How many Guardians still playing?

[Tobann]

I think it would be interesting to see statistics on how many Guardians are logging in now. I re rolled a Ranger and Im seeing a lot of old Guardians on the boards over there. Dont know if SOE keeps stats on it but it may tell a story. Tobann 50  Guardian Buaf 21 Ranger. <div></div>

[Tilane]

<DIV>in my guild we had 3 gaurdians before the revamp , and after the revamp we still have the same 3 + a new one , and they are still tanking everything and almost lvl 60 </DIV>

[Veshtan]

<DIV>I have the exact opposite results as Tilane.  We had 3 Guardians pre-LU13 and now one has quit, the other started a Swashy and never plays his Guardian and i'm the only one that is soldiering on.  Mostly because i don't feel like starting over again.  If something isn't done soon, i'll likely be saying adios to the game as well /shrug.</DIV>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

Still playing my guardian main toon.  Don't log on quite as often as I used to but I recently got this girlfriend thing that bites into my EQII fun.  Oh but what a lovely bite it is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Raahl]

<P>I made 37 with my ranger.</P> <P>Oh and my guardian made it to level 30 Weapon Smith.  I did make 2 trips through harclave with him though</P>

[Shizzirri]

<P>Still sticking with my guardian despite all the negativity...</P> <P>Tryed my monk for a couple of days and didn't like it, same with my warlock.</P>

[Tomanak]

Dust him off and group when asked by Guild mates. Otherwise Im playing my Warlock. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>She cant take a hit like my Guard can, but then again he cant do 1300+ dmg a second either. </DIV>

[Burningho]

I'm the only guardian in my guild, but one of many fighters.  I stopped grouping with my guardian and only harvested with him long enough to get him T6 armor and weapons.  I'm back playing him whenever my guild needs me, but I'm hoping for some changes soon. 

[Zy]

<DIV>I started EQ2 the day it came out. I tried several classes but eventually made a Guardian my main because my G/F wanted to play a healer class. We took a several months off before the infamous Live Update. I was mid 20's then. We recently started back playing, as a few of my friends/guildies from EQ1 wanted to try EQ2 and called me up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont have alot of experience raiding in EQ2 yet, but I can see where the more experienced guardians are coming from, even in my 30s. As for now, Im still playing my Guardian, as we have a newly formed guild and I have a steady group of friends that know what they are doing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im having a blast, but as I said, I can see where the other guardians are coming from, with the taunt problem and the lack of uniqueness with our class</DIV>

[Allaanon]

<DIV>Rerolled a ranger as well.</DIV>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>i am still playing my guardian cause im high level 51 and i am not rerolling after 51 level ups, almost 52.  I do notice these dumb things like monks pulling aggro, but i think its an issue that monks are just [Removed for Content] and do it on purpose so they can hear us whine about them pulling. Quite frankly im sick and tired of it, and tired of this guardian nerf.</DIV>

[Suite]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tobann wrote:<BR>I think it would be interesting to see statistics on how many Guardians are logging in now. I re rolled a Ranger and Im seeing a lot of old Guardians on the boards over there. Dont know if SOE keeps stats on it but it may tell a story.<BR><BR>Tobann 50  Guardian<BR>Buaf 21 Ranger.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2>Unfortunately, I didn't keep any numbers before LU13 so I don't know how they would compare on my server. However, among my new and old guild members, most of the guardians have retired. Our guardian guild leader is playing his monk and swashy instead of his guardian and templar. Our paladins also quit in favor of other classes (scouts in both cases). My former guild leader, also a guardian, quit his guardian and is leveling up a paladin.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2>At LU13 my guardian was around level 30 or so, and I've kept playing her. I think she does just fine and, because my main was a templar, I probably have above-average tanking skills due to playing a healer for so many years. I plan to keep playing her but may well make one of my scouts or my warden my main eventually. I've played so little in the past several weeks that I can't really say what I'll do.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2>It appears to me that, among a small number of guardians in my former and current guilds, the guardians aren't happy. What's also kind of funny is that all changed their surnames to reflect their displeasure. Their new names are names like "Nerfedtohell" and "Mediocre" and "Onlyaverage" and such. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcccc size=2>Suite</FONT></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2523/tizzy038ec.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tobann]

Neat idea, I may log on my Guardian just to change my surname as well. Tobann 50 Guardian <div></div>

[Ladicav]

<P>My guild has not recruited any new Guardians since LU13, of the 7 we had, 5 of those either stopped playing EQ2 totally or retired their Guardians and started other classes and made them their mains. None of the existing members seem to have created any Guardian alts either. Basically there are only 2 of us left that play Guardian as a main, and I am considering starting and playing an alt until such time Guardians get looked at or the alt reaches 60.</P> <P>So no, I would not call this a good rate of retention of Guardians</P>

[Colossaltitan]

The sig explains it all really *Updated today <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />*<BR>But.. Quit a guardian rolled a bruiser, now lvl50 bruiser nearly 51.

[Drulak]

<P>Playing a Monk now and it is much more fun than the Guard ever was.  just a shame with all the utility and DPS , that he can tank as well as a guard too.</P> <P>I log on guard from time to time for Nostalgia , guild groups etc. But EQ2 longevity there is not , as a guard.</P> <P></P>

[Hirski1]

Of course i play Guardian still.i did´nt found any reason why i should to stop playing Guard and start to play new class character.Actualy i love now more play my class than before,because tanking is much more challengin.T5 Raid mobs was mostly too easy so T6 mobs makes game more indresting/challengin of course SOE have to do some changes raid loots,but i belive "softly good comes".Sincerly Oldpainless Finnish Meath shield

[skyeandang]

<P></P> <P>I WOULD be playing, but with the whole ATI VPU Recover Issue, I've suspended my account until ATI or Sony comes out with a fix, or when I pick up an Nvidia video card.</P> <P>I really didn't like that changes, but I'm not willing to regrind a primary character right now. If the video card issue is resolved, I'll probably run up the guardian just so I can see some of the DoF expansion.</P>

[Grey-Cat]

<span><blockquote><hr>Veshtan wrote:<div>I have the exact opposite results as Tilane.  We had 3 Guardians pre-LU13 and now one has quit, the other started a Swashy and never plays his Guardian and i'm the only one that is soldiering on.  Mostly because i don't feel like starting over again.  If something isn't done soon, i'll likely be saying adios to the game as well /shrug.</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">  Thats exactly what happened in my guild. 3 guards before, one quit, I rerolled a swashie, and one still plays their guard occasionally but it isn't thier main.</font></span><p></p>

[restinpea]

<P></P> <P>Last Guardian in my guild : me. </P> <P>Oh sorry , there one else but he don t log any more, cause he s bored by soloing. I am about to stop too.</P>

[Nemi]

<P></P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> skyeandangus wrote:<BR> <P></P> <P>I WOULD be playing, but with the whole ATI VPU Recover Issue, I've suspended my account until ATI or Sony comes out with a fix, or when I pick up an Nvidia video card.</P> <P>I really didn't like that changes, but I'm not willing to regrind a primary character right now. If the video card issue is resolved, I'll probably run up the guardian just so I can see some of the DoF expansion.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Uninstall and reinstall the older version, worked for me</FONT></P>

[Kairo]

<P></P> <P>My Guardian is parked at level 52, but made 46 with my Dirge.</P> <P> </P> <P>The other Guardian in my guild is still playing but started a Wizard alt and he's playing it much more than his Guardian.</P> <P> </P> <P>I started my Guardian back in November and i stopped playing it after DoF, the main problem for me is quite simple: playing a Guardian at the moment is nof fun.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Tro]

<P></P> <P></P> <P>I actually cancelled both my accounts.. My wife (50 Templar) was not happy with her "New" character either but after three weeks was unable to find another game we liked. Some of our Guildmates from EQ1 came over to EQ2 so we started playing again.. Started a guild..</P> <P>Now, I (50 Guard) am getting use to playing my character and the wife is also getting use to hers.. Am I happy with the changes, nope.. but making the best of it. After seeing all the utility the other fighters have I am hoping we get something soon..  We will see..</P><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class=date_text>10-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:45 AM</span>

