><BR>(G)Buffet (59) - Crushing damage and drains target of power</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Arctic Talon (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Cold damage, small stun</FONT><BR>(G)Overpower (57) - Melee attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Rumbling Wyrm (57) - Melee attack</FONT><BR>(G)Hew (56) - Slashing damage and reduces targets attack damage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Stalking Leopard (55) - Melee attack, knockdown and small stun</FONT><BR>(G)Staggering Rush (55) - Shield attack, knockdown and small stun</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Swooping Crane (53) - Crushing attack, knockdown</FONT><BR>(G)Quelling Strike (54) - Melee attack, staggers target</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Lunging Cobra (52) - Melee attack, decreases targets defense</FONT><BR>(G)Perfect Strike (54) - High precision attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Silent Palm (50) - Melee attack, stifles for short duration. Any damage has chance to break stifle</FONT><BR>(G)Relentless Charge (53) - Melee attack that debuffs targets offensive skills and Slashing DoT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Flying Dragon (50) - Heat damage</FONT><BR>(G)Unforgiving Strike (52) - Melee attack that increases hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Lunging Mongoose (47) - Flurry of attack, if attack misses all remaining automatically miss</FONT><BR>(G)Blast (50) - Crushing attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Diving Pheonix (47) - Slashing damage</FONT><BR>(G)Swamp (47) - Melee attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> AoE attacks</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storming Hydra (49) - Deals magic damage to all nearby enemies</FONT><BR>(G)Tremor (49) - Crushing damage and knocks down enemies</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Stances</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Coiling Serpent (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Grants defensive increases + mental mitigation<BR></FONT>(G)Steadfast Stance (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Grants defensive increases + heat mitigation</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Black Widow (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Combine offensive and defensive stance</FONT><BR>(G)Desperate Charge (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Offensive stance</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Halcyon Blessing (49) - Offensive stance</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><U><STRONG> Utility</STRONG></U></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Fall of the Phoenix (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Group FD</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Will of the Sky (55) - Removes hostile mental, noxious and elemental effects</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Heal (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Heals percentage of targets HPs</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>-------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Reading the skill lists, they all seem good ideas and perhaps would focus the Guardians to ask for specific improvements to skills they feel aren't working.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I offer this for better informed debate amongst Guardians and help them focus on getting specific points for the Developers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best of luck fellow tanks (holds out olive branch)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I did notice when preparing this was the Guardian skill Reinforcement at level 52. It's description seems to imply it increases hate 'position' with each attack. If this is right then it's an excellent attack to save for when aggro is lost, if it doesn't work like this then it should. It's basically a mini rescue.</DIV></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Nemi on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:12 PM</span>

[JudyJudy]

<EM></EM> <DIV><EM>I just want to commend you, Nemi - for taking a stance of humility and attempting to offer a peaceful way to debate the differences of the classes.  I know from experience that it's not easy to do, especially when you've spent so much energy defending your argument.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Kudos to you.  :smileyhappy:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>P.S.  Don't forget our Wind Walk (Invisi) in the utilities sub category.</EM></DIV><p>Message Edited by JudyJudy on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:43 PM</span>

[Prufro]

You left off the fact that Tower of Stone also damages the shield when it procs. A skill like reinforcement would be great, if it actually worked.  Hate position arts are not working as intended. Ex: Rescue claims it will move the guardian up 3 hate positions.  In a group of 3 people this is guaranteed to put you on the top right?  Every time i've used it in a trio it has failed to focus the mob on me, even when used immediately after losing hate and following it by every taunt i have that's refreshed. It's nice to have a list such as this, but i simply wish guardians could be guardians instead of fighters that are compared to all other fighters in order to fix them.  All you seem to be doing is creating a thread you can refer to in your arguments. <div></div>

[Nemi]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>I'll amend the description of Tower of Stone, my apologies for missing it out.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Re: Rescue I haven't noticed this as of yet, anytime I've used Rescue it has worked for me but if it's true then it needs to be fixed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Believe me, I have no intention of creating any flame bait thread. This thread is purely to end the misconceptions and banding between Monks and Guardians. The thing that occurred to me mostly when preparing this list was the negatives Guardians seem to endure using their buffs.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Shield that gets desroyed = Pointless and needs to be removed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Reduced damage and slow effects when using defensive short buffs = Should be removed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Stances are fine to have negatives, buffs shouldn't as the whole point is they are BUFFS and are short duration. They should only be positives.</FONT></P> <p>Message Edited by Nemi on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:13 PM</span>

[Vulking]

While I commend you on your effort, sadly its too little too late(more directed at SoE than you).  There really is no one left to accept the olive branch other than flamers, trolls and fanbois. 

[Nemi]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>Well I don't think it's too late, otherwise I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of preparing the comparison =)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I believe Guardians could use some changes, I also believe the best way to get SoE to take notice is to be SPECIFIC. Simply stating your utility sucks, or is naff, or is pointless or comparing 1 CA to another of a bruiser/monk will not elicit any response from SoE.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>If Guardians want to get their class addressed then you have to look at that list above and decide what SPECIFICALLY should be altered to improve the class. These are the CAs SoE has given you and seems want to remain, so the best way to get changes is to make amendments to them. It also allows you to make a subjective judgement on areas of Guardians ability albeit with regard to a Monk. It would be useful to have a table comparing all classes but that would just be unwieldly.</FONT></P>

[JNewby]

<DIV>One thing I did notice when preparing this was the Guardian skill Reinforcement at level 52. It's description seems to imply it increases hate 'position' with each attack. If this is right then it's an excellent attack to save for when aggro is lost, if it doesn't work like this then it should. It's basically a mini rescue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yeah it is our only good legendary skill 1 and 2 it replaced a better spell before it got nerfed.... if our taunts worked like they shoudl we woudlnt need it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gungo]

Lockeye wrote they are looking into the positional tautn arts and they are not working as intended. But when they do fix them it is still not a gauranteed save since even rescue cna be resisted. But when they do fix them arts such as rescue and reinforcement will be hugely improved.

