Taunts are soo crap now that they resistable

[DaxxDea]

<DIV>I was raiding terrorantula other day and was losing agro alot so i checked my logs and saw 10 taunt resists within 5secs or so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is just completely unexceptable. Taunting is my classes main role and to make us resisted that much(still think taunts should be unresistable) is rediculous. Imagine if healers heals were resistable and healer had 10 resists on heals in a row that is just bs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony seemingly changed taunts for absolutely no reason they were working perfectly fine as everyone agreed then out of nowhere with no explanation they just completely destroyed taunts and made them resistable. Its gotten to the point where I have to use rescue on the pull because if my first taunt I cast on inc is resisted the mob will run right past me and start killing off healers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I know alot of guardians will think to themselfs well i play all day and never notice resists. This may be true but once you start pushing the highest content like terrorantula and Sunchild(hes in shimmering citadel raid instance) youll notice your taunts start getting resisted 90% of the time. So while resistable taunts may work for exp groups they simply don't work on raids and really need to be changed back to how they were before revamp, unresistable.</DIV>

[Skha]

Totally agree. I can't see why SOE changed them in the first place, I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about how taunts work pre-LU13. <div></div>

[TunaBoo]

BTW bash.. your guildie ranger went on and on about how guardians taunt just fine. I know this isn't true, and you know it isn't true.. might want to point this out as he is trying to keep our taunts useless http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=75215#M75215 <div></div>

[EvilIguana9]

I see, if the guardian isn't the preferred tank on every mob something is wrong *nod* Somone said something interesting in that other thread.  They said that guard taunts are mental, pal divine, etc etc.  That means that *gasp* some tank classes will do better on some mobs than others.  Now I know the die hard one-tank-only morons like tunaboo are going to be upset about this, but GUARDIANS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE ONE AND ONLY PREFERRED TANK IN EVERY SITUATION. Not saying things are balanced atm, I am saying that you guys need to keep your eye on realistic goals.  Asking for guardians to be #1 just diminishes the power of your other complaints.  Two things need to happen.  Plate tanks need to balanced with pajama tanks, and then guardians need to have their utility balanced with the rest of the fighter tree.  <div></div>

[TunaBoo]

Guards have the worst dps, no utlity.. and weak [expletive haxx0red by Raiscript] taunts. mm mm looks balanced here. <div></div>

[Danan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>Guards have the worst dps, no utlity.. and weak [expletive haxx0red by Raiscript] taunts. mm mm looks balanced here.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Great solution Tuna.....oh wait you didnt provide any solution just a simple whine!</P> <P>Try asking for realistic things and not become the only choice for MT</P>

[EvilIguana9]

<span><blockquote><hr>TunaBoo wrote:Guards have the worst dps, no utlity.. and weak [expletive haxx0red by Raiscript] taunts. mm mm looks balanced here. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Great strategy there.  Just say the same thing in every post without reading a word of anything written above.  </span><div></div>

[TunaBoo]

I've asked 100s of times for what we need fixed. Taunts need to not be resisted by mobs within 5 levels of us. Tower shields should either add to mitigation, or give us a 50-75% stun resist chance from the front. Our vigilance line should be taken away and replaces with a long term self only mitigation buff, and infmaing defense line should no longer not proc under wards. <div></div>

[Kasar]

<span><blockquote><hr>EvilIguana966 wrote:GUARDIANS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE ONE AND ONLY PREFERRED TANK IN EVERY SITUATION. <hr></blockquote> The question remains, when are they?  Ever? In what situation would a guardian MT be of ANY use if their taunts are consistently resisted? </span><div></div>

[Lyrus]

fully agree on taunts being resisted. All fighters should be agreeing on this one, no matter the mob, tank class, etc, plain and simple. Perhaps bring this up on all the other fighter forums and make the word known. <div></div>

[ProwlerE]

<DIV>I have to agree here. It is extremely hard to keep aggro as it is with our crap taunts, and with the possibility of a resist on top of that makes aggro control almost imposible for any Guardian. Our whole aggro line of spells needs to be looked at and altered a great deal. One day just maybe we will be able to hold aggro again...</DIV>

[Landiin]

