How 'equal' is this?

[MrDiz]

A 56 guardian, 57 templar and 58 assassin trioing lvl 58 cyclops. Ten meters away a lvl 55 rager is soling them, killing 3 for our 2 consistently. I look at the name... its the same ranger I saw 5 days ago soloing a lvl 51 named triple up arrow heoric and she was lvl 51 at the time! Soloing white heroic nameds ... soloing yellow triple arrow heroics faster than a trio of pure tank, pure dps and pure healer ... who averaged 2 levels more than her! 4 levels in 5 days, soloing stuff i couldnt duo and can just trio.Im not posting this on the class balance or ranger board cos I dont want to seem like im asking for a nerf here. Some classes solo well i guess. But if some classes can solo better than small groups that are 2 lvls senior then I dont wanna here this balony about "equality of main role". Some classes solo well. Its not their 'main role' and its not in the 'VISION' but its a major bloody plus point tp picking a class.Now there are more fighters than 1 in 6 of the players. This means the main role for fighters isnt always, cannot always, be tanking. Sometimes its dps. And sometimes the poor schmuck ends up soloing. Not enough tank positions so it CANNOT be the main role of ALL fighters. Mathematic impossibility. So I not only want to DPS like a monk from now on, I also want to solo like a ranger! Can you have it in by next friday?

[Danter]

<DIV>Let's look at this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your group contains:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassain -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now, this is the worst trio in the game, bar none.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For xp groups, you have the worst tank, healer, and DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you add up the collective classes DPS, you'd get something like 110 + 50 + 280 = 440 DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you add the ranger's DPS up, you get 450 DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In conclusion, I'm not surprised at your results.</DIV>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote: <DIV>Let's look at this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your group contains:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassain -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now, this is the worst trio in the game, bar none.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For xp groups, you have the worst tank, healer, and DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you add up the collective classes DPS, you'd get something like 110 + 50 + 280 = 440 DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you add the ranger's DPS up, you get 450 DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In conclusion, I'm not surprised at your results.</DIV><hr></blockquote>But thats ok?? A 55 scout soloing better than a 3 lvl 57s trioing?

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>MrDizzi wrote:<blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote:<div></div> <div>Let's look at this...</div> <div> </div> <div>Your group contains:</div> <div> </div> <div>Guardian -> Gimped</div> <div> </div> <div>Templar -> Gimped</div> <div> </div> <div>Assassain -> Gimped</div> <div> </div> <div>Right now, this is the worst trio in the game, bar none.</div> <div> </div> <div>For xp groups, you have the worst tank, healer, and DPS.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you add up the collective classes DPS, you'd get something like 110 + 50 + 280 = 440 DPS.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you add the ranger's DPS up, you get 450 DPS.</div> <div> </div> <div>In conclusion, I'm not surprised at your results.</div><hr></blockquote>But thats ok?? A 55 scout soloing better than a 3 lvl 57s trioing?<hr></blockquote>Welcome to SOE's vision of balance.   And im sure somewhere somehow that Ranger thinks his class is gimped.</span><div></div>

[Raahl]

<DIV>Not that what the Ranger was doing was right, but why do we even care what they can do?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What we should care about is that Guardians need fixed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd be really interested in how the Ranger was doing it.  Cause I tried to take on a Blue ^^^ Squrrel/Rat in EL with my ranger and a Wizard friend and was dead in 3-4 hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps there is something going on with the storm of arrows (or whatever the level 55 skill is), that allows them to shoot arrows on the cyclops when in melee range. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How fast were the mobs dying? </DIV> <DIV>Was he standing toe to toe with it or kiting it?</DIV>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Raahl wrote: <DIV>Not that what the Ranger was doing was right, but why do we even care what they can do?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What we should care about is that Guardians need fixed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd be really interested in how the Ranger was doing it.  Cause I tried to take on a Blue ^^^ Squrrel/Rat in EL with my ranger and a Wizard friend and was dead in 3-4 hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps there is something going on with the storm of arrows (or whatever the level 55 skill is), that allows them to shoot arrows on the cyclops when in melee range. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How fast were the mobs dying? </DIV> <DIV>Was he standing toe to toe with it or kiting it?</DIV><hr></blockquote>She was kiting, I suppose by strict definition, but it was doing so fast it was barely worth calling it kiting. She would lay a trap, shoot the thing and it would drop dramatically in hp, run at her, she would keep shooting it. Usually it would get to her, get rooted (dont ask me how), then she would move to where it came from and shoot it until it died. I never saw her move more than onc per combat.Only other things I do know are she uses legendary lvl 20 stun posions, and she was very polite when she trained one on to us by mistake.Why do I focus on this? Cos the game is broken! It was bad enough when a single soloing monk could out kill a guardian/templar solo (as they could before mit boost). But now you got the quintessenial trio of pure tank, pure heal and pure dps being owned by a solo ranger 2 levels lower than them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Each one of us should own here because of the level difference. The three of us should be in a different league. Instead we are playing catchup.I always accepted a game has bugs and tweaks required, and I always hated people who said "we are paying to play a beta" just cos the griffons failed or something. But LU13 was such a radical change that its a new game. And that makes this the beta. And it beginning to show. The game is severely out of balance right now, and Sony are focussing on making manga pokemon ninja skins/model. yay us.