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Single Target Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Tranquil Vision (60) - Allows group friend to have a chance to use Monk's avoidance score to avoid an attack</FONT><BR><FONT color=#339900>(G)Unyielding Vigilance (60) - Allows group friend to have a chance to use Guardian's avoidance score to avoid an attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Sentry Watch (55) - Saves ally from deathblow and procs hate for Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Assuage (49) - Allows group friend to use Guardians avoidance and lowers hate generation on target</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Sentry (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Allows Guardian to protect ally</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Group Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Call of Defense (52) - Group defense buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Calm Tranquility (51) - Group haste buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Call to War (51) - Group offensive buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Return to Battle (47) - Group HP buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Maintained Self Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Everburning Blaze (60) - Self only melee autoattack haste, drains HPs<BR></FONT>(G)Plant (60) - Roots Guardian in place and increases trauma mitigation, reduces haste and damage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storming Palm (57) - Does small magical damage for 8 attacks</FONT><FONT color=#339900><BR>(G)Steely Conviction (56) - Buffs Guardians stamina</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Inner Calm (54) - Buffs strength and wisdowm</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Wall of Might (55) - Increases defense of Guardian and chance to root target attack Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Short Duration buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Tsunami (55) - Riposte all melee damage from front, parry from behind</FONT><BR>(G)Tower of Stone (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Negates damage for up to 3 times if > 10% HPs, damages shield when attack is blocked.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Skin like Mountain (54) - Increases slashing, piercing and crushing resistance</FONT><BR>(G)Reinforcement (52) - Increases hate position of Guardian for every enemy Guardian attacks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Boulder Stance (54) - Stuns monk and greatly increases trauma mitigation</FONT><BR>(G)Commanding Aura (54) - Group buff against slashing, piercing and crushing</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Outward Calm (52) - Wards non-physical sources of damage for short duration</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Taunts</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Infuriating Tranquility (59) - Single target hate, can be used while stifled or stunned</FONT><BR>(G)Confront (59) - Interrupts target and increases hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Goading Assault (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Deals melee damage to encounter and increases encounter hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storm Stance (56) - Single target, each attack grants chance to proc taunt</FONT><FONT color=#339900><BR>(G)Inflaming Defense (57) - Chance to proc hate on any enemy that damages Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Agitate Spirit (50) - Interrupts and increases hate on encounter</FONT><BR>(G)Protect (50) - Increases hate to encounter, can be used while stifled or stunned</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Single target attacks</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Frozen Palm (59) - Melee attack, drains HPs instead of power</FONT><BR>(G)Buffet (59) - Crushing damage and drains target of power</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Arctic Talon (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Cold damage, small stun</FONT><BR>(G)Overpower (57) - Melee attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Rumbling Wyrm (57) - Melee attack</FONT><BR>(G)Hew (56) - Slashing damage and reduces targets attack damage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Stalking Leopard (55) - Melee attack, knockdown and small stun</FONT><BR>(G)Staggering Rush (55) - Shield attack, knockdown and small stun</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Swooping Crane (53) - Crushing attack, knockdown</FONT><BR>(G)Quelling Strike (54) - Melee attack, staggers target</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Lunging Cobra (52) - Melee attack, decreases targets defense</FONT><BR>(G)Perfect Strike (54) - High precision attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Silent Palm (50) - Melee attack, stifles for short duration. Any damage has chance to break stifle</FONT><BR>(G)Relentless Charge (53) - Melee attack that debuffs targets offensive skills and Slashing DoT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Flying Dragon (50) - Heat damage</FONT><BR>(G)Unforgiving Strike (52) - Melee attack that increases hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Lunging Mongoose (47) - Flurry of attack, if attack misses all remaining automatically miss</FONT><BR>(G)Blast (50) - Crushing attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Diving Pheonix (47) - Slashing damage</FONT><BR>(G)Swamp (47) - Melee attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> AoE attacks</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storming Hydra (49) - Deals magic damage to all nearby enemies</FONT><BR>(G)Tremor (49) - Crushing damage and knocks down enemies</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Stances</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Coiling Serpent (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Grants defensive increases + mental mitigation<BR></FONT>(G)Steadfast Stance (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Grants defensive increases + heat mitigation</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Black Widow (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Combine offensive and defensive stance</FONT><BR>(G)Desperate Charge (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Offensive stance</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Halcyon Blessing (49) - Offensive stance</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><U><STRONG> Utility</STRONG></U></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Fall of the Phoenix (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Group FD</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Will of the Sky (55) - Removes hostile mental, noxious and elemental effects</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Heal (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Heals percentage of targets HPs</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>-------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Reading the skill lists, they all seem good ideas and perhaps would focus the Guardians to ask for specific improvements to skills they feel aren't working.