cobalt armor upgraded, curse or blessing?

[Skr]

Ok so the cobalt armor stats got increased, which for some people and especially those in a non raid guild this is great. For those of us that have worked our butt off for our fabled gear, spent 6 months of solid raiding everyday and played the game for this purpose it totally blows. With the recent increase in mitigation, I now have to replace all my t5 fabled gear with cobalt. This really makes me and other people in this situation feel like we wasted months of our time. We didnt put that much time and effort in so that we can run around looking like and wearing the same exact gear as the ebay toon next to us. We also dont want to start over every expansion from nothing. I dont enjoy grinding levels but its acceptable. Depreciating everything we worked hard for is not acceptable. I dont disagree with the stats on cobalt. I disagree with the stats on t5 fabled. T5 fabled gear should be slightly better then cobalt. The stats are fine but the mitigation sucks now. Also, I dont see the purpose in why t5 fabled weapons dont work on t6 epic mobs. If you are a person that plays the game to raid then you can agree that crafted rare armor is basically starter gear for raids. So if all the new t6 crafted gear is superior to all the fabled we got spending 5-6 months of solid raiding everyday then whats the point? Sure maybe the first few times that epic instance was fun, maybe there was meaning to it. But after the 50th time of farming the same zones over and over for the sake of gearing up a raid force, its just not the same. Sure its still worth the time assuming the gear is to help strengthen the team, but in this case, what exactly is it strengthening? I want to know that my time spent and what I play the game for means something. There is already plenty of meaning for casual gamers, its pretty trivial to be able to log in once a week and spend 2 hours harvesting and come out with 1 or 2 cobalt pieces. Sadly after all this effort and after this much of an investment of time into this game, (not to mention what ive left behind on eqlive to come here in hopes this would be fun for another 5 years) I have only to reconsider whether or not this will be something that will suit me for a few years or if this will end up being just another time filler until something more promising comes along. Lets face it, SWG was horrible if you were a fan of eqlive. If you never played an SOE game then you might enjoy it but really, when are we going to get another great SOE game? Lets face it, most people loved eqlive. They loved it for obvious reasons. Reasons I see missing from any and all the new SOE games. I guess my question is, are you planning on coming out with another game similar to eqlive? I feel this game could have worked out for everyone. Unfortunately I dont see it working out for people that want to raid and feel a sense of progression. Pre dof, I felt like I was making progress and working toward something, thats my enjoyment and reason for playing and while it might differ from others, its still a reason a lot of people play. Right now I am left with only the feeling that all the time I put in was for nothing, since every 6 months when a new expansion is launched, I have to throw out everything ive earned and replace it with t6 crafted, which takes maybe a couple days to farm a full set or maybe 20p in coin, both of which are a minor time investment. <div></div>

[Erronn]

<DIV>Depends on the way SOE has designed it...should T5 fabled be better than any T6 armor except T6 fabled? It's a full tier below! I'm not a raider, so can't look at any fabled gear, but is T5 rare crafted better than T4 fabled? If so, then the way it is works. If not, then looks like a valid complaint.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Errokk</DIV>

[Kfi]

<P>Skyre well said. Good to see another Mistmoore guardian trying to defend our class. Now maybe if I would quit chatting here, I could be 60 also..</P> <P> </P> <P>Drak Ula<BR>55 Guardian Mistmoore</P>

[Corv]

<span><blockquote><hr>Skrye wrote:Ok so the cobalt armor stats got increased, which for some people and especially those in a non raid guild this is great. For those of us that have worked our butt off for our fabled gear, spent 6 months of solid raiding everyday and played the game for this purpose it totally blows. With the recent increase in mitigation, I now have to replace all my t5 fabled gear with cobalt. This really makes me and other people in this situation feel like we wasted months of our time. We didnt put that much time and effort in so that we can run around looking like and wearing the same exact gear as the ebay toon next to us. We also dont want to start over every expansion from nothing. I dont enjoy grinding levels but its acceptable. Depreciating everything we worked hard for is not acceptable. <div></div><hr></blockquote>This patch changes nothing.  By the time you reach your mid-50's Tier5 fabled is so heavly penalized by item-level that it's mitigation is actually worse than T6 *treasured*.  For example, at level 60, treasured kromtar greaves looted off of trash in PoF give me a whopping 1.3% more mitigation (mouse over the raw mitigation value in your profile to see the % mitigation)  than Tier5 fabled.  The percent mitigation is the value you should be looking at to judge gear, not the raw mitigation number.  Mitigation is *not* just mitigation.  It's modified by item level.  Your raw mitigation can go down while your percent mitigation simulatneously goes up thanks to this. Yes, the recent improvements to Cobalt have not made your T5 fabled obsolete.  T6 treasured armor had already done that.  After spending 30g on the broker to buy a bunch of T6 treasured junk you'll tank far better than you do currently in T5 fabled.  Hurry up and farm some T6 fabled though so you have time to enjoy it before the next expansion!</span><div></div>

[Exill]

The problem I see with the way the tier system is working now is simply this:When leveling 1-10 it probably would only take 1 dayWhen leveling 11-20 maybe 3 or 4 daysLeveing 21-30 maybe a week30-40 a few weeks40-50 maybe a monthAfter you are 50 though you can no longer progress and you will remain in that tier until next expantion or until a new tier is released.-The problem I see is look how much time you are spending in each tier. Thus if a T3 crafted item is better then a T4 fabled item - no one really cares because you will have SOON leveled out of that tier.Now people will argue well T5 crafted is better then T4 fabled so T6 crafted should be better then T5 fabled. While that may be true with T4 and T5 look at the time spent in each tier:You will most likely only spend a few weeks in tier 4 while you could potentially have been in tier 5 for over 9 months. This being said it is a much harder transition from T5 to T6 because of the long amount of time spent in T5.The same thing is going to happen with T6, we are not due to see another big expantion for at least 6 months and even then who knows if they will increase the game to a 7th tier.The longer time spent in each tier the greater sense of loss when you must move on. So when every new tier is released and the adept 1s and crafted armor is better then all your master 1s and fabled armor SoE is esentually de-progressing your character. While SoE has good intent by trying to prevent mudflation I feel they are going about it the wrong way.Who honestly wants to play a game where your gear and spells get completely whiped out every 6 months? They are giving people a false sense of progression when really they turned the game into one big meaningless timesink.<div></div>

[Skr]

