Wli
10-28-2005, 10:27 PM
<DIV>I took the liberty to copy the posts I found. Sorry if you(the author) don't like it, Say so and I will delete it. Thank you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This post sums what is the situation now. Simply put, the "FLAVOR" for the guardian is defensive tank. We should DEFEND the group very well:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>______________________________________________</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=84344" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=84344</A> <- Author, <BR>-----------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Nemi wrote:</DIV> <DIV><BR>To me:</DIV> <DIV>Monk: Kung Fu master with some weird Kai abilities</DIV> <DIV>Bruiser: Bad [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mofo that just likes to punch things till they're soft</DIV> <DIV>Paladin: Devout knight seeking to eradicate evil</DIV> <DIV>Shadowknight: Meglomaniac knight looking to gain power from forbidden magic</DIV> <DIV>Berserker: Crazed warrior that minces things unable to feel pain until the battle is over</DIV> <DIV>Guardian: Hulking hero that wades into the middle of enemies to protect his team from harm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>Message Edited by Nemi on 10-28-2005 09:36 AM</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>Well im a halfling so hulking isnt gonna work for me Seriously though, youre description is pretty much perfect. As was the only other person to try.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Guardians flavour is : taking hits for the group.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>The problem is the very definition of tanking is 'taking hits for the group'. In a very real sense the guardians flavour is his role. So what we need here is some way for Guardians to 'take hits for the group' without it being the same as 'tanking' and for this flavour to have a noticable impact on the game so as to make it as desirable flavour as 'dps' flavoured. </DIV> <DIV>-------------------------<BR>Dizzi - Halfling, 57 Templar / 22 Sage<BR>Tizzi - Halfling, 56 guardian / 60 Armorer<BR>Gizzi - Halfling, 43 Swashbuckler / 60 Provisioner<BR>_______________________________________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok. Then, we have some posts about CAs that could then achive this porpose:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>_______________________________________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=6477" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=6477</A> <- Author, </DIV> <DIV><BR>55 Warlock here, (50 Guardian been shelved since pre LU13, Ex MT for my guild). I am going to offer up some ideas, because imho Guards need some love/spice....... Som'tin...<BR> <BR> <BR>Sugestions:<BR> <BR>A utility line that matches the 'Guardian flavor' of fighter archetype: (Reflect) two lines of this could be implemented, here is the break down.<BR> <BR>A) Reflect: 15 seconds of immunity that reflects a % of the damage back at the mob. I was thinking 50% back to mob, 50% drops off. This does two things, reduces damage taken for short period of time, builds hate twords the guard. <Requires tower shield><BR>Play with dur times/amount reflected, ect... Im just using these as examples.<BR> <BR>B) Proflect: (Yah, I made the word up but hear me out): 15 seconds of immunity/protection on 'a' group member, reflecting 50% of the damage back to the mob. This would serve a couple of purposes, 'Guarding/protecting' a group member, build hate, deal DPS to mob, enhancing hate generation overall. <Requires tower shield><BR> <BR>Play with durration times/amount actualy reflected, ect... Im just using these as examples.<BR>C) Change guardian Sphere , Guardian uses Guardian Sphere to protect the whole group, reflecting some of the damage back to the mob, at the same time absorbing the remaining %, for 15 seconds. I was thinking 50/50 absorsbe/reflected. Again refresh inline with the other Fighter CA's of the immune line. blah blah add hate/flavor blah blah. <Requires tower shield></DIV> <DIV>Play with dur times/amount reflected, ect... Im just using these as examples.<BR> <BR> <BR>If none of these changes are possible, then may I make a rudimentary suggestion: <BR> <BR>1)Change the Guards agro CA to Absorb hate, not drop hate off the intended target. This one change would go along ways.<BR> <BR>2) Add some spice to make it as appealing to group a guard as any of the other 'fighter' classes. Something unique, (Protections is so situational; it needs to be apealing to be viable, and increasing the total damage the group takes by protecting is not apealing). Someone needs to get the creative juices flowing atSOE HQ. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Note:<BR> <BR>Avoidance vs. Mitigation: One thing that I am honestly surprised has not been mentioned (or maybe I missed it) is that with Avoidance, you get stunned stifled a lot less than say a Mitigation tank, that takes more hits for less damage. So right there as mit tank, your DPS suffers, ability to hold agro suffers, ability to take reactive measures to save a group member (who didn't see you on your knees as they land a 3k hit), suffers. Plate tanks need a mit or avoid boost (doesnt have to be huge).... IMHO. because Avoid>Mit, do to stuns stifle ect...This is a side effect of game mechanics, that needs to be addressed one way or another.