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I offer this for better informed debate amongst Guardians and help them focus on getting specific points for the Developers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best of luck fellow tanks (holds out olive branch)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I did notice when preparing this was the Guardian skill Reinforcement at level 52. It's description seems to imply it increases hate 'position' with each attack. If this is right then it's an excellent attack to save for when aggro is lost, if it doesn't work like this then it should. It's basically a mini rescue.</DIV></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Nemi on <SPAN class=date_text>11-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:12 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#339900>(G)Unyielding Vigilance (60) - Allows group friend to have a chance to use Guardian's avoidance score to avoid an attack</FONT><BR></P> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Sentry Watch (55) - Saves ally from deathblow and procs hate for Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Assuage (49) - Allows group friend to use Guardians avoidance and lowers hate generation on target</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Sentry (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Allows Guardian to protect ally</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>assuage is awesome and vigilance is nice only cause it gives us + to parry other then that they are all useless dont work and if they did woudl still be useless.. dmg soaking spells are not useful... unelss they soak it from us.. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Group Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Call of Defense (52) - Group defense buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Call to War (51) - Group offensive buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Return to Battle (47) - Group HP buff</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>all these are ok cept call to war it gives some useeless offensive buff which does nothing(it doesnt raise dps it doesnt do enoguh to make anyone hit better it is really jsut pretty useless).. also they should all be turned to self  buffs and made more effective</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff> Maintained Self Buffs</FONT></U></STRONG> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Everburning Blaze (60) - Self only melee autoattack haste, drains HPs<BR></FONT>(G)Plant (60) - Roots Guardian in place and increases trauma mitigation, reduces haste and damage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storming Palm (57) - Does small magical damage for 8 attacks</FONT><FONT color=#339900><BR>(G)Steely Conviction (56) - Buffs Guardians stamina</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Inner Calm (54) - Buffs strength and wisdowm</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Wall of Might (55) - Increases defense of Guardian and chance to root target attack Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>big suprise guards dont get any maintained mit buffs.. wall of might and plant are noth 30 sec short term buffs... the stamina buff is perfect no change needed.. the 2 mit buffs 1 should be made perminant and the other shoudl do something else kinda like the monks or buiser immortality short term buff they get</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Short Duration buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Tsunami (55) - Riposte all melee damage from front, parry from behind</FONT><BR>(G)Tower of Stone (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Negates damage for up to 3 times if > 10% HPs, damages shield when attack is blocked.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>these 2 skills are nowhere close to equal... first off ours requires a tower shield so I cant even use it 2nd it only blocks 3 hits yours blocks all melee hits... I dont know the timer on that one... that being said the effect on its own merrits is fine.. except it will never get used since it destroys my shield down to 50% I have ot have a tower shield and its still worse then the monk buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Skin like Mountain (54) - Increases slashing, piercing and crushing resistance</FONT><BR>(G)Reinforcement (52) - Increases hate position of Guardian for every enemy Guardian attacks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>this skill is good.. but it used to be a tnak clone that u could keep casting... so I feel slighted by this nice taunt... since it used to be better</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Boulder Stance (54) - Stuns monk and greatly increases trauma mitigation</FONT><BR>(G)Commanding Aura (54) - Group buff against slashing, piercing and crushing</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>thisis az short term mit buff.. its ok justits on a 3 min recast and 30 sec duration... it shoudl be  permiment buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Outward Calm (52) - Wards non-physical sources of damage for short duration</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff>only complaint i have about taunts is they shouldnt be resisted</FONT></U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>CAS I am not worried about...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>out stances our fine our offensive one is useless btu I dont really care... it doesnt increase dps with its str buff.. our haste buff was much better... I am a bit upset that every class seemed ot get our defensive stance including scouts... that was a big guardian advantage IMO....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>and yeah we have no utility.. but who cares</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>so that is my honest assesment... we need to get rid of protect garbarge and give us something useful... fix our buffs to perm some of them... make our group buffs single buff and make them useful give us a better defensive stance since we had it to begin with</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV></DIV>

