Finally I broke down,

[TanRaistlyn]

<DIV>After grinding out 5 levels to level 55 since LU13, I have come to the conclusion without a doubt that the "new" guardian class is just not for me.  This was a sad event for me, because I was the guild MT for many months, and all those great men and women worked so hard to get me in full fabled so we could do every epic mob in the game.  Now with the new "content" and the new "characters" I have no fun playing my guardian anymore.  All the T5 fabled we worked so hard to get is rendered useless, in favor of having us all whack a rock for hours to get cobalt armor that blows the T5 fabled stuff out of the water.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me the new guardian class lacks anything that makes them unique and fun.  There are innumerable problems with broken content, and unbalanced classes.  I could write for hours on the all the things that are ruining this game for me, and half my guildmates.  T5 raids that are impossible now(even after they were "supposedly" fixed last week), the lack of decent T6 lewt, the mitigation caps while raid buffed are easy to hit without fabled armor, the sheild factor means absolutely nothing, useless intervene skills, resistable tuants, and the list goes on and on.  We arent even alone, other classes feel the brunt of these changes and buggs too, read the pally boards, or the coercer boards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me I feel cheated, in that SOE took something away from me that I grew to love for almost a year.  Changed everything we knew about the game, and a lot of it not for the better.  My "high end" raiding guild has lost approx. 25 people since LU13 which is about a third of our player base.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After considering it for some time, I decided not to sell my toons and close my account.  Instead I rolled a bruiser, and Ill continue to play him casually till Vanguard comes out, mostly because we as a guild hope to move over together, and so we are trying to stay in touch with each other.  I might also mention that on our server "faydark" there is now only 1 guild left that is raiding T6 content, the others have either broken up, left the game, or lost too many people to make a stab at the new mobs.  And that one guild is also planning on moving to vanguard once it goes live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I write this for a certain monk who patrols our boards, saying that guards are fine and working as intended, and whom also has stated in serveral other threads  that he thinks there will be no mass exodus to vanguard when it comes out.  I am aware of approximetly 150 people between both guilds that are extremely excited and waiting with baited breath for its release, and I cant imagine its much different on the other servers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Covenant 55 Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Faydark Server</DIV> <DIV>Leader of Clan of Shadows www.cosguild.com</DIV>

[Shakir10]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>After grinding out 5 levels to level 55 since LU13, I have come to the conclusion without a doubt that the "new" guardian class is just not for me.  This was a sad event for me, because I was the guild MT for many months, and all those great men and women worked so hard to get me in full fabled so we could do every epic mob in the game.  Now with the new "content" and the new "characters" I have no fun playing my guardian anymore.  All the T5 fabled we worked so hard to get is rendered useless, in favor of having us all whack a rock for hours to get cobalt armor that blows the T5 fabled stuff out of the water.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me the new guardian class lacks anything that makes them unique and fun.  There are innumerable problems with broken content, and unbalanced classes.  I could write for hours on the all the things that are ruining this game for me, and half my guildmates.  T5 raids that are impossible now(even after they were "supposedly" fixed last week), the lack of decent T6 lewt, the mitigation caps while raid buffed are easy to hit without fabled armor, the sheild factor means absolutely nothing, useless intervene skills, resistable tuants, and the list goes on and on.  We arent even alone, other classes feel the brunt of these changes and buggs too, read the pally boards, or the coercer boards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me I feel cheated, in that SOE took something away from me that I grew to love for almost a year.  Changed everything we knew about the game, and a lot of it not for the better.  My "high end" raiding guild has lost approx. 25 people since LU13 which is about a third of our player base.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After considering it for some time, I decided not to sell my toons and close my account.  Instead I rolled a bruiser, and Ill continue to play him casually till Vanguard comes out, mostly because we as a guild hope to move over together, and so we are trying to stay in touch with each other.  I might also mention that on our server "faydark" there is now only 1 guild left that is raiding T6 content, the others have either broken up, left the game, or lost too many people to make a stab at the new mobs.  And that one guild is also planning on moving to vanguard once it goes live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I write this for a certain monk who patrols our boards, saying that guards are fine and working as intended, and whom also has stated in serveral other threads  that he thinks there will be no mass exodus to vanguard when it comes out.  I am aware of approximetly 150 people between both guilds that are extremely excited and waiting with baited breath for its release, and I cant imagine its much different on the other servers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Covenant 55 Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Faydark Server</DIV> <DIV>Leader of Clan of Shadows www.cosguild.com</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think it's a lot more than the two guilds your talking about just buying time till either Vanguard or D&D online come out. A lot of smaller ones on all servers are probobly also waiting for that

