Plate or Vanguard

[laxi26]

<DIV>Of all the arguments that have been going on here there is one thing that has bothered me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realise that all the archtypes are supposed to be able to tank the same but when I bought the game I read the manual over and over because I wanted to be sure what kind of toon I would be making.  In the end it came down to Guardian or Beserker and I chose Guardian.. wanna know why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look at your manual and see what kind of armor Guardians and Beserkers are supposed to be able to wear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian: Heavy, vanguard and plate</DIV> <DIV>Beserker: Heavy, plate only</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beserkers can wear vanguard now.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the devs and managers at SOE.  I don´t know exactly how you Americans do business but in most parts of the world you put out a product with a description of what it is and how it works.  If you change the product dramatically then it is no longer the same product so you either put out a new one with a new name or advertise that your product is going to change.  What you don´t seem to realise is that we the players are PAYING customers.  Nothing about this game is what it was supposed to be according to the manual.  Personally I find it very rude of you to do this, I know I would not get away with it in my business (hehe imagine my advertiseing a horse renal and when you come to the farm I would put you on cows hehehehehe).  This is/was a great game but WoW seems to have the advantage now... they know what they are selling and are not changing the way the game is played down the road.  A friend of mine who got me to play EQ moved to WoW, and I´m starting to wonder whether I should join him, but then it´s just 2 accounts you loose.. so what... you have plenty of others for now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodwolf of Oggok</DIV>

[Kriddle Kraddle]

<DIV><EM>If you change the product dramatically then it is no longer the same product so you either put out a new one with a new name or advertise that your product is going to change.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>They have always said the game could change. That being said I agree that they mislead a lot of people and should have adjusted accordingly.</DIV>

[Krooner]

<P>Its Simple to fix.</P> <P>Nerf everyone who was not suppose to wear Vanguard gear to platemail.  Drop the mit and stats and Walla. Problem fixed in the traditional SOE way... NERF</P> <P>/Sarcasm off</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:28 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class=date_text>10-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:35 PM</span>

[Grumm]

<DIV>I been throwing out them little tid bits here and there in posts whenever someone trys to say guardians were broken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the guardians were never broken, just to one dementional for it to attract a variaty of people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when choosing your class, what did you do to research it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you read up on it and asked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>some people wanted to tank.</DIV> <DIV>and some people also do one or more of the following - heal/FD/mend/lifetap/drain/DPS,rez, ect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>plain and simply a choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it was worded in the manual as one thing  and stated as a mistake in how the classes work in Dev posts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to change gears mid way and redirect is pretty harsh, the game is not EQ1, its nolonger EQ2, its now EQ3</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I didnt choose this Class I presently play  to be moved into EQ3, I chose this class for EQ2 based on how EQ2 was written to be played.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>one good side note, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do feel pretty good as a guardian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just hope they truly dont try to Balance out the classes to much, let us shine in tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and dont nerf the others, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My best quote is  "theres a differnce between "best" and "Only", here lies the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ReviloTX]

<DIV>It leaves a real bad taste in my mouth everytime they go and change the "rules" of the game.  They are numerous, and to name a few to show what I'm talking about:  attuneable items, guild patrons (more or less the entire system and how it works), interdependancy in tradeskills, no drop items, and now class roles.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't mind additional content being added, bugs being fixed, and minor tweaks to help balance classes, but totally changing the rules of the game really ticks me off.</DIV>

[Kynlo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ReviloTX wrote:<BR> <DIV>It leaves a real bad taste in my mouth everytime they go and change the "rules" of the game.  They are numerous, and to name a few to show what I'm talking about:  attuneable items, guild patrons (more or less the entire system and how it works), interdependancy in tradeskills, no drop items, and now class roles.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't mind additional content being added, bugs being fixed, and minor tweaks to help balance classes, but totally changing the rules of the game really ticks me off.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/agree

[Ironmeow]

wow i forgot theres a "plate" armor type. That would make sense, guaridans vanguard, zerkers plate. plate bieng slightly less mitigation than vanguard to give guardians the overal more mitigation. Wow that makes a lot of sense wonder why that never made it to the game.