[Raahl]

<P>Ahh I think the trap has a chance to root, not sure though.</P> <P>I guess we would have to see what equipment/poisons she was using.    If a ranger can keep the mob at distance they will take it down quickly.    </P> <P>The bottom line is that some classes can solo heroic mob when they shouldn't be able to.  </P>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Raahl wrote:<p>Ahh I think the trap has a chance to root, not sure though.</p> <p>I guess we would have to see what equipment/poisons she was using.    If a ranger can keep the mob at distance they will take it down quickly.    </p> <p>The bottom line is that some classes can solo heroic mob when they shouldn't be able to.  </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> I accept that some classes will be better at soloing but what is described in this thread seems way out of whack.  A solo player 2 levels below the avg level of a group of 3 and the solo player has an easier time against the same heroic mobs as the group?  Either 3 seperate classes are extremely underpowerd and when put together dont get any better or one class is extremely overpowered...Either way its something that CANNOT be ignored and needs to be fixed. </span><div></div>

[Raahl]

<DIV>I agree that the 3 classes mentioned in the group are in need of some serious fixes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However If I ever get my ranger up to 55, I totally expect that I would not be able to do what that ranger did.  Simply because I'm a casual player and will not have the best equipment in game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony is running into the problem of balancing PvE.  Where a jigged out character can make an encounter trivial, but changing the class or the mob to make it not trivial could totally [Removed for Content] casual players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess that's what happens when you make equipment such a big factor in how well a class is.</DIV>

[Wabit]

<P>the difference is 1 working class > 3 broken classes...</P> <P>ranger = mage...  between the roots, snares and ranged dps ability...  they don't need to every get hit just root and burn...  its been like this for warlocks since the game came out...  now there are several classes that can take down ^^^ heroics even con or higher with relitive ease...</P> <P>but going by sony's logic as i see it...  the game is so unbalanced and broken we need to mess with the UI's (that were working fine before) every day to distract attention from how bad the normal things are...  and we get to write a long list of things that we did so it shows how much we're doing to improve the game...  then when ppl realize the UI installed are broken we can undo them and write another long list of things that we did for tommorrow...</P> <P>but i digress</P> <P>Wabit</P>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Raahl wrote:<DIV>I agree that the 3 classes mentioned in the group are in need of some serious fixes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However If I ever get my ranger up to 55, I totally expect that I would not be able to do what that ranger did.  Simply because I'm a casual player and will not have the best equipment in game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony is running into the problem of balancing PvE.  Where a jigged out character can make an encounter trivial, but changing the class or the mob to make it not trivial could totally [Removed for Content] casual players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess that's what happens when you make equipment such a big factor in how well a class is.</DIV><hr></blockquote> Her equipment was pretty poo actually. She used legendary poisons yeah, but lvl 20 ones. No fabled, little legendary. Nothing to write home about. The trio on the other hand were pretty much [Removed for Content] (someone has to explain to me why thats a good thing one day).