[TanRaistlyn]

<DIV>Aye im sure there are, I am just referrencing the ones I know of for sure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Covenant</DIV>

[Wabit]

<P>my guild is waiting for Vaunguard too, we haven't lost as many ppl as ya'll have but alot are getting really bored with the broken classes, lack of loots/mobs, camping, ect...</P> <P>Wabit</P>

[Raijinn]

<P>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes may very well be made.</P> <P>That's all I have available to tell you all at this point however if I hear anything I will be sure to pass along the news.</P>

[Krooner]

<P>What would Go a loooooooooooong way Raijinn is to change this:</P> <P>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes may very well be made.</P> <P> </P> <P>INTO something like this.</P> <DIV>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes <STRONG><FONT color=#6633ff><U>are being worked out as we speak.  We at SOE are only interested in making the game fun for all.  We want to get this update to Guardians right so we are taking our time.  We expect a resolution shortly.  Thank you.</U></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand it may not be within your privy to make such a statement... but there has to be someone who could.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-31-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:59 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class=date_text>10-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 PM</span>

[chaoticra]

<DIV>I hate to say but ive played guardian since release day 1 and I am also mt for my guild and since combat changes the guard class is just not fun to play anymore. In matter of fact it just isnt guards, there is a whole host of other classes that are having the same problem in guild , which i may state taht our guild of 176 people is also moving to vanguard, everyone worked so hard the previous year to only have the carpet taking from right out beneath them.</DIV>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raijinnstein's Monster wrote:<BR> <P>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however <FONT color=#ff00ff>I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes may very well be made.</FONT></P> <P>That's all I have available to tell you all at this point however if I hear anything I will be sure to pass along the news.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>that is dreary news on Holloween...  i'm reading that as the probably won't do anything, but they might...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i moniter a football game on TV and i may go down to the head coaches office and say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are you doing, but i probably won't...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wabit</DIV>

[Landiin]

Every one that I know on my server that is a raider is waiting on vanguard. I really hate to see that because I am an EQ fan but sadly IMO and a lot of others EQ2 hasn't carried on the leggacy verry well. Yea its not EQ /shrug they should of named it EQ Light and not EQ2 because it is no where in the realm of EQ. What started as a great game has been beat down by sightless people who refuse to see what carries any game and that is the hard core gamer. <p>Message Edited by Landiin on <span class=date_text>10-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:28 PM</span>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>i've pretty much seen all the classes tank after CU and i kind of see the monk as bieng the best so far, they cant keep aggro as solid but seems like they take damage pretty well.</DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>It doesnt even matter who tanks the best to me anymore.  Just making my class fun and challenging would make me happy.  Or fix the t5 raid content, or make sheilds useful, or fix the stupid intervene line...or make T6 lewt worth raiding for AND make it so its not completely obsolete when the next expansion comes out raising the tiers...Do something, and do it quick, cuz I dont have much hope left in me.</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P>

[boucani]

<P>I played my guard since december 2004.  I feel just the same.  I dont want to be the best tank, I want my guard to be fun to play, not just a piece of digital meat.  We just doesnt shine among other tanks anymore.</P> <P> </P> <P>Rustan on Lavastorm</P>

[Setherio]

<span><blockquote><hr>Raijinnstein's Monster wrote:<p>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes may very well be made.</p> <p>That's all I have available to tell you all at this point however if I hear anything I will be sure to pass along the news.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span> Since day one i have been hearing the same thing from you sony. "We are aware of the problem, we are working on it and it will be fixed soon". And yet with every singel patch you kick the playerbase in the nuts, and as hard as you possibly can. imagine this game as a car. "Yes we are aware that you can not steer anymore, we are looking into the problem" three weeks later they turn it into a motorcycle that only have revers gear. "Yes we are monitoring the problem. We have a fix in the test lab" a month goes by and they turn your vehicle into a minibus, you can steer now and go forward but the breaks have been removed and any passenger have to stand on the roof becouse there is no room in the car. As you might have guessed the next quick fix is just around the corner, and as promised 4 weeks later your car is made out of paper and pvc.

