Why should I remain a guardian? My faith has gone :( [Archive]

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minionofdeath

10-26-2005, 10:07 AM

When I first rolled my toon back in Nov 04, I read the manual quite extensively and wanted to make the best choice for a toon. I liked to melee and get into the thick of it and after careful consideration rolled a Fighter > Warrior and then the big one, a Guardian. Leveling up with my toon was fun and I always felt a part of the game and a wanted class. At no time did I ever feel my class was overpowered nor lacking in anyway. It was fine the way it was and I had fun. After hitting level 50 I began to raid 5-6 hours minimum per day for months on end. The end game was incredibly fun and rewarding too. Some highlights of mine would be the Bloodline raid and the Froglock raid encounters. These were balls to the wall hard encounters that lasted hours on end. It was fantastic. Due to some personal relationship issues (you know the type lol. it's either me or the game lol), I stepped back from the game for a month. This also happened to be around the time the LU13 went live. Well as luck would have it, the relationship ended anyways lol. So to seek comfort in my time of need, I dusted off my toon and logged her in haha. I tried to stay positive about the changes and soldiered on and leveled to 60. I didn't have fun at all during this time and never felt the warmth I had experienced towards my class when leveling up to 60. Not only was my faith being tested in my class, but other players didn't even want a guard around. I felt like a dunce the entire time playing a toon where everyone was in on a joke I didn't know about. Then it hit me. This class requires more time and energy than pretty much any other class. Unlike Shadowknights, Paladins & Beserkers, we have no plan B. We have nothing else to bring to a group and raids apart from our 3 group buffs and a one or 2 single buffs we can cast on others (mainly so we can ourselves get the effect ie. parry). SKs have incredible dps, but they have evac, and other such useful spells. Paladins have battle rezzes which are invaluable in raid encounters as well as amazing self healing abilities. Beserkers are like the evil twin to guardians yet the difference between the 2 is immense. Their dps is legendary, yet from what I've seen, their ability to tank and take the same amount of dmg a guard would is on par with us. The other 3 heavy wearing fighters are able to tune their characters as dps, defensive tanks if they want to, or the very best players I've seen, achieve both. Guardians are the first class out of all to be left out of raids if they are full and need dps. Whenever an /ooc goes out looking for dps, i don't even bother to reply. Apparently we have some spells and features to our class to protect others, but from what I've see all but 1 or 2 of the dozen or so spells are total junk and have never been cast more than a few times, let alone upgraded. My faith has gone in my class. I'm sorry my fellow guards but I can't keep it up any longer playing this class. I offer nothing to a group or raid unless I'm decked out in full fabled gear. And even then it's only to be a MT or OT. At present very few peeps have a set of T6 fabled but they have a mixture of T5 Fabled, T6 Fabled and T6 Crafted. If my mititation gear isn't up to scratch I'm not included in raids or any other encounters due to not offering anything in the way of dps or other features. So in order to experience the end game and other such cool things, I'm forced to harvest on end or days & raid my hiney off for months. Other classes don't require this kind of energy and time input. Mages, Priests and even scouts if they have a weapon that will hit the mob can be in full treasured outfits and do all there is todo in this game. Regardless of the quality of the player there are long standing biases in this game. Guardians will always be classified as being severely lacking in the dps department. My impression is one of a once great class that has been belitted into the "unsung hero" farce that it is. Guardians gained nothing from this combat change. Our buffs were removed, taunts were removed, combat art spells were removed, our haste was removed, taunts were made resistabled, our avoidance was severely reduced, our shields are useless, our mitigation does not appear to do much at all. The list goes on. Moorguard was totally correct in his "unsung heroes" comment. I've only ever felt like a hero maybe once or twice in this game, but I certainly feel like the constant black sheep to the EQ2 universe. Am I delusional on this? Can I repent and love my class again? <div></div>

Corv

10-26-2005, 10:29 AM

SOE has a long proud history of over-reacting. They almost never nerf or buff by just the right ammount. They overdo it continually. Watching them try achieve balance is like watching a pendulum shoot right past equilibrium position to the other extreme. That pendulum swings both ways however. The guardian class will eventually see some love. It might not be until the next expansion, but eventually it will happen. In the meantime you can still try to enjoy the game even if your character isn't on the good-side of the swing. If you just can't stand it as a Guardian right now you can always reroll as one of the latest fad-classes that will no doubt be nerfed into the ground by the time you reach any significant level. Alternatively, you can take a break from the game and come back for the next expansion, or not at all. The only certain thing is that if you continually dwell on the subject of class balance while playing you'll have very little fun. Whine a bit on the boards just to justify the mod's salaries, forget about what you read here, and then go have fun in game. <div></div>

Raahl

10-27-2005, 12:22 AM

Agreed! I'm extremely unhappy with my guardian. We have posted and posted our issues and even offered suggestion, but nothing has been said about what Sony's doing to fix the guardians. Every patch day I hope to see something. Yet nothing. I've lost all hope that Sony is even considering fixing the guardian class. Message Edited by Raahl on 10-26-2005 04:22 PM

Poochymama

10-27-2005, 01:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> STOP WITH ALL THE LIES ABOUT BERSERKERS. I hate it when people make up stuff that they have never even tested. I parse all the time and have found that one average berserkers do around 10% more dps than guards. With all adept III skills at lvl 55 i strugle to approach the 200 mark. The fact that we do more dps than you guys is made up with you guys having far superior buffs than us. I will compare your buffs to our so that you can see what a difference it is. Guardian Utility Plant - it roots you and lowers your dps capabilities while giving you a massive amount of mitigation for 30sec Tower of Stone - Allows the guardian to block 3 successful hits that do more than 10% of his health while dmging the shield (Yes I know its broken, but it will eventually get fixed) Inflaming Defense - gives you a 50% chance to taunt a mob when ever he hits you with a melee weapon. Steely Conviction - a significant self stamina buff (think its around 35 or something) Wall of Might - increases the guardians defence and has a chance to root oponents Sentry Watch - Allows you to intervene and save an enemy from death if you lose aggro to them, and gives aggro back to you Commanding Aura - Medium 30sec mitigation buff for group Call of Defence - Increases the defence of the guardians group (very usefull 14 def gives like 8% avoidance) Call to War - Increases Slasing, Piercing, and Crushing of the guardians group Guardian Sphere - Allows the guardian to protect the whole group and sometimes take dmg that they would have taken Assauge - Allows the guardian to shield an ally from attack using his avoidance, also increases hate generation Unyielding Vigilance - Allows the guardian to shield an ally from attack and increases the guarians pary skill Sentry - Allows the guardian to protect a group member by absorbing some of the dmg for him Return to Battle - A signigicant group HP buff Berserker Utility Guarded Vehmnence - Allows the berserker to shield an ally by using his avoidance Taunting Defence - gives us a 20% chance to taunt a mob when he hits us with a meele weapon Wall of Rage - decreases our movement speed by like 70% and gives us 14 agility ( which is like .2% avoidance) Chaos - medium 30sec mitigation buff Berserk Cry - Increases Strength Blood Boil - slightly more hp per tick for the berserker Destructive Rage - Slightly more hp per tick for the group Subdued Rage - lowers the berserkers attack and increases defense for 30sec So that comes out to 8 buffs for the Berserker and 14 buffs for the Guardian Also note that the HTL spell for the berserker has a 20% chance of procing while the guardian form has a 50% chance of Procing </BLOCKQUOTE> Message Edited by Poochymama p on 10-26-2005 02:15 PM Message Edited by Poochymama p on 10-26-2005 02:15 PMMessage Edited by Poochymama p on 10-26-2005 02:16 PM

Thanous

10-27-2005, 02:42 AM

Give it a couple more days please. I asked Raijinn to look into things for us to see if anything is coming down the pipe he can tell us, as well as to warn him that attitudes are going back down hill at this board. Lets see if there's any info he can shake loose from the tree. He is new at his position and has been very busy. At the very least, even if no changes come from this, at least he gave it an honest attempt and temporarly restored some order to this community.

Aven Elonis

10-27-2005, 02:52 AM

Guardian Utility Plant - it roots you and lowers your dps capabilities while giving you a massive amount of mitigation for 30sec (only 58 don't have yet, so don't have this, but I'll guess 30 sec every 3 min or so as it is the upgrade to Anchor, and roots us which bites) Tower of Stone - Allows the guardian to block 3 successful hits that do more than 10% of his health while dmging the shield (Yes I know its broken, but it will eventually get fixed) (so broken and as likely to get fixed as the class of Gaurdians is to) Inflaming Defense - gives you a 50% chance to taunt a mob when ever he hits you with a melee weapon. (yeah, key here is hit us, and this assumes it is isn't resisted. That is to say, if they can hit us, odds are they can resist too. Oh don't forgot we get to be rooted too.) Steely Conviction - a significant self stamina buff (think its around 35 or something) (Adept III +46 STA, STA goes from 154 to 200 for me and adds all of 225 hp for 15 min. Yup that's going to save my butt on those 3K hits) Wall of Might - increases the guardians defence and has a chance to root oponents (Slows and roots me, and has a 15% on a hit by me to root target. I so don't get the point of this one. How does rooting them help hold aggro or get back if I lose it. Besides I'm already rooted by Imflaming Defense) Sentry Watch - Allows you to intervene and save an enemy from death if you lose aggro to them, and gives aggro back to you (Haven't seen this one yet, no comment) Commanding Aura - Medium 30sec mitigation buff for group (at Adept I raises by Mig by 7.4% at 58, 30 sec every 1.5 min, not bad, but useless for Spell/Combat Art damage) Call of Defence - Increases the defence of the guardians group (very usefull 14 def gives like 8% avoidance) (Master II give 19.4 defense increase, it raise my avoidance by 4.8 %. May help with AOE spells, not sure if avoidance helps there or not. But if I'm doing my job, that is holding aggro, then others don't need mig or avoid really.) Call to War - Increases Slasing, Piercing, and Crushing of the guardians group (App 4 raises by attack by 20, and I am sure the extra melee DPS from the healers and wizards in my group will quickly make short work of any foe. Need to get a pearl for this one to see what Adept III is like.) Guardian Sphere - Allows the guardian to protect the whole group and sometimes take dmg that they would have taken (51% chance to get all physical damage on everyone in group, Guardian takes 94%, they that 0%. Again if I'm holding aggro as I should, this never should come into play. Now I believe this spell may also be broken, because the damage I take for my group mate doesn't seem to get migitated by my Mig. Can you say dead guardian? I tried this spell exactly twice and died very fast with it.) Assauge - Allows the guardian to shield an ally from attack using his avoidance, also increases hate generation (Adept 1, 35% chance that the person I cast this one, can use my poor avoidance. Spell decreases hate generation of the one that I cast it on. No hate generation for me there. Again if I'm doing my job in holding aggro, they should never need an extra avoidance check.) Unyielding Vigilance - Allows the guardian to shield an ally from attack and increases the guarians pary skill (Viligance (not Unyielding Will), raises my parry by 8.3 at adept 1, gives the person I use it on a 33% chance to use my sad avoidance. Again if I'm doing my job in holding aggro, they should never need an extra avoidance check.) Sentry - Allows the guardian to protect a group member by absorbing some of the dmg for him (See Guardian Sphere, same basic issue with the entire Intervene line of spells which seem to be universally worthless) Return to Battle - A signigicant group HP buff (Master I, an extra 511 hp, nice buff, helpful on AOE damage, but again if I'm holding aggro, damage to others should not be happening. And if AOE damage is happening the resists of people will be way more important and an extra 500 hp in any raid.) Hope the above info assists you further in whatever case you are trying to make. Aven Elonis 58 Guardian, Steamfont, Tempest

Corv

10-27-2005, 03:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> STOP WITH ALL THE LIES ABOUT BERSERKERS. I hate it when people make up stuff that they have never even tested. I parse all the time and have found that one average berserkers do around 10% more dps than guards. With all adept III skills at lvl 55 i strugle to approach the 200 mark.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> My parses have found the difference to be quite a bit more than 10% over time unless you're fighting only single mobs continually. Zerkers can also hit burst DPS spikes in excess of 1200 at level 58+. Guardians spikes at 60 aren't even one quarter of that. Honestly, who's lying here?

Gaige

10-27-2005, 03:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aven Elonis wrote: Inflaming Defense - gives you a 50% chance to taunt a mob when ever he hits you with a melee weapon. (yeah, key here is hit us, and this assumes it is isn't resisted. That is to say, if they can hit us, odds are they can resist too. Oh don't forgot we get to be rooted too.) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> While I understand the sentiment just for comparison the monk variety requires us to hit the target for it to be successful.

EvilIguana9

10-27-2005, 04:55 AM

IRT OP Just to clear up some misconceptions about paladins. We have no real purpose on a raid anymore. Everything we can do could be done better by filling the spot with another priest or a DPS. Our heals use up mana like crazy, our wards are not big enough to make a noticable dent in epic mob damage given the 24 sec recast. Our DPS is about where guardian DPS is with a bit of a boost on undead targets. Our rez is on a 1 min recast, has 0 range, and requires us to stand still right on the corpse until the receiptient clicks ok, else the mana is wasted. We cannot cast while taking significant damage, we get interupted a LOT even when fighting solo mobs. Like guardians, we have no way of mitigating or resisting secondary effects on combat arts that check melee avoidance, or in other words WE SPEND A LOT OF OUR LIVES STUNNED. Our stun arts are actually pretty nice, but they don't work on epic mobs at all so no help there. Basically I can't think of any reason to want a pally on a raid other than there being nobody else to fill the slot. At least guardians get ONE slot on the hard raids still.

Corv

10-27-2005, 04:56 AM

<blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Aven Elonis wrote: Inflaming Defense - gives you a 50% chance to taunt a mob when ever he hits you with a melee weapon. (yeah, key here is hit us, and this assumes it is isn't resisted. That is to say, if they can hit us, odds are they can resist too. Oh don't forgot we get to be rooted too.) <hr> </blockquote> While I understand the sentiment just for comparison the monk variety requires us to hit the target for it to be successful. <hr></blockquote>Use the right weapons, haste items, and buffs and you'll swing a *lot* faster than almost any mob in the game. I honestly can't say if that completely off-sets the misses against higher level mobs, but it definately mitigates the disadvantage by a substantial ammount unless you're too low level or using inadequate weapons and can't hit at all. .

Styk

10-27-2005, 05:33 AM

Lol paladin agro sieve is very powerful ( MT for raid type powerful ) , group heal on pallies is worth using now ( put in nuker group for heals ) pally group agro sieve is effective ( again put in nuker group for raids ) Thats 3 very good reasons to have pallies on raids..... Dont play dumb and say pallies dont have a roll in raids

Poochymama

10-27-2005, 05:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Corvan wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> STOP WITH ALL THE LIES ABOUT BERSERKERS. I hate it when people make up stuff that they have never even tested. I parse all the time and have found that one average berserkers do around 10% more dps than guards. With all adept III skills at lvl 55 i strugle to approach the 200 mark.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> My parses have found the difference to be quite a bit more than 10% over time unless you're fighting only single mobs continually. Zerkers can also hit burst DPS spikes in excess of 1200 at level 58+. Guardians spikes at 60 aren't even one quarter of that. Honestly, who's lying here? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Aye thats true, but thats burst dps and can only be used every 3 min, BTW that skill that allows us to do that also waste all of our power so definately not sustained dps.

Poochymama

10-27-2005, 05:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aven Elonis wrote: Guardian Utility Plant - it roots you and lowers your dps capabilities while giving you a massive amount of mitigation for 30sec (only 58 don't have yet, so don't have this, but I'll guess 30 sec every 3 min or so as it is the upgrade to Anchor, and roots us which bites) Tower of Stone - Allows the guardian to block 3 successful hits that do more than 10% of his health while dmging the shield (Yes I know its broken, but it will eventually get fixed) (so broken and as likely to get fixed as the class of Gaurdians is to) Inflaming Defense - gives you a 50% chance to taunt a mob when ever he hits you with a melee weapon. (yeah, key here is hit us, and this assumes it is isn't resisted. That is to say, if they can hit us, odds are they can resist too. Oh don't forgot we get to be rooted too.) Steely Conviction - a significant self stamina buff (think its around 35 or something) (Adept III +46 STA, STA goes from 154 to 200 for me and adds all of 225 hp for 15 min. Yup that's going to save my butt on those 3K hits) Wall of Might - increases the guardians defence and has a chance to root oponents (Slows and roots me, and has a 15% on a hit by me to root target. I so don't get the point of this one. How does rooting them help hold aggro or get back if I lose it. Besides I'm already rooted by Imflaming Defense) Sentry Watch - Allows you to intervene and save an enemy from death if you lose aggro to them, and gives aggro back to you (Haven't seen this one yet, no comment) Commanding Aura - Medium 30sec mitigation buff for group (at Adept I raises by Mig by 7.4% at 58, 30 sec every 1.5 min, not bad, but useless for Spell/Combat Art damage) Call of Defence - Increases the defence of the guardians group (very usefull 14 def gives like 8% avoidance) (Master II give 19.4 defense increase, it raise my avoidance by 4.8 %. May help with AOE spells, not sure if avoidance helps there or not. But if I'm doing my job, that is holding aggro, then others don't need mig or avoid really.) Call to War - Increases Slasing, Piercing, and Crushing of the guardians group (App 4 raises by attack by 20, and I am sure the extra melee DPS from the healers and wizards in my group will quickly make short work of any foe. Need to get a pearl for this one to see what Adept III is like.) Guardian Sphere - Allows the guardian to protect the whole group and sometimes take dmg that they would have taken (51% chance to get all physical damage on everyone in group, Guardian takes 94%, they that 0%. Again if I'm holding aggro as I should, this never should come into play. Now I believe this spell may also be broken, because the damage I take for my group mate doesn't seem to get migitated by my Mig. Can you say dead guardian? I tried this spell exactly twice and died very fast with it.) Assauge - Allows the guardian to shield an ally from attack using his avoidance, also increases hate generation (Adept 1, 35% chance that the person I cast this one, can use my poor avoidance. Spell decreases hate generation of the one that I cast it on. No hate generation for me there. Again if I'm doing my job in holding aggro, they should never need an extra avoidance check.) Unyielding Vigilance - Allows the guardian to shield an ally from attack and increases the guarians pary skill (Viligance (not Unyielding Will), raises my parry by 8.3 at adept 1, gives the person I use it on a 33% chance to use my sad avoidance. Again if I'm doing my job in holding aggro, they should never need an extra avoidance check.) Sentry - Allows the guardian to protect a group member by absorbing some of the dmg for him (See Guardian Sphere, same basic issue with the entire Intervene line of spells which seem to be universally worthless) Return to Battle - A signigicant group HP buff (Master I, an extra 511 hp, nice buff, helpful on AOE damage, but again if I'm holding aggro, damage to others should not be happening. And if AOE damage is happening the resists of people will be way more important and an extra 500 hp in any raid.) Hope the above info assists you further in whatever case you are trying to make. Aven Elonis 58 Guardian, Steamfont, Tempest <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Thx Aven I really couldnt give the details as my guardian is very low lvl and doesnt have the skills. Your Guardian Sphere sounds like our vision of maddness. It lets us get auto rezzed when we die but only gives us 1% hp. Basically means you get to die twice instead of once.

Grumm

10-27-2005, 06:52 AM

Inflaming Defence, probably our best spell as a guardian, 50% chance to proc a taunt when a mob hits the guardian, this spell suffers from the same "streakyness" of avoidance with the monks. 50% chance, and a resist check on the one that acually goes off equals a lot of group mob scatters with no time to pick up the pieces prettty often. resists are evil <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Steve11418

10-27-2005, 08:00 AM

<blockquote><hr>Styker wrote: Lol paladin agro sieve is very powerful ( MT for raid type powerful ) , group heal on pallies is worth using now ( put in nuker group for heals ) pally group agro sieve is effective ( again put in nuker group for raids ) Thats 3 very good reasons to have pallies on raids..... Dont play dumb and say pallies dont have a roll in raids <hr></blockquote> Lets not forget that your mana stone damage is absorbed by your ward, your ward is greater than the damage the mana stone does and the power return you get from the manastone is greater than the ward costs to cast. or has that been "fixed"

Gaige

10-27-2005, 08:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Corvan wrote: Use the right weapons, haste items, and buffs and you'll swing a *lot* faster than almost any mob in the game. I honestly can't say if that completely off-sets the misses against higher level mobs, but it definately mitigates the disadvantage by a substantial ammount unless you're too low level or using inadequate weapons and can't hit at all. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> True. I never meant to say its inferior to yours, just different. The main thing I was trying to point out is that ours works on one mob at a time, not all mobs. Whereas I believe yours works on any mobs at all, in the current encounter or not. I would *assume* that the reason wards and resists aren't taken into account for yours is because it has the potential to hold aggro on so many mobs/encounters. I'm not saying that's working as intended or plays out as designed, just the mentality I saw behind it.

EvilIguana9

10-27-2005, 04:37 PM

I beg to differ. Another healer could fill the role of group healing, and I while I'm not a big raider I still have yet to see one where the pally aggro sieves are pivotal to success. I don't see why you would choose a pally over an extra priest.

Rousso

10-27-2005, 10:38 PM

53 'zerker here. The LU14 shift that changed the avoidance/mitigation equation really shafted the plate classes. I went from well able to handle most tanking situations to a third class tank. Bruisers/monks with their high avoidance are currently the best tanks in the game + the best DPS in the game. 'zerkers can do decent DPS in bursts, but over long encounters they really struggle and simply dont fare so well. The mitigation nerf really hurt both 'zerkers and guardians, but guardians most of all. I have talked with a lot of Guardians who are very depressed and simply don't play much anymore. Guardians really need some love from the devs if they are not to become irrelevant. I would say, however, stick it out. Roll a bruiser alt and feel the love for now. Remember the nerf bat swings frequently and (apparently) randomly, so no telling what class soe will destroy next.

Prufro

10-27-2005, 11:39 PM

<blockquote><hr>Rousso wrote: 53 'zerker here. The LU14 shift that changed the avoidance/mitigation equation really shafted the plate classes. I went from well able to handle most tanking situations to a third class tank. Bruisers/monks with their high avoidance are currently the best tanks in the game + the best DPS in the game. 'zerkers can do decent DPS in bursts, but over long encounters they really struggle and simply dont fare so well. The mitigation nerf really hurt both 'zerkers and guardians, but guardians most of all. I have talked with a lot of Guardians who are very depressed and simply don't play much anymore. Guardians really need some love from the devs if they are not to become irrelevant. I would say, however, stick it out. Roll a bruiser alt and feel the love for now. Remember the nerf bat swings frequently and (apparently) randomly, so no telling what class soe will destroy next. <hr></blockquote>I'm serious about this, if you or any of your friends are getting depressed about changes to a video game you guys need to step back and take a break for a bit. Cancel your account and play a single player game for a month or so, then come back. It's just a game, and guardians can still tank. We're not the best and only tank people want like before, but we can still tank.

Gaige

10-28-2005, 12:17 AM

Brawlers are no where near close to the best DPS in the game.

Veshtan

10-28-2005, 12:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote: Brawlers are no where near close to the best DPS in the game. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Indeed, my wife plays a wizard...and you should see her go. I think he's just pointing out that brawlers have more DPS then plate tanks. I think they should. The streaky nature of avoidance means they need to kill their mob faster to avoid a bad streak. That being said, i think Guards (and perhaps other plate tanks) need a DPS boost so it doesn't take forever and a day to solo a mob.

Shizzirri

10-28-2005, 12:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prufrock wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm serious about this, if you or any of your friends are getting depressed about changes to a video game you guys need to step back and take a break for a bit. Cancel your account and play a single player game for a month or so, then come back. It's just a game, and guardians can still tank. We're not the best and only tank people want like before, but we can still tank. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> People usually play games like this because it gives them a sense of greatness that they probably don't get in real life so when you take their class which previously could tank anything any time any where with the proper buffs and pretty much be goods, then reduce them to virtually nothing, then ya if this game is your life (and to a large population of the game it is) its like getting kicked in the nuts repeatedly and then forced up and told, ok now tank like you did before. People play this game to have fun and because of the changes a lot of guardians don't feel the game isn't fun anymore because the class doesn't serve any special purpose other than solely tanking, they can't dps, they can't heal, they can't provide group utility (well they can but it sucks apparently). Ya I'll admit I've been patient with these combat changes but a couple of raids recently have quickly made me question this game, I'm still remaining optimistic but its only a matter of time before people look at guardians and go why bother when a zerker can tank just as well and get aggro 5x faster/better Message Edited by Shizzirri on 10-27-2005 02:58 PM

Poochymama

10-28-2005, 03:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shizzirri wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prufrock wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm serious about this, if you or any of your friends are getting depressed about changes to a video game you guys need to step back and take a break for a bit. Cancel your account and play a single player game for a month or so, then come back. It's just a game, and guardians can still tank. We're not the best and only tank people want like before, but we can still tank. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> People usually play games like this because it gives them a sense of greatness that they probably don't get in real life so when you take their class which previously could tank anything any time any where with the proper buffs and pretty much be goods, then reduce them to virtually nothing, then ya if this game is your life (and to a large population of the game it is) its like getting kicked in the nuts repeatedly and then forced up and told, ok now tank like you did before. People play this game to have fun and because of the changes a lot of guardians don't feel the game isn't fun anymore because the class doesn't serve any special purpose other than solely tanking, they can't dps, they can't heal, they can't provide group utility (well they can but it sucks apparently). Ya I'll admit I've been patient with these combat changes but a couple of raids recently have quickly made me question this game, I'm still remaining optimistic but its only a matter of time before people look at guardians and go why bother when a zerker can tank just as well and get aggro 5x faster/better This is totally not true at all. Guards actually hold aggro much better than Zerkers atm. All your taunts generate 30% more hate than ours and your HTL has a 50% chance to proc hate where as zerkers is 20%(BTW the Guardian HTL also procs twice as much hate as zerkers) Zerkers 10% DPS advantage does not make up for Guards 30% extra hate per taunt combined with their HTL spell being 5x as powerful. I would have to say that on average Guardians hold aggro about 60% better than zerkers. In fact I would say zerkers are currently the worst at holding aggro atm. No where near the ability of guards. Message Edited by Shizzirri on 10-27-2005 02:58 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Message Edited by Poochymama p on 10-27-2005 04:42 PM

Lyrus

10-28-2005, 08:17 PM

<blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Corvan wrote: Use the right weapons, haste items, and buffs and you'll swing a *lot* faster than almost any mob in the game. I honestly can't say if that completely off-sets the misses against higher level mobs, but it definately mitigates the disadvantage by a substantial ammount unless you're too low level or using inadequate weapons and can't hit at all. <hr> </blockquote> True. I never meant to say its inferior to yours, just different. The main thing I was trying to point out is that ours works on one mob at a time, not all mobs. Whereas I believe yours works on any mobs at all, in the current encounter or not. I would *assume* that the reason wards and resists aren't taken into account for yours is because it has the potential to hold aggro on so many mobs/encounters. I'm not saying that's working as intended or plays out as designed, just the mentality I saw behind it. <hr></blockquote>The monk version has the potential to hold agro on large number of mobs in encounter and out, mainly through riposte damage, which can be augmented by tsunami, which still counts as a melee attack. Assuming that is you keep all the mobs in front of you before you hit Tsunami so you can riposte 100% of the attacks on you for the duration. Lyrus Permafrost<div></div>