[MrDiz]

The skill lists arent the problem. Its the fact that most of them are not very useful in practice. If i pull 6 mobs and loose aggro before the pull is finished to the healer because AE taunt got resisted its pointless to be wasting valuable micro seconds casting guardian sphere and a spell that will save the healer on the killing blow. I cast rescue to get the biggest mob, i cast reinforce and hope I hit each mob enough before the healer is dead. Then we have 2 or 3 pulls with neither of these CAs left and perhaps 10 without rescue.And if its a raid? Forget it. You start mucking round hitting intervene and targetting the wizard mid raid the whole thing will wipe. Anyone gets aggro, they are dead and you just hope you get aggro once they do so the raid can res them.Our skill lines sound cool, but do little in reality. IF the trick to balancing Guardians is to make them the king of aggro and saving people who do pull aggro then they need to massivly rethink these abilities. Keeping aggro once we have it may be good for us, but getting it seems to be insanely hard.

[aislynn00]

<P>I have posted this before, but since it has been lost in the depths of other threads, I'll reiterate.</P> <DIV>All guardian taunts should be rendered 100% irresistible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our defensive stance should have a hate bonus component added to it, preferably 25% - 30% at Adept I.  That is to say, while the buff is up, any hate earned by the guardian, no matter the source, should be increased by aforementioned bonus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Inflaming Defense should have its root component removed but otherwise left as it is.</DIV> <P>Sentry Watch should kick in not when someone <EM>dies</EM> but whenever someone is <EM>hit</EM>.  Currently, given its short duration and trigger condition, it is so marginalized in its application that it isn't even worthy of being mentioned as a class feature.</P> <P>Sentry Watch should have its reactive hate component increased to something along the lines of 1000 hate with a 100% proc probability.  I am aware that the hate component was increased on the test server, but by how much, I don't know.</P> <DIV>Guardian Sphere should have a 100% chance of triggering, with combat art quality progressively lowering the amount of damage taken by the guardian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sentry and Vigilance should have moderate reactive hate procs added to them, probably around the same hate increase and chance of triggering as Inflaming Defense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote:<P>I have posted this before, but since it has been lost in the depths of other threads, I'll reiterate.</P> <DIV>All guardian taunts should be rendered 100% irresistible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our defensive stance should have a hate bonus component added to it, preferably 25% - 30% at Adept I.  That is to say, while the buff is up, any hate earned by the guardian, no matter the source, should be increased by aforementioned bonus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Inflaming Defense should have its root component removed but otherwise left as it is.</DIV> <P>Sentry Watch should kick in not when someone <EM>dies</EM> but whenever someone is <EM>hit</EM>.  Currently, given its short duration and trigger condition, it is so marginalized in its application that it isn't even worthy of being mentioned as a class feature.</P> <P>Sentry Watch should have its reactive hate component increased to something along the lines of 1000 hate with a 100% proc probability.  I am aware that the hate component was increased on the test server, but by how much, I don't know.</P> <DIV>Guardian Sphere should have a 100% chance of triggering, with combat art quality progressively lowering the amount of damage taken by the guardian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sentry and Vigilance should have moderate reactive hate procs added to them, probably around the same hate increase and chance of triggering as Inflaming Defense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>I like all of these ideas <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nemi]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>If you'll forgive a Monk offering suggestions I'll list mine below. This is based on reading the spell lines, not the nuance understanding of the arts.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Sentry Watch - If its not permanent then it should be, although it's easy enough to cast as if you lose aggro, by casting it on the MoB it should automatically target the person getting beat on.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Wall of Might - Rather than proccing root when hit, I think it would be better if this procced AoE/Encounter root every couple of seconds. This would help to hold mobs even when they are not hitting the Guardian and is more in line with the Guardian putting himself between his group mates and harm</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Plant - remove the debuff to damage and haste on the Guardian</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Inflaming Defense - Again rather than proccing hate when hit, if this had a chance to proc AoE hate say every 2 seconds, it would be better. This would help with the problem of Wards and only getting aggro when hit (whereby you already have aggro)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Tower of Stone - Remove the shield damage component. I think it should still have the shield requirement but any shield should do, not just Tower shields.</FONT></P>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Nemi wrote:<p><font color="#ffff00">If you'll forgive a Monk offering suggestions I'll list mine below. This is based on reading the spell lines, not the nuance understanding of the arts.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00"></font> </p><p><font color="#ffff00">Sentry Watch - If its not permanent then it should be, although it's easy enough to cast as if you lose aggro, by casting it on the MoB it should automatically target the person getting beat on.</font></p></blockquote>Problem is if you have 5 mobs and 1 turns to the caster you have to find which one to target him. Its usually easier to target the caster himself. Especially if (like me) you cant use a mouse because of injury). This means everyone using the tank to target is now no longer attacking.Plus saving the person from that one attack only helps if its a single mob that aggroed him, which is unlikely as if a guard looses aggro it tends to be on pull to a healer. So even if u save him from that one mob and the sentry watch gives enough hate to get that one on to you, you have 4 others hitting a man 1 hit from death.Your actually better off hitting AE attack tremor and hoping its enough until the timer on the taunt is ready again. You may loose the one person but hopefully you will get the aggo on to you after he dies.<blockquote><p><font color="#ffff00">Wall of Might - Rather than proccing root when hit, I think it would be better if this procced AoE/Encounter root every couple of seconds. This would help to hold mobs even when they are not hitting the Guardian and is more in line with the Guardian putting himself between his group mates and harm</font></p></blockquote>Interesting. They hate someone more but cant get past the guardian. Dangerously close to being a root spell, but if its short range the tank has to stay near the mobs and they will still keep beating on him. I may well like this one.<blockquote><p><font color="#ffff00">Plant - remove the debuff to damage and haste on the Guardian</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Inflaming Defense - Again rather than proccing hate when hit, if this had a chance to proc AoE hate say every 2 seconds, it would be better. This would help with the problem of Wards and only getting aggro when hit (whereby you already have aggro)</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Tower of Stone - Remove the shield damage component. I think it should still have the shield requirement but any shield should do, not just Tower shields.</font></p><hr></blockquote>Well i like it being tower shield only, and I really would like to see tower shields have something else that makes them better than other shields as a) that makes sense b) that was the inference and actuality at game start.The other points you mention I could take or leave. Im quite like the taunt that only fires when we get hit IF they give us something that can get us the hate to start with without the healer having let us get close to 10% health <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Another idea could be to make reinforce and rescue encounter affecting. I also quite like the idea of guardian sphere being 100% firing and procing hate (or reducing the hate position of the group member being hit).