<span><blockquote><hr>EvilIguana966 wrote:I see, if the guardian isn't the preferred tank on every mob something is wrong *nod* Somone said something interesting in that other thread.  They said that guard taunts are mental, pal divine, etc etc.  That means that *gasp* some tank classes will do better on some mobs than others.  Now I know the die hard one-tank-only morons like tunaboo are going to be upset about this, but GUARDIANS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE ONE AND ONLY PREFERRED TANK IN EVERY SITUATION. Not saying things are balanced atm, I am saying that you guys need to keep your eye on realistic goals.  Asking for guardians to be #1 just diminishes the power of your other complaints.  Two things need to happen.  Plate tanks need to balanced with pajama tanks, and then guardians need to have their utility balanced with the rest of the fighter tree.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>Dude, I didn't read where he said he wanted to be the only tank.. I am so tired of people and other classes commen here saying over and over and over that we shouldn't be the only tank. Yes there is a couple people that say that but not most of us. So get off it. Please learn the game before u start posting junk like gurads are mental taunts and junk.. thats talking about primary resists not what our spells work off of.. If you would read half the post here you would see we are working on realistic goals, but no you just hear this or that and come here and post trash.. Please real other post before u come here and flame us over somthing you heard or read in ONE post..</span><div></div>

[Troupez]

I find this to be very amusing: When in an xp group I like to use an aoe taunt when pulling grouped mobs. This used to be a great tactic. Now when I use my aoe taunt a mob or 2 of the group resist and run to the healer immediately killing him in a hit or 2. Total wipe =). Ain't it great Wouldn't be so bad in an open area where the healer is able to keep his distance but in tight spaced dungeons this is a killer. Just wondering if anyone else has ran into this problem

[Kasar]

<span><blockquote><hr>Troupez wrote:I find this to be very amusing: When in an xp group I like to use an aoe taunt when pulling grouped mobs. This used to be a great tactic. Now when I use my aoe taunt a mob or 2 of the group resist and run to the healer immediately killing him in a hit or 2. Total wipe =). Ain't it great Wouldn't be so bad in an open area where the healer is able to keep his distance but in tight spaced dungeons this is a killer. Just wondering if anyone else has ran into this problem<hr></blockquote>Seen it many times, run over to the mob, then have to chase them as they're running for the group.  You can always hit the HTL skill and be rooted, the proc doesn't seem to do much though when you can't get the mobs to attack you in the first place and they end up out of melee range as the casters try to flee. You obviously weren't in that mythical situation where guardians are the best choice as a tank.  Now you know.  Avoid tanking anywhere there're mobs that will hit the group. </span><div></div>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Troupez wrote:<BR>I find this to be very amusing: When in an xp group I like to use an aoe taunt when pulling grouped mobs. This used to be a great tactic. Now when I use my aoe taunt a mob or 2 of the group resist and run to the healer immediately killing him in a hit or 2. Total wipe =). Ain't it great Wouldn't be so bad in an open area where the healer is able to keep his distance but in tight spaced dungeons this is a killer. Just wondering if anyone else has ran into this problem<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>try an instanced raid on pull of a named with some adds... pull with protect all of em resist it, great...  now that epics move at the speed of sound...  venomous cloud goes off...  raid wipe...  can only do this so many times before everyones gear is trashed and we have to zone out...  locked out...</P> <P>my guild is just learning these new zones, we expect to wipe: finding out the range of an AE, not enough healing on bad spikes, someone LD's at a bad time, DPS not letting the MT keep agro, ect...  but wipeing because of resisted taunts on a pull is unexceptable...  </P> <P>its not like i'm useing the ap2 bought in the courts, everything is adept3 or higher...  resisted taunts is the worst thing to hit the game...  i makes it so i can't gain agro...  my buffs are about worthless now for agro...  i don't have the dps to hold agro...  HtL doesn't proc through wards and get resisted...  no hate syhpons, wards, heals to help gain/maintain agro...</P> <P>to make taunts unresistable would be a start to fixing the class i've played 60 lvls in...  the rest of fixing guardians would be to scrap one of the intervene lines and give us something useful (heck it could be tracking for all i care), make tower shieds have AC or resistantace to frontal stuns/stiffles, and HtL should still proc threw wards...</P> <P>Wabit</P>