[Prufro]

<span><blockquote><hr>Raijinnstein's Monster wrote:<p>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes <b>may very well be made</b>.</p> <p>That's all I have available to tell you all at this point however if I hear anything I will be sure to pass along the news.</p> <hr></blockquote>There goes my optimism.  Yeah, i tank fine, but i would definitely like some changes.  I can deal with what's there, and i have fun, but [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] i'd like some changes. Why?  Because it seems the server communities are beginning to believe guardians suck, so no one is inviting guardians.  This is sad, and posts from Rajinn that say we have a chance to maybe get a potential fix and it might happen at some point make it even more sad. Rajinn, every other one of your posts is positive, and they make it sound like changes will be made.  Now this one says they might be made. I hate being 30-50% lower on power than every other class after any type of battle, groups, raiding, or soloing.  Why? Because the group sees that as a problem, and when they see someone else without that problem, then i am removed. I hate being smashed by every single hit that's thrown at me, and only getting hit for 300 less than a brawler for that 5000 damage hit, if he ever gets hit.  Why? Because that makes me a lot more of a liability.  And what do you with liabilities if you have a replacement? Remove them. Server communities are removing guardians from groups.  This doesn't affect me, i have a static group who are ok with me taking time to regen power after every fight even though they're full.  Yet it does affect me, because i am a guardian, and the guardian community is being ignored, and some day i'll be level 60 and my static group will do things without each other, so i'll have to deal with being in a group as a non-tank. Rajinn, you just took 10 steps back on the hope that existed for us.  I really wish i enjoyed playing WoW as i'd be there and wouldn't have to worry about this crap.  But i hate that game, so i'm here making the best of what i have. /frustration off </span><span>/frustration off </span><span>/frustration off </span><span>/frustration off [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], i guess it's broken until further notice. </span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I write this for a certain monk who patrols our boards who has stated in serveral other threads that he thinks there will be no mass exodus to vanguard when it comes out.  I am aware of approximetly 150 people between both guilds that are extremely excited and waiting with baited breath for its release, and I cant imagine its much different on the other servers. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>For the sake of arguement lets say EQ2 has between 250,000 and 350,000 active subscribers with new ones joining everyday.</P> <P>Lets say Vanguard takes and keeps 500 people from each and every server.  That's quite over your estimations.</P> <P>That's 14,500 EQ2 players moving to Vanguard.</P> <P>That still leaves what around 235,000 players give or take.</P> <P>Plus whatever new content/changes/expansions bring.</P> <P>I'm sure EQ2 will lose some players to Vanguard and probably DDO; or even maybe City of Villians.  Will it be a "mass exodeous"?  No.  Will it kill EQ2?  No.<BR></P>

[phlebas]

<P>I lost interest in my guard pretty soon after CU13 but decided to play on to 54 in the hope a few chnages would be made and the class would be fun to play again.  Well i hit 54 last night and thats it for me, its just boring, the fun left and never returned.</P> <P>P (another guardian gives up)</P>

[Thanous]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote: <blockquote> <hr> TanRaistlyn wrote: <div> </div> <div>I write this for a certain monk who patrols our boards who has stated in serveral other threads that he thinks there will be no mass exodus to vanguard when it comes out.  I am aware of approximetly 150 people between both guilds that are extremely excited and waiting with baited breath for its release, and I cant imagine its much different on the other servers. <hr> </div></blockquote> <p>For the sake of arguement lets say EQ2 has between 250,000 and 350,000 active subscribers with new ones joining everyday.</p> <p>Lets say Vanguard takes and keeps 500 people from each and every server.  That's quite over your estimations.</p> <p>That's 14,500 EQ2 players moving to Vanguard.</p> <p>That still leaves what around 235,000 players give or take.</p> <p>Plus whatever new content/changes/expansions bring.</p> <p>I'm sure EQ2 will lose some players to Vanguard and probably DDO; or even maybe City of Villians.  Will it be a "mass exodeous"?  No.  Will it kill EQ2?  No.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>What I found with SWG wasn't that a single game really hurt it's numbers, but different demographics.  Long time players got left behind with the release of City of Heros.  (I lost 90% of my PA to that game) Whole guilds then left when WOW came out. Some left when Matrix came out And then you have the steady bleeding to other games as the people who leave continue to recruit their old friends to their new game of choice.  I really think that this last item is the dangerous one for any game. Community is what keeps games together for long periods.  If there is a major exit from one game to another, it isn't the initial impact that I worry about. With all that in mind, the question will is, can SOE keep this game fresh, polish the combat changes, and provide enough content (raids, items, armor graphics, ect.) to keep people entertained more then a completely fresh and new game would?  (Even if it is a revamp of the same old themes and ideas, like they say about reruns...if you haven't seen it, then it's new to you!) </span><div></div>