[TunaBoo]

I don't mind if we wear the same armor, but we need the effect. I.e. a self long term mitigation buff. Not 1000.. but a few 100 at adept3 at level 60 is reasonable. <div></div>

[Airog]

I would be happy at this point if they introduced Guard only armor with extra MIT (physical and arcane), enough to "balance" us out and make us true MIT tanks, and while they are at it, tower shields can add to Physical/arcane MIT instead of avoidance.

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>sure..why not, eh? Just go ahead and nerf the other plate classes who already wear vanguard! sounds GREAT! As if other plate classes dont need a boost as well. You people are so busy trying to trump bruisers and monks in tanking..that you dont mind if every other plate tank gets a nerf, right? As long as you guys come ahead who cares! SUPER!</P> <P>You already have an advantage against every other tank class, with the exception of bruisimonks. Stop crying. Maybe if you guys made a point about every plate tank class needing love, something would happen, but all I see is the "nerf every other tank so we can be leet again" mentality. </P> <P>I come in to your forums backing you guys.</P> <P>I agree that guards needs a boost somewhere.</P> <P>But your incessant crying about nerfing other tanks just so you people benefit is pathetic. How about banding together as plate tanks to try to get us fixed instead of crying for EVEN more nerfs on the rest of us. As if Paladins, Berserkers, and SK's can tank better than you people. How sad.</P>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> laxi2610 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the devs and managers at SOE.  I don´t know exactly how you Americans do business but in most parts of the world you put out a product with a description of what it is and how it works.  <FONT color=#ffff00>If you change the product dramatically then it is no longer the same product so you either put out a new one with a new name or advertise that your product is going to change.  What you don´t seem to realise is that we the players are PAYING customers</FONT>.  Nothing about this game is what it was supposed to be according to the manual.  Personally I find it very rude of you to do this, I know I would not get away with it in my business (hehe imagine my advertiseing a horse renal and when you come to the farm I would put you on cows hehehehehe).  This is/was a great game but WoW seems to have the advantage now... they know what they are selling and are not changing the way the game is played down the road.  A friend of mine who got me to play EQ moved to WoW, and I´m starting to wonder whether I should join him, but then it´s just 2 accounts you loose.. so what... you have plenty of others for now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodwolf of Oggok</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I realize this doesnt address your topic about vanguard versus plate, but remember we are not paying for a product here.  The monthly fee is a <EM>subscription</EM> that lets us log into SOE's servers and consume whatever they have laid out for us to do.  Kind of like a magazine subscription, you get to read as much or as little as you like of each issue they publish, but ultimately they are the ones that decide what it's going to be, and it does change from month to month.</P> <P>I don't like a lot of the nerfs to the guardians either, but realize that we pay for the right to slip into whatever suit of armor they prepare for us to wear, and smack the monsters they prepare for us to smack, in zones that they prepare for us to run around in.  We really don't get any more say-so in that content than we do in which articles appear in this month's issue of the magazines, or what dishes are on the menu at our favorite restaurant.  That's how we Americans do business  :smileywink:<BR></P>

[TunaBoo]

And we also vote with our money. If the product sucks, we leave to go play WoW or vanguard. If SOE doesn't listen to obvious problems, they will not make any money and will go out of buisness. <div></div>

[Allowin]