[Prufro]

<p></p><span><blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:<p></p> <p></p> <p>I actually cancelled both my accounts.. My wife (50 Templar) was not happy with her "New" character either but after three weeks was unable to find another game we liked. </p><hr></blockquote>This is the ultimate problem, and what i believe is the main reason SOE is able to go so long without making any changes... there are no alternatives right now.  The style of this MMO does not have a competitor in the current market. I guarantee you when a competitor to this game is released and soe pulls another bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] move like this to whatever class it is, that person will think of the other game, give it a try, and probably stick with it. edit: to explain, i don't agree with changing classes so much.  i didn't agree with many changes done with swg throughout the course of the game, especially the combat upgrade, and i don't agree with this combat upgrade, or how different every class is.  This response was not in direct relation to guardians, but in relation to changing all classes.  to me if a game is designed well from the beginning, sweeping changes like this should not be necessary.  On the contrary, it appears to happen to every MMO (except ffxi... ahh, ffxi, an incredibly well designed game) so i'm willing to accept it.  Especially since i find myself enjoying the game just as much, if not more, than before.</span><p></p><p>Message Edited by Prufrock on <span class=date_text>10-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:41 AM</span>

[lazlo1]

Well after a lot of consideration I have decided to cancel my accounts. The ruin of my guardian was the driving force. I play games to have fun, not feel cheated. I also raided for a couple months before DoF came out. Now everything I worked for is junk compared to T6 stuff. So whats the point of raiding if every expansion you can harvest better gear in a few nights? The sad part is I was looking forward to playing EQ2 for several years. I played EQ1 for 4-5 years. I played a bruiser up to late 30s and was having a pretty good time. But after some reflection I felt that I should try out another game.  I mean if i am gona play up a new char why not try something new ?  So later eveyone, I will keep an eye on the forum and hope guardians are thrown a bone. I doubt it will happen. I am expressing my option of what SOE did to my char the only way that counts  Some RL friends of mine are quiiting with me so thats 5 accounts.  FYI all my stuff is attuned, so you cant have it  ! anyway later everyone. <p></p>

[Szy]

<P>My guild had like 7 or 8 guards running around.   I have retired mine from adventuring because he is extreamly boring to play.   I think only our raid MT is the only guard that regularly logs in and plays, he is 59 or 60 now... th others dont play so much or have alts of their own.  I have rolled a conjuror and absolutly love it. Even if SOE does somethin with guardians its very unlikely ill return to him as a main.  Unfortunate, i really liked to play My guardian since release.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>szydd</P> <P></P>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P></P> <P></P> <P>Level 56 Made an attempt at tolerating the revamp and the nerf to Guards, but I just cant do it anymore.  All the countless problems in the game are just showing me and a lot of others just how badly SOE is running this game.  They are taking it 90mph into the ground. </P> <P> </P> <P>For an example of what Im talking about, our guild decided for fun to go and try some of the old world content and get some fun lewt to sell, and some guild Exp.  We killed a couple of the T5 contesteds easily enough with 2-3grps of level 55-60's.  I might add that we were unabled to do mobs like Vox and Vazguk before last week when they supposedly "fixed" the old world mobs, so we were starting to perk up, kinda pleasently surprised that these mobs were once again doable by us.</P> <P> </P> <P>Then we came to SOTL...a zone we had little trouble blowing thrue at level 50.  With 23 people all levels 55+ we couldnt even come close to killing the Watcher.  It was absurd, an AOE stun that we just couldnt manage to avoid.  We tried avoiding it by keeping some people by venekor while we were tanking it at the base of the pyramid he stands on and running in to heal and do damage before running out.  No good the stun was hittin people all the way back there...obviously this mob that we took down at 50 easily is next to impossible at 55-60. </P> <P> </P> <P>So with that miserable failure, we decided we'd try Zalak, even tho we did manage to drop Zalak, we wiped twice before he died.  With all our healers usings GeBs, Prismatics, and Rings of the Nightblood...they were running out of power easily before Zalak was at 50percent.  Our Guardian tank (ME) is in full cobalt(thanks to making T5 fabled worthless) and every single CA, Tuant, and Buff Adept 3. With 6 healers of this level, it should have been overkill against a supposedly level 50 mob, but alas that is not so.  Again not saying this content should be trivial but it shouldnt be near impossible for us at 55+, I cant imagine how it will be for guilds that are just hitting 50 and trying to experience the t5 raid content for the first time...It will be impossible for them.</P> <P> </P> <P>Then there is the fact that the +defense buff that I got at 56 does almost nothing.  Not sure of how the caps work and all that, but the +defense buff I got at like level 51 or 52 gives the same exact amount of avoidance the new one gives.  What a waste of an upgrade...</P> <P> </P> <P>Theres also the lewt tables on T6 fabled...and the mitigation values for tnks...and the sheild factors of kite and tower...and the fact brawlers get to DW and tank as well as me using a huge sheild and a 1hander...and that for some reason monks and bruisers can "tank" and sheild their groups by "avoiding" attacks...also caps on stats are sooo easy to reach, in t6 legendary with adept 3 raid buffs on me I can reach the 4200 (80percent) mitigation cap easily.  Where is my motivation to get better gear? or to raid harder mobs? </P> <P> </P> <P>This game has turned into a serious dissapointment and I wish I could get a refund for a years worth of wasted time and money on leveling up my toon this far...</P> <P> </P> <P>Cove</P><p>Message Edited by TanRaistlyn on <span class=date_text>10-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:29 AM</span>

[Dart]

<P>Level 50 Guardian shelfed since pre LU13 (saw this crap comming) so worked on an alt, my Walrock now my main. My guild lost their MT.</P> <P>Fact Paly is king of agro not guardian </P> <P>Fact, Paly/Zerk has been tanking for our raids since LU13, not one raid has been tanked by a Gaurdian</P> <P>Fact we had 5 guardians plus, pre lu13, now we have on part timer that plays in small family/friend groups only. Shows up for raids to DPS and Die with his uber protection line.</P> <P>My Opinion: Guardians are near the worst at holding agro, as a mit tank get stunned and stifled more than any avoidance tank, Guardians require to be hit when stuned to generate agro (doesnt work through wards). So all this crap about guardians being best tank in multi group encounters is false. I would say Paly (amends)>Zerker(AE dps)>Bruiser>(Hate proc)>Guardian (most taunt lines) but this requires you to not be stuned, and that is if their taunts arnt resisted right at the start of the fight.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>To all those that say tanking is balanced right now, I have to just laugh. As a 57 Warlock I will tell you (IMHO) guardians need work. It will be very interesting to see if the fix to guardians are in the form of a nerf to other 'tank' classes. I wonder if those rosey glasses will still be on when/if that should occure, gaige/nemi? </P> <P>/rant off, somtimes i cant just sit idle and watch other classes come here to only derail threads that were inteanded to be constructive.</P>

[sylvo]

Account cancelled and EQ2 uninstalled. I know another Guardian who stopped also and a hell of a lot of ex guildmates. It wasn't JUST that the Guardian wasn't fun anymore I just found that the way the whole game played after LU13 seemed completely different, even for my alts. I dont like the way the archetype system works out resulting in seemingly less diversity rather than more. I dont like the tier system for spells and equipment meaning the slate gets wiped clean every 10/15 levels. I dont like the way non raid item drops are almost always sub-par so that there is never any competition so as to try and encourage a "healthy" tradeskill market. I dont like the way there is 0 visual diversity. Apart from that its been a blast <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No knowing if they will be better or not, but will just have to wait for d&d online and vanguard. <p></p>

[Ironmeow]