<BR> <BR>Question: How is it considered balanced, when the current gaps in Offensive capabilities (DPS) are so much larger across the fighter classes than the gaps in defensive abilitys (tanking)? Why play a defensive tank atm, when you can come so close to what a defensive tank can achieve, yet attain better utility and vastly better dps, by groupin an offensive orientated fighter?<BR> <BR>Off topic, but kinda pertains so throwing it in:<BR> <BR>King of agro = Paly ..... in all exp group encounters (IMHO). One word (Amends). At master 1, it abosrbes 44% of hate from the person that the (Palys) have it casted on. So when I as a warlock have (Amends) casted on me, it is my primary role is to ensure I am #2 on agro (or near it), behind the MT. 44% of my Hate goes Directly to the paly from me adding to his total hate count. In short I am providing added hate generation to the Paly, by filling my primary role which is DPS. No, palys don't need to be nerfed, its not an agro lock, just a great tool, if used properly. The Guardian have a similar line, but it drops the hate off the person rather than absorbes. Monkeys have a damage proc, that was very well designed to complement their fighting style, combine it with their DPS, they hold agro extremely well. I would argue that making the similar line of guards agro reduction CA be an absoroption CA much like the palys, and not simply dump hate off the recipient. This would go a long ways. <BR> <BR>Closing note: Plate tanks overall need a little miti boost (IMHO) Not much, but a little. Ive grouped with many pajama wearers tanking and tin can bearers wanking. Its pretty clear healers have a hard time keeping up heals on Mit tanks atm, compared to dealing with avoidance tank Damage spikes. If Guards had a nice Self HoT Im sure they would be just as happy as 'A' class that takes higher damage spikes but has a mend to recover from it. /snaps<BR> <BR>Alrighty made this longer than I inteanded...<BR> <BR>Peace~<BR>Message Edited by Darton on 10-15-2005 07:15 AM </DIV> <DIV><BR>Darton - 50th Guardian of Permafrost<BR>Phinny - 57th Warlock of Permafrost</DIV> <DIV>"You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!" <BR>-Monty Python's Holy Grail- <BR></DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=1948" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=1948</A> <- Author,</DIV> <DIV><BR>Some ideas :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>Purge Cry : Instant Cast - Recast 2min - Duration 20sec - Target Caster's group </DIV> <DIV>"A battle cry that removes negatives effects on the guardian 's groupe members,wake them, and give them immunity for a short duration time." </DIV> <DIV>Effect : Group buff that removes all Mez, Stiffle, Stun and Charm statuts on caster's group. Giving Immunity to Mez, Stiffle, Stun, Root , Slow and Charm for the next 20sec.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>Bear's Breath : (can be for the Zerker too) : Instant Cast - Recast (same as Paladin Lay Hand, or Monks Mend) - Duration 1sec - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"A secound breath that repleanish some parts of the warrior's power, sending it back to the battle."</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Caster recovers X% of his power pool.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>The Mountain does not Move : Instant Cast - Recast 30 min - Duration 30sec after Caster Dies - Targert Caster's group</DIV> <DIV>"The will of the Guardian avoid him to die until he knows that his group is safe. When the Guardian dies he resurects and all the Guardian's group is stunned and immune to any damage for a short duration time. The group's encounter loses interest and leaves the battle."</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Group buff. When caster dies he resurects and the caster's group is stunned and immune to any type of damage for 10sec. The group's encouter brakes and leaves the battle field, all NPC are neutral to the caster group for the next 30sec. At the end of the 30sec caster dies and loose 20% of his item's constitutions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>Loyalty to the end : Instant Cast - Recast 1sec - Duration Until Canceled - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"The Guardian faces any danger to fulfill his role"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Caster Buff that gives a 30% bonus to any hates generated by the caster, but consume is health pool over the time by 3% per tick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>Faith in my blade: Instant Cast - Recast 1sec - Duration Until Canceled - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"There is time where the Guardian needs to put his life in his blade"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Caster Buff that raises his parry skill by 50%, but consumes the caster weapon's constitution over the time by 1% per tick.Works only with 2H Weapon or Dual Weild (0,5% each). (Stop and don't work when caster's item is equal or less then 30% of constitution)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>Faith in my armor: Instant Cast - Recast 1sec - Duration Until Canceled - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"There is time where the Guardian needs to put his life in his armors"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Caster Buff that raises his mitigation by 300 and damage the caster's attacker each time they hit him for 50 dmg, but consumes the caster armors's constitution over the time by 0,5% per tick. Works only with Vanguard armors. (Stop and don't work when caster's item is equal or less then 30% of constitution)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>Faith in my shield: Instant Cast - Recast 1sec - Duration Until Canceled - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"There is time where the Guardian needs to put his life in his shield"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Caster Buff that raises his block skill by 50%, but consumes the caster shield's constitution over the time by 1% per tick.Works only with a tower shield.