[TanRaistlyn]

<DIV>250,000 active accounts in EQ2 right now is about accurate, but Im willing to bet a lot more then 500 per server leave the game once Vanguard comes out.  I was just speaking of 2 guilds that I have the honor of knowing were planning on leaving.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fom my experience on my server is that, anyone who plays this game more then twice a week and has a toon level 50+ is planning on leaving this game.  And thats not an exageration take a poll of the player base urself Im willing to wager 90percent of those people plan on leaving.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most cases even the lower level guilds, and newbie guilds, usually have a couple higher level people that run things, and generally keep the guild together.  What happens when those people leave this game for vanguard, their guilds fall apart and more people leave the game because their friends no longer play, and not even having anything to do with going over to Vanguard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And what about those new people who are joining with the hopes of leveling up and joining a uber raiding guild...once they see those guilds are all gone also quit the game.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even though there is no possible way either of us could prove what will happen in the future,my bet is on a good 30-40percent of people cancelling their accounts when Vanguard comes out.  (Certainly the Guardian community as almost a whole is considering it atm)  Guess we will find out in about a year.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Covenant</DIV>

[Gaige]

<DIV>Lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>90% of EQ2's playerbase going to Vanguard huh?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yup, this isn't doomsaying similiar to the release of DAoC is it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Too bad that DAoC killed EQ1 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>90percent of the player base that is over levle 50 is what i said.  You musta missread or I wasnt clear in what I was saying.</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P>

[Gaige]

You also said players who "play two times a week" which I interpreted as casual.  Perhaps you meant over 50 and play more than two times a week.  Apologies if I misunderstood.

[TanRaistlyn]

<DIV>That is what I meant.  Sorry for the confusion, you know I still love you!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Covenant</DIV>

[Ironmeow]

well ill definately get vanguard when it comes out but wont cancle my eq2 account unless im convinced vanguard is a better game, which it might be.

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <DIV>Lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>90% of EQ2's playerbase going to Vanguard huh?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yup, this isn't doomsaying similiar to the release of DAoC is it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Too bad that DAoC killed EQ1 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nope, EQ1 killed EQ1, or at least forced a merge of the servers.  EQ2 will kill itself, another game will just be the cure for many.