[laddich]

<P>In regard to OP:</P> <P> </P> <P>Nothing equal in this game. I just got very depressed from reading the Beserker forum. They top-5 DPS AND can be main raid tank. Oh man how Guardians suck compared to them. * bonks head on wall three times * . Now let me post on the Guardians who died thread :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>Don't go to the zerker forum bro's. Just don't .</P> <P> </P> <P>And I found the end of all Guardian trouble in this URL: <A href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/index.php" target=_blank>http://www.vanguardsoh.com/index.php</A></P> <p>Message Edited by laddich on <span class=date_text>11-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:16 AM</span>

[Minion]

<DIV>One thing is for sure... Vanguard will have a lot of tanks LOL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>90% of the guardians I talk to on forums and in game are leaving for Vanguard... (When it comes out)</DIV><p>Message Edited by MinionTA on <span class=date_text>11-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:32 PM</span>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Let's look at this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your group contains:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassain -> Gimped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now, this is the worst trio in the game, bar none.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For xp groups, you have the worst tank, healer, and DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you add up the collective classes DPS, you'd get something like 110 + 50 + 280 = 440 DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you add the ranger's DPS up, you get 450 DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In conclusion, I'm not surprised at your results.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This sounds very possible. Rangers are the best burst dps in the game atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But 450 DPS dont you think thats kinda weak. The rangers ive grouped with are in the 800-1k range</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <DIV>I agree that the 3 classes mentioned in the group are in need of some serious fixes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However If I ever get my ranger up to 55, I totally expect that I would not be able to do what that ranger did.  Simply because I'm a casual player and will not have the best equipment in game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony is running into the problem of balancing PvE.  Where a jigged out character can make an encounter trivial, but changing the class or the mob to make it not trivial could totally [Removed for Content] casual players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess that's what happens when you make equipment such a big factor in how well a class is.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Her equipment was pretty poo actually. She used legendary poisons yeah, but lvl 20 ones. No fabled, little legendary. Nothing to write home about. The trio on the other hand were pretty much [Removed for Content] (someone has to explain to me why thats a good thing one day).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What server was this and what was the rangers name?

[MrDiz]

Neriak. And the name was something beginning with Sen.... She had little pig tails if that helps?

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR>Neriak. And the name was something beginning with Sen.... She had little pig tails if that helps?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL probably 90% of the female characters has pig tails.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Raahl]

<DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>Senshala - Level 56 Wood Elf.  No stats on eq2players.com.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small><SPAN class=field_data_small>Senshi - Level 60 Halfling.   No stats either.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>

[MrDiz]

Its Senshala... and she dinged AGAIN! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I havnt dinged on a single char since she went from 51 to 56 ... omg i gotta get my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in gear.

[TunaBoo]

Rangers are the most overpowered class, vs 3 gimped classess. Pretty clear ;p <div></div>

[Drulak]

Monks can take down ^^^ heroics solo too , so its not just root and run classes that can do it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[EvilIguana9]

Kinda funny how one of the tenets of the combat change was that heroics were supposed to mean something other than "takes slightly longer to solo".  It seems that the only change regarding heroics was WHAT classes can solo them with ease.  I don't personally have a problem with soloing heroics.  I think that with enough gear or levels over a heroic you should be able to kill them, but it seems to me that soloing a mob 3-4 levels above you that by definition is intended for 3 or more people should not be possible.  Now I am a 52 paladin with 2 pieces of cobalt and lots of treasured armor, handcrafted jewelry, some legendary HQ items.  I can solo undead heroic+++ mobs that are at least 3 levels below me, but it takes all my mana, leaves my hp at less than 100, uses all my long recast abilities, and nets an insignificant amount of xp.  Basically I can do that once every 15 minutes at best.  I don't think that is too far off from where I should be.  After all these are heroic encounters, they are powerful magical beings and they are effectively a much higher level than they con.  SOE seems to have backpedalled from their original vision of heroics.  I personally think it is entirely possible to balance these things for every class, but it will take some work and a bit of creativity.  <div></div>

[Raahl]

<DIV>No class should be able to take out ^^^ heroics.  But I would hate to see what happened to guardians happen to rangers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony fixed some issues that made guardians overpowered by nerfing us into oblivion.   Now playing a guardian is not fun to play.  If Sony tries to fix rangers, I'd expect one more unhappy class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll come right out and say it.  I now play a Ranger.  He was my highest level character next to my guardian and was fun to play.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say fix guardians and leave the other classes alone!</DIV>

[Danter]