<P>i was also in a watcher/ zalak raid and we failed on both raids, well the tank revived outside of the zone on both locking himself out, but we did try two attempts on th watcher and failed on both. We were around 50-55's and just couldn't do it. The tank was 55 and only lasted like 5 seconds against the watcher while everyone was stunned. Zalak was worst, all24 ppl lasted about 10 seconds.</P> <P>My guess is that stupid soe decided to make raids more friendly to the other tank fighters. IE: watcher stuns so use a monk who cant get stunned, or crush resist for zalak, as i got hit for 3.5k crushing damage, he is immune to slashing too. The raid mobs definately are more near impossible to kill.</P> <P></P>

[boucani]

<P>I play my guard from time to time, mostly to harvest or to help guildies, but honestly, i lost my will to keep him leveling.  Now, I mainly play with my Illusionist.  In my guild, lots of guards have stopped playing.  I really regret to have chosen a guardian as main toon.  If only I had known what would come from SOE.  I also been back to play CoH.</P> <P>Rustan on Lavastorm</P> <P></P>

[Raahl]

<P></P> <P>Update - My guardian made it to 34 weapon smith yesterday.   I should hang up my armor and get some of those fancy clothes.</P> <P> </P> <P>Though my defensive buff is decent at keeping the forge damage down!</P> <P> </P> <P></P><p>Message Edited by Raahl on <span class=date_text>10-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:07 AM</span>

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <P></P> <P>Update - My guardian made it to 34 weapon smith yesterday.   I should hang up my armor and get some of those fancy clothes.</P> <P> </P> <P>Though my defensive buff is decent at keeping the forge damage down!</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <P>Message Edited by Raahl on <SPAN class=date_text>10-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Will you come use your uber protection line on me, while I craft? /sarcasm off( <P>Sorry couldnt resist</P> <P>Hey................SOE ......... stop with the lip services, actions speak louder than words.</P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darton wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <P></P> <P>Update - My guardian made it to 34 weapon smith yesterday.   I should hang up my armor and get some of those fancy clothes.</P> <P> </P> <P>Though my defensive buff is decent at keeping the forge damage down!</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <P>Message Edited by Raahl on <SPAN class=date_text>10-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Will you come use your uber protection line on me, while I craft? /sarcasm off( <P>Sorry couldnt resist</P> <P>Hey................SOE ......... stop with the lip services, actions speak louder than words.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Now there's an idea.  We will protect others from those killer forges! <P></P>

[Dart]

Oh btw I guess I lied a little earlier about my Guardian. I do play him once a day, I log him in, go to room, add items to my offline broker boxes, then back to char select screen and log in as my warlock. So ya, I guess I still play him? :smileysurprised: <P> </P> <P> </P>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Raahl wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Darton wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Raahl wrote: <p></p> <p>Update - My guardian made it to 34 weapon smith yesterday.   I should hang up my armor and get some of those fancy clothes.</p> <p>Though my defensive buff is decent at keeping the forge damage down!</p> <p></p> <p>Message Edited by Raahl on <span class="date_text">10-27-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:07 AM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote>Will you come use your uber protection line on me, while I craft? /sarcasm off( <p>Sorry couldnt resist</p> <p>Hey................SOE ......... stop with the lip services, actions speak louder than words.</p> <hr> </blockquote>Now there's an idea.  We will protect others from those killer forges! <p></p><hr></blockquote> Oh the Irony...Guardian class defining skill is protecting the Armorsmiths that make them their required Cobalt armor. </span><p></p>

[Tochy]

1 month now that I didn't play my Guardian, and I don't have the guts to create an alt so I don't play EQ2 even for crafting by disgusting. And I continu to give money to Sony for that ... Actually it's the paly who is our raid MT. <P></P>

[Dart]

<P>I need to clarify something, kidding aside I am 100% behind getting the Guardian class retuned. I know I dont play one anymore, but I have close ties to the class still. When i am jking, I am laughing with you all not laughing at you all. I will continue to post ideas, and try to be constructive as possible (jk's and calling out trolls aside). </P> <P> </P> <P>All I can say is be patient, I went through this crap in EQ1 with Warriors. I know the outcome wont be the same, but SOE HAS to address some of the shortcommings to the guardian class. Keep up the good fight and know many non guardians support the cause as well.</P> <P> </P> <P>Cheers~</P> <P></P>

[Benfyn]

<P></P> <P>Still playing but seriously thinking about levelling up an Alt. Only reason I haven't is all my friends are playing their main characters and my next highest Alt is a lvl 24 Wizard. So I keep trudging along hoping things will get better. :smileysad:</P> <P> </P> <P>Krrrath lvl 58 Guardian of Kithicor</P> <P></P>

[Prufro]

I love my guardian, and i find myself to be extremely effective in small-group scenarios. At level 45 with a ranger and warden we took on a named level 49 elemental in everfrost last night.  I ran out of power towards the end of the fight, but i had built up enough hate to keep the mob on me until he was dead.  It was a very exciting fight.  Every time we try, as a trio, to take on anything that's yellow or lower we succeed, and i seriously doubt i could do as well as i do if i was any other fighter. I haven't done any raid tanking yet, other than MA but never taking damage as MA, but my guild uses only guardians on raids, and is able to take out any raid they try.  Our highest is a 56 guardian right now and i don't think there's a raid we've failed to do.  Strategies had to change a little, and the importance of resists was discovered with many deaths on Darathar, but guardians are still tanks. I'm tired of hearing people whine about taunts being resisted.  The timer doesn't reset to full countdown when it's resisted, only about 2s, and during that time you can easily do something else that will build your hate (another taunt maybe? or some damage?) Also, we're not required to have full fabled/legendary gear and all adept 3 spells for small groups.  I found two ebon clusters, one for my legs, other for my chest, and am using mostly mid-40s treasured gear as the rest of my armor and i'm excellent at taking damage.  I have all my taunts at adept 1 (except maddening defense at master 2) and never lose hate.  Is that stuff required for raiding? Most likely, but they're designed to be difficult and for guilds to take on.  If a guild is serious about raiding, they assist their members in getting gear/spells before helping themselves financially. Guardian is not an i-win button, but we excel at holding hate and taking damage if you mix strategy and persistence into a battle. In a month or two when i'm in the mid-50s i'll come back and say again how awesome we are.  When lu-13 went live i was only in my 20s, and was afraid of all your whines and moans and thought once i hit my 40s i'd suck.  In fact, i'm stronger than ever before. <p></p>

[Tochy]

<P>Illusions.</P> <P>We are all glade to see that we are still able to tank and be MT but .... do you know how many time your group of 3 would take to hit down your encounter with another fighting class ? do you know what to do when you are not the MT of a group ? do you know what to do when after spaming like hell 5 taunts the swachi or paladin, zerker etc ... get back the agro on you and you have not rescue to help ? when 3/4 of the fight you are stunned/stiffle ? low on power at 70% of the fight after just taunting ? That you rooted/slowed you just before you loose the agro and need to brake them to go back in the fight ? to use your "leet" mitigation buff group with an insane reuse time for what he does and thinking why they left our self sta buff on a timer ? to think that if you have had a really useful help art, then you will have save some situations ?</P> <P>And I don't talk about soloing, yeah I know that we can solo and it's still fun, rushing in greenies with offensive stance up and take ... lot of times to kill them leaving 75% of my HP pool in it. Watching all those cool arts with stun/stiffle etc ... on me every sec and those nuker laughting to my "ubber" HP pool with there spells and dots etc etc etc ...</P> <P>I m really glade for you, but for me that illusions, yes we can do things (thx god that we still can do things), but we are enjoying of small things, occulting the others.</P> <P>Message Edited by Tochyao on <SPAN class=date_text>10-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:45 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Tochyao on <span class=date_text>10-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:46 AM</span>

[Briz]

<DIV>These threads amuse me. Enjoy wallowing in self pity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Me? I'll be playing my Guardian.</DIV>