[Greyto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I write this for a certain monk who patrols our boards who has stated in serveral other threads that he thinks there will be no mass exodus to vanguard when it comes out.  I am aware of approximetly 150 people between both guilds that are extremely excited and waiting with baited breath for its release, and I cant imagine its much different on the other servers. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>For the sake of arguement lets say EQ2 has between 250,000 and 350,000 active subscribers with new ones joining everyday.</P> <P>Lets say Vanguard takes and keeps 500 people from each and every server.  That's quite over your estimations.</P> <P>That's 14,500 EQ2 players moving to Vanguard.</P> <P>That still leaves what around 235,000 players give or take.</P> <P>Plus whatever new content/changes/expansions bring.</P> <P>I'm sure EQ2 will lose some players to Vanguard and probably DDO; or even maybe City of Villians.  Will it be a "mass exodeous"?  No.  Will it kill EQ2?  No.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL Gaige, </P> <P>I'm sure EQ2 will lose some players to Vanguard and probably DDO; or even maybe City of Villians.  Will it be a "mass exodeous"?  <STRIKE>No</STRIKE> I hope not.  Will it kill EQ2? <STRIKE>No</STRIKE> I Hope not.</P> <DIV>There fixed it for ya. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No charge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR>Nope, EQ1 killed EQ1, or at least forced a merge of the servers.  EQ2 will kill itself, another game will just be the cure for many. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Last I checked EQ1 is still live, still has players, still has Fan Faires and still has Community Summits.</P> <P>Not bad for a game that killed itself.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Greytoon wrote:<BR><BR> <P>I'm sure EQ2 will lose some players to Vanguard and probably DDO; or even maybe City of Villians.  Will it be a "mass exodeous"?  <STRIKE>No</STRIKE> I hope not.  Will it kill EQ2? <STRIKE>No</STRIKE> I Hope not.</P> <DIV>There fixed it for ya. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No charge. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Lets be honest.  The odds are against Vanguard being the demise of EQ2.</P> <P>There are always doomsayers, but I seriously doubt EQ2 dies unless SOE wants it too.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>10-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:49 PM</span>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR>Nope, EQ1 killed EQ1, or at least forced a merge of the servers.  EQ2 will kill itself, another game will just be the cure for many. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Last I checked EQ1 is still live, still has players, still has Fan Faires and still has Community Summits.</P> <P>Not bad for a game that killed itself.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Gaige on <SPAN class=date_text>10-31-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:49 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Seriously gaige, I would LOVE to live in your world <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  A healthy, growing game does not have to combine servers to half the amount they had.</P> <P>Im on life support, plugged in and using a respirator...But I havent died dammit.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Sunrayn wrote: <P>Seriously gaige, I would LOVE to live in your world <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  A healthy, growing game does not have to combine servers to half the amount they had.</P> <P>Im on life support, plugged in and using a respirator...But I havent died dammit.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I never said they didn't consolidate servers, nor did I say they were growing.</P> <P>I said they still have players, still make a profit and still have Fan Faires and the like.</P> <P>The game is obviously not dead.</P> <P>Shadowbane, Horizons, Asheron's Call 2... those are dead.</P> <P>It has been six years you know...<BR></P>

[Frostborne]

All I can say is I waited it out, nothing came of it, and I've heard nothing since, just the same old "it's as intended", so time to move on.  My time has been waisted, and the game is no longer worth playing for me since everyone I know has left for other games.   I really hate to say it, but the game developers shot themselves in the foot with LU13 and since.  Alot of it has gotten better with release, things I though should have been there before being released, but the "direction" of the game hasn't bee going where I would have liked it to. <div></div>

[Thanous]

Also, don't forget that the growth of the game in terms of land area helped give reasons to merge servers.  A single server can support more active players when there are more zones for them to play in. <div></div>

[Frostborne]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> Sunrayn wrote: <p>Seriously gaige, I would LOVE to live in your world <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  A healthy, growing game does not have to combine servers to half the amount they had.</p> <p>Im on life support, plugged in and using a respirator...But I havent died dammit.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I never said they didn't consolidate servers, nor did I say they were growing.</p> <p>I said they still have players, still make a profit and still have Fan Faires and the like.</p> <p>The game is obviously not dead.</p> <p>Shadowbane, Horizons, Asheron's Call 2... those are dead.</p> <p>It has been six years you know...</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Well don't tell their player bases that, cause they still think the game is great and not dead....sort of like you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When you do a /who on the server and get back a message from it saying...."thank god you're still here, I missed you!" - you know it's bad.</span><div></div>

[lotteria]

No body will do a loser business for just 250K or less if they were supposed to aim for 5M or more. WoW did that but is unreachable for SoE. The Dev just dont have the crack of it.  Guardian is one of the most populated class before CU and usually, also MT/GL/Officers of hardcore raiding guilds. It is a very ill marketing attempt in the CU to [Removed for Content] off both your biggest customer base and the hardcore raiders at the same time.  Even worse, it is the Dev's "everything working as intented" attitue killing this game.

