Guardians and Zerkers -- looks balanced

[laxi26]

<DIV>Quick nota after playing last night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I went into Solusek solo, had my invis totem and was gonna pay Naggy a visit.  On the way down I come across a named giant blocking my way, turns out I also needed him for Legends of Lavastorm hq.  At this point I call out in OOC to see if anyone either needed him or was willing to help me clear him.  A small group from Phoenix Rising answered and after clearing the giant I decided to join them for some camping for the other named needed.  There was three of them, all level 54 (incl. myself), a zerker, templar and fury.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We went to camp the titans and looking at the zerker I saw that we had very similar gear, he was using his prismatic greatsword and I was using my dual cobalt falchiorns.  I don´t know how many ad III´s he had but I have a few.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I have been reading the threads here and frankly getting angry with being nerfed after lu13 because of what has been said here but I actually found out that because we just took turns tanking, I always held agro when I pulled and half the time he pulled I took agro off him using only my attacks, no taunting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also noticed that blast ad III now does more dmg than it used to, a change I had not noticed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This being said I´m happy with the game after last night, I got some good perspective on my own and the only thing I´d like to see changed are our group buffs, whom I never use exept for the call of command.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I´d also like more variety in char appearances but I hear we´ll get some love on that front so I´m gonna stop coming here and keep having fun :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[TunaBoo]

You wouldn't notice how bad we suck till you get out a parser and skilled players ;P <div></div>

[Allowin]

<P>I took agro off him using only my attacks, no taunting.</P> <P> </P> <P>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P> </P> <P>[Removed for Content], i would love to see that. unless he wasnt using his def stance and his HTL buff, a guardian does NOT have enough dps to pull aggro from ANY tank. heck. we dont have enough dps to pull aggro from anybody, and dang sure not another tank</P> <P> </P> <P>i have a 54 guardian with all adept 3 or master 1 attacks/buffs/taunts and i will guarantee you will NOT pull aggro from anybody unless they want you to.</P>

[Danter]

<P>Compiled list of Guardian nerfs from LU 13 for the masses who are ignorant of game mechanics:</P> <P>Commanding Presence - Lost 1/3 of the crushing resistance it used to give.</P> <P>Call to Battle - Lost parry buff.</P> <P>Call of Protection - Not a direct nerf, but defense got nerfed big time so this skill was indirectly nerfed.</P> <P>Vengeful Strike - No +STA, No 5% DPS reduction on mob</P> <P>Ferocious Charge - Same damage, double the recast.  Lost interrupt effect.</P> <P>Retaliate - Half the damage and now damage is ranged, not static.</P> <P>Staggering Slam - Lost DPS reduction on mob</P> <P>Cleave - Does the damage now that Wound did at level 25.  Small power drain gone.</P> <P>Overwhelm - Slashing debuff is gone</P> <P>Desperate Rush - 43% haste is gone.  Now gives +STR which is equal to about a +5-7% DPS increase.</P> <P>Taunting Assault - Casting time doubled.</P> <P>Deafen - Power drain gone.  Attack speed debuff gone.</P> <P>Vindication - Mental buff gone.  Lost interrupt effect.  Power drain is meaningless now.</P> <P>Tremor - 3s AoE stun gone.</P> <P>Blast - Double the damage, but double the recast.</P> <P>Protect - Interrupt gone.  AoE DPS debuff gone.</P> <P>Slam - No longer on a separate timer.</P> <P> </P> <P>We also lost Braksan's +250 to crushing and 350 HP and Slate's Invigorating Threat which was on a different timer and +mitigation and mob DPS debuff.</P> <P>Everything not listed was either left alone or does the same thing it did previously.</P> <P>To say Guardians got nerfed is an understatement, we got absolutely killed.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Danterus on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:38 AM</span>

[Vulking]

<P>Nice list you missed one big nerf </P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#6699ff>ANCHOR= nerfed into suckydom, use to be a pull tool with a snare/slow to the mob. Now it snares you.</FONT></STRONG></P>

[Danter]

<P>Anchor wasn't really nerfed, it was just changed.</P> <P>A lot of people used it to pull but I bet there were other Guards who didn't use it at all and stuck with a bow.  I'd personally like the old Anchor back, but I'm sure there are others out there that like the newer version better.</P>