[Prufro]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tochyao wrote:<div></div> <p>Illusions.</p> <p>We are all glade to see that we are still able to tank and be MT but .... do you know how many time your group of 3 would take to hit down your encounter with another fighting class ? <font color="#ff6600">No, and i don't care.  I'm a guardian and do my job and we win, why should if any class can do it faster?  </font> </p> <p>do you know what to do when you are not the MT of a group ? <font color="#ff6600">Hmm, let me think here.  If a guardian isn't the MT, he has two options.  MA, or dps. Dps is obviously where a guardian is lacking, but how many of you chose a guardian to not be the MT in a group, and how many of you believed you would have that option?  I didn't, and it's not a role i want to play.</font> </p> <p>do you know what to do when after spaming like hell 5 taunts the swachi or paladin, zerker etc ... get back the agro on you and you have not rescue to help ? <font color="#ff6600">Funny thing is the only time i lose aggro is when i look away from the screen and talk to my wife, and forget to hit  some buttons.  A rescue takes care of that every time. </font> </p> <p>when 3/4 of the fight you are stunned/stiffle ? <font color="#ff6600">I'm never stunned/stiffles for 3/4 of the fight, and every time i get stunned/stiffled i announce for everyone to back off until i say ok, then when i'm unstunned i throw in a couple taunts and say ok.  I have two macros for this, and it works very well.</font> </p> <p>low on power at 70% of the fight after just taunting ? <font color="#ff6600">You're exaggerating here.  If you're low on power then again, tell people to back off a bit and let your HTL spell gain the aggro for you until you have some power to taunt.  This is much easier to handle when you have a power regen buff.  If the battle is going so long that the mob is only at 70% and you're out of power and all you did is taunt (which i'm suprised you kept aggro from <i>just</i> taunting) then you probably need some more dps.</font> </p> <p>That you rooter/slowed you just before you loose the agro and need to brake them to go back in the fight ? <font color="#ff6600">rooter? lol.  i make sure to tell my group members that if i lose aggro and they are far away from me there's a strong chance i'm rooted, so the best option is to run towards me and let me pull the mob off of them.  I also have a macro for this, and it works great.</font> </p> <p>to use your "leet" mitigation buff group with an insane reuse time for what he does and thinking why they left our self sta buff on a timer ?<font color="#ff6600"> what?</font> </p> <hr></blockquote>Your quiz was fun!  And full of emotion. There's some irony to the arguments i've noticed lately.  Pre lu13 Gaige was very passionate and tried very hard to get things the way he believed the game would be when he started.  This meant he lost his great dps, and gained equal tanking ability to everyone else. Guardians basically told him to #&#& off, they were the uber tanks and that's the way they wanted it. Now you have all classes tanking, but guardians are asking to be more than just tanks, they want to be like the other tanks and have a role other than tanking.  Should everyone just tell guardians to &#&# off?</span><div></div>

[Prufro]

<span><blockquote><hr>Brizzy wrote:<div>These threads amuse me. Enjoy wallowing in self pity.</div> <div> </div> <div>Me? I'll be playing my Guardian.</div><hr></blockquote>Best post ever! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span><div></div>

[mochl]

I'm still playing and still tanking. My only gripe about this whole update is the fact that taunts are being resisted. That to me is our biggest problem we have right now. My HP can be self buffed higher than any other fighter, my mitigation can be higher than anyone else's (for 30 seconds anyway) but my most important special ability is taunting and some mobs stop me from doing that. I'm not sure how to fix it because without resists holding aggro would be way too easy. A decent compromise would be resisted taunts only work at 50% or something like that. This isnt JUST a Guardian issue either, this is something that should be worrying all fighters especially those that have fewer taunts than we do. My DPS isnt as bad as some make it out to be. Without a doubt im getting higher numbers now than I was before the update. On a little 2 group raid against Meathooks I was top DPS while tanking, out doing 2 warlocks (who were heavily resisted) and one 59 dirge. Sure i had some damage procs from various classes but my dps was around 250 on a raid mob, at least 100 higher than anyone else in the raid. Guardian's Sphere is just OK, it could be made a ton better by having the recast timer shortened by a significant amount. I feel that we should be able to use our ability to soak up damage for our groupmates more often than we can now. Same thing applies to Sentry Watch as far as the recast timer goes. I've played through all 60 levels as a Guardian and will continue to keep playing as a Guardian. <div></div>

[Tobann]

I didnt start this thread to begin another flame war series. I thought it would be interesting and helpfull to see how many currant guardians were unhappy enough with their class to re roll somthing else. It seems a fair number have left.To me this means either SOE made a mistake at the start and had the class way overpowered. Let people play this way for a year,and then said forget that, making a lot of people unhappy. or They way overnerfed the class, again making a lot of people unhappy. Either way I think making a lot of people unhappy and dropping their guardian is not good for the community or SOE. I have no concrete suggestions on how to fix it,just the observation there is a significant problem. Thanks all for the posts. Tobann 50 guardian. <div></div>

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>mochlod wrote:<BR>I'm still playing and still tanking.<BR><BR>My only gripe about this whole update is the fact that taunts are being resisted. That to me is our biggest problem we have right now. My HP can be self buffed higher than any other fighter, my mitigation can be higher than anyone else's (for 30 seconds anyway) but my most important special ability is taunting and some mobs stop me from doing that. I'm not sure how to fix it because without resists holding aggro would be way too easy. A decent compromise would be resisted taunts only work at 50% or something like that. This isnt JUST a Guardian issue either, this is something that should be worrying all fighters especially those that have fewer taunts than we do.<BR><BR>My DPS isnt as bad as some make it out to be. Without a doubt im getting higher numbers now than I was before the update. On a little 2 group raid against Meathooks I was top DPS while tanking, out doing 2 warlocks (who were heavily resisted) and one 59 dirge. Sure i had some damage procs from various classes but my dps was around 250 on a raid mob, at least 100 higher than anyone else in the raid.</P> <P>************************************************** ************************************************** ********************</P> <P>Anyone will out DPS a warlock on Meathooks, as he is highly resistant to our damage type if not immune, so they can only use their Cold DD/stun, not to shoot you down, but this is a  bad example.<BR>************************************************** ************************************************** ********************<BR>Guardian's Sphere is just OK, it could be made a ton better by having the recast timer shortened by a significant amount. I feel that we should be able to use our ability to soak up damage for our groupmates more often than we can now. Same thing applies to Sentry Watch as far as the recast timer goes.<BR><BR>I've played through all 60 levels as a Guardian and will continue to keep playing as a Guardian.<BR><BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I will agree with you on one major point, ressisting taunts is one of the worst changes to date.</DIV>

[Prufro]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tobann wrote:I didnt start this thread to begin another flame war series. I thought it would be interesting and helpfull to see how many currant guardians were unhappy enough with their class to re roll somthing else.<b> It seems a fair number have left.</b>To me this means either SOE made a mistake at the start and had the class way overpowered. Let people play this way for a year,and then said forget that, making a lot of people unhappy. or They way overnerfed the class, again making a lot of people unhappy. Either way I think making a lot of people unhappy and dropping their guardian is not good for the community or SOE. I have no concrete suggestions on how to fix it,just the observation there is a significant problem. Thanks all for the posts. Tobann 50 guardian. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Why does it seem to you that a fair number have left?  Because a couple people posted that they left?  What about the guardians who don't read the forums, or who just play and don't worry about how they are compared to everyone else, and are having a blast?  Or the guardians who are just lurking and not responding?</span><div></div>

[Tochy]