[Yiago]

<span><blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Raijinnstein's Monster wrote: <p>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however <font color="#ff00ff">I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes may very well be made.</font></p> <p>That's all I have available to tell you all at this point however if I hear anything I will be sure to pass along the news.</p> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>that is dreary news on Holloween...  i'm reading that as the probably won't do anything, but they might...</div> <div> </div> <div>i moniter a football game on TV and i may go down to the head coaches office and say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are you doing, but i probably won't...</div> <div> </div> <div>Wabit</div><hr></blockquote>ROFLMAOPMP!!!  to funny!  I would come over and give you $100.00 but I probably won't! hehe  </span>

[Ladicav]

<P>EQ2 will not die, but EQ2 will also not be the game that it could have promised to live up to. many people will leave EQ2, but many will stay also. It will become another one of those online games that has a medicore number of players, mostly die hard fans who will play until the servers close, their guild folds or their friends leave whichever comes first, just like in EQ1. </P> <P>But that doesn't mean it's a successful game, it just means it will survive, in some form.</P> <P>Look at all the wonderful graphics and zones and everything the devs put into it, and it's a shame that it will never be one of those "legendary" online games. It may have been, if the devs didn't screw around with it so much.</P> <P>EQ2 had real promise, but I fear it's just going to run out of time now.</P>

[RafaelSmith]

I dont care what the official "subscription" numbers say.  "/who all" tells the real story.   Zones are ghost towns for the most part.  Even after the expansion after visiting some of the new zones once or twice and seeing the craptastic loot noone goes back.  Ive played alot of those other games and trust me EQ2 is ALOT closer to being dead than people wanna admit. Why? its hard to tsay...but i honestly feel the game is fundamentally flawed on many levels which is making it hard to breath new life into it.  Too much dependency on Crafted gear for too large a percentage of the population?   Having only Rare crafted or Fabled be the only real choices for gear pretty much kills alot of what makes MMOS fun. Too much tiering? Too little choices in "advancement paths" for players to choose from? Too many classes broken up amongst only 4 roles? Who knows but something is seriously wrong and needs to be fixed if EQ2 has any hope of even getting close to its potential. Whe I played EQ1 and some of the other games came out...its was a very hard decision to leave and go try them...When I ask myself what that decision will be like when Vanguard or DDO come out i realize that it will not be anywhere near the level of dificulty.  That to me is a pretty good indication that something is just not right with EQ2.  <div></div>

[Gungo]

<DIV>I'll probably purchase vanguard when it comes out. (I'll still play eq2)  And i'll probably play an inquisitor (tank in vanguard). And i will probably argue with warriors there when they claim that warriors are suppsoe to be the best tank when there are 3 equal tanks in vanguard. funny though i will bet 90% of the people who play a warrior in vanguard will miss that fact. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>11-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:28 AM</span>

[Suite]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR><BR>Nope, EQ1 killed EQ1, or at least forced a merge of the servers.  EQ2 will kill itself, another game will just be the cure for many. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2>EQ1 is far from dead. In fact, if you log into EQ1 there are far more players available on the server I've been on (Fennin Ro) for grouping than there are on my EQ2 server (Blackburrow).</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2>Suite</FONT></P> <P><BR> </P>

[Big Da]

<DIV>I'd say the odds are most EQ2 players will be interested in vanguard its how many stay and how many vacation there.</DIV>

[Shizzirri]

They recently consolidated servers on EQ1 that's why there's more people.

[Landiin]

<P>Untill SOE fixes the 'END GAME' content EQ2 will never NEVER be a top game. In every game I have ever played, the one that keeps a steady player base is the ones that kater more to the hard core player base. These are the people that pay for all the bells a game has to offer, these are the people that make the game better by pushing the dev team. You lose these type of people and you left with a dev team develiping content for for people who play 2hr or less a day, when you need people that play 5+ hrs a day. If there is no goal to a game ( does eq2 have one ) then people will try it and leave. You must get and keep the hard core player base or your game will die. That is the ONLY reason EQLive is still here, They kater to the hard core player, Thats why WoW shot to the top, they made it easy to for people to reach end game content fast and suport them. Now they they have a strong player base they may or may not tone back the speed you reach these lvls. But they will suport the hard core crew not screw them. Enter vanguard, they state right off the top who they will suport and that is the hard core people and that is why you see all the people in top end guilds saying they are going there.</P> <P>In game loto isn't going to keep people, [Removed for Content] models arn't going to keep people. End game content will keep people, not screwing your hard core player for their time every expantion will keep them and most of all good CS and comunication will keep people. EQ2 has none of these sadly. They have copied so many things from other games and thats not bad but they failed to copy the most important thing of all; suporting the people that bay the big buck to play the game.</P>