[DmZB]

<HR> <DIV>Lockeye wrote they are looking into the positional tautn arts and they are not working as intended.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Can you point me to this post?  I haven't seen any information on this at all.</P>

[Timzil]

<P>I think we've been quite specific. We need the DPS gap between fighters to be closed. Simple. If that isn't going to happen and we are to remain as a defensive tank, (i.e. obsolete) then make us clearly the best at tanking. Again, simple.</P> <P>If SOE wants to fool around with our utility, that's fine, but who cares. Utility is 0.5 percent of game play. DPS is 65 percent and tanking is 34.5. The game is too dumbed down for anything else to matter.</P>

[Wasuna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timzilla wrote:<BR> <P>I think we've been quite specific. We need the DPS gap between fighters to be closed. Simple. If that isn't going to happen and we are to remain as a defensive tank, (i.e. obsolete) then make us clearly the best at tanking. Again, simple.</P> <P>If SOE wants to fool around with our utility, that's fine, but who cares. Utility is 0.5 percent of game play. DPS is 65 percent and tanking is 34.5. The game is too dumbed down for anything else to matter.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow! Short and simple. If we have significantly lower DPS then we must be better tanks. If we are equal tanks then we must be equal DPS.</P> <P>Utility is flavor and while you can provide huge amounts of that to balance the other two it better be head and shoulder above the usefulness of others to even begin to compensate for the DPS gap we have now.</P>

[Nemi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timzilla wrote:<BR> <P>I think we've been quite specific. We need the DPS gap between fighters to be closed. Simple. If that isn't going to happen and we are to remain as a defensive tank, (i.e. obsolete) then make us clearly the best at tanking. Again, simple.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Thats not specific, thats merely a wishlist. DPS maybe well be tweaked, it won't be equal. You won't be made best tank. So, not simple at all. You have Combat Arts available to you, until you can be specific about what is wrong with them and what can be done to improve them, SoE aint going to do anything. You have the potential to be great aggro magnets coupled with the ability to cover the [Removed for Content] of a group member if things go belly up. To me that sounds like a defensive fighter.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Work with the tools SoE gave you and suggest specific improvements.</FONT></P> <P>If SOE wants to fool around with our utility, that's fine, but who cares. Utility is 0.5 percent of game play. DPS is 65 percent and tanking is 34.5. The game is too dumbed down for anything else to matter.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I love those percentages, got anything else up your sleeve to help? Tanking is everything for a fighter and right now everyone can do that. Utility and DPS are secondary choices, important? Yes, but secondary. It seems if you got a DPS boost you'd consider Guardians balanced. Thats a simple proposition to make, why don't you create a thread and get other Guardians to support it. I'm sure SoE would leap at the chance to give you a DPS boost if that is all Guardians want.</FONT></P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Timzil]

<P>In other words, Nemi, you don't mind Guardians being fixed as long as it doesn't affect you. I understand completely. If I played an avoidance class I'd be pretty aprehensive about Guardian fixes too. I'd probably go as far as to offer all kinds of suggestions that improved guardians while keeping them more or less the same. I'd even smile when a guardian buffed me for the big fight.</P> <P>You can use your own numbers, but dead mobs don't need tanked. Killing the mob is easily greater than 50 percent of any encounter solution. DPS has always been the more important aspect in these games. Doesn't matter if the tank finishes the encounter with 3500 HP or 3 HP as long as the mob is dead. Giving the tanking aspect a 34.5 score was rather generous I think.</P> <P>Spudge, PH for a 60 Guardian (or whatever you'd like to rename this equal ability class)</P>

[Danter]

<DIV>Here's specifics:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DPS needs to be increased by 20% on all CAs or tack this on to our offensive stance.  (We would still be far behind Brawlers, SKs, and Zerks with this increase since our offensive stance sucks compared to theirs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ferocious Charge needs to be 10s recast again and have the DoT tick time cut in half to equate for the reduced duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MD needs to not lose power each time is goes off.  MD needs to proc through wards and proc when creatures cast damage spells.  MD also needs to be tweaked where it deals 50% of the damage you received on that blow as hate to the creature instead of the static 200 hate gain now.  On raids, MD is currently useless and is a large reason why we suck at holding aggro in raid situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cleave needs to do 3x the damage it does now in addition to the 20% DPS increase mentioned above or have a 20% chance to stifle on each tick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vindication needs to have its damage upped dramatically (I suggest a 400 - 500 DoT) and shouldn't drain power.  Vindication should also have it's stifle effect that it lost put back in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tower of Stone needs to lose the repair costs and not require a tower shield since fabled T6 Tower Shields are few and far between compared to the common Crimson Rock Targe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sentry needs to be removed and replaced with a minor self only ward (500 points) or a very low self only regen (Kind of like Beserkers get) so we have some miracle chance of survival if we're soloing and hit red.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our Taunts need a 20% power decrease so we aren't constantly oop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This would balance us with other fighters and still put us below Brawler, SK, and Zerk DPS.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Danterus on <span class=date_text>11-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:26 AM</span>

[Landiin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Single Target Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Tranquil Vision (60) - Allows group friend to have a chance to use Monk's avoidance score to avoid an attack</FONT><BR><FONT color=#339900>(G)Unyielding Vigilance (60) - Allows group friend to have a chance to use Guardian's avoidance score to avoid an attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>(G)Sentry Watch (55) - Saves ally from deathblow and procs hate for Guardian </FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>*Isn't Sentry Watch AE? When I use it, a green glow goes around ever group member. In any case I use it all the time when  while I wate for CA refresh. ( when agro is lost)</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=normalname><FONT color=#ff3300 size=2><STRONG>* Needs to cost lest power, I am always OOP while every one else is half power of close to full.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Maintained Self Buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Everburning Blaze (60) - Self only melee autoattack haste, drains HPs<BR></FONT>(G)Plant (60) - Roots Guardian in place and increases trauma mitigation, reduces haste and damage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* Whats the point of the new and 'improved' Plant? Oh it roots near by mobs nice.. Oh wait, we are rooted to so we can't taunt if OOR of CA or the mobs melee range.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>IMO I liked the old one way better then the new one becuase of the def bonus.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=normalname><FONT color=#ff3300 size=2><STRONG>* Needs to cost lest power, I am always OOP while every one else is half power of close to full.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT></DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Short Duration buffs</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Tsunami (55) - Riposte all melee damage from front, parry from behind</FONT><BR>(G)Tower of Stone (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Negates damage for up to 3 times if > 10% HPs, damages shield when attack is blocked.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300><STRONG>* Damage to our eqpt needs to be removed. Brusers's skill in this line does the exact same thing with out dmg their eqpt. Other then that its a nice CA.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Skin like Mountain (54) - Increases slashing, piercing and crushing resistance</FONT><BR>(G)Reinforcement (52) - Increases hate position of Guardian for every enemy Guardian attacks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* Needs to last long, recycle is ok but would like to see it shorter and OMG fix resists.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=normalname><FONT color=#ff3300 size=2><STRONG>* Needs to cost lest power, I am always OOP while every one else is half power of close to full.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Taunts</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Infuriating Tranquility (59) - Single target hate, can be used while stifled or stunned</FONT><BR>(G)Confront (59) - Interrupts target and increases hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* Last night in poets got resisted 4 times in a row.. agian FIX taunt resists</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storm Stance (56) - Single target, each attack grants chance to proc taunt</FONT><FONT color=#339900><BR>(G)Inflaming Defense (57) - Chance to proc hate on any enemy that damages Guardian</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* Needs to trigger through wards ( or tuant ever so often ) and it's resisted so much thats all I see on my screen is RESIST.. RESIST.. RESIST... floating over the encouter.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=normalname><FONT color=#ff3300 size=2><STRONG>* Needs to cost lest power, I am always OOP while every one else is half power of close to full.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Single target attacks</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Frozen Palm (59) - Melee attack, drains HPs instead of power</FONT><BR>(G)Buffet (59) - Crushing damage and drains target of power</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Arctic Talon (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Cold damage, small stun</FONT><BR>(G)Overpower (57) - Melee attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Rumbling Wyrm (57) - Melee attack</FONT><BR>(G)Hew (56) - Slashing damage and reduces targets attack damage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Stalking Leopard (55) - Melee attack, knockdown and small stun</FONT><BR>(G)Staggering Rush (55) - Shield attack, knockdown and small stun</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Swooping Crane (53) - Crushing attack, knockdown</FONT><BR>(G)Quelling Strike (54) - Melee attack, staggers target</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Lunging Cobra (52) - Melee attack, decreases targets defense</FONT><BR>(G)Perfect Strike (54) - High precision attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Silent Palm (50) - Melee attack, stifles for short duration. Any damage has chance to break stifle</FONT><BR>(G)Relentless Charge (53) - Melee attack that debuffs targets offensive skills and Slashing DoT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Flying Dragon (50) - Heat damage</FONT><BR>(G)Unforgiving Strike (52) - Melee attack that increases hate</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Lunging Mongoose (47) - Flurry of attack, if attack misses all remaining automatically miss</FONT><BR>(G)Blast (50) - Crushing attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Diving Pheonix (47) - Slashing damage</FONT><BR>(G)Swamp (47) - Melee attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* shorten the refresh timers.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=normalname><FONT color=#ff3300 size=2><STRONG>* Needs to cost lest power, I am always OOP while every one else is half power of close to full.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> AoE attacks</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Storming Hydra (49) - Deals magic damage to all nearby enemies</FONT><BR>(G)Tremor (49) - Crushing damage and knocks down enemies</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=normalname><FONT color=#ff3300 size=2><STRONG>* Needs to cost lest power, I am always OOP while every one else is half power of close to full.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U> Stances</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Coiling Serpent (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Grants defensive increases + mental mitigation<BR></FONT>(G)Steadfast Stance (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Grants defensive increases + heat mitigation</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* If it must root us, Make it so that we give a % of hate from group member to us, even its a low % make it worth us being rooted</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Black Widow (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Combine offensive and defensive stance</FONT><BR>(G)Desperate Charge (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Offensive stance</FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300><STRONG>* Give us more haste with it or make it shorten our HIT CA refresh timer.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><U><STRONG> Utility</STRONG></U></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(M)Fall of the Phoenix (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Group FD</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* This CA alone will save a group 99% of the time, where GS will not ever save the group alone. ( hug a monk )</FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Wasuna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timzilla wrote:<BR> <P>I think we've been quite specific. We need the DPS gap between fighters to be closed. Simple. If that isn't going to happen and we are to remain as a defensive tank, (i.e. obsolete) then make us clearly the best at tanking. Again, simple.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Thats not specific, thats merely a wishlist. DPS maybe well be tweaked, it won't be equal. You won't be made best tank. So, not simple at all. You have Combat Arts available to you, until you can be specific about what is wrong with them and what can be done to improve them, SoE aint going to do anything. You have the potential to be great aggro magnets coupled with the ability to cover the [Removed for Content] of a group member if things go belly up. To me that sounds like a defensive fighter.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Work with the tools SoE gave you and suggest specific improvements.</FONT></P> <P>If SOE wants to fool around with our utility, that's fine, but who cares. Utility is 0.5 percent of game play. DPS is 65 percent and tanking is 34.5. The game is too dumbed down for anything else to matter.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I love those percentages, got anything else up your sleeve to help? Tanking is everything for a fighter and right now everyone can do that. Utility and DPS are secondary choices, important? Yes, but secondary. It seems if you got a DPS boost you'd consider Guardians balanced. Thats a simple proposition to make, why don't you create a thread and get other Guardians to support it. I'm sure SoE would leap at the chance to give you a DPS boost if that is all Guardians want.</FONT></P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If we tank equal we must have equal DPS. Equal means just that, euqal. What is so hard to understand about that? Utility is nice but for any utility to even beging to compensate for the huge disparity in DPS that exists now it better be a doozie. Something like being unkillable for 3 minutes while our taunt and DPS are double but only usable once a day. All this discussion on what tiny little thing your willing to throw our way to make us equal in your eyes is just wasted words.<BR>