<DIV><FONT color=#009966></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prufrock wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tochyao wrote:<BR> <P>Illusions.</P> <P>We are all glade to see that we are still able to tank and be MT but .... <BR>do you know how many time your group of 3 would take to hit down your encounter with another fighting class ? <FONT color=#ff6600>No, and i don't care.  I'm a guardian and do my job and we win, why should if any class can do it faster? </FONT><FONT color=#33cc99>Maybe feeling the same thing when you dig a hole with your hands for 2 days and front of you they did it with a tool in 2 hours ? Else the time gained would let your group do twice more things ? or that can be funny 1, 2, 3 times to finish an encounter in the "rush" but the next times no, more when you don't have the luck to still have the agro and all your group dies, or your run out of mana your healer.</FONT><BR></P> <P>do you know what to do when you are not the MT of a group ? <FONT color=#ff6600>Hmm, let me think here.  If a guardian isn't the MT, he has two options.  MA, or dps. Dps is obviously where a guardian is lacking, but how many of you chose a guardian to not be the MT in a group <FONT color=#00cc99>(not many people I think), </FONT>and how many of you believed you would have that option? <FONT color=#00cc99>(now ? a lot of us)</FONT>  I didn't, and it's not a role i want to play. Sorry to announce you that but now we are not. </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>Sorry to announce you that we are not the only MT aviable in every situations now, even more when you face a Paladin or Zerker with better stuffs thantyou. You will need to leave him the MT role, keeping it is just illusions or convenance.</FONT><BR></P> <P>do you know what to do when after spaming like hell 5 taunts the swachi or paladin, zerker etc ... get back the agro on you and you have not rescue to help ? <FONT color=#ff6600>Funny thing is the only time i lose aggro is when i look away from the screen and talk to my wife, and forget to hit  some buttons.  A rescue takes care of that every time.</FONT><FONT color=#00cc99> Funny but it happen few times against long fights (you know, the mobs than can't be done with just 3 peoples)</FONT><BR></P> <P>when 3/4 of the fight you are stunned/stiffle ? <FONT color=#ff6600>I'm never stunned/stiffles for 3/4 of the fight, and every time i get stunned/stiffled i announce for everyone to back off until i say ok, then when i'm unstunned i throw in a couple taunts and say ok.  I have two macros for this, and it works very well. </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>Funny but it happen few times against groupe of multiples mobs who have stun/stiffle combat (not spells) arts. If every 5 sec I should have tell in Teamspeak "everybody in the raid, stop fighting please". And this situation happen  a lot of times when you are solo.</FONT><BR></P> <P>low on power at 70% of the fight after just taunting ? <FONT color=#ff6600>You're exaggerating here.  If you're low on power then again, tell people to back off a bit and let your HTL spell gain the aggro for you until you have some power to taunt.  This is much easier to handle when you have a power regen buff.  If the battle is going so long that the mob is only at 70% and you're out of power and all you did is taunt (which i'm suprised you kept aggro from <I>just</I> taunting) then you probably need some more dps.</FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>Funny but it happen few times against GroupX4 Named mobs, even more when they have a mana pump arts. And yes we are very good with 2 healers with us,  plus a chanter for mana regen, plus some dps guys ... but wait, everybody are good in this situations. And I said 70% of the fight, not the HP pool of the mob, they are more at 30% at this moment.</FONT></P> <P>That you rooter/slowed you just before you loose the agro and need to brake them to go back in the fight ? <FONT color=#ff6600>rooter? lol <FONT color=#00cc99>Rooted I mean, but yes you are right we are rooter too, we root ourself in 3 differents ways</FONT>.  i make sure to tell my group members that if i lose aggro and they are far away from me there's a strong chance i'm rooted, so the best option is to run towards me and let me pull the mob off of them.  I also have a macro for this, and it works great. </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>If everytime I needed to tel them that , they will start to laugh, that's why I use those tech at the begining of the fight or I avoid to use them, but when you loose agro at this moment, you start to laugh.</FONT><BR></P> <P>to use your "leet" mitigation buff group with an insane reuse time for what he does and thinking why they left our self sta buff on a timer ?<FONT color=#ff6600> what? </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>They have put our group buffs that we used to get agro on "Until Canceled" and leave our self STA buff that was maybe the only one to have to be "Until Canceled". And they have increasing the timer of our group mitigation buff to an insane amount for the low bonus that gives.</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Your quiz was fun!  And full of emotion. <FONT color=#00cc99>At your service</FONT><BR><BR>There's some irony to the arguments i've noticed lately.  Pre lu13 Gaige was very passionate and tried very hard to get things the way he believed the game would be when he started.  This meant he lost his great dps <FONT color=#00cc99>(but still are REALLY good, without going to the big dps of the real dps class)</FONT>, and gained equal tanking ability to everyone else.<BR><BR>Guardians basically told him to #&#& off, they were the uber tanks and that's the way they wanted it.<BR><BR>Now you have all classes tanking, but guardians are asking to be more than just tanks, they want to be like the other tanks and have a role other than tanking.  Should everyone just tell guardians to &#&# off?</P> <P><FONT color=#00cc99>Yes we are asking for more, and no I dont ask to be The ubber tank or nerf the others. Before LU 13 we was enjoying our class because it was different from the others, maybe on wrong bases because we was the only one to tank but we was differents. Now Guardian is a Paladin without heal/rez, a Zerker without bersek/dps, a Monk without "leet" moves/dps and other utilities etc .... So yes we are the "Unsung heroes", we are better that the others in the "normal" things, more HP, more Mitigations, more Taunts ... but the differences is not even close to the bonus the others have with dps, heal etc etc ....<BR></FONT></P></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[Tobann]

<div></div>To Prufrock In answer to your question, I noted on my Faydark server that my /who command prior to the update usually came back with at least 4-5 guardians per zone, and after I was often the only one. Also I noted my guild had fewer guardians logging on, on a regular basis. I had no information on other servers or guild so I thought Id start the post. I agree there are still guardians playing happily, probably mainly in guilds that support them. But I think it is alos fair to say, at least on faydark there are less guardians playing regularly than before the update.Again I think a change that upsets people enough to make them reroll a charecter they have been working on for months, cant be good for either the community in game or SOE as a company. Do you disagree?   Tobann <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tobann on <span class=date_text>10-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:51 AM</span>

[Veshtan]

<P>I also play on the Faydark Server...under the name of....well...Veshtan :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>And so i can back Tobann up on this one.  I know all the guards in my guild have either re-rolled or left.  I'm the only hold out.  /shrug</P>