[Frostborne]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div></div> <div>I'll probably purchase vanguard when it comes out. (I'll still play eq2)  And i'll probably play an inquisitor (tank in vanguard). And i will probably argue with warriors there when they claim that warriors are suppsoe to be the best tank when there are 3 equal tanks in vanguard. funny though i will bet 90% of the people who play a warrior in vanguard will miss that fact. </div><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class="date_text">11-01-2005</span> <span class="time_text">08:28 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Well if they don't say that as part of their advertising that any one tank "will be the best at this", or "is the leader in this area", then they shouldn't.   They really shouldn't put text or flavor anywhere that makes those sorts of implications.  For instance in WOW, they outright say the warrior has the ability to "take the most damage"....it doesn't say that a paladin should have the right to do that as well, it says exactly what it means.  Again, they shouldn't change the dynamics of a game a year into production, if they intend of making such stark changes.   It's just bad buisness practice.</span><div></div>

[Xith]

Since the expansion my guild which was tank heavy doesnt have any tanks now.  We are SOL without a bruiser. Of the old tank classes we have one paladin, and one guardian left. Only 1 of the top 5 guilds are really raiding... Alot of people are MIA. Several people already switched to WoW and are really enjoying it and are recruiting players from EQ2 to WoW.  The people who havent moved over to WoW are waiting for Vanguard. Im not sure what the rest of them are going to do... No one really seems to be having alot of fun tho. I think the classes are more broken now then pre-fix. Seems Brad McQuad was the one shaping EQ1 by ripping off ideas from the online M.u.d.d. (s) and experience with the online world.... now that he is gone it seems the people that remain are online newbies. <div></div>

[Timzil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I write this for a certain monk who patrols our boards who has stated in serveral other threads that he thinks there will be no mass exodus to vanguard when it comes out.  I am aware of approximetly 150 people between both guilds that are extremely excited and waiting with baited breath for its release, and I cant imagine its much different on the other servers. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>For the sake of arguement lets say EQ2 has between 250,000 and 350,000 active subscribers with new ones joining everyday.</P> <P>Lets say Vanguard takes and keeps 500 people from each and every server.  That's quite over your estimations.</P> <P>That's 14,500 EQ2 players moving to Vanguard.</P> <P>That still leaves what around 235,000 players give or take.</P> <P>Plus whatever new content/changes/expansions bring.</P> <P>I'm sure EQ2 will lose some players to Vanguard and probably DDO; or even maybe City of Villians.  Will it be a "mass exodeous"?  No.  Will it kill EQ2?  No.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The mass exodus from EQ2 already occured about 3 months after release. I doubt there's more than 75 to 100K active accounts now. Hell, SOE won't even go after botters and such any more because they can't afford to lose the subscriptions. New game releases will definately put a dent in the remaining numbers. At least until the consumer concludes that that game bites too.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landiin wrote:<BR> <P>[Removed for Content] models arn't going to keep people.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>You know, you'd come off a lot better if you said asian models.</DIV>

[Usermaat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raijinnstein's Monster wrote:<BR> <P>I can understand what your concerns are as they seem to be pretty similar as to what other Guardians are saying however I have heard the situation is being monitored and changes may very well be made.</P> <P>That's all I have available to tell you all at this point however if I hear anything I will be sure to pass along the news.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You forgot to add, Please keep paying your monthly fee.

[Landiin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landiin wrote:<BR> <P>[Removed for Content] models arn't going to keep people.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>You know, you'd come off a lot better if you said asian models.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>[Removed for Content], Asian /shrug u knew what I ment. better yet I should of said the eastern people style modle vs the western people style model isn't gonna help.. I wouldn't want to affend any one..</P> <P>Prob best if you quit trying to make somthing out of nothing.</P>

[Gaige]

I'm not trying to make anything out of anything.  I just said your choice of wording was lackluster.