[Nemi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timzilla wrote:<BR> <P>In other words, Nemi, you don't mind Guardians being fixed as long as it doesn't affect you. I understand completely. If I played an avoidance class I'd be pretty aprehensive about Guardian fixes too. I'd probably go as far as to offer all kinds of suggestions that improved guardians while keeping them more or less the same. I'd even smile when a guardian buffed me for the big fight.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Look I'm not getting this thread derailed into a flame war. If you want fixes you need to play SoE's game. PROVE to them the skills you have are pointless or useless. State specific examples of what is wrong with them. I don't care really what fixes Guardians get because SoE have already proved they are willing to make all Fighters equal tanks, therefore I have faith that fixes to Guardians won't disrupt that. It may specialise us to specific mobs/raids but we'll all still tank equally.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Bruisers do more DPS than Monks who do more than Berserkers (except AoE) who do more than SKs who do more than Paladins who do more than Guardians. I totally agree the difference from top to bottom should only be about 50DPS at 60, its not that at the moment and it needs changing. Each class offers different GROUP utility though so SoE are not going to give equal DPS - Again tho, it should closer than it is now.</FONT></P> <P>You can use your own numbers, but dead mobs don't need tanked. Killing the mob is easily greater than 50 percent of any encounter solution. DPS has always been the more important aspect in these games. Doesn't matter if the tank finishes the encounter with 3500 HP or 3 HP as long as the mob is dead. Giving the tanking aspect a 34.5 score was rather generous I think.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>My point is your % serves no purpose other than weaken your argument. In full groups a tank's DPS is pretty insignificant overall although in duo/trios it matters MUCH more. Hence what I said above holds true, the DPS gap needs to be shorter.</FONT></P> <P>Spudge, PH for a 60 Guardian (or whatever you'd like to rename this equal ability class)</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Screamin' 1]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nemi wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Timzilla wrote:<p><font color="#ffff00">Work with the tools SoE gave you and suggest specific improvements.</font></p> </blockquote>Hmmm.  Now that new tools and reverse nerfs have been given to some tanks, and existing Guard tools taken away or seriously nerfed, <font color="#ff3300"><b>now</b></font> we're supposed to work with what we have? How very convenient. I would rather work with the tools I had for the first 9 months I played the game.</blockquote></span><span></span><div></div>

[Nemi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Screamin' 103 wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm.  Now that new tools and reverse nerfs have been given to some tanks, and existing Guard tools taken away or seriously nerfed, <FONT color=#ff3300><B>now</B></FONT> we're supposed to work with what we have? How very convenient. I would rather work with the tools I had for the first 9 months I played the game.</BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Well you are on to plums aren't you? They aren't going to roll the game back. Accept this and prove why Guardians suck is all I'm saying. Simply stating Guardians suck isn't going to do anything because SoE seem to believe you don't suck.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Therefore the logical thing required is for you to prove them wrong. Being specific will help you.<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN> <P> </P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Gungo]

<DIV> <DIV>DmZBaT wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> <DIV>Gungo wrote:</DIV> <DIV>Lockeye wrote they are looking into the positional tautn arts and they are not working as intended.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Can you point me to this post?  I haven't seen any information on this at all.</P> <P></P> <DIV>DmZBaT<BR></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________</DIV> <DIV>The Befuddle and Debuff Aggro changes are meant to work together (one without the other wouldn't have worked). It used to be that debuffs in general generated so much hate that Brigands had to accept the fact they were going to steal aggro if they were playing correctly. The best way to lose it was to let them take the hit to lose aggro and keep fighting, even an improved version of Self Preservation wouldn't be sufficient without the debuff aggro changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm looking into getting poisons changed to not expire upon death, and <FONT color=#ffff33>check into why hate position increases won't guarantee a move to the top of the hate list for LU17.</FONT></DIV> <P></P> <DIV>===========================<BR>Jared Sweatt<BR>EverQuest II Spells and Combat Designer</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>11-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:55 PM</span>

[Benfyn]