[Prufro]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tochyao wrote:<div><font color="#009966"></font> <blockquote> <hr> Prufrock wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> Tochyao wrote: <div></div> <p>Illusions.</p> <p>We are all glade to see that we are still able to tank and be MT but .... do you know how many time your group of 3 would take to hit down your encounter with another fighting class ? <font color="#ff6600">No, and i don't care.  I'm a guardian and do my job and we win, why should if any class can do it faster? </font><font color="#33cc99">Maybe feeling the same thing when you dig a hole with your hands for 2 days and front of you they did it with a tool in 2 hours ? Else the time gained would let your group do twice more things ? or that can be funny 1, 2, 3 times to finish an encounter in the "rush" but the next times no, more when you don't have the luck to still have the agro and all your group dies, or your run out of mana your healer.<font color="#ff0000"> Yet again, you're overdramatic.  Other tanks do not make this much of a difference.</font></font></p> <p>do you know what to do when you are not the MT of a group ? <font color="#ff6600">Hmm, let me think here.  If a guardian isn't the MT, he has two options.  MA, or dps. Dps is obviously where a guardian is lacking, but how many of you chose a guardian to not be the MT in a group <font color="#00cc99">(not many people I think), </font>and how many of you believed you would have that option? <font color="#00cc99">(now ? a lot of us)</font>  I didn't, and it's not a role i want to play. Sorry to announce you that but now we are not. </font><font color="#00cc99">Sorry to announce you that we are not the only MT aviable in every situations now, even more when you face a Paladin or Zerker with better stuffs thantyou. You will need to leave him the MT role, keeping it is just illusions or convenance.   <font color="#ff0000">I didn't ask now, i asked when you chose a guardian.  No, we're not the MT, but if you want to be you can.  How? Form your own group rather than join another one.  I get invites to tank all the time, and i've never been told i suck over another tank.</font></font></p> <p>do you know what to do when after spaming like hell 5 taunts the swachi or paladin, zerker etc ... get back the agro on you and you have not rescue to help ? <font color="#ff6600">Funny thing is the only time i lose aggro is when i look away from the screen and talk to my wife, and forget to hit  some buttons.  A rescue takes care of that every time.</font><font color="#00cc99"> Funny but it happen few times against long fights (you know, the mobs than can't be done with just 3 peoples) <font color="#ff0000">You seem to assume i've only been in fights with only three people.  My point of the 3 person battle was to show that with one dps and one healer we kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  I've been in 15 minute fights where i can control aggro the entire fight and not run out of power.</font></font></p> <p>when 3/4 of the fight you are stunned/stiffle ? <font color="#ff6600">I'm never stunned/stiffles for 3/4 of the fight, and every time i get stunned/stiffled i announce for everyone to back off until i say ok, then when i'm unstunned i throw in a couple taunts and say ok.  I have two macros for this, and it works very well. </font><font color="#00cc99">Funny but it happen few times against groupe of multiples mobs who have stun/stiffle combat (not spells) arts. If every 5 sec I should have tell in Teamspeak "everybody in the raid, stop fighting please". And this situation happen  a lot of times when you are solo.  <font color="#ff0000">Here's the solo crap again.  Guardians can't solo, we're tanks.  You didn't choose guardian to solo.  Yes, there are a few situations that you are stunned for a large part of a battle, but if those bother you so much then don't fight those battles.</font></font></p> <p>low on power at 70% of the fight after just taunting ? <font color="#ff6600">You're exaggerating here.  If you're low on power then again, tell people to back off a bit and let your HTL spell gain the aggro for you until you have some power to taunt.  This is much easier to handle when you have a power regen buff.  If the battle is going so long that the mob is only at 70% and you're out of power and all you did is taunt (which i'm suprised you kept aggro from <i>just</i> taunting) then you probably need some more dps.</font><font color="#00cc99">Funny but it happen few times against GroupX4 Named mobs, even more when they have a mana pump arts. And yes we are very good with 2 healers with us,  plus a chanter for mana regen, plus some dps guys ... but wait, everybody are good in this situations. And I said 70% of the fight, not the HP pool of the mob, they are more at 30% at this moment.  <font color="#ff0000">Lol, of <i>course</i> you run out of power when the mob is draining it.  Most of the power drain attacks i've seen have been spell based, like disease, and if you get your resists high enough they wont even be able to land those spells, hence you have power.</font> </font></p> <p>That you rooter/slowed you just before you loose the agro and need to brake them to go back in the fight ? <font color="#ff6600">rooter? lol <font color="#00cc99">Rooted I mean, but yes you are right we are rooter too, we root ourself in 3 differents ways</font>.  i make sure to tell my group members that if i lose aggro and they are far away from me there's a strong chance i'm rooted, so the best option is to run towards me and let me pull the mob off of them.  I also have a macro for this, and it works great. </font><font color="#00cc99">If everytime I needed to tel them that , they will start to laugh, that's why I use those tech at the begining of the fight or I avoid to use them, but when you loose agro at this moment, you start to laugh.  <font color="#ff0000">Mommy mommy, he laughed at me.</font></font></p> <p>to use your "leet" mitigation buff group with an insane reuse time for what he does and thinking why they left our self sta buff on a timer ?<font color="#ff6600"> what? </font><font color="#00cc99">They have put our group buffs that we used to get agro on "Until Canceled" and leave our self STA buff that was maybe the only one to have to be "Until Canceled". And they have increasing the timer of our group mitigation buff to an insane amount for the low bonus that gives.  <font color="#ff0000">Who cares, they still buff don't they?  You can't use them for aggro anymore, but i doubt that was intended in the first place.</font></font></p> <hr> </blockquote></span><div></div></blockquote></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Prufro]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Tobann wrote:<div></div>To Prufrock In answer to your question, I noted on my Faydark server that my /who command prior to the update usually came back with at least 4-5 guardians per zone, and after I was often the only one. Also I noted my guild had fewer guardians logging on, on a regular basis. I had no information on other servers or guild so I thought Id start the post. I agree there are still guardians playing happily, probably mainly in guilds that support them. But I think it is alos fair to say, at least on faydark there are less guardians playing regularly than before the update.Again I think a change that upsets people enough to make them reroll a charecter they have been working on for months, cant be good for either the community in game or SOE as a company. Do you disagree?   Tobann <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tobann on <span class="date_text">10-28-2005</span> <span class="time_text">08:51 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ah, but don't you realize that the expansion added zones, so now guardians are more spread out, especially since some are leveling now.  /who is not a good way to determine how many people have left in disgust over specificly changes to the guardian class. I'm sure a lot of guardians were not happy with the changes.  And i'm sure a lot left the game or rerolled.  People don't like change, and have a hard time adjusting to it.  All i'm trying to do is help the low level guardian realize that we are not the worst class in existence, and if you choose to play a guardian you can fulfill your role.  All that has been on this forum since lu13 is what is wrong with guardians, how many have left, why soe doesn't know what they're doing, what guardians want changed, how guardians want to be equal because they suck now,, etc...  and i'd hate that to take new players away from a class that is so much fun to play.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Prufrock on <span class=date_text>10-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[Tochy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prufrock wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tochyao wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#009966></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prufrock wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tochyao wrote:<BR> <P>Illusions.</P> <P>We are all glade to see that we are still able to tank and be MT but .... <BR>do you know how many time your group of 3 would take to hit down your encounter with another fighting class ? <FONT color=#ff6600>No, and i don't care.  I'm a guardian and do my job and we win, why should if any class can do it faster? </FONT><FONT color=#33cc99>Maybe feeling the same thing when you dig a hole with your hands for 2 days and front of you they did it with a tool in 2 hours ? Else the time gained would let your group do twice more things ? or that can be funny 1, 2, 3 times to finish an encounter in the "rush" but the next times no, more when you don't have the luck to still have the agro and all your group dies, or your run out of mana your healer.<FONT color=#ff0000> Yet again, you're overdramatic.  Other tanks do not make this much of a difference. </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#3399ff>I can firmly say yes, more when they are dps tank, but I will stop here because we there is no end.</FONT><BR></P> <P>do you know what to do when you are not the MT of a group ? <FONT color=#ff6600>Hmm, let me think here.  If a guardian isn't the MT, he has two options.  MA, or dps. Dps is obviously where a guardian is lacking, but how many of you chose a guardian to not be the MT in a group <FONT color=#00cc99>(not many people I think), </FONT>and how many of you believed you would have that option? <FONT color=#00cc99>(now ? a lot of us)</FONT>  I didn't, and it's not a role i want to play. Sorry to announce you that but now we are not. </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>Sorry to announce you that we are not the only MT aviable in every situations now, even more when you face a Paladin or Zerker with better stuffs thantyou. You will need to leave him the MT role, keeping it is just illusions or convenance.   <FONT color=#ff0000>I didn't ask now, i asked when you chose a guardian.  No, we're not the MT, but if you want to be you can.  How? Form your own group rather than join another one.  I get invites to tank all the time, and i've never been told i suck over another tank. Me too, bu leaving the MT place to other tank yes ... </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#3399ff>So we go back to the initial question, "What to do when you are not the MT of a group ?" And I will not leave my guild for forming a group because I m not the MT, and I m not a Cleric/Shamy hybrid class to buff AC/HP of another tank.<BR></FONT></P> <P>do you know what to do when after spaming like hell 5 taunts the swachi or paladin, zerker etc ... get back the agro on you and you have not rescue to help ? <FONT color=#ff6600>Funny thing is the only time i lose aggro is when i look away from the screen and talk to my wife, and forget to hit  some buttons.  A rescue takes care of that every time.</FONT><FONT color=#00cc99> Funny but it happen few times against long fights (you know, the mobs than can't be done with just 3 peoples) <FONT color=#ff0000>You seem to assume i've only been in fights with only three people.  My point of the 3 person battle was to show that with one dps and one healer we kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  I've been in 15 minute fights where i can control aggro the entire fight and not run out of power. </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#3399ff>Me too, like I said it's illusions, and you will see that situation happen more times then yours. But let's end here because there is no end. You didn't ask to tell you that you are just 45 so I will not go in that.</FONT><BR></P> <P>when 3/4 of the fight you are stunned/stiffle ? <FONT color=#ff6600>I'm never stunned/stiffles for 3/4 of the fight, and every time i get stunned/stiffled i announce for everyone to back off until i say ok, then when i'm unstunned i throw in a couple taunts and say ok.  I have two macros for this, and it works very well. </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>Funny but it happen few times against groupe of multiples mobs who have stun/stiffle combat (not spells) arts. If every 5 sec I should have tell in Teamspeak "everybody in the raid, stop fighting please". And this situation happen  a lot of times when you are solo.  <FONT color=#ff0000>Here's the solo crap again.  Guardians can't solo, we're tanks <FONT color=#3399ff>( We are all equal tanks , but with less dps, less utilities, and less solo capacities then the others, but we are "Great" so .... Illusions)</FONT> .  You didn't choose guardian to solo.  Yes, there are a few situations that you are stunned for a large part of a battle, but if those bother you so much then don't fight those battles. </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#3399ff>Well the prob is, when I m not in a situation when the mob resist my taunts, when I don't loose the agro another guy, when I m not out of power, when I m not rooted/slowed etc .... I am .... stunned and stiffle. It's not just the fact to be stunned and stiffled many times, but the cumuls of all those negatives situations.</FONT><BR></P> <P>low on power at 70% of the fight after just taunting ? <FONT color=#ff6600>You're exaggerating here.  If you're low on power then again, tell people to back off a bit and let your HTL spell gain the aggro for you until you have some power to taunt.  This is much easier to handle when you have a power regen buff.  If the battle is going so long that the mob is only at 70% and you're out of power and all you did is taunt (which i'm suprised you kept aggro from <I>just</I> taunting) then you probably need some more dps.</FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>Funny but it happen few times against GroupX4 Named mobs, even more when they have a mana pump arts. And yes we are very good with 2 healers with us,  plus a chanter for mana regen, plus some dps guys ... but wait, everybody are good in this situations. And I said 70% of the fight, not the HP pool of the mob, they are more at 30% at this moment.  <FONT color=#ff0000>Lol, of <I>course</I> you run out of power when the mob is draining it <FONT color=#3399ff>( I said "even more" )</FONT>.  Most of the power drain attacks i've seen have been spell based, like disease, and if you get your resists high enough they wont even be able to land those spells, hence you have power. </FONT><FONT color=#3399ff>They are not all disease based but like the other 2 questions, let's end here, you have seen more things then me, I have seen more things then you etc ... no end.</FONT><BR></FONT></P> <P>That you rooter/slowed you just before you loose the agro and need to brake them to go back in the fight ? <FONT color=#ff6600>rooter? lol <FONT color=#00cc99>Rooted I mean, but yes you are right we are rooter too, we root ourself in 3 differents ways</FONT>.  i make sure to tell my group members that if i lose aggro and they are far away from me there's a strong chance i'm rooted, so the best option is to run towards me and let me pull the mob off of them.  I also have a macro for this, and it works great. </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>If everytime I needed to tel them that , they will start to laugh, that's why I use those tech at the begining of the fight or I avoid to use them, but when you loose agro at this moment, you start to laugh.  <FONT color=#ff0000>Mommy mommy, he laughed at me. </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#3399ff>Very constructive, and I dont need to tell the group that I have lost the agro, they all saw it in the UI or in the game, and they understand when I don't immediatly move because I m removing my roots.</FONT><BR></P> <P>to use your "leet" mitigation buff group with an insane reuse time for what he does and thinking why they left our self sta buff on a timer ?<FONT color=#ff6600> what? </FONT><FONT color=#00cc99>They have put our group buffs that we used to get agro on "Until Canceled" and leave our self STA buff that was maybe the only one to have to be "Until Canceled". And they have increasing the timer of our group mitigation buff to an insane amount for the low bonus that gives.  <FONT color=#ff0000>Who cares, they still buff don't they? You can't use them for aggro anymore, but i doubt that was intended in the first place.  </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#3399ff>Maybe but that was better to just spam direct taunts who are resistable.</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN> <FONT color=#3399ff>You are right to give hope in Guardian class to new players , yes we are great MAIN tanks (don't forget the MAIN) but dont forget to said like the others , and that we are not differents than the other tank class who are differents between them.  I just think that saying that we can Main tank is stucking in the "Unsung Hero" illusion to avoid saying that the only thing we can do, like the others, having no more "flavor" and "idantity" ... How MG  said it ? We are not "sexy".</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Shizzirri]

