Please remove the root from maddening defense

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>Please remove the root from maddening defense</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this is a flawed choice to put root on maddening defense line of spells, if im fighting multiple encounters and one gets peeled from my hate range i get that dumb message your are too far away from target to taunt and have to undo maddening defense, walk 2 steps foward taunt the peel'd mob,, reapply maddening defense, and this is if im lucky to have enough power to do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>fun? i think not</DIV>

[Benfyn]

<DIV>I like the root for reasons mentioned in another thread (primarily it negates effect of Fear since you cannot flee to save your life even if you wanted to). What I'd like is if a) our taunting range was increased and b) this line of CA were to proc the encounter and not just the mob hitting you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krrrath, lvl 59 (and 67,2%) Guardian of Kithicor (almost there. stay on target)</DIV>

[EvilIguana9]

How about splitting the difference and changing it to a snare effect rather than a total root? <div></div>

[Benfyn]

<P>I wouldn't mind that IF the "Plant" line of CAs was a toggle instead of a 30 second buff. From my experience (specifcally in Scornfeathers) when fighting a mob that hits me with Fear I run completely out of control and end up aggroing a ton of other mobs. We're pretty good about clearing an area before taking on anything that might cast that but accidents happen. Now, first thing i do once the fight has started is root myself. No more fleeing. As hard as it is to keep aggro you should be fine on the secondary targets as long as your group is all on the main target that you are on.</P> <P> </P> <P>If anyone is going to use big hits they should do it together and let you know in advance so you can have all your taunts cycled up to spam the target. Having TS or Ventrilo is proving to be an asset in that department. Being rooted is a disadvantage, that I'll admit, but the current trade off is manageable at least. We still have a ton of things that are badly in need of fixing, I'd hate for them to change this and leave the rest.</P> <P> </P> <P>Krrrath lvl 59 Guardian of Kithicor (make friends with Reinforcement Ad3 too)</P>

[Kasar]

<span><blockquote><hr>Benfynyn wrote:<p>I wouldn't mind that IF the "Plant" line of CAs was a toggle instead of a 30 second buff. From my experience (specifcally in Scornfeathers) when fighting a mob that hits me with Fear I run completely out of control and end up aggroing a ton of other mobs. We're pretty good about clearing an area before taking on anything that might cast that but accidents happen. Now, first thing i do once the fight has started is root myself. No more fleeing. As hard as it is to keep aggro you should be fine on the secondary targets as long as your group is all on the main target that you are on.</p> <hr></blockquote> If the skill meant rooted, as in dug in, it would make sense that you couldn't just pick up and move.  If it also prevented knock-backs, that would also make sense and pose another real benefit, getting knocked halfway up a wall or hill to where the raid can't "see" the mob while still rooted is just dumb. Of course fixing pathing could also help that, but let's not get carried away.</span><div></div>

[Prufro]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kasar wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Benfynyn wrote:<p>I wouldn't mind that IF the "Plant" line of CAs was a toggle instead of a 30 second buff. From my experience (specifcally in Scornfeathers) when fighting a mob that hits me with Fear I run completely out of control and end up aggroing a ton of other mobs. We're pretty good about clearing an area before taking on anything that might cast that but accidents happen. Now, first thing i do once the fight has started is root myself. No more fleeing. As hard as it is to keep aggro you should be fine on the secondary targets as long as your group is all on the main target that you are on.</p> <hr></blockquote> If the skill meant rooted, as in dug in, it would make sense that you couldn't just pick up and move.  If it also prevented knock-backs, that would also make sense and pose another real benefit, getting knocked halfway up a wall or hill to where the raid can't "see" the mob while still rooted is just dumb. Of course fixing pathing could also help that, but let's not get carried away.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I bet no one would complain about the root aspect of our CAs is pathing was not so terrible.  Does anyone else notice that the mobs just seem to follow the walls, thus causing them to get stuck in them or go inside them? "Let's not get carried away" is exactly what it feels like when asking for something this fundamental and, imo, critical, to get fixed.  That's kind of sad.</span><div></div>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>i agree if root is there to stay at least let it be antiknock back, not really anti stun but antiknock back, we can at least have that right, something monks dont have, i think.</DIV>

[Hend]

<P>Challenging as it is, getting kicked around in all directions is one of the most entertaining features of the combat system. Eliminating it when using HTL would make life easier for a guardian, yes, but also less entertaining.</P> <P>I don't think it's such a big deal to press HTL to run to a new position and press it again to reactivate. At least it's something you can learn to master.</P> <P>Taunt resistance, especially on pull, is a much greater annoyance to me.</P> <DIV>Vork, 53 guardian</DIV>

[aislynn00]

<DIV>I believe both are very significant issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Resisted taunts and too low hate generation values on our taunts is the issue we are currently facing.  I say, give guardians 100% irresistible taunts and add 50% hate generation to all our taunts, including Inflaming Defense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Apropos Inflaming Defense, self-rooting, the serious downside to what is, effectively speaking, a buff we <EM>have</EM> to put up every fight, isn't balanced.  Why should we have to root ourselves simply in order to do our job?  Brawlers don't have to do any such thing, and they enjoy 360 degrees block and parry, meaning they don't really have to reposition themselves all the time in order to keep the mobs in the too-narrow frontal arc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the other hand, if the root were actually protecting against serious threats, such as knockback (think "Rognog"), then I might think otherwise.  But until that is the case, the root must go, and not simply in exchange for a snare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Finedo]

Leave the root effect for one if you get feared you are safe from it LEAVE IT BE <div></div>

[Tro]

Agree.. leave the root component.. atleast until they make it so fear/charm break the root.. I know its gonna happen.. I just know it..