<P>Thanks for putting that list together. Anything constructive is greatly appreciated, at least by this guardian anyway. :smileywink:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landiin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>* Whats the point of the new and 'improved' Plant? Oh it roots near by mobs nice.. Oh wait, we are rooted to so we can't taunt if OOR of CA or the mobs melee range.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>IMO I liked the old one way better then the new one becuase of the def bonus.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=normalname><FONT color=#ff3300 size=2><STRONG>* Needs to cost lest power, I am always OOP while every one else is half power of close to full.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT></DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <P> </P> <P>Just wanted to offer up a theory on the use of the Plant/entrench line and how to use it effectively. I believe this is meant to work with the Maddening/Inflaming defense line and I hope this little write up can illustrate one way it can be used to increase our ability to control aggro.</P> <P>1) Guardian pull group of mobs with area taunt or by proximity.</P> <P>2) Guardian uses Inflaming Defense and takes a beating while building hate.</P> <P>3) Guardian uses Plant to root mobs within melee range of the guardian while the rest of the group, remaining out of melee range, focuses on the Guardians main target. </P> <P>Regardless of hate, the rooted mobs will attack the guardian as he is the only viable target within range and with the defense up it will build hate. When Plant runs out the guardian should be able to use Wall of Might to carry on in this fashion. A problem would arise when you factor in other melee classes that get to close before hate is sufficiently generated or if AOEs are used early in the fight (many tanks deal with the same issues of trigger happy dps-oriented group members). All in all, this is something that has to be done early in the fight and I believe needs to be communicated to the other group members so they know what you are doing. If you group with a regular crew then no problem but in a pickup group you will likely find yourself explaining your abilities and pull style. Again, if the fight is long enough you can always pop it off one more time to allow the AOE crowd to get to work.</P> <DIV>I'm a little more optimistic about the changes made today but only a little heh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krrrath, lvl 60 Guardian of Kithicor</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>EDIT: Just wanted to add in the definition from the patch notes for Entrench (the previous level version of Anchor and Plant CAs) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Entrench now roots all nearby enemies and debuffs their attack speed and DPS. The physical resist buff component was removed, and the recast time and duration of the ability were lowered.<BR></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Benfynyn on <span class=date_text>11-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:33 PM</span>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>If you'll forgive a Monk offering suggestions I'll list mine below. This is based on reading the spell lines, not the nuance understanding of the arts.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Sentry Watch - If its not permanent then it should be, although it's easy enough to cast as if you lose aggro, by casting it on the MoB it should automatically target the person getting beat on.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Wall of Might - Rather than proccing root when hit, I think it would be better if this procced AoE/Encounter root every couple of seconds. This would help to hold mobs even when they are not hitting the Guardian and is more in line with the Guardian putting himself between his group mates and harm</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Plant - remove the debuff to damage and haste on the Guardian</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Inflaming Defense - Again rather than proccing hate when hit, if this had a chance to proc AoE hate say every 2 seconds, it would be better. This would help with the problem of Wards and only getting aggro when hit (whereby you already have aggro)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Tower of Stone - Remove the shield damage component. I think it should still have the shield requirement but any shield should do, not just Tower shields.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>none of these suggestions really help maybe the tower shield one... they are jsut directed to us getting more hate... which shoudl be a given... these are just minor adjustments.. kind what sony just did on 16b</P> <P> </P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timzilla wrote:<BR> <P>I think we've been quite specific. We need the DPS gap between fighters to be closed. Simple. If that isn't going to happen and we are to remain as a defensive tank, (i.e. obsolete) then make us clearly the best at tanking. Again, simple.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Thats not specific, thats merely a wishlist. DPS maybe well be tweaked, it won't be equal. You won't be made best tank. So, not simple at all. You have Combat Arts available to you, until you can be specific about what is wrong with them and what can be done to improve them, SoE aint going to do anything. You have the potential to be great aggro magnets coupled with the ability to cover the [Removed for Content] of a group member if things go belly up. To me that sounds like a defensive fighter.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Work with the tools SoE gave you and suggest specific improvements.</FONT></P> <P>that is rediculous I already stated waht woudl make guardians good again... being AGGO MAGNETS is given.. all tanks hold aggro.. right now we are on the bottom of that list... but I dont want the guads special ability to be able to hold aggro.. again ALL TANKS DO THAT cept guards it seems... and no we cant cover a group if things go belly up we dont have a bullet proof spell.. we have useless dmg soaking spells that need to be removed... I never even considered those spells pre combat nerf... now that is being tauted as OUR class defining ability.. when it used to be TANKING.. and those things were jsut junk spells noone looked forward to getting..</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I love those percentages, got anything else up your sleeve to help? Tanking is everything for a fighter and right now everyone can do that. Utility and DPS are secondary choices, important? Yes, but secondary. It seems if you got a DPS boost you'd consider Guardians balanced. Thats a simple proposition to make, why don't you create a thread and get other Guardians to support it. I'm sure SoE would leap at the chance to give you a DPS boost if that is all Guardians want.</FONT></P> <P>no guards want to tank.. not have phonie abilitys like THE KING OF AGGRO or the GROUP SAVERS IF THINGS GO WRONG... cause those are both bogus we all know pallies and sks have no problem holding aggro along with aother tanks.. so BEING HTE KING is junk... that being said if we were the KING OF AGGRO who needs dmg soaking abilities that dont work anyhow??? itx all junk.. give us a better life buff a perminant MIT buff  and maybe avoidance.. but def a  better def buff.. then we will be equal</P> <P>while you may not agree with what I think guards shoudl get I dont think u can deny how lam being THE KING OF AGGRO is</P> <P><BR> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Screamin' 103 wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nemi wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm.  Now that new tools and reverse nerfs have been given to some tanks, and existing Guard tools taken away or seriously nerfed, <FONT color=#ff3300><B>now</B></FONT> we're supposed to work with what we have? How very convenient. I would rather work with the tools I had for the first 9 months I played the game.</BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Well you are on to plums aren't you? They aren't going to roll the game back. Accept this and prove why Guardians suck is all I'm saying. Simply stating Guardians suck isn't going to do anything because SoE seem to believe you don't suck.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Therefore the logical thing required is for you to prove them wrong. Being specific will help you.<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN> <P> </P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>there wers ome good suggestions provided including myown.. and u seems to pick up on the flames.. which are true... but either way that is why people "flame" noone responded to my suggetions.. I aonly get responses from flames</P> <P> </P>