Yes, and a few other points. T6 treasured is not better then T5 fabled. Some of the stats are pretty level between the 2 but treasured gear doesnt have those effects on it. I can accept having to replace all my t5 fabled gear but only with other fabled gear. I want to know that the 6 months I spent gearing up my guild will mean something against the new t6 epic mobs. That doesnt mean I want to be able to own every t6 epic mob, it simply means that I want to feel a sense of preparation. Currently I have to decide between prismatic or cobalt 1hs, or my cryptic metallic cuirass or cobalt bp. My cobalt bp has 60 more ac then the fabled cryptic, but the cryptic has 7 sta, an attack slow proc and 300 dmg dd proc on it. Its sad to have to throw away all my nice effects just to have my mitigation up to par just to start off on the smaller raid mobs. I could see replacing it as I progress, but having to put it all in the bank and run around with cobalt (which looks exactly like ebon, which in turn looks exactly like fulginate) just for the sake of bringing my mitigation up to an acceptable raiding level is obsurd. It just feels like im starting the game from day 1 every time a new expansion is released. I have to grind all the way to max level, and wait on others to grind, and I also have to start all over with my gear. Its bad enough those last 2 months before dof I spent farming some of the rest of my gear and only getting to use it against the same epic mobs weve already been farming for months. Theres no groups for aa exp so whats the fun in having this special gear to play with when it didnt really allow you to do too much more in the first place? So I got a cryptic bp off a mob we farmed 30 times before it dropped, which in turn helped me farm him another 50 times? Well, I guess Ill enjoy my new blue breastplate, and my banker will enjoy the cryptic. <div></div>

[Moontayle]

<P>Maybe I'm jaded after spending 3 years in Everquest, but whenever I hear about a new expansion coming out that adds new content and also raises the level cap, the first thing that enters my mind is that equipment will need to be upgraded somewhere along the way to the next level cap. EQ2 does things a bit differently in that each ten levels is its own tier of content but EQ1 had a similar set up with their raids:</P> <P>Kunark -> Velious -> Temple of Veeshan -> Luclin -> Planes of Power -> Gates of Discord... etc.</P> <P>They filtered out a lot of the upgrade path over the years, so that people could do single group content (LDoN) to get Luclin quality uber gear if enough time was spent on it, but on the bleeding edge of things people raided to upgrade their gear. EQ2 has taken that back a step, but not entirely because the best gear is <EM>still</EM> raided for. It's in the preperation for the next tier of raiding that things have changed here, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It actually evens the field a bit in the middle ground and eventually opens up the raiding game a bit more. </P> <P>That said, I think SOE made a mistake by leaving the current T5 Fabled with their low level requirement. We're seeing T6 Fabled enter the game with level 58 requirements so I have to wonder why they didn't go back and do similar requirements for the T5 stuff. It's not like a level 40 person could actually have hope of participating in the raids to get this gear. Make no mistake, it's the level 40 requirement that's bringing T5 Fabled down below T6 Legendary and Treasured.</P> <P>But again, if you didn't expect to upgrade your gear with the new expansion, then I don't know what to tell you.</P>

[Skr]

No, I expected to upgrade all my gear. Just not in this manner. <div></div>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Erronn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Depends on the way SOE has designed it...should T5 fabled be better than any T6 armor except T6 fabled? It's a full tier below! I'm not a raider, so can't look at any fabled gear, but is T5 rare crafted better than T4 fabled? If so, then the way it is works. If not, then looks like a valid complaint.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Errokk</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aye this is the way its always been just nobody noticed. T5 legendary was better than t4 fabled.

[Corv]

<span><blockquote><hr>Skrye wrote:Yes, and a few other points. T6 treasured is not better then T5 fabled. <div></div><hr></blockquote>If you're tanking, replacing all your T5 fabled with T6 treasured for an extra 6+ % mitigation is a pretty huge deal.  The stats and effects on T5 fabled just don't make up for the huge loss in mitigation unless you're off-tanking.</span><div></div>

[Greyto]

<P>I know the guys in mostly fabled have had the luxury to EXP grind and raid, while I have had to hack rocks and put leveling off until I upgrade my gear. </P> <P>I ain't saying, I'm just saying....</P>

[Skr]

I dont get an extra 6% on any of the treasured I found over my t5 fabled. Not to mention I lose hps on some of it. My bp procs an attack slow which in turn lowers the amount of dmg i receive, not to mention stun procs, hp regens etc. Most of the treasured ive gotten is practically the same ac as t5 fabled. Boots of the undead gnoll captain for example, are not 1 point more or less then my vanguard sabatons of fortification, which add +45 vs pierce/slash/crush. <div></div>

[Corv]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Skrye wrote:I dont get an extra 6% on any of the treasured I found over my t5 fabled. <div></div><hr></blockquote>That's going to depend on your level Skrye.  By 60 you will.  </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Corvan on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 PM</span>

[Gungo]

<DIV>Skye wrote :</DIV> <DIV>"Most of the treasured ive gotten is practically the same ac as t5 fabled. Boots of the undead gnoll captain for example, are not 1 point more or less then my vanguard sabatons of fortification, which add +45 vs pierce/slash/crush. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your also comparing the actual mtigation value on each armour peice to each other. The fact is 300 mitgation on a lvl 55 treasured item is actually more <STRONG>realized</STRONG> mitgation then a 300 mitgation lvl 40 fabled item. your actual mitigation % will go up using that treasured item. Seriously though if they are going to scale gear by tier i would be very happy if they gave me soem sort of value to compare a t5 item vs a t6 item. Other then actually attuning an item equiping it to see my % increase or lower.<BR></DIV>

[Timzil]

Why would you want to wear T5 clothes in a T6 world?

[Moontayle]

I think they're working on correcting this. It's the same problem as with bonus damage being reduced as your stat cap increases.