<P>If SOE starts nerfing other classes, you're still going to have [Removed for Content] off Guardians.</P> <P>Most of the Guardians on here have shelved their class and is now working on a new main or high level alt.  Nerfing class X down to Guardians isn't the answer because it still indirectly affects Guardians.</P> <P>For example, I play a 44 Bruiser now.  If they nerf Bruisers down to Guardians, I'm going to be [Removed for Content] off because I wasted my time with him.  If they boost Guardians, I'll have 2 viable and different classes to play, which would be great.</P> <P>What SOE needs to do is balance Guardians and leave everyone else alone.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drulak wrote:<BR>Monks can take down ^^^ heroics solo too , so its not just root and run classes that can do it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, maybe low blue ones.  There is no way at all I'd be able to kill a lvl 58 cyclops at lvl 55.  None.<BR>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <P>If SOE starts nerfing other classes, you're still going to have [Removed for Content] off Guardians.</P> <P>Most of the Guardians on here have shelved their class and is now working on a new main or high level alt.  Nerfing class X down to Guardians isn't the answer because it still indirectly affects Guardians.</P> <P>For example, I play a 44 Bruiser now.  If they nerf Bruisers down to Guardians, I'm going to be [Removed for Content] off because I wasted my time with him.  If they boost Guardians, I'll have 2 viable and different classes to play, which would be great.</P> <P>What SOE needs to do is balance Guardians and leave everyone else alone.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>100% agree!

[Danan]

The main issue with most classes soloing Heroics is that they can avoid taking damage all together. Giving random melee mobs the ability to use ranged auto attack when rooted or snared would solve all these problems.

[Pry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <P>If SOE starts nerfing other classes, you're still going to have [Removed for Content] off Guardians.</P> <P>Most of the Guardians on here have shelved their class and is now working on a new main or high level alt.  Nerfing class X down to Guardians isn't the answer because it still indirectly affects Guardians.</P> <P>For example, I play a 44 Bruiser now.  If they nerf Bruisers down to Guardians, I'm going to be [Removed for Content] off because I wasted my time with him.  If they boost Guardians, I'll have 2 viable and different classes to play, which would be great.</P> <P>What SOE needs to do is balance Guardians and leave everyone else alone.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, they should have left Guardians completely alone and added to the abilities of the other 5 classes if there was a disparity.  Not make some cockamaime combat system that did nothing but further divide the community and make for a lot of angry people.

[MrDiz]

Why dont more mobs have ranged attacks? They all crusaders?BTW this ranger was trying to avoid casters (probably for this reason) BUT she did take on at least one of them and killed it very fast aswell. maybe they were more trouble for her, which would be why she avoided them, but they were doable.On a side issue, I tried Nek2 for the first time ever last night. Got bugged on the first sister - guard didnt kill her, so we had to stop. But upto where we got was not easy at all. has Nek2 been tuned for postPU13? Cos a full group of 56+ (guardian, 2 temps, wizard, ranger and coercer) really had to stay on its toes just to survive the crap before the sisters <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR>Why dont more mobs have ranged attacks? They all crusaders?<BR><BR>BTW this ranger was trying to avoid casters (probably for this reason) BUT she did take on at least one of them and killed it very fast aswell. maybe they were more trouble for her, which would be why she avoided them, but they were doable.<BR><BR>On a side issue, I tried Nek2 for the first time ever last night. Got bugged on the first sister - guard didnt kill her, so we had to stop. But upto where we got was not easy at all. has Nek2 been tuned for postPU13? Cos a full group of 56+ (guardian, 2 temps, wizard, ranger and coercer) really had to stay on its toes just to survive the crap before the sisters <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>2 words for Nek2:  Group inviser :smileywink:</P> <P>it saves alot of the random bugs headache</P>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDizzi wrote:<BR>Why dont more mobs have ranged attacks? They all crusaders?<BR><BR>BTW this ranger was trying to avoid casters (probably for this reason) BUT she did take on at least one of them and killed it very fast aswell. maybe they were more trouble for her, which would be why she avoided them, but they were doable.<BR><BR>On a side issue, I tried Nek2 for the first time ever last night. Got bugged on the first sister - guard didnt kill her, so we had to stop. But upto where we got was not easy at all. has Nek2 been tuned for postPU13? Cos a full group of 56+ (guardian, 2 temps, wizard, ranger and coercer) really had to stay on its toes just to survive the crap before the sisters <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>2 words for Nek2:  Group inviser :smileywink:</P> <P>it saves alot of the random bugs headache</P> <hr></blockquote>Chameleon totems make group invisers superfuous now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> However problem is many of the doors wont open till u kill the nameds. You can skip some of the crap, but the nameds you gotta do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wabit]