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hendis wrote:<BR> <P>Challenging as it is, getting kicked around in all directions is one of the most entertaining features of the combat system. Eliminating it when using HTL would make life easier for a guardian, yes, but also less entertaining.</P> <P>I don't think it's such a big deal to press HTL to run to a new position and press it again to reactivate. At least it's something you can learn to master.</P> <P>Taunt resistance, especially on pull, is a much greater annoyance to me.</P> <DIV>Vork, 53 guardian</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree, retoggling MD is a minor annoyance at best, however how game breaking would it be to simply make KB break the root? I can see fear not breaking the root as it is a mental attack, however KB is a physical one. You are being launched through the air, shouldnt the very act of being sent airbourne break the root?

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>if you want to root yourself use anchor <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just in case u didnt realize theres two spells that root us.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ironmeow on <span class=date_text>11-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

[DanielAtchison]

but anchor is only for a short amount of time(30seconds i think) when i mob could fear you at anytime of the fight and the recast on anchor is 3mins? <div></div>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>which specific mobs are u guys refferring to that "fear"</DIV>

[Benfyn]

<P>Off the top of my head I can only think of "That Which Relentlessly Waits" which is the absurdly named snake in Scornfeathers. There are a few others but i'll need to rack my brain for the correct names and locations. There are a few that have that in their bag of tricks or at least something similar. When rooted, your camera angles all over the place outside of your control but you remain stationary. You'll know it when it happens to you and then probably repress the memory. Nothing worse than running through additional groups of mobs while the main target is free to devour your groupmates.</P> <P> </P> <P>Krrrath, lvl 60 Guardian of Kithicor</P>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ironmeow wrote:<BR> <DIV>if you want to root yourself use anchor <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just in case u didnt realize theres two spells that root us.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Ironmeow on <SPAN class=date_text>11-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:50 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes I think most Guards realize we have two root type CA's.. But like previously mentioned.. you have to recast it.. Why do that? MD is perma root until cancelled and so you get nice aggro generation and root all in one package.. Kinda nice actually and with recasting Anchor, you use more power that may be needed for additional taunts.. </P>

[Finedo]

some people should educate themselfs on there charator befor demanding something fixed that is usefull <div></div>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Finedorf wrote:<BR>some people should educate themselfs on there charator befor demanding something fixed that is usefull<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>And "some people" should take a look at the actual content in the game and see how frequently they are actually feared, and so, would benefit from the root effect on Inflaming Defense.  Having played EQ2 about a year now, I, for one, remember exactly two cases in which I have been feared: fighting some form of caster in the catacombs in Cazic Thule and tanking a certain undead snake in Scornfeather Roost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Likewise, "some people" should try counting the number of times they have lost aggro during a pull and how many times the same has happened because they had to switch off Inflaming Defense to reposition themselves during a fight.  Now those same people should consider how much the 1 - 2 seconds it takes to switch off Inflaming Defense matters when having to grab aggro on a high-DPS add or recover it from the mage 30 feet away during a raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point being, the disadvantages of the root component outweigh the benefits many times over.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>exactly, There really arent that many mobs that fear,  i dont want to be rooted 95% of the game just cause i can resist fear which is like 5% of the mobs in the game. Bieng able to grab the mob after a peel is far mor important especially when that mob needs to be turned and what not. I can live with a snare that is like 5% speed but not bieng able to move an inch? thats just annoying. And so far the root has not been usefull, how can you call bieng knocked down 10 feet down a tower and still rooted when you get to the floor, usefull, i might as well been feared down there.</DIV>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<P>I'm in agreement with the last two posters, being stationary during a rare fear does not even begin to outweigh the inability to move around during dozens of encounters every night.  If you've got somebody pulling everything to you that knows how to shed aggro, then sure, staying rooted is not such an insult.  But pulling and tanking, which is what I end up doing most of the time, involves a lot of repositioning especially in dungeons where half the mobs scamper around and end up inside walls or behind columns, and need to be finessed out into the open.  You can't do that and be constantly reaching up to click/unclick, click/unclick every couple of seconds.  It's too much excess hand work trying to do that and everything else.</P> <P> </P>

[Wabit]

<P>the funny thing is HtL has always been a root...  used to be 12 hr duration on it....  the devs thought it was too powerful and made it a shorter duration with a 30 sec recast...  now its back to a maintained efect...</P> <P>the only constant is the root...  its always been a good agro tool...  keep it the way it is...  but change the proc to irresistable and proc though wards...</P> <P>oh yea watch out for mobs that charm you...  nothing like killing you whole group cause you weren't rooted :smileyvery-happy:...</P> <P>Wabit</P>

[aislynn00]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> <P>the funny thing is HtL has always been a root...  used to be 12 hr duration on it....  the devs thought it was too powerful and made it a shorter duration with a 30 sec recast...  now its back to a maintained efect...</P> <P>the only constant is the root...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Indeed, the only constant is the root, because pre-LU13, we didn't have to cast HtL during normal XP groups; we held aggro just fine without it, to a large extent due to the hate generated by reactive heals.  Nowadays, however, we <EM>have</EM> to cast Inflaming Defense on virtually every pull; <EM>that</EM> is why the root effect has come to be seen by the vast majority of guardians (i.e., those who don't primarily raid) as such a major drawback.<BR> <DIV> </DIV>