<DIV> <P>I realize this doesnt address your topic about vanguard versus plate, but remember we are not paying for a product here.  The monthly fee is a <EM>subscription</EM> that lets us log into SOE's servers and consume whatever they have laid out for us to do.  Kind of like a magazine subscription, you get to read as much or as little as you like of each issue they publish, but ultimately they are the ones that decide what it's going to be, and it does change from month to month.</P> <P>I don't like a lot of the nerfs to the guardians either, but realize that we pay for the right to slip into whatever suit of armor they prepare for us to wear, and smack the monsters they prepare for us to smack, in zones that they prepare for us to run around in.  We really don't get any more say-so in that content than we do in which articles appear in this month's issue of the magazines, or what dishes are on the menu at our favorite restaurant.  That's how we Americans do business  <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0><BR></P></DIV> <DIV>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so what if you paid for a sub to a fishing magazine and then 10 months later they decide that it shouldnt be a fishing magazine anymore?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now they want to make it a flower arrangement magazine about how to do table arrangements with a mixture of flowers and colors?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>will you still keep that sub and read it every day/month bacause thats what THEY wanted to do? because THEY wanted to change it after you paid for it and have been paying for it for months? they told you it was going to be about fishing, and now its not....but hey. you said it yourself. you should do what they want you to do. that you have no right to question them and you should just read it because thats what your supposed to do.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Allowin on <span class=date_text>10-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:29 AM</span>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<P> </P> <P>I guess if I logged in and found out I had been changed permanently into a high elf bard, then yes I'd consider cancelling my subscription unless the idea of playing a bard appealed to me.  Again, like others I'm not as in love with my guardian as I used to be, but to suggest that the basics of the game have changed that much is hyperbole.<BR></P> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so what if you paid for a sub to a fishing magazine and then 10 months later they decide that it shouldnt be a fishing magazine anymore?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now they want to make it a flower arrangement magazine about how to do table arrangements with a mixture of flowers and colors?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Message Edited by Allowin on <SPAN class=date_text>10-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:29 AM</SPAN><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[Airog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <P>sure..why not, eh? Just go ahead and nerf the other plate classes who already wear vanguard! sounds GREAT! As if other plate classes dont need a boost as well. You people are so busy trying to trump bruisers and monks in tanking..that you dont mind if every other plate tank gets a nerf, right? As long as you guys come ahead who cares! SUPER!</P> <P>You already have an advantage against every other tank class, with the exception of bruisimonks. Stop crying. Maybe if you guys made a point about every plate tank class needing love, something would happen, but all I see is the "nerf every other tank so we can be leet again" mentality.</P> <P>I come in to your forums backing you guys.</P> <P>I agree that guards needs a boost somewhere.</P> <P>But your incessant crying about nerfing other tanks just so you people benefit is pathetic. How about banding together as plate tanks to try to get us fixed instead of crying for EVEN more nerfs on the rest of us. As if Paladins, Berserkers, and SK's can tank better than you people. How sad.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Who's calling to nerf other tanks?</DIV>

[a6eaq]

<P>uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:</P> <P>sure..why not, eh? Just go ahead and nerf the other plate classes who already wear vanguard! sounds GREAT! As if other plate classes dont need a boost as well. You people are so busy trying to trump bruisers and monks in tanking..that you dont mind if every other plate tank gets a nerf, right? As long as you guys come ahead who cares! SUPER!</P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Few are listening.  From reading and posting lately, many want to be the best tank period.  Too bad those that suggested that we go back to the manual and give Guardians Vanguard never bothered to read both Pallies and SKs because if they did, they would realize that the only plate class not to be in Vanguard as per the original manual were Zerkers.  Therefore, thay are calling for yet another nerf for Zerkers.  Guess they should pay for us having our knees cut out from under us, yeah that would make us all happier, nerf another class just to make us happy. /sarcasm off.</P> <P>We do need something.  But post LU15 my cobalt armor is doing just fine, so I am not sure more mit is neded, but I do not raid atm so I will not rule it out.</P><p>Message Edited by a6eaq on <span class=date_text>10-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:30 PM</span>

[laxi26]

I was not calling for a nerf on Zerkers with this post, just pointing out that many Guardians, myself included chose the class because of what the manual said.  If I had known that Zerkers could wear vanguard I would have rolled one.