[Greyto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR>I'm not trying to make anything out of anything.  I just said your choice of wording was lackluster. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guardian zoned into Sinking Sands twice today <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[TunaBoo]

We are in no rush to vanguard in my guild, as it is all hype and nothing proven yet. A lot of big talk does not a good game make. On the other hand, guardians need fixed. <div></div>

[Ladicav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>We are in no rush to vanguard in my guild, as it is all hype and nothing proven yet. A lot of big talk does not a good game make.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is very true. There was mass hype before EQ2 came out and now look what has become of it.<BR>

[SeattleSeven]

<span><blockquote><hr>Landiin wrote:<p>Untill SOE fixes the 'END GAME' content EQ2 will never NEVER be a top game. In every game I have ever played, the one that keeps a steady player base is the ones that kater more to the hard core player base. These are the people that pay for all the bells a game has to offer, these are the people that make the game better by pushing the dev team. You lose these type of people and you left with a dev team develiping content for for people who play 2hr or less a day, when you need people that play 5+ hrs a day. If there is no goal to a game ( does eq2 have one ) then people will try it and leave. You must get and keep the hard core player base or your game will die. That is the ONLY reason EQLive is still here, They kater to the hard core player, Thats why WoW shot to the top, they made it easy to for people to reach end game content fast and suport them. Now they they have a strong player base they may or may not tone back the speed you reach these lvls. But they will suport the hard core crew not screw them. Enter vanguard, they state right off the top who they will suport and that is the hard core people and that is why you see all the people in top end guilds saying they are going there.</p> <p>In game loto isn't going to keep people, [Removed for Content] models arn't going to keep people. End game content will keep people, not screwing your hard core player for their time every expantion will keep them and most of all good CS and comunication will keep people. EQ2 has none of these sadly. They have copied so many things from other games and thats not bad but they failed to copy the most important thing of all; suporting the people that bay the big buck to play the game.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> This is so wrong. If you only continue to expand the game at the top end you will never really attract new players to the game.  Ultimately even the top end players leave.  DoF is such a monumental failure because it is only useful for characters level 45+.  Expansions need to have something for everyone.  We need new players to want to come to this game, but I would argue this game hasn't improved much since launch.  In many ways there are worse aspects to this game than at launch. An expansion should bring new life into a game, not provide the same skill set from T5 into T6 with slightly larger numbers.  A new expansion should freshen the game up.  This expansion had some new real estate, and the ability to scale a wall. I hate to be a naysayer...but lately I am starting to agree with them!  Please SOE, fight back!  Rally!</span><div></div>

[Shizzirri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SeattleSeven wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>This is so wrong.<BR><BR>If you only continue to expand the game at the top end you will never really attract new players to the game.  Ultimately even the top end players leave.  <BR><BR>DoF is such a monumental failure because it is only useful for characters level 45+.  Expansions need to have something for everyone.  We need new players to want to come to this game, but I would argue this game hasn't improved much since launch.  In many ways there are worse aspects to this game than at launch.<BR><BR>An expansion should bring new life into a game, not provide the same skill set from T5 into T6 with slightly larger numbers.  A new expansion should freshen the game up.  This expansion had some new real estate, and the ability to scale a wall.<BR><BR>I hate to be a naysayer...but lately I am starting to agree with them!  Please SOE, fight back!  Rally!<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The reason why DOF is so oriented at the top end is because pre dof there was hardly any top-end content out there.  The reason DoF doesn't work well is it was rushed at the same time with the combat revamp.  They should of done one first (revamp) then sort out those problems for a month or so then release the expansion.  SoE however decided to hit us with both at the same time and it caused more problems and their still being fixed.  I'd say a vast majority of the EQ2 crowd at that time we're either already 50 or real close, high level -people quit because they're bored with the game.<BR>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Greytoon wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guardian zoned into Sinking Sands twice today <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No way, uh uh, no how.  Aint no guardian uber enough to survive zoning into Sinking Sands, not even one time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You musta meant your guardian SAW a  MONK zone in twice  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Greyto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Greytoon wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guardian zoned into Sinking Sands twice today <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No way, uh uh, no how.  Aint no guardian uber enough to survive zoning into Sinking Sands, not even one time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You musta meant your guardian SAW a  MONK zone in twice  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guardian had a raid force to keep him safe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />