Defensive vs. Offensive stances

[Screamin' 1]

I am curious about the experience of others, and the expectation of the devs w/ respect to defensive and offensive stances. I am sorry if this is covered elsewhere, but the two main threads on the subject of the guardian changes are so long, and have so much noise now, I just did not have the time to go through all of them. First, my expectation is this:  If I solo a pure melee class, I should end up with more hitpoints after a fight when using the defensive stance. The fight may take longer, but that is how it should pan out. If I want to go offensive, I may kill quicker, but the price I pay is that I have more of a chance of dying. The reality is quite the opposite from this from what I experienced the other night.  I did the Haunted House the other night. I have non-plate-tank friends who said it was a cake walk, they handled all three solo even con (two down arrow) mobs at the entrance no problem, even if they added all at once. At level 51, In defensive mode, with the SBS equipped, all indium, except for cobalt grieves, I could not handle one add, let alone two. The only thing I have going against me here is that my defensive mode is only App4 atm. (BTW, I had an imbued weapon) So, I switched to offense mode  (Adept 1) and zoned back in. I went into dual wield with one imbued weapon and the SBD.  I got adds from both mobs, took out the first two, and almost got the third but was out of pow and it was gonna be close, so I zoned. I tried again, this time conserved pow a bit better, and was able to finish them off. I may have switched to the PGT to get that chance for a bit of extra pow, I cannot recall. I did not parse the log, so I don't have hard numbers, but it did not seem that I was taking much more damage in offensive mode, even minus my shield. Any thoughts would be appreciated. This just seems backwards to me. <div></div>

[TunaBoo]

Our def stance slows our dps a little. Our off stances makes us die much much easier for not much more dps. I think in some situations like solo mobs, better off with just no stance... offensive stance is just when you need to burn down stuff fast reguardless of damage taken. Unlike monks, we have no mixed stances to be uber in. <div></div>

[Raahl]

Everytime I've tried using offensive stance I ended up switching back to defense to stay alive.  The few times I stayed in offensive I died.

[Shizzirri]

<P>Use your defensive stance in groups if your fighting yellow or higher, use your offensive stance when you need more strength to carry around those heavy bank boxes, or if your gear breaks and you can't move.</P> <P> </P>

[ReviloTX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Screamin' 103 wrote:<BR>First, my expectation is this:  If I solo a pure melee class, I should end up with more hitpoints after a fight when using the defensive stance. The fight may take longer, but that is how it should pan out. If I want to go offensive, I may kill quicker, but the price I pay is that I have more of a chance of dying.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I did some testing against solo con, non heroic non arrow mobs.  They were all melee mobs.  I did 2 fights in offensive and two fights in defensive.  Fights in offensive took roughly half the time to kill the mob.  I ended up with nearly the same HP at the end of all 4 fights.  Take it for what it's worth..<BR>

[Frostborne]

Here' s my take on stances: Offensive: When off tank. Defensive: When main tank. Neutral:  When solo, or if the mob is easy. <div></div>

[Aven Elonis]

<P>Hmm,</P> <P>When I solo - Off Mode</P> <P>When I MT - Def Mode</P> <P>If I use Def Mode, when soloing, I am 75% more likely to die than with Off Mode.</P> <P>Shouldn't be that way, but it is.</P> <P>Aven Elonis</P> <P>57 Guardian, Tempest, Steamfont</P>

[Screamin' 1]

<span><blockquote><hr>Aven Elonis wrote:<p>Hmm,</p> <p>When I solo - Off Mode</p> <p>When I MT - Def Mode</p> <p>If I use Def Mode, when soloing, I am 75% more likely to die than with Off Mode.</p> <p>Shouldn't be that way, but it is.</p> <p>Aven Elonis</p> <p>57 Guardian, Tempest, Steamfont</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Thanks for the replies everyone. It seems we have different experiences, but at least I am not crazy, since some others seem to notice the same thing. Maybe it varies by tier. </span><div></div>

[Shizzirri]

You can probably get away with using your offensive stance if you either have a ton of dps in your group or two healers.

[Kynlo]

<P>Solo or grouping = Offensive Stance, duial wield Legendaries</P> <P>Raid = Defensive stance, use shield w/ one-hander</P> <P> </P> <P>No real problems to speak of.</P>

[RafaelSmith]

The only way I solo is in Offensive Stance....which I have adept3 off. I try to buff up my STR as much as possbile and use a Imbued Cobalt 2hander when soloing.  I can notice a difference in kill rate. Basically if I cant kill it in max DPS mode then i really dont wanna be killing it cause it would be way to slow and boring. <div></div>

[Xibi]

<P>I'm almost always in offensive stance unless tanking in a raid.   Reason is offensive stance lets you hit yellows / oranges a lot better so you can keep aggro on them better.    If I'm in defensive stance, I can never hit a high yellow or orange mob due to having such low attack skills.   I admit I'm not one that likes rooting myself every [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fight (maddening defense line) because its just not necessary.   I hate annoying BS little things like that.   If casters are pulling mobs off left and right and dying, then yes I will use that spell line.  But most times I don't have to in normal groups.</P> <P>I've also never had a problem with dying in offensive stance.   Sometimes if I'm doing tough high yellow or orange named mobs I will switch to defensive stance and then rely on things like reinforcement / rescue to keep aggro since its only 1 mob.</P> <P>But my experience might be different than yours because I have all cobalt except rubicite BP and underworld leggings (t5 fabled).    At lower levels or less equipped gear, maybe defensive stance is necessary.</P>

[Timzil]

<P>I'm always in offensive stance, only switching to defensive when fighting yellow and higher heroics or white and higher names. I avoid our self-crippling temp stances like the plague. Figure if the mob ain't gonna debuff me there ain't no sense in doing it for him.</P> <P>Spudge, PH for a 57 Guardian</P>

[JNewby]

<P>hrm I never use offensive stance cause it is a useless str buff haha... and usually in exp groups its more important to save healer mana... unless i have 2 healers then.. i suppose def stance</P> <P> </P>

[knightinplaid]

Just because my regular group starts off with a build of myself a templar and a mystic, unless we plan on healing stuff to death I'm always in offensive. Even in a rounded group I'll keep it on unless we're playing with high yellow named or oranges and we have to worry about healer mana.

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>JNewby wrote:<p>hrm I never use offensive stance cause it is a useless str buff haha... and usually in exp groups its more important to save healer mana... unless i have 2 healers then.. i suppose def stance</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Uselss STR buff?  I dont think I would say that.  STR ups our auto-attack DMG and our Combat Art DMG as well as increasing our Power Pool. I notice a significant increase in kill rate both grouped and solo when I use Offensive stance. ALSO our Offense stance gives us even more "to hit" bonuses.   I actuall have an easier time maintaing aggro when in offensive stance than when in defensive.  Perhaps the more frequest auto-attack hits is helping. Anyhow in my groups unless its a really tough mob(orange ^^^ &gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...we kill faster when I am in Offensive stance and the healers dont use any more mana...if anything they use less. </span><div></div>