[knightinplaid]

<DIV>Knowing how the first 11 months of the game all the equipement was designed around tiering system I went into DoF fully expecting I'd have to replace all my T5 gear with T6 at some point. When they announced a new level cap it was plain right off the bat that everyone would be entering level 50-60 at a much more level playing field. It does kind of stink to take it on the chin and have to give up some nice T5 fabled, I know I did, and removing gear cons made the change that more abrupt instead of the bleed-over the first couple levels into the next tier, but I can't see how anyone who was familiar with how the game worked before the expansion see this as a real surprise or error.</DIV>

[AsheBail]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Exill wrote:<BR>The problem I see with the way the tier system is working now is simply this:<BR><BR>When leveling 1-10 it probably would only take 1 day<BR><BR>When leveling 11-20 maybe 3 or 4 days<BR><BR>Leveing 21-30 maybe a week<BR><BR>30-40 a few weeks<BR><BR>40-50 maybe a month<BR><BR>After you are 50 though you can no longer progress and you will remain in that tier until next expantion or until a new tier is released.<BR><BR>-<BR><BR>The problem I see is look how much time you are spending in each tier. Thus if a T3 crafted item is better then a T4 fabled item - no one really cares because you will have SOON leveled out of that tier.<BR><BR>Now people will argue well T5 crafted is better then T4 fabled so T6 crafted should be better then T5 fabled. While that may be true with T4 and T5 look at the time spent in each tier:<BR><BR>You will most likely only spend a few weeks in tier 4 while you could potentially have been in tier 5 for over 9 months. This being said it is a much harder transition from T5 to T6 because of the long amount of time spent in T5.<BR><BR>The same thing is going to happen with T6, we are not due to see another big expantion for at least 6 months and even then who knows if they will increase the game to a 7th tier.<BR><BR>The longer time spent in each tier the greater sense of loss when you must move on. So when every new tier is released and the adept 1s and crafted armor is better then all your master 1s and fabled armor SoE is esentually de-progressing your character. While SoE has good intent by trying to prevent mudflation I feel they are going about it the wrong way.<BR><BR>Who honestly wants to play a game where your gear and spells get completely whiped out every 6 months? They are giving people a false sense of progression when really they turned the game into one big meaningless timesink.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You may have a point except for one thing.  Ignoring levels 1 thru 10, the player is the one who chooses the rate they level at.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if a player chooses to ignore alot of content to level to the max in a short time, then when the max is raised again, that player may value his pre-new max armor more because of the time taken to get and has worn it, feeling regret having to replace it for new improved next tier gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been in my 30s for 7 months because I turned off my XP and focus on quest XP.  I have rare crafted stuff I saved for and got over much time.  Do I value it over my newbie IoR gear due time spent getting it and will regret having to replace it at 40?  Yes.  Do I condemn having tiers 5 and 6 above me?  No.</DIV>

[Gungo]

<P>I would think that if fabled armour would only have a life tied to within its tier. They should at least make fabled metal chest items off raids a higher drop rate then what it currently stands. There is no reason why any guild would kill t5 raid mobs now fully knowing that gear is useless in a few lvls. I have no problem w needing gear in t6 to take out t6 raid mobs. The two problems i have with gear tiering is the rediculous drop rates on soem of these mobs. As well as the lack of values to compare armour between tiers/level. </P> <P>My opinion is increase the fabeld drop rates on some of the T6 raid mobs, and especially the T5 raid mobs. No reason anyone should do Drayek or any t5 mob w a drop rate of about 20%ish. Increase the itemization tables of these raid mobs to iclude several all/all items as well as a few rarer class specific items. Use logical itemization to make certain raid mobs contain specific class related gear or sets. You began this with T5 but complelely left this out of T6 atm. If SoE feels the need to place useless epic x3 or x4 raid mobs that don't even drop decent gear please add a quest started or special tradeskill items off these mobs  That result in unique legendary items. Basically all i am asking is makign the epics that are always up and no one desires to kill a reason to be killed. raid mobs liek rahotep should have a chance to drop a fabeld chest even if its involved in a quest this raid doesnt need its own loot table since SoE is already fond of Zone wide loot tables that is all that is needed. My point is all epics should have a reasonable chance to drop fabled or decent legendary loot. Especially since the life time of these items are tied to tier.</P>

[lazlo1]

I agree with Gungo. After raiding for several months pre DoF I got 1 fabled item.  The reward is just not there given the lifetime of these items. If SOE is gona wipe out the fables items with each expansion at least make them a  reasonable drop rate. Because of this and other reasons my raiding days are over for a while. <div></div>

[Raahl]

<P>IMO</P> <P>T6 any armor > T5 Fabled.</P>

[Gungo]

Yes and sadly this would be the optimal time for them to up the drop rate. If they increased fabeld drop rates on all epic to at least a minimum 80%+ on t5 no one would care since that gear is useless to those guilds that have these fabled. And in T6 now would be the time instead of waitign several months when the power raiders already have a near complete  set of t6 fabled and they then increase the drp rate thus [Removed for Content] off those players. The devs respone to this is prolly in the area of "itemization of raid sneeds time" my response is itemization is one of the core features of an expansion and should of been included with release. Now Bugs will always happen, but a total lack of t6 raid loot is just poor implementation. although I have no doubt we will get new items added to raid mobs in tier 6,.

[Frostborne]

Or they should just put in some T6 fabled gear <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><span><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:Yes and sadly this would be the optimal time for them to up the drop rate. If they increased fabeld drop rates on all epic to at least a minimum 80%+ on t5 no one would care since that gear is useless to those guilds that have these fabled. And in T6 now would be the time instead of waitign several months when the power raiders already have a near complete  set of t6 fabled and they then increase the drp rate thus [Removed for Content] off those players. The devs respone to this is prolly in the area of "itemization of raid sneeds time" my response is itemization is one of the core features of an expansion and should of been included with release. Now Bugs will always happen, but a total lack of t6 raid loot is just poor implementation. although I have no doubt we will get new items added to raid mobs in tier 6,. <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Skr]

Im not comparing t4 fabled to treasured, im comparing t5. Ive been 60 for 2 weeks now, and I have one pair of treasured that is questionably close to my t5 fabled legs, but since there isnt any effect I went with the t6 treasured due to a slight increase in HPs. Other then that, the mitigation is pretty much the same. I dunno what t5 fabled you wear but I have some really nice pieces, and I have yet to see a t6 treasured taking my fabled gear to the bank. Ya, item tearing etc, saying that t5 rare is better then t4 fabled, thats fine. But max level and raiding didnt actually start until t5. I knew I would have to replace all my t5 fabled, I had no problem with that, as I played eqlive for 5 years and always knew that. Problem is, and especially comparing this to eqlive,(which im sure ill get flamed for saying this) is that all the raid gear then was still better then most normal loot after an expansion, in fact far superior still to most. Raiding was a bit more progressional then as you had to gear up your guild with loot off boss mobs in order to stand up and kill the next one. Now I have no problem with the crafted gear in this game, but I have and always will be more attuned to believing that full fabled should put you more in a preparation state then full t6 crafted. It doesnt have to be much more, but enough to warrant me to still wear it as it takes quite a bit of work to get it all. It takes me 5 mins to go to the broker and get full t6 crafted, and the cost for doing that is very minor as its all old money built up since there was nothing to spend it on in the first place. If im going to replace my old pieces, it should be progressional. I guess my whole rant is really the fact that this game hasnt been progressional much at all so far. There simply needs to be a reason for acquiring all this fabled gear, its just too much of a timesink to be replaced with 7 cobalt clusters. Thank god they took ac off jewelery, at least theres one thing thats still worth having. If t5 fabled is going to be that far underpar and suck now then the t5 raids should be simple and farmable with 1 group of 60s. Either that or give us the option to select a harder difficulty setting of the t5 instance raid zones which would give us the t6 version, and change the t5 contested to t6. There just isnt much of a point in having that many t5 contested mobs as it takes a pretty well advanced guild to take most of them out and I dont see anything but pickup raids going after them now other then the guild xp associated with them there really isnt much of a point in farming them for their loot unless its jewelery or a level 50 master spell. <div></div>

[Danter]

<DIV>I think T5 fabled's mitigation should be equal to T6 Cobalt.  I also think there's no reason why a weapon or armor piece should stop working because it "greys out".  The whole logical concept of that idea is absurd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 60, you can farm the T5 raid zones with hardly any risk, so that should result in less of a reward.  This is why T6 stuff should be on par with T5 fabled and not surpassed by it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my opinion, the flaws with itemization is that:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-x3 and x4 raid mobs should always drop fabled.  Gathering 18-24 people for a raid and netting a wood chest with crap inside makes raiding frustrating and not worthwhile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Make T6 Fabled on par with T5 fabled's stats and procs.  Common sense...not sure why Cobalt gear's stats are better than half the T6 fableds out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it stands now with the current Master drop rate on the epics out there, it takes 75-100 raids (depending on luck) to get every person in a 24 man raid party 1 piece of fabled.  That is ridiculous.</DIV>

[Skr]

Yes I agree. Getting wooden chests off raid mobs is stupid. Although, I wouldnt say t5 raids are low risk, in fact even at 60, zones like spirits of the lost are pretty much impossible to get too far in. Now, I do see they did a patch to the dmg epic mobs do, and hopefully they are tuned more properly for some of the t5 raids. As far as the instanced t5 raids go where you zone in and fight 1 epic boss, I have yet to go back and do one since theres really no point in it now. And yes, the t6 fabled is nice but where are the procs? Im sure they exist and I can see getting procless gear off heroic mobs or instance zones but why is the t6 raid loot not up to par? What I dont understand is why there isnt more treasured gear with effects on it. Thats part of what made gear in eqlive more desirable to have. This is also a big part of why 99% of the treasured loot Ive gotten went to the vendor. T5 fabled mitigation equal to cobalt is how it should be. It makes no sense why my t5 fabled has 50 hp, and all the stats I would want but the cobalt has 35 hp, some cheesy stats but 40 more ac. So now I have to decide, is it better to have 250 more ac, or 500 more hps and some effects. <div></div>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>who cares about stats , cobalt looks like crap right now and that needs to be fixed. If all i cared about was numbers i'd use a pen and paper to play all my games.</DIV>

[Corv]

<span><blockquote><hr>Skrye wrote:Im not comparing t4 fabled to treasured, im comparing t5. Ive been 60 for 2 weeks now, and I have one pair of treasured that is questionably close to my t5 fabled legs, but since there isnt any effect I went with the t6 treasured due to a slight increase in HPs. Other then that, the mitigation is pretty much the same. I dunno what t5 fabled you wear but I have some really nice pieces, and I have yet to see a t6 treasured taking my fabled gear to the bank. <hr> Don't compare raw mitigation to raw mitigation.  Don't even look at the raw mitigation number in your profile.  It is meaningless. Equip both items one at a time and check the percent mitigation in your profile by mousing over the raw mitigation value and looking at what pops up.  At level 60 you will gain roughly 1 to 1.5% mitigation from swapping a T6 treasured item in for a T5 fabled item regardless of the fact that you lose raw mitigation.  </blockquote></span><div></div>

[Skr]

Yeah I see what you are saying. Thats even more messed up. Overall mitigation goes down, but % goes up. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Almost makes you wonder if thats even correct or if its some new number glitch. This all relates back to release of eq2 and that feeling of containment then I guess. Yeah, expansion came out, whoopty doo. I dont see there being more raid content, in fact I see a lot less now but Ill have to wait and see what gets unlocked. Unless they do something with the old world raid mobs, there will always be a lack of raid content since were to be contained. I guess its to be expected whenever the level cap is raised but not to this extreme. I certainly hope level cap dont go up every expansion. If this is SOEs idea of giving us more to do so that we dont get bored and keep paying the monthly fee then I certainly cant wait for the bigger, better deal to come out. Its not brain surgery. Theres no difference between being capped at 40 and contained in a level 40 zone as there is at 50 or 60. I can understand that it needs to happen every now and then for expansions but theres just so many more options. Personally I prefer level cap to stay the same for at least a few expansions. Just come out with more max level dungeons, harder mobs, better gear. This makes it purely progressional and keeps the older less challenging raid mobs still fun. Im tired of feeling spoonfed monotonous content. When you say expansion, that should mean that the availbility of stuff to do is expanded, not that theres just more of a gap between levels and everyone herding into the few level 60 zones there are. <div></div>

[Skr]

Ya, all I care about is stats. I wear a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] clownsuit if it has better stats. Its cool if armor looks cool but after playing soe games for 6 years ive given up hopes of armor looking cool. I mean hell, they could be designing armor to look original but instead they are making cheesy pumpkin head costumes. /cutemode ? Ya thats pretty cool but I mean seriously, when did everquest become a power puff girls mmo? While youre at it might as well add the gigglegibler hopscotch game. <div></div>

[thargnar]

<DIV>"At level 60 you will gain roughly 1 to 1.5% mitigation from swapping a T6 treasured item in for a T5 fabled item regardless of the fact that you lose raw mitigation."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doesnt sound too horrendous to me, that just means being fabled out at t5 lets you immediately pound into content like living tombs/silent city etc without having to bother upgrading armor for a new tier right away. Tough to do that with ebon or certainly just treasured from the previous tier like most tanks.  I'd say jumping straight into t6 content and not having to pick 20 hours of rocks first is a distinct advantage for fabled t5 players. Having armor wearable in the 40s last all the way to 60 and still be primo seems just a wee bit ridiculous to me unless it is some Epic quested item. I think the armor or weapon actually decaying because of level is we-todded, but it still shouldnt just be plain better or quite as good as the top end stuff from the new tier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I seem to recall seeing something in the range of zero percent of level 50s or even high 40s wearing t4 fabled so why on earth should a 60 still be wearing t5 fabled? The fact that its still an upgrade for offtanking at 60 over t6 legendary should be enough to keep ppl happy. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So is the cobalt uprade a blessing, yes. That's the best armor a lot of us, quite possibly the majority of us will ever see, so it better scale to 60 content and be possible to raid in, at least possible. Is it too easy to get, nope. Consider it an armor quest that takes 20+ hours of tedium, is soloable, and costs in the neighborhood of 2.5 plat to complete. By no means is every 50 plus running around in full cobalt. A lot, yes, but its still not so trivial that its everyone. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does t6 fabled need to eclipse cobalt, sure there should be some gap and coolness factor in favor of t6 fabled over legendary, it sounds like the t6 fab just needs to be put in, or drops need to go up, or people havent found where the good stuff is dropping yet. By no means however should t5 fabled be the measuring stick for armor in the new tier, a lot of posts Ive seen are just people complaining that there is something better than thier t5 Uber Gear semi-commonly abailable in a brand new tier. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its strange, I didnt see a ton of posts from people complaining about the exact same thing when thier t4 Uber Gear became obsolete compared to ebon in thier 40s....<BR></DIV>

[Skr]

The challenge and time invested to get t5 fabled far surpasses the difficulty to obtain cobalt. So how can you say its set properly? Anyone can spend a couple days crafting and get full cobalt, so how is that some big advantage if we dont have to harvest for a couple days? you think that 1 level we gain in that time is going to put us over the line? Look around you, most people that were smart and saved their money before expansion already had enough to buy full cobalt, those that didnt either spent their cash or just dont play enough. Yeah, for some cobalt is the best youll see, but does that mean you should have full cobalt then 2 weeks into expansion? Almost anyone of level to wear it can access it fast and easily now. People with high playtime are always going to have an advantage, but most of us play the game differently then the average gamer and expect more out of it. I play to raid. I think everything in the game is fair if you play casually, but it seems to me the people that like to raid everyday are getting screwed. <div></div>

[Corv]

<span><blockquote><hr>Skrye wrote:Yeah I see what you are saying. Thats even more messed up. Overall mitigation goes down, but % goes up. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Almost makes you wonder if thats even correct or if its some new number glitch. This all relates back to release of eq2 and that feeling of containment then I guess. <hr></blockquote>Welcome to the wonderful world of item-level penalties. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If you do some parsing you'll find this is no display bug.  The effects of those penalties are *not* subtle.  </span>The game has worked like this since release.  The current system is flat-out confusing.  Even one of the more prominent dev's has been caught with his pants down over how  item-level penalties work.  I'd be very happy if they got rid of this silly mechanic and let items be judged by their printed mitigation and stats alone.   I won't hold my breath however.  <div></div>

[Gungo]

<DIV>Here is a novel idea how about they make t5 fabled items just have a minimum equip lvl of 45 give the prismtic a minimum equip lvl of 49 (since thats the lvl you need to acquire it) Thus allowing t5 fabled items scale to lvl 60 mobs and allowing the prismatic to scale to lvl 64 mobs. In this fashion the stats that are on t5 items will hold equal meaning to t6 items vs critters of lvl 60 or less. Alternativly T6 fabled items should have a minimum equip lvl of 55. Upgrades in t6 cobalt will still be required to raid most T6 mobs since they are generally over lvl 60, but the sudden loss of fabled equipment would not be so harsh. And fabled equipment will still be useful for grouping vs most of the T6 content.</DIV>

[Skr]

Its strange, I didnt see a ton of posts from people complaining about the exact same thing when thier t4 Uber Gear became obsolete compared to ebon in thier 40s. Ya no kidding. Thats because I wasnt level 40 for 9 months farming epic mobs and spending every night doing it. Once the raiding starts is when the itemization should be set appropriately. When it comes down to it its all about raiding. No one needs fabled gear for groups. Fabled gear = raid gear. Most of us dont even care about grouping past the first month of release. By getting all the best gear we have given up the grouping aspect of the game pretty much. Maybe if there were aa points or some encouragement to grind more but theres just not. So really, if you dont play to raid and do it almost daily then why should you care if our t5 fabled has the same ac as cobalt? <div></div>

[Vorlak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-x3 and x4 raid mobs should always drop fabled.  Gathering 18-24 people for a raid and netting a wood chest with crap inside makes raiding frustrating and not worthwhile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>Now we need <FONT color=#ff0000>Sony</FONT> to get this thru there head!</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>raiding is dumb, i find harvesting rares more rewarding</DIV>

[Colossaltitan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ironmeow wrote:<BR> <DIV>raiding is dumb, i find harvesting rares more rewarding</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Harvesting is dumb.<BR>I find raiding fun, exciting, and rewarding. <DIV><BR>/dance</DIV>

[thargnar]

<DIV> <P>"So really, if you dont play to raid and do it almost daily then why should you care if our t5 fabled has the same ac as cobalt?"</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't. I don't think it would make sense since ebon was better than t4 fabled and less effort to acquire as well, but I also wouldn't give a rats puckered rear if t5 fabled got bumped up to cobalt mit to keep raiders happy. It doesn't affect myself or the majority of the player base. What I hear some people going on about is that cobalt is better and I dont wanna upgrade all this cool stuff, nerf cobalt so I dont feel like I have to. Or make cobalt harder to get so all the choobs arent running around in armor equivelant to my hard won raiding gear from the previous tier because it decreases my enjoyment of the game if Joe Average can catch up to me until I start raiding t6 content. Iv'e heard a lot more nerf cobalt than increase fabled, so what I care about is that the best armor available to 90% of the player base, if nerfed to at or below t5 fabled, will then not scale to content at 60. I have no problem with the arguement that some t5 fabled required t6 caliber characters to obain, and please bump it up to t6 level. I just have no patience for the Im not special anymore posts.<BR></P></DIV>

[Zhonata]

<DIV>So let me get this right:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----T5-----</DIV> <DIV>Comon</DIV> <DIV>Uncommon</DIV> <DIV>Treasured</DIV> <DIV>Legendary</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Fabled</FONT>           <FONT color=#ff0000>}--I</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Mythical            <FONT color=#ff0000> l</FONT>   </DIV> <DIV>----T6----         <FONT color=#ff0000>   l</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Common          <FONT color=#ff0000> l----------{ <FONT color=#66cc00>You are saying something (T5) Fabled, 5 lvl below (T6) Legendary (and on a diffirent tier completly) should be equal or better</FONT> ]</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Uncommon      <FONT color=#ff3300> l</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Treasured       </FONT><FONT color=#ff0033>  l</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Legendary  </FONT>   <FONT color=#ff3300>}--l</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Fabled</DIV> <DIV>Mythical</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that is a little bit out of whack. Fabled items are an EndGame feature. You didn't waist your time you explored a portion of the game very few get to be envolved in. But this doesnt entitle you to instantly have the 3rd best armor in the T6 bracket (I actually have never even seen a mythical item). Just because there was nothing other than raiding for fabled for a year doesnt mean that it should be better than the armor on the next tier. You worked for your fabled to have the best armor for T5 not T6 no other armor in the game out does the next tiers superior so why shoud it be diffrent for T5-T6. Tho I dont think it should become completly useless between 50-55 it should definatly phase out after that (seeing hwo alot of the armor is 40-45). I dont know about the rest of u, but when i started raiding for fabled  45-50 (BTW i never gota fullset of fabled  but i had several peaces) I was in legendary or better stat drpp armor and worked my way to fabled.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me in sound like u guys are asking for a handout because you spent time exploring indepth into the Endgame of the EQ2 pre LU #13. If u like raiding so much spend the "4" hour mining time  (BTW for most of us its a week or 2 to get our armor) get your cobalt armor go raid again and get your fabled again, but guess what you are  going to be doing it again next expansion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The bottum line is no matter how much you complain about this it isnt going to change.  So get off the forums get lvl to 60 (lol what am i saying im only 54) mine for "4" hours and then go raid to get your same old looking fabled back  (that is when it is when all of the fabled bs is sortedout).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thargnar wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>"So really, if you dont play to raid and do it almost daily then why should you care if our t5 fabled has the same ac as cobalt?"</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't. I don't think it would make sense since ebon was better than t4 fabled and less effort to acquire as well, but I also wouldn't give a rats puckered rear if t5 fabled got bumped up to cobalt mit to keep raiders happy. It doesn't affect myself or the majority of the player base. What I hear some people going on about is that cobalt is better and I dont wanna upgrade all this cool stuff, nerf cobalt so I dont feel like I have to. Or make cobalt harder to get so all the choobs arent running around in armor equivelant to my hard won raiding gear from the previous tier because it decreases my enjoyment of the game if Joe Average can catch up to me until I start raiding t6 content. Iv'e heard a lot more nerf cobalt than increase fabled, so what I care about is that the best armor available to 90% of the player base, if nerfed to at or below t5 fabled, will then not scale to content at 60. I have no problem with the arguement that some t5 fabled required t6 caliber characters to obain, and please bump it up to t6 level.<FONT color=#66ff00> I just have no patience for the "Im not special anymore posts."<BR></FONT></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>This is what you all are suffering from get over it ........ everyone is special in their own way. I also stand beside T5 fabled is made for T5  monsters and perhaps halfway into T6 but by no mean should u be able to raid a 61^^^ epic 4 in T5 fabled and live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>END TRANSMISSION<BR></DIV>

[Skr]

<div></div>So you are saying you should be able to get 7 pieces of cobalt made into armor and be able to live against a t6 epic mob? What do you think is harder and takes more work to acquire? A full set of cobalt or a full set of t5 fabled? I dont give a rats azz about what tier everything is. The level penalty is by far the dumbest thing ive seen implemented into an mmorpg yet. Like I said, cobalt is fine, its the t5 fabled thats not. If you are going to increase stats on cobalt then you need to raise t5 fabled mitigation and do away with this ridiculous level penalty. And to zhonata, you obviously dont raid and have no idea what you are talking about. Raiding has always been progressional and they have tried to do it in this game but they are failing at it. YES you should be able to tank a t6 epic mob in full t5 fabled. Maybe not the hardest one, but thats why theres so many diff epic mobs and so many difficulties of epic mobs. You start small and work your way up. This argument is purely a raid sided argument and unless you play the game for this primary aspect then theres not much sense in debating it since it really doesnt concern the casual gamer and this isnt a nerf cobalt thread. For most of us that raid and play everyday and enjoy this style of gaming, I think a lot of people are going to get sick of this. There just has to be a part of this game that appeals to everyone, and that includes the people that play to raid everyday. We want a game we can play for 5 years like eqlive. At the current state I honestly just cant see myself playing this game half as long, reason being the high end game just completely lacks and theres all these stupid stipulations on everything. I dont know what the designers are thinking when they come up with some of this stuff. A few of my favorite wtfs are 3rd floor of poets palace with the doors that you gotta wait on to open and raid mobs that spam chat. Is it the same guy coming up with these ideas? Theres just a lot of really stupid stuff put in that makes no sense. Scrying stones? distressed merchants? clickable buffs on the ground that ive come across maybe twice? Fact is this game had potential to be great, maybe it still does but im starting to lose hope. Some of the worst ideas ive seen are being put into this game and its taking them 6 months to figure it out and change it back to normal. IE shared xp debt <div></div><p>Message Edited by Skrye on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:45 PM</span>

[thargnar]

<DIV>"So you are saying you should be able to get 7 pieces of cobalt made into armor and be able to live against a t6 epic mob?"</DIV> <DIV>Absofrigginlutely.</DIV> <DIV>Fabled gear should in no way be required to raid the average t6 epic, not t5 fabled, not t6 fabled, that crap *is* harder to get and if you had to raid for a full set at the previous tier just to raid the current tier (required for some quests and actually fun in moderation) this would be prohibitive to the majority of the player base (post LU13) for the enjoyment of a few. I do agree with you however, seeing as it is hard to get and basically required the character to be at t6 level to obtain, that certain pieces of t5 fabled should be on par with t6 legendary. I also heartily agree that level should not affect an items usefulness or mitigation other than the fact that it is now being used against higher level mobs. It looks like we actually disagree on very little, the main exception being that you seem to be saying the only way to get good gear that will last till the new level cap should be to raidfarm for it, and I think that's not why the majority of people play this game so why force that onus on them?</DIV>

[Zhonata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skrye wrote:<BR> <P>So you are saying you should be able to get 7 pieces of cobalt made into armor and be able to live against a t6 epic mob? </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Yes, That is how raiding started at any tier, when the game first game out the first people to raid didnt have Fabled armor. So get over it. Same concept as having full set of ebon / feysteel / steel. As hard as u may find it fabled items were not always a must have for raiding. It took alot of skill and team work to pull it off.</FONT></P> <P>What do you think is harder and takes more work to acquire? A full set of cobalt or a full set of t5 fabled? I dont give a rats azz about what tier everything is. The level penalty is by far the dumbest thing ive seen implemented into an mmorpg yet. Like I said, cobalt is fine, its the t5 fabled thats not. If you are going to increase stats on cobalt then you need to raise t5 fabled mitigation and do away with this ridiculous level penalty. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>This is by far the most ridiculious opinionated statement I have heard (ie. whining cause things are going there way). I have had to give up my fabled armor and jewlery for T6 items because of it T6 is better. The fact of the matter is the game is run on a tier based system. That is how it has been from day 1. You are not supose to take Fabled armor that is mastered a lvl 44 and be able to tank a lvl 61 ^^^ (x4) mob. End of story it isnt going to happen. As I said above raiding <U>CAN</U> be done without the <U>BEST</U> equipment out there. You have to earn it.</FONT><BR><BR>And to zhonata, you obviously dont raid and have no idea what you are talking about. Raiding has always been progressional and they have tried to do it in this game but they are failing at it. <FONT color=#ff3300>YES you should be able to tank a t6 epic mob in full t5 fabled.</FONT> Maybe not the hardest one, but thats why theres so many diff epic mobs and so many difficulties of epic mobs. You start small and work your way up. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>First of all i do raid which is obvious by my statement where "I <U>DO</U> have Fable armor" <U>that I earned in a raids</U>, and consequently have already traded it in for cobalt without whinning. The above highlighted, I agree that fabled should last farther into the T6 category perhaps up to 55, but by no mean should a lvl 44 fabled BP be adiquate to tank an lvl 61^^^ (X4).</FONT><FONT color=#66ff00> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT><BR>This argument is purely a raid sided argument and unless you play the game for this primary aspect then theres not much sense in debating it since it really doesnt concern the casual gamer and this isnt a nerf cobalt thread. For most of us that raid and play everyday and enjoy this style of gaming, I think a lot of people are going to get sick of this. There just has to be a part of this game that appeals to everyone, and that includes the people that play to raid everyday. We want a game we can play for 5 years like eqlive. At the current state I honestly just cant see myself playing this game half as long, reason being the high end game just completely lacks and theres all these stupid stipulations on everything. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Your wrong the argument isnt purly a Raid sided argument. You say that cause that is the only point of view you see it from. I play in all aspecs of the game ( aside from trade skilling that is just plain boring). The fabled armor not be powered up to T6 status is for a reason because it is T5. IT is supsoe to be better than T5 legendary not as good as T6 legendary. I aggree completly that the High End game is lacking. There is no indiviudality ( even with fabled) everythings looks the same. No new armor models, weapons models, designes, and color. You can only raid a mob so many tiems before it becomes a trival persuit at intresting. There are only so many quests..... the list goes on. When you get to that point in the game that is when u sit there for 5 months raiding getting fabled BECAUSE that is all there is to do. I agree it SUCKS that the time spent in getting the fabled is someone what waisted now, but I never expected my fabled armor to always be the best. I knew that T6 would be better as it has always been. So what SOE done that have made you start down with the casual player again. We have to earn all our stuff back., or weapons, armor, and jewlery. This by chance may have somethign to do with them try to to extend the endgame at little farther. Just a thought.</FONT><BR><BR>I dont know what the designers are thinking when they come up with some of this stuff. A few of my favorite wtfs are 3rd floor of poets palace with the doors that you gotta wait on to open and raid mobs that spam chat. Is it the same guy coming up with these ideas? Theres just a lot of really stupid stuff put in that makes no sense. Scrying stones? distressed merchants? clickable buffs on the ground that ive come across maybe twice? <BR><BR>Fact is this game had potential to be great, maybe it still does but im starting to lose hope. Some of the worst ideas ive seen are being put into this game and its taking them 6 months to figure it out and change it back to normal. IE shared xp debt<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Skrye on <SPAN class=date_text>10-20-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:45 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The fact of the matter is you are [Removed for Content] of that you spent all that time for 6 months getting fabled, You got use to have everything better than everyone else. Now that you dont, that you have come down to normality to build yourself back up. You are complaing, whining cause thigns arnt goign your way. The only thing fabled should do is provide for you is: </P> <P>Better stats and mitigation than ebon until u decide to upgrade to T6 items or happen to get into a raid with people that have upgraded and win the drop. End of story. This is hwo the devs see it, this is how the majority of the community sees it, and  this is how i see it. Not to say that people including myself hate the idea of starting at normality again and if that was the argument i would be behind you 100%. </P> <P>So the best thing you guys can do is lvl up get your armor and get your fabled again (that is if you actually like raiding and dont just do it for the rares) cause this isnt going to go anywhere. Have fun, I hope some of you take my advice.  I wont be disscusing this any father.</P>

[blueduckie]

<P>I think some things you do not take into account. Fabled mostly was to trivialize content and make it easier. I dont know of a single guild that could kill t5 contested with out alot of fabled already farmed. You need that fabled.</P> <P>I do think it should be closer in stats to cobalt. I do think cobalt should be a little higher mit and resists but like it is now less in stats and hp ./ power. I think it then offers options.</P> <P>Over all you needed those items to progress on to the next mobs. Tell me a guidl that killed vox with out a nearly full fabled mt. So i do not see it being pointless because it was basically mandatory for the contested mobs.</P> <P>Only real improvments i would like to see is. Keep the game at a same lvl for some time. Like keep it at lvl 60 for 2 years or so and scale items off of expansion to prevent this and make fabled still needed for progression. The new fabled should be harder to get and noticebly better all around. This is how eq was basically and it was nice because you picked up where you were.</P> <P>Another thing would be to scale fabled. Such as a x2 mob should drop fabled near to legendary of that tier - x3 mobs a little higher - x4 mobs noticebly higher. Master chest 80-100% of the time. Make them longer respawn if needing but make them all drop large reward. It makes little sense to kill a raid mob and get vendor loot IMHO.</P> <P>Jusy my 2 cents</P>

[BetaMaster]

<DIV>I understand what Skrye is saying and I was feeling sorta the same... whatever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMHO tho...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Risk should be proportional to reward at all times... maybe an equation like</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Skill*Risk = Reward</DIV> <DIV>Where T6 is a high skill rank, but WAIT gotta watch that risk meter.  OMG something that takes 24 people to accomplish, yah should have some boost to it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...When was the last time you had to make a plan of attack to smack a rock?  i'd say risk = 2 (1person mines rock, 1makes item)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so...</DIV> <DIV>lets make T5 = 50 and T6 = 100(for exagerated fairness and double reward as T5)</DIV> <DIV>50*24 = 1200</DIV> <DIV>60*2   = 120</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok enough blabber, i gotta go</DIV> <DIV>Be safe guys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Abomidable of Mithaniel Marr</DIV> <DIV>Level 60 Ogre Guardian</DIV> <DIV>~~Ardent Legion~~</DIV>