<P>And that's why guardians right now are such a turn off, they are one dimensional, they can tank and that's it, they don't have worthy dps for a raid, and they're utility is broken and not as good as other classes.  Guardians need something unique that gives them some sort of purpose when there not tanking and protection buffs aren't it, in a normal group scenario when a slot opens up and they have a tank the group isn't going to say "oh let's get a guardian because they have uber defense buffs." </P> <P>Moorguard said it himself saying we weren't "sexy" and had no unique abilities, well MG that right there is the problem.</P>

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shizzirri wrote:<BR> <P>And that's why guardians right now are such a turn off, they are one dimensional, they can tank and that's it, they don't have worthy dps for a raid, and they're utility is broken and not as good as other classes.  Guardians need something unique that gives them some sort of purpose when there not tanking and protection buffs aren't it, in a normal group scenario when a slot opens up and they have a tank the group isn't going to say "oh let's get a guardian because they have uber defense buffs." </P> <P>Moorguard said it himself saying we weren't "sexy" and had no unique abilities, well MG that right there is the problem.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bingo~ These are the main reasons, that I couldnt get inspired to play Darton post LU13.

[Pry]

<P>I parked my toon in front of her house at level 50.8 about 2 months ago and logged out and haven't logged on since.  And as I watch the Live Updates come through (3 of them now) with no discernable changes, and since I don't really play SWG since that crappy combat revamp, and since I don't play EQLive anymore, I think that getting rid of that fee I pay will be right around the corner because I am confident at this point that there won't be anything new down the road for EQ2.</P> <P>The grind stinks, forced grouping stinks more, the character isn't fun to play and the thought of sitting my rear-end in front of a computer for countless hours on end to level up another toon that's just going to get nerfed later makes me want to puke.</P> <P>Lesson learned?  There's a reason that certain individuals like the game the way it is now. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  They could care less whether there are 2 subscriptions or 2 Million.  Whenever you see someone fighting to keep things they way they are, including SOE staff, I want you to think about what I just said. </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>-If you were in a high-end guild and there was much less competition for mobs, and by MT'ing you will get more loot....would you be for or against the changes?</P> <P>- If you were an SOE employee and you could have 10 loyal customers who will love you no matter what you do and later on charge them much more, instead of 10 million argumentative ones, what would you want? </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Most people always have nefarious reasons to do things.  It's human nature.  Don't go thinking that their cause (such as Fighter Balance) are all noble, they aren't. </P>

[Briz]

<span><blockquote><hr>Prynn wrote:<div></div> <p>Most people always have nefarious reasons to do things.  It's human nature.  Don't go thinking that their cause (such as Fighter Balance) are all noble, they aren't. </p><hr></blockquote>Is that honestly your philosophy about humanity? That's the saddest thing I've ever heard.</span><div></div>

[Pry]

<blockquote><hr>Brizzy wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Prynn wrote:<div></div> <p>Most people always have nefarious reasons to do things.  It's human nature.  Don't go thinking that their cause (such as Fighter Balance) are all noble, they aren't. </p><hr></blockquote>Is that honestly your philosophy about humanity? That's the saddest thing I've ever heard.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Not a philosophical discussion on humanity as a whole, just observations about MMOG's. It would be silly to relate philosophically the whole of humanity based on observations in a video game, don't you think?