(Stop and don't work when caster's item is equal or less then 30% of constitution)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Those Long Years of Battles : Instant Cast - Recast (same as Ranger invoking arrows) - Duration 1sec - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"Those long years of fights on battles fields give to the Guardian some survival skills"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Replenish 10% of the caster items' constitution.</DIV> <DIV><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Fear my Wrath : Instant Cast - Recast 5min after used - Duration 10sec - Target Caster's Group</DIV> <DIV>"Fear the wrath of a Guardian. When he loses a group member the Guardian shout a battle cry that stun or fear all enemies nearby"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Group buff. When a caster group's member die, all caster's encounter have 50% to be stunned for 10sec, or else they are feared for 10sec.</DIV> <DIV><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> Never give up (can be for zerker too): Instant Cast - Recast 5min - Duration 1sec - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"The Guardian will do anything to avoid being traped in battle"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Target sacrifies 20% of his max health pool to remove Stiffle, Stun, Mezz, Charm, Root, Slow and Charm status on him, and gives him a 20sec immunity to those negatives effects. This art can be used any time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR>Bend Like Steel : Instant Cast - Recast 1sec - Duration Until canceled - Target Caster</DIV> <DIV>"Try to hit a steel bar"</DIV> <DIV>Effect : Caster cannot auto-attack but gains 300 mitigations. When caster block or parry an attack, he counters the attack for 100 dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>Else :</DIV> <DIV>- Too many negative effects on our spells for what we get. I mean, does the others have to loose so much to heal, avoid, ward etc ... them ?</DIV> <DIV>- 3 blocks with the tower is too few, and we loose to many constitution on them, maybe replace it with a duration time and a 10% constitution loose per block.</DIV> <DIV>Message Edited by Tochyao on 10-20-2005 04:02 AM </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And what I did think up:<BR> <BR>Get Away! -> Something like the Guardian Sphere, but, when a mob hits a group member, he is pushed away from that group member, and positioned next to the guardian;<BR> <BR>That Moment in Time -> Another one like the Guardian Sphere, but, when a mob hits a group member, all the encounter(mobs and group members, but the guardian) go into "SLOW MOTION", for X amount of time; (here I mean slow motion as everything slowed, movement, attack, casting ... This way, the guardian have the moment to work his "magic", and regain his footing)<BR> <BR>Slow Bleeding -> A buff that postpone any damage the guardian takes from the Intercept art line(and all the related ones) to the very end of the encounter; (this way the intercepted damage could be best handled)<BR> </DIV> <DIV>Footloose -> Guardian can't be stunned when using Sprint. (So, all hell broke lose, the group won't be able to handle all the adds and whatnot. The guardian call RUN, and, having all the agro, run in an opposite direction. Guardian dies, but group is standing, out of harms way)<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plase, I don't think anyone need to coment/debate in here, about any of this. Copy what you want and make a new thread, so you put your coments there.</DIV> <DIV>If you are going to post here, you will follow this lines: Name for tha CA(just for fun!), description for the CA(in general lines, sure), reason for the CA(if you want to).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you guys.</DIV> <DIV>(This way we keep trying to find something to make with our Guardians. If this isn't what you want for your guardian, please say so in another thread. If you don't want to see guardians gain any of this, please say so in another thread. If you are a dev and are laughting your A** off about our sillyness(SP?), please post here :smileytongue: )</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Wlian on <SPAN class=date_text>10-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:34 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Wlian on <SPAN class=date_text>11-10-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:06 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Wlian on <span class=date_text>11-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:29 AM</span>