And no Love yet for the Guardian

[Krooner]

<DIV>Just looked at the new test notes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still no love for the Guards.</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=81#M81" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=81#M81</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raahl]

<P>Yup I noticed that also.</P> <P>On a similar note, Assassins also noticed no love for them.</P> <P>This must be the healer love patch.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Danan]

There was only lots of love for the druids here

[Gungo]

<DIV> <P> there are 3 fixes on test that should help some of the guards tanking problems.</P> <P>1) T6 armour mitigation and stats are getting raised... Hence more mitgation... not just cobalt, but the common harvest is gettign raised too. (yes bad for fabled t5 raid tank good for every other plate class)</P> <P>2) non trauma based auto atk damage is being removed from non-named and non-epics.... hence end to spell dam on regular mobs</P> <P>3) range on protection abilites doubles... hence will actually work (although they still suck)(actually this is live now)</P></DIV>

[Krooner]

<DIV>Gungo Wrote.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there are 3 fixes on test that should help some of the guards tanking problems. <P>1) T6 armour mitigation and stats are getting raised... Hence more mitgation... not just cobalt, but the common harvest is gettign raised too. (yes bad for fabled t5 raid tank good for every other plate class)<STRONG><FONT color=#ff0033>  (I Will believe it when I see it and usually the increase is not enough to matter)</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>2) non trauma based auto atk damage is being removed from non-named and non-epics.... hence end to spell dam on regular mobs <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG><U>( No read again</U>.  It is not being removed it is being reduced. ( Once again knowing SOE's interpitation of reduced or increased its not going to be enough to matter. Besides dumbing down a mob does nothing to fix the specific issues with Guardians.)</STRONG></FONT></P> <P>3) range on protection abilites doubles... hence will actually work (although they still suck)(actually this is live now)</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#cc0066>( A Guardians protection and intercept abilities are still WOEFULLY inadiquate compiared to other fighters.)</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>Thanks for trying to put a bright spot on this but IMO its still a wet blanket.</P> <P> </P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:01 PM</span>

[RafaelSmith]

Cobalt will finally be blue... Now we have to wait and see what SOE's version  of BLUE actually is. <div></div>

[Gungo]

<DIV>I know alot of gaurds are grumpy and angry now, but you claimed nothing was on test helping guards which is wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) I did say it was on TEST. And you act like they wont implement it when you and I both know they rarely every remove a change that hits test from hitting live. The Mitigation increase WILL be coming to live on T6 armour .. In effect increasing your overall mitgation.... hence helping you tank better as many gaurds presume.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2)- "Common NPCs that were doing arcane damage with their auto-attacks should now be doing physical damage. This primarily affects the population of the Living Tombs, the Sinking Sands, and the Silent City, but other creatures throughout the world have been altered where appropriate." </DIV> <DIV> That is a direct qoute from the patch notes.. no reduced is in there at all.. in fact liek i siad all common Non-named. non-epics are having ALL non trauma-auto damage removed. You are wrong. This will be a massive help to gaurds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) i agree they still suck.. but at least you don't have to be humping the targets leg to get your buffs to work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) The #1 guard fix on test is you can now go shirtless.. now you can show off your bod while mining in the hot desert sun =p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S haha raef its going to be bright neon blue and all guards will look like smurfs since cobalt is fairly easy to find. The need a big red cap for Papa smurf though =( seriously though w some of the oversaturation in colors the art department does why do they even care if PC use dye some of the saturation levels on armour are pretty bad as is.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:26 PM</span>

[Krooner]

<DIV>Like I said.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will believe it when I see it.</DIV> <DIV>There have been too many "Guarudian fixes" and fun stuff that never made it from test to live.</DIV> <DIV>Remember Reinforcement.  Was suppose to be a clone of us that could distract the enemy.  Sounded fun to me.  NOPE just another defective taunt now.  I DONT care why it was changed.  The fact is it was changed.  As so many other things were.</DIV> <DIV>So I wont beleive SOE is going to give us something to make things fun again for the guard until its live and survives at least 2 live updates without being nerfed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Frostborne]

Honestly Warbird, if they were going to do it right, it would take alot of time.  However, I have no confidence in them at this point, and doubt that they are really going to out and out tell us they are going to relook at the class balancing and make some pretty hefty changes.    It would be simple to say, just raise plate class mitigation, but it's more than that, they would have to come up with a major purpose for a Guardian outside the lousy half-baked "unsung hero" B.S. they did in LU 13.  The spell line for Guardians doesn't make sense at all.....I mean why would you wear plate, give them taunts, just so that someone ELSE can tank with your buffs?!  [Removed for Content]!  That's like telling Wizards, well if you want to actually perform your DPS roll, you're going to have to do nothing but stack buffs on the Enchanter.  It's the end of an age that's for sure.  Who knows what the next batch of nerfs will bring! <div></div>

[Gungo]

<P>Reinforcement was during beta, and many gaurds actuaslly liek reinforcement as it is now.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>But you are correct its not targeting a guards direct issues alone. although non-trauma damage will help guards immensely. </SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Then again if nothing in the patch notes for test matter and you won't believe it until you actually see it. Why did you complain there was nothing in test in the first place? Since as you said nothing in test matters until it hits live.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 PM</span>

[Frostborne]

<div></div>Thing is, those aren't real fixes for the entire class - just a few insignificant bones to those who happen to be in the T6 range.   They have yet to really put some meat on the test server that addresses class issues.  To me they might as well have put out on the patch notes "made Guardian's Fist of Smokiness, much smokier, and now in mesquite, hickory and BBQ too!!"<span><blockquote><hr>Warbird1 wrote:<div></div> <div>Gungo Wrote.</div> <div> </div> <div>there are 3 fixes on test that should help some of the guards tanking problems. <p>1) T6 armour mitigation and stats are getting raised... Hence more mitgation... not just cobalt, but the common harvest is gettign raised too. (yes bad for fabled t5 raid tank good for every other plate class)<strong><font color="#ff0033">  (I Will believe it when I see it and usually the increase is not enough to matter)</font></strong></p> <p>2) non trauma based auto atk damage is being removed from non-named and non-epics.... hence end to spell dam on regular mobs <font color="#ff0000"><strong><u>( No read again</u>.  It is not being removed it is being reduced. ( Once again knowing SOE's interpitation of reduced or increased its not going to be enough to matter. Besides dumbing down a mob does nothing to fix the specific issues with Guardians.)</strong></font></p> <p>3) range on protection abilites doubles... hence will actually work (although they still suck)(actually this is live now)</p> <p><strong><font color="#cc0066">( A Guardians protection and intercept abilities are still WOEFULLY inadiquate compiared to other fighters.)</font></strong></p> <p>Thanks for trying to put a bright spot on this but IMO its still a wet blanket.</p> </div><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class="date_text">10-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:01 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Frostborne on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:00 PM</span>

[KiseroHT]

<DIV>just another small disappointment.. no big deal.. we've got more important things to accomplish now like running around harvesting nodes so all our armor matches</DIV>

[Krooner]

<DIV>Gungo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Because Im in one of those moods and because I can.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly Would it have helped if I said.  "No love for the Guardians on the horizon." concerning the test notes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would consider "Love" at this point as being.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian changes.</DIV> <DIV>Tower Shields re-improved.</DIV> <DIV>Hold the line no longer roots</DIV> <DIV>Maddening defense now with a reposte proc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SPECIFIC changes for the one Fighter class that cannot self heal, regen, and is at the low end of the DPS pool.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:15 PM</span>

[Shizzirri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KiseroHT wrote:<BR> <DIV>just another small disappointment.. no big deal.. we've got more important things to accomplish now like running around harvesting nodes so all our armor matches</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually with all the bots running around in sinking sands this is almost impossible also.</P> <P>Now seriously...MG says</P> <P></P> <HR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Epic Encounters ***</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- The auto-attack, spell, and combat art damage of all x2, x3, and x4 epic encounters has been reduced.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How does this not apply to guardians?  Aren't you the one's tanking it?  I'm yet to find a website with a bruiser or monk main tanking their raids...This applies to us because we die less.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Techically we're being made more powerful if they are lowering the dps from epic encounters (even though this should of been done a long time ago).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ironmeow]

nah they are working on guardians, im guessing they are saving it up and seeing how those other class changes go first. Im guesssing we are gonna get a complete rehash instead of being spoon fed.

[Krooner]

<DIV>Shizz.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ummmmm No.  Many raiding guilds I know of have turned from Guardians to Zerks, Pallys and SK's to tank the bigger mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only time a Guard really gets the call to MT is if the mob has a big heat damage because of our Fortified stance.</DIV> <DIV>So you could look at this as just another excuse NOT to need a guard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm look at that.. the epic isnt hitting for as much now... but we need to take it down faster... OK since all tanks TANK about the same now lets look at our DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You already know the anwser to that one.</DIV> <DIV>And do even bother posting if someone is going to tout our GREAT defensive buffs for the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>Why the hek do all warriors tank the same it just doesnt make sense!!!! ahhhhhh</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if a monk wanted to tank as good as a guardian, he woulda chosen guardian, he knew what he was getting into when he made his character! This is just so frusterating sorry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyways raising the armor stats is a good start, though it shoulda already been raised to begin with, plate