[Skr]

Some of you are still stuck on this tier stuff. Lets forget for a minute that theres an item level penalty and tiers, because obviously its a stupid idea, and if some of you enjoy being consolidated and limited to being goat herded into each tier then thats fine, we can agree to disagree. But yes you should be able to tank a 61 x4 epic mob in t5 fabled. You claim that it maxes out at 44 well, it takes level 50s to acquire the gear. If a raid of 50s is getting gear that maxes out at 44 then thats obviously another problem by soe. Like ive said before where some of you are completely missing the point is that theres no problem being able to tank an epic mob in full cobalt. There always has to be a starting point in gear for each tier regardless, but fabled gear from the previous tier should never be underpar of that of the following tiers rare harvest. Who cares about what tier its from? Fact of the matter is its much harder to acquire and farm, and what do you think should be better? Something thats fabled (fabled is like something you hear about in stories, thus the word fabled indicates a powerful item of fabled power) or some crap dug out of the ground? My argument of the matter really shouldnt concern casual players since they get their cobalt, they can still kill epic mobs with it, and most the game is catered to them anyway. Point of the matter is that for us raiders, its stupid that we arent a little better prepared for a raid then anyone else after all the time and work invested, kinda makes you wonder why you farmed the same epic mob 50 times. Im not saying in any way should we be able to kill the 65x4 epic mobs etc etc, but theres starter mobs in every tier that you can kill with even cobalt. Maybe allow us to take those hits slightly better or something. Give us a purpose for wasting 6 months of our time gearing up our guilds other then fluff factor. I dont know about you guys but I sure dont enjoy farming the same epic mobs 50 times over for a 25% chance at a master chest, just so that it will go straight in the bank in a couple months when the new cobalt comes out. There was already a lack of epic raiding to begin with and very limited as to what you could do until you were prepared to do it. I was expecting them to really revamp raiding and high end content with the expansion as they mentioned several times. All I see is more goat herding. <div></div>

[thargnar]

<DIV>A minor point, and this is not intended as a flame or anything, it's just addressing the question of what was all that raiding for if t5 fabled needs to be replaced in t6. Six months of hardcore raiding yields a little more than just armor. A hardcore raiders entire right side is still kickin pucker well into t6, *everything* they have is at a minimum of adept III and quite a few masters that again last well into t6 and greatly enhance the toon over most with a few adept IIIs and the rest adept Is. Lastly, who has more money than raiders? The occasional crafter, but not many. The guild with the most money on our server is also one of the smallest, and happens to be the arguable premier raiding guild. I havent seen anyone but raiders running around on spirit steeds or living in one of the ungodly expensive houses, no one else can afford it. It seems to me that the armor is only one part of the equation in the rewards of raiding, and the only one that is being seriously impacted by the shift to a new tier. All that plat saved up means an instant upgrade to cobalt and t6 adIIIs/imbued rings sans rock picking if so desired, which is definitely not an option for most non raiders.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, to address the risk vs reward song, what risk? Do clowns come molest your family if you fail a raid? Debt (we are talking about acquiring t5 so at 50, who gave a crap about debt?) and item repair (a pittance compared to the amount of cash in items and rares farmed) were the only negative impacts of raids. A raid is just a different time sink, and one that yielded stacks of rubies and ebons for the guilds doing them on a regular basis, as opposed to the same amount of time spent harvesting which yielded considerably less. So there is no risk vs reward, unless someone isnt telling me something about clowns, there is just time vs reward. Pre DoF, the reward for raid time was far greater than the reward for rock chunking and I dont see that changin too much. Rare rates are higher but still very random, could be 2 an hour, could none for two days, but a well organized guild can raid one instance after another and know *something* and usually a few somethings will drop from each. Ive seen a lot of rares for sale on the market that arent hacked from rocks so I know they are dropping. Ive also seen one of my local raiders wearing 3 sweet pieces of t6 fabled already that make cobalt look like crap, I havent been able to pick one of those out of a rock yet for some strange reason....</DIV>

[Skr]

Yes, those are all nice little perks but if I had to put into a percentage whats important I would have to say its 95% progression and 5% fluff. What I mean by fluff is Money, Spirit steeds, house items etc etc. Lets face it, money just never made a huge impact in this game. Its nice to have but I can get just as far without having tons of it. Spirit steeds? No one spends 60p after grinding their butt off to get guild level 30 just for an 8% increase in run speed. They buy them because they want to have something no one else has, and they want people to know they are riding on 60p. Rubies and ebon? Ya the rubies are nice, but really, unless you play to raid its really not a big requirement to have full adept 3s if all you are doing is leveling and questing in groups. Its nice yes, but this isnt about who has more. Most of us that raid everyday do it because we want to gear up and kill the hardest mobs in the game. We enjoy the rush of taking down epic mobs and we enjoy the team progression. All the armor, rubies etc that we get doing it is more of a requirement then a perk. <div></div>

[Restitution2]

<P>Well here's my 2 copper worth....Cuz some of the garbage coming from obvious non-raiders is pathetic...i don't wanna mention any names but their initials are "Z" ahh  NVM... The true fact of the matter is that cobalt has better stats ( other than mitigation ) than even the t6 fabled.. and t5 fabled should fall right in  line with t6 treasured.. to be totally honest SOE  should take these boards and  trash them , for all they have done is  given an avenue to every whinning, sniffeling cry baby to change the game from it's orginal format and  morf it into the POS we have today... I do not see EQ2 lasting beyond it's normal MMORPG shelf-life of 5 years , and  actually see it crashing into the ground long before we ever have to worry about  seeing the High-Tech options menu ever having to be tweaked  to be used on  better PC's... It is quite a  shame to have to say that, but the facts are the facts....will be sad to see it go... You made a good run at  it SOE... but  your head was too far up the  ol' poop shoot to  see what ya had going, and the potential income... instead ya went with the quick buck, incomplete game,  no implemented loot tables,  bugs,  unbeatable mobs, and the list goes on and on...</P> <P>~the sad 60 assassin, disgruntaled alchemist, </P> <P>p.s. Oh Yeah  thanks for the crappy DPS on assassins too ~thumbs up~ way to go! ~rolls eye~ [Removed for Content] !!! </P>

[DaxxDea]

Another problem that was created is they increased mit on cobalt and didn't raise the mit on t6 fabled making it even less beneficial to spend tons and tons of time farming t6 fabled. GG sony on noobifying this game even more. Anyone and I mean anyone can get cobalt its pathetic, its soo easy.