[Vulking]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>_____________</DIV> <DIV>Danterus wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anchor wasn't really nerfed, it was just changed</DIV> <DIV>_____________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't see how anyone can like it more than the old version.  It went from a <FONT color=#66cc00>nice way to pull a mob, (without having to switch to a bow), + a slow to the mob</FONT><STRONG> to</STRONG> <FONT color=#ff0000>a minor 30 sec buff to you + it roots you.   </FONT><FONT color=#6699ff><STRONG>So this CA went from  2 positives to 1positive and 1negative.  </STRONG></FONT>In my book thats a nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see no reason for it to have a root component when two of our other CA lines have root as part of them.  The only reason i can see that they added a root to it is that the title of the CA (anchor) sounded like it should have a root component.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. And lest we forget, I believe  the snare was unresistable, so really it was <FONT color=#6699ff><STRONG>3 positives</STRONG></FONT>. In addition, the old version had more versatility, in its use.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Hammarus on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

[Veshtan]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <P>Compiled list of Guardian nerfs from LU 13 for the masses who are ignorant of game mechanics:</P> <P>Commanding Presence - Lost 1/3 of the crushing resistance it used to give.</P> <P>Call to Battle - Lost parry buff.</P> <P>Call of Protection - Not a direct nerf, but defense got nerfed big time so this skill was indirectly nerfed.</P> <P>Vengeful Strike - No +STA, No 5% DPS reduction on mob</P> <P>Ferocious Charge - Same damage, double the recast.  Lost interrupt effect.</P> <P>Retaliate - Half the damage and now damage is ranged, not static.</P> <P>Staggering Slam - Lost DPS reduction on mob</P> <P>Cleave - Does the damage now that Wound did at level 25.  Small power drain gone.</P> <P>Overwhelm - Slashing debuff is gone</P> <P>Desperate Rush - 43% haste is gone.  Now gives +STR which is equal to about a +5-7% DPS increase.</P> <P>Taunting Assault - Casting time doubled.</P> <P>Deafen - Power drain gone.  Attack speed debuff gone.</P> <P>Vindication - Mental buff gone.  Lost interrupt effect.  Power drain is meaningless now.</P> <P>Tremor - 3s AoE stun gone.</P> <P>Blast - Double the damage, but double the recast.</P> <P>Protect - Interrupt gone.  AoE DPS debuff gone.</P> <P>Slam - No longer on a separate timer.</P> <P> </P> <P>We also lost Braksan's +250 to crushing and 350 HP and Slate's Invigorating Threat which was on a different timer and +mitigation and mob DPS debuff.</P> <P>Everything not listed was either left alone or does the same thing it did previously.</P> <P>To say Guardians got nerfed is an understatement, we got absolutely killed.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Danterus on <SPAN class=date_text>11-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:38 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I knew we had lost some debuffs off our attack arts, but i didn't realize it was THIS many.  And everyone wonders why we were and are so [Removed for Content] off.  Just take a look at that list and how long it is.  ANYONE would be mad after having that done to them.   Especially when our DPS sucks so bad. We NEED those debuffs to survive and be a viable off-tank group member.  For some reason SOE just doesn't seem to see this and it's irritating to say the least.  I don't know why they took them to begin with.  They were supposed to be balancing tanking, what does any of our combat art debuffs have to do with tanking?  They evened us up with brawlers so they could tank as well as us then shot the balance to hell by remove a bunch of other things from us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh well, such is life of an EQ2 Guardian.</DIV>

[laxi26]

TunaBoo - like I said using no taunts this was just casual playing, don´t presume you´re a better player than others, this is a game and doesn´t take much skill to play.  Spend more time playing for fun and less on parsers and you´ll have more fun - guaranteed :smileywink:

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>_____________</DIV> <DIV>Danterus wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anchor wasn't really nerfed, it was just changed</DIV> <DIV>_____________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't see how anyone can like it more than the old version.  It went from a <FONT color=#66cc00>nice way to pull a mob, (without having to switch to a bow), + a slow to the mob</FONT><STRONG> to</STRONG> <FONT color=#ff0000>a minor 30 sec buff to you + it roots you.   </FONT><FONT color=#6699ff><STRONG>So this CA went from  2 positives to 1positive and 1negative.  </STRONG></FONT>In my book thats a nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see no reason for it to have a root component when two of our other CA lines have root as part of them.  The only reason i can see that they added a root to it is that the title of the CA (anchor) sounded like it should have a root component.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. And lest we forget, I believe  the snare was unresistable, so really it was <FONT color=#6699ff><STRONG>3 positives</STRONG></FONT>. In addition, the old version had more versatility, in its use.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Hammarus on <SPAN class=date_text>11-08-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:21 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>the snare was resitable, and could break early...  as it is in its current form (LU13-15) its much more useful for keeping me alive...  plant adept3 is ~800 mit...  so i'm rooted (i already was), and my dps goes down some (wet noodle dps drops to limp noodle)...</P> <P>with LU16 its getting changed to something that on paper looks really useless with the root (like it'll work on epics)...  mitigation is good, a duel root is bad =/</P> <P>Wabit</P>

[Wasuna]

<P>Tower Shield effectiveness was reduced to the same level as Kite Shields.</P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR> <P>I took agro off him using only my attacks, no taunting.</P> <P> </P> <P>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P> </P> <P>[Removed for Content], i would love to see that. unless he wasnt using his def stance and his HTL buff, a guardian does NOT have enough dps to pull aggro from ANY tank. heck. we dont have enough dps to pull aggro from anybody, and dang sure not another tank</P> <P> </P> <P>i have a 54 guardian with all adept 3 or master 1 attacks/buffs/taunts and i will guarantee you will NOT pull aggro from anybody unless they want you to.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>How would being in def stance help him keep aggro?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a berserker with all adept III taunts and HTL and 1 Master II i have to be in off stance in order to keep aggro.</DIV>

[Screamin' 1]

<span><blockquote><hr>Poochymama p wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Allowin wrote: <div></div> <p>I took agro off him using only my attacks, no taunting.</p> <p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p> <p>[Removed for Content], i would love to see that. unless he wasnt using his def stance and his HTL buff, a guardian does NOT have enough dps to pull aggro from ANY tank. heck. we dont have enough dps to pull aggro from anybody, and dang sure not another tank</p> <p>i have a 54 guardian with all adept 3 or master 1 attacks/buffs/taunts and i will guarantee you will NOT pull aggro from anybody unless they want you to.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>How would being in def stance help him keep aggro?</div> <div> </div> <div>As a berserker with all adept III taunts and HTL and 1 Master II i have to be in off stance in order to keep aggro.</div><hr></blockquote>That's what he said. "Unless he<b> wasn't</b> using def". stance....</span><div></div>

[Screamin' 1]

<span><blockquote><hr>laxi2610 wrote:<div>Quick nota after playing last night.</div> <div> </div><div> </div> <div>I also noticed that blast ad III now does more dmg than it used to, a change I had not noticed.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Funny, I have played this game almost a year, and I only just recently noticed that the damage listed under the CA descriptions  is not the base damage, but is adjusted for the examiners current STR. Even more funny, I am admitting this publically! Since I recently became enlightened, it gave me the thought that maybe you simply had someone throw a good STR buff on you or were in offensive vs. defensive stance, and saw the increased damage as a result of more STR. Of course, I hope I am wrong, and that the damage is really better, because I am about to acquire Adept III blast and I'll take anything I can get <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>. </span><div></div>

[Drulak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> laxi2610 wrote:<BR>TunaBoo - like I said using no taunts this was just casual playing, don´t presume you´re a better player than others, this is a game and doesn´t take much skill to play.  Spend more time playing for fun and less on parsers and you´ll have more fun - guaranteed :smileywink: <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Don't forget iax , that when a guard groups with a zerker , you get all their nice DPS buffs on you as well.</P> <P>Pre Lu13 , when grped with a zerker , it made my dps almost the same as that of a zerker (because of his buffs) , so if he was MTing , then yes i would have been able to pull aggro from him.  Cannot state that makes us equal though , best way is to see a zerker in a grp , then swap places with him , and see differences that way.</P> <P>If you wanna have a bit of fun , group with a monk and try and pull aggro off of him <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>