[TunaBoo]

Resisted protect master1 on a group raid mob is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].. mobs run so fast, they wipe the raid before you can react. We have no control over this happending.. on a pull, if they resist they resist. So 1/3 pulls wipes the raid.. nice <div></div>

[Skha]

<span></span>"Thank you, your feedback has been received. Your input will help us to provide the best possible playing experience. KK THX BYE"                                                                                        - SOE <div></div>

[Kasar]

When cancelling accounts there's an option in the feedback for changes to your class you didn't agree with. LOTS more questions about short playing time options though, and several dated questions.  Only got the questionaire on the pre-release account, the other one they apparently didn't care so much about.

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>EvilIguana966 wrote: Somone said something interesting in that other thread.  They said that guard taunts are mental, pal divine, etc etc.  That means that *gasp* some tank classes will do better on some mobs than others<hr></blockquote> WOW some useful information in a Guardian thread for a change. =P This might explain why a notice I have less resists and easier time holding aggro when Im grouped with players that debuff Mental. We have any proof that infact our taunts are mental based? </span><div></div>

[EvilIguana9]

<DIV>I am replying mostly to tunaboo, who is the epitome of the one tank only hard head.  I do think guardians need some work.  Anyone who read my post should have been able to get that much.  My point is that it is quite possible that Terrorantula is not intended to be tanked by guardians.  If what was said in that other thread is true then guardian taunts are based of mental resists, and thus mental resistant mobs will perhaps be better left to other tanks.  I personally like that taunts can be resisted.  Every offensive spell in the game has a resist check, why not these?  If the mob is immune to one type of spell then use another.  This is called strategy.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if you want some reason why I dislike Tunaboo so much perhaps you should read his post history.  Or just scroll up and see where he suggests that warrior only tower shields give him stun resistance and extra mitigation.  That isn't balance.  All plate fighters need a way to avoid being stunned so much, not just warriors.  </DIV>

[Gungo]

<DIV>Is the taunt resist type true for guard what are the other classes? </DIV> <DIV>Guard mental </DIV> <DIV>zerker (cold)?</DIV> <DIV>paladin divine</DIV> <DIV>Sk  (disease)?</DIV> <DIV>monk  (magic)?</DIV> <DIV>Bruiser (poisen)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if that is the case i think guards should get a second resist type for there taunts such as fire. of course this is all theory and the first time i have heard anything about resist types on taunts, but the theory is sound in order to resist a spell the spell has to have a resist type. It also proves how a brawlers taunts works better on terrantula compared to a gaurd. we are still learnign alot after the combat revamp. And this only further proves how important buffs and debuffs for resists can be. It would be great though if the spell noted what resist type the taunt was on. Or if guards are suppose to be the masters of agro they should have a mental debuff if that is thier resist type. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>10-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:04 AM</span>

[Raahl]

<P>While fighting in Harclave, yea I know it doesn't count, I really start getting taunts resisted when the mob is yellow with 1 or 2 up arrows.   It basically becomes a 50% chance to have it resisted.</P> <P>I cannot imagine how bad it gets with raid mobs.</P>

[TunaBoo]

<div></div><a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=138108"><span>EvilIguana966</span></a>:So you feel paladin should tank the same as a guardian, while haing higher DPS, heals, wards, and rez? You call me a hardhead, but want nothing more then to be unfairly overpowered.Do you think its fair when you cast aoe taunt on a group of 5 mons, and one runs off, aoes, and wipes the raid? Where is the player skill that causes that to happen?<div></div>

[Styk]

<P>I have a good question thou, playing devils advocate here but even if you throw in all those heals, wards etc blah blah blah a paladin has ARE THOSE USEFUL while  being stunned half the time by a raid mob ?  ( using a raid situation since group tanks is a toss up nowadays ) Now your better defense, hp buff etc etc as a guardian, is that also taken out of the equation when you are being stunned half the time by a raid mob ? </P> <P>I highly doubt it is, EVERY tank class has to deal with resisted taunts, dont try and say that guards have the most worries about taunt since if i remember correctly you have more direct taunts then i do + the fact that my dps gets cut by AT LEAST  half when using my defense stance ....... ( raid situation ok not group ) therefore should i complain and say that you having more taunts then i do in the warrior tree makes it unbalanced ? </P> <P>No , because i choose my class knowing that  i wont have as many taunts as you would.... </P> <P>So trying to say that a Paladin is more powerful then a Guardian as a tank because of rez, single,group heals and wards is assine because just like you guards they are stunned half the time as well tanking so that advantage gets negated quick while your better defense hp etc doesnt...</P> <P>GONE ARE THE DAYS OF GUARDIAN BEING THE ONLY TANK IN EVERYTHING.... as for something more meaningful for your class like proper protection line of arts etc instead of the OLD status quo pls because SoE isnt gonna give it back ...... </P>

[Balmore]

<P>Cut the crap. Did you see all people saying, Guardians should be the only tank?</P> <P>Taunts getting resisted is bad for all tanks especially Guardians.</P> <P>Folks, we need to get devs attention on this. Taunt resistance must be looked at.</P> <P>We don't mind the chance of taunts getting resisted BUT not when upgrade them. The chance should be much, much, much lower.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thank you!</P>

[Dr]

<P>An issue I have noticed as well is if you cast Protect (AE Taunt) on a group of mobs, and it lands on 1 or 2 mobs, but resists on others, you get the full recast timer on the taunt.  By the time the mobs come back to the group, they are all over the place and you are stuck trying to single target taunt the mobs back.</P> <P>Its a night mare and needs to be fixed.</P>

[Ladicav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Druv wrote:<BR> <P>An issue I have noticed as well is if you cast Protect (AE Taunt) on a group of mobs, and it lands on 1 or 2 mobs, but resists on others, you get the full recast timer on the taunt.  By the time the mobs come back to the group, they are all over the place and you are stuck trying to single target taunt the mobs back.</P> <P>Its a night mare and needs to be fixed.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>The funny thing is in Everquest 1, warriors had an AOE taunt and it was a useful and versatile tool.</P> <P>It did what it's name suggested, it AOE taunted. It didn't have a resist check, it just worked and even worked on the most uberest of epic gods. It wasn't overpowered and proficient use of it could sometimes save the party or the raid for that matter from a certain demise. </P> <P>In comes EQ2 and AOE taunt, isn't really. As soon as one or 2 mobs resist, they will usually find the casters. This already defeats the purpose of the spell to begin with since then you're most likely having to switch off Maddening Defense (another taunt over time) just to be able to move again and then go chasing the mobs that got away with your single target taunts. It's a complete schamozzal the way it is now. In fact taunting in general being resisted to the level it is now is a complete schamozzal overall.</P> <P>You're going to call me crazy, but I find even the hit or miss regular taunt, the AOE taunt and the weapon taunts of EQ1 combined produced a more reliable system of agro generation that what is current in EQ2, and EQ2 is meant to be the more current of the 2.</P>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Styker wrote:<BR> <P>So trying to say that a Paladin is more powerful then a Guardian as a tank because of rez, single,group heals and wards is assine because just like you guards they are stunned half the time as well tanking so that advantage gets negated quick while your better defense hp etc doesnt...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>in raid situation, even while stifled, stuned, ect...  pally still has the hate syphon working on 1-5 ppl in his group if it gets hacked...  i don't have the % in front of me and the forums are acting funny so i'm not goona do a seach for the %...  but with our HtL skills getting resisted as much as protect/confront we have no means of gaining hate while stiffled, stunned, ect...  that alone gives the paly an advantage in tanking...  all the defence, HP, mit in the world will do me no good if i can't gain/maintian agro...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>its not about being the only tank, we aren't even a vaiable tank in these situations...  our buffs don't generate crap for hate, our HtL gets resisted and doesn't proc threw wards, our regular direct taunts are resisted, our attack taunts can either miss or have the hate part resisted (and they will have full recast timer), we don't have the dps to hold agro that way...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i still consider the resisted taunts to be the worst change in the revamp...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wabit</DIV>

[Tro]

<DIV>You really cant compare EQ1's AE taunt to EQ2's AE Taunts. EQ1 AE taunt was on a 15 minute reuse timer (Atleast it was when I left) so on raids if you needed it you got one shot. It was limited by range also, so if several mobs were out of it's range, you still had mobs banging on other healers/casters.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This to me was more useful in a group situation vice a raid. Actually very useful in a group but you still had to worry about that 15 min reuse timer. The taunt skill coupled with Bazu Bellow, hate Procs and the right AA's was usually enough to hold aggro pretty well. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as EQ2 taunts being resisted, I certainly don't like it. I was not aware that Guardian taunts were mental based.. Would like some confirmation on that if anyone can please.. If each of the fighters taunts are based on a resist then I would love to see a list of them so we know.. I do not raid at the moment but in groups it really does suck when they get resisted. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They should get rid of the resists period,  for all fighters.. Just make all of them unresistable.. Whats so unbalanced about that?  I can't see folks complaining about that but then again.. we probably would.. god knows why but yea we probably would. </DIV>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>lemme guess who debuffs mental, enchanters? well let me see theres like 1 enchanter per server soo...</DIV>

[TunaBoo]

Taunts are mental it seems. Take a mob our taunts suck on extra. Then try to have a chanter nuke. They seem to be tied together, we can't hit what chanters can't nuke. Here is what I have found so far on my debuff quest a) Chanters get a mental debuff. Problem is, the debuff is a mental nuke.. so it doesn't work on the mobs we need it to. b) Inquisitor get a divine dot with a 700 point mental debuff (level 53 or 54 is the t6 one). This one works really well. c) Scouts can use a mental debuff poison. However on the mental immune mobs, this is also resisted heavily. So A and C tend to be resisted on the mobs we need it debuffed. B may work on everything, not 100% sure if the dot can hit and just the debuff be resistred on. <div></div>

[Ladicav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trook wrote:<BR> <DIV>You really cant compare EQ1's AE taunt to EQ2's AE Taunts. EQ1 AE taunt was on a 15 minute reuse timer (Atleast it was when I left) so on raids if you needed it you got one shot. It was limited by range also, so if several mobs were out of it's range, you still had mobs banging on other healers/casters..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>The comparison was more along the line of, EQ1 had far less taunt abilities than what EQ2 Guardians currently have, yet I feel EQ1 taunts were more versatile, and I also feel they were a lot more reliable. Even though AOE taunt in EQ1 was one shot, it was extremely reliable, used properly, it would always make the mob(s) turn to you, no questions asked. BTW with prudent selection of AA points you could reduce the resuse timer on AOE taunt to 10 minutes. The AOE taunts in EQ2 are also range limited same as it was in EQ1, so it's not like the EQ1 version was the only one that has this restriction.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>This to me was more useful in a group situation vice a raid. Actually very useful in a group but you still had to worry about that 15 min reuse timer. The taunt skill coupled with Bazu Bellow, hate Procs and the right AA's was usually enough to hold aggro pretty well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as EQ2 taunts being resisted, I certainly don't like it. I was not aware that Guardian taunts were mental based.. Would like some confirmation on that if anyone can please.. If each of the fighters taunts are based on a resist then I would love to see a list of them so we know.. I do not raid at the moment but in groups it really does suck when they get resisted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They should get rid of the resists period,  for all fighters.. Just make all of them unresistable.. Whats so unbalanced about that?  I can't see folks complaining about that but then again.. we probably would.. god knows why but yea we probably would.</DIV> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>My "feeling" is that taunts in EQ2 are not reliable, it's like press the button, and pray it lands. There is no real skill involved. AOE taunt is a dogs breakfast the way it works now. What is the point of AOE taunt if a number of mobs just ignore it anyway, and go bashing up the mana users. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>It's a comical scene watching the Guardian drop AOE taunt, some mobs just run to the casters, Guardian has to remove HTL line spell to stop being rooted to the spot, Then, if he has it ready, may use Rescue line to get agro back on one of them, then chase the remaining mobs, then start spamming regular taunts, which any number of those also can be resisted, to try and remove the mobs from the caster(s). I'm not sure this is the kind of scenario a class that is touted to be the best at taunt generation and retention by Moorgard himself, even supports this claim, in any form.</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>