<DIV>the only named you HAVE to kill are the sisters and the ring event at the start...  also gotta kill those 8million HP golems in the first room...  zoned in one time got the message the server is coming down in 1 hr...  we skipped everything cept the spirt sucker (saw invis), the sisters and everling...  left with like 8 mins before server came down...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i haven't been there since revamp, but i'd guess it hasn't been changed yet...  good way to tell is get the sisters to spawn and see what lvl they are, same with everling...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but on a side note...  who remembers that the boots the lord droped being too high to equip when the instance opened???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wabit</DIV>

[MrDiz]

We had to kill the eidon dogs in yard to get to the golems. Then we had to kill the ring event to open the door. We also had to kill the named spider to open the door... and the roamer spiders before and near it. And to clear those spiders you either need to kill them ALL at once or kill the guards near the temple and that roam near it too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Aandien]

<P>Rangers solo easily because the way the proc system works.</P> <P>Bows (if you get a good one) have a really low delay.   Put a stun proc on that bow (that would be that poison you referred to), and you get an extremely high probability that the mob will get stunned whenever he is struck.  Procs work the same way they did in EQLive.  Meaning, proc rates are adjusted based on procs per unit time, and not procs per swing/hit.  So the slower your weapon, the more often you'll proc.</P> <P>So anyway, combine the insane proc rates on bows with stream of arrows and their offensive stance (adds a 500ish proc), and you get insane DPS, and the ability to almost maintain permenant stun ability on heroics or weaker.</P> <P>I would just suggest grouping with a ranger until they nerf bow procs, the ability to apply poisons to bow procs, or something <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Every ranger I know asks "did they nerf us yet?" after each and every patch notes go up on test.</P>

[Raahl]

<P>Stream of Arrows is being changed a little on test. </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> - Stream of Arrows now has a minimum range of 5 meters. The art should no longer cause problems with stealth abilities after it is used. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

[MrDiz]

She is 58 now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Im beginning to think i could take a rander from 1 to 60 faster than my swashy from 43 to 60. Actually im thinking I could take a ranger 1 to 60 faster than my templar 58 to 60 right now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <P>Stream of Arrows is being changed a little on test. </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> - Stream of Arrows now has a minimum range of 5 meters. The art should no longer cause problems with stealth abilities after it is used. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>umm you know how small 5m is...  try useing one of our intervene skills with a 5m range...  you might as well be holding hands...</P> <P>Wabit</P>

[Gandof82]

rangers arent the only class that can kill even con 3arrows etc , there is atleast one class that does it even easier , its not a mage , have fun, good night folks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Gandof82 wrote:rangers arent the only class that can kill even con 3arrows etc , there is atleast one class that does it even easier , its not a mage , have fun, good night folks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote> Not even cons.... lvl 58 mobs, lvl 55 ranger <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> laddich wrote:<BR> <P>In regard to OP:</P> <P> </P> <P>Nothing equal in this game. I just got very depressed from reading the Beserker forum. They top-5 DPS AND can be main raid tank. Oh man how Guardians suck compared to them. * bonks head on wall three times * . Now let me post on the Guardians who died thread :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>Don't go to the zerker forum bro's. Just don't .</P> <P> </P> <P>And I found the end of all Guardian trouble in this URL: <A href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/index.php" target=_blank>http://www.vanguardsoh.com/index.php</A></P> <P>Message Edited by laddich on <SPAN class=date_text>11-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:16 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah we can hit the top 5, we are the 5th on the top 5 list and it takes a group of mobs plus every 3 mins for us to do it, so for the other 2 mins 40 seconds we are mediocre DPS at best coming in way behind Scouts by a long shot and still cant tank as well as a Guardian can, but since LU#13 we can tank alot better, but still not as good as a Guardian.</P> <P>Wait a sec wasnt this thread about how some classes that can solo are able to solo mobs that a small group have trouble taking down? Next you will say you seen a Berserker soloing the lvl 58 cyclops at lvl 55 also............:smileyindifferent:</P>