[Briz]

<span><blockquote><hr>Prynn wrote: Not a philosophical discussion on humanity as a whole, just observations about MMOG's. It would be silly to relate philosophically the whole of humanity based on observations in a video game, don't you think?<hr></blockquote>I think the issue is more of player's maturity than outright evil. There are a lot of childish people that play this game. Certainly not all of them, but a decent sized number. They're all about entitlement, and how they all need this and that, and all they see is the endgame and how uber their gear is, and how many rares they found today, and so on, and so on. These are the people who threaten to quit when something doesn't go their way, and then write up whine thread after whine thread. They think it makes them self-important - rise up against the man that opresses you! Are you kidding? It's a <i>game</i>. I refuse to get that worked up over a video game, ever. That's not to say I don't get mad about things, or that I agree with every decision the devs make - because I don't, and I've said as much on these boards. That kind of behavior is still not <i>evil</i>. It's immature, it's poor social skills, and more importantly, it's a bad way to live one's life - but it's not evil. Hitler was evil. Jim Jones was evil. Bert is evil. (Sorry, couldn't resist that.) But I'd be hard pressed to call a player on this game evil. I'm not saying it's not possible - just that the behavior you describe is merely selfish and childish.</span><div></div>

[Bantel]

<P>2 Guardians left the game after the nerf, 2 remain, myself and another. I play my alts a lot now, as does our other Guardian.</P> <P>If you want to see the desertion of the class, take a look at my level history.</P> <P>Note how 3 weeks goes by between levels 50 and 51 (as opposed to my usual 5 day window), but I jump from 112th to 54th?</P> <P>Note again the jump from level 51 to 52...54th to 38th, even though it took me almost twice as long to level (had some time away).</P> <DIV>47 September 05, 2005  136</DIV> <DIV>48 September 10, 2005  131</DIV> <DIV>49 September 14, 2005  122</DIV> <DIV>50 September 18, 2005  112</DIV> <DIV>51 October 05, 2005         54</DIV> <DIV>52 October 14, 2005         38</DIV> <DIV>53 October 25, 2005         37</DIV>

[Shizzirri]

Noticed the same thing on my server I was the first guardian there to hit 60, the second was about two weeks behind me, other than that there aren't really that many guardians around, I see them every so often, but its zerkers and pallies on my server that make up the majority of the population, its nice when guardian masters go up on the broker though.

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>theres no reason in leveling the dof raids arent really worth doing.</DIV>

[Frostborne]

Well I finally decided to leave the game for a variety of reasons that have some but not all to do with the Guardian and what was done in LU13 and since.  These are just a few random thoughts, in no particular order of importance, you may agree or disagree as you like, however they are my opinions on the game, it's direction and how it's affected the playerbase: 1.) Nerfing of classes outright without so much as a *sniff* of concern for the players affected.   The fact that they would toss to the wind peoples well invested time after a year or so of play is just befuddling.  I wish more companies took greater care in how they affect the game when doing class balancing, but EQ2 has just done what many other companies out there have done, and I can't accept that. 2.) Declining player base.  I've noticed it since the start of game, and have since seen more and more people *Offline* when I log on.  Groupings becoming more and more difficult for a variety of reasons, mainly because less people are playing, but some just won't group out of guild, etc.   Also the towns that used to be very packed at one time, now look all but abandoned.  Not sure if this is true on every server, I hope not. 3.) Crafting seems pointless now, the system is boring, lacks any viable reward for the time, that lack of server policing for botting/macroning,   Many of the items crafted are useless, not worth crafting, and are basically "filler".  Has anyone used ever bought player made poisons/potions?  I've never seen anyone selling them or buying them.  Most spell upgrades are trumped by spell drops that are better, and the fact items sell for nothing, makes it not even worth doing.   Armoring is just god awful, the lack of variety makes each level a maddening, repetitive, labor to get to the next level.  Tailoring, well it's almost as bad as armorer, not quite, save the dolls and bags.  Though at least as Armorer, you might sell some of you armor, not the same as Tailor.  Sage, well, it's nice to make spells for two classes, but when all is said and done, it's useless save adept 3's.  Jeweler?  Well, many people where quested loot, so about the only reason for it is making palladium torques.  Other than that?  Bleh.  Provisioner.  The only class they did correctly.  Has a renewable selling point to varying classes, things are sellable almost in any tier, though many time they sell for much more than the effort, but well done.  Weapsonsmith....see Armorer.  Carpentry?  Save for boxes, absolutely worthless, unless you happen to own a useless house too.  Woodworking, well, seems interesting, but is the only TS class I don't know about, so won't comment on it. 4.) Simple frustration. Since LU13 everything around you agros, walks around.  I don't mind wandering mobs, I think that's great, but the sheer volume of monsters (maybe its because no one is killing them), so close together, makes it hard at times since you have to squeeze into spots, many move around randomly so additional agro is almost always a problem.  This just makes soloing problematic.  Given #2, that's a not so pleasant fact.  Many of the quests are just not solable, and if they are, they aren't worth doing.  Many of the quests that I end up doing are either green or blue by the time I get to them. 5.)  Friends of mine have moved to other games, and I hate playing solo.  The guild system was a burr in my side since it's inception, and it's improved alot.  Problem is many people have either quit or merged their guilds with others, the lack of a variety of guild types is evident.  Seems everyone is either a raiding guild, or a family guild, or both.  Many people use guilds like toilet paper, though this isn't true of everyones, just an observation I've made from the outside of many.  Once they get where they want to be in one, they switch to another that will give them something more.   The game caters to that greed based mentality, which has just bothered me to no end.  I think this is the only game I played where I didn't make at least one solid friend in it. Everyone I made friends with was from another game where loot wasn't the emphasis.  Most the people I've met in EQ2 have put loot/personal gain over all, including friendships, and that has really changed my opinion about how I see the game the most. So I'm off to WoW, with no expectation that it will be any better or worse, but the saving grace is I got it for free, and that my friends are there, so I am too.  Good luck all!<div></div>

[TanRaistlyn]

<DIV>My guardian was retired as much as it pains me to say...Rolled a bruiser for the time being until Vanguard comes out, so I can stay in touch with my friends in my guilds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Covenant</DIV>

[Raahl]

<DIV>Woot! My guardian is back up to 100% crafting Vitality.  </DIV>

[restinpea]

<DIV>Well , trust me i am sad about it, but this time has come : i parked my guardian and re-rolled a necro yesterday. Some facts :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- i was 60,  full T6rare/T6fabled/ad3  (some much time and work)</DIV> <DIV>- i was the main MT of my guild (i got cruched yesterday on team speak by guildies : no other guardian in my guild any more)</DIV> <DIV>- Our second MT gave up too (guardian ---> reroll ----->Assasin)</DIV> <DIV>- i was so bored , dont get me wrong : not because "i was 60,  full T6rare/T6fabled/ad3", no solo possible for lvl 60... not so bad for XP to 60 soloing but NOTHING interesting and possible once 60.</DIV> <DIV>- yesterday i understood there is no hope for us or that's not worth the time to wait again and again , LU after LU... nothing on horizon. Stop to dream , the extrem prejudice done to guardians will never been restaured , on the best we can expect some fix.</DIV> <DIV>- i truly get fun with the necro and not only because it s new</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry about the personal edge of this reply but it s good to speak some time... at peeps who can understand....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BYE buds.</DIV>

[Zensi]

Im taking the sour bite out of the apple and getting my guardian to lvl 60 before i utlimately decide to give up or not. Maybe by that time they have given us some love......Yeah right hahaha Rock on Fellow guards, for one day we shall be victoriuos! As the tough meatshields in battle, or dead corpses with our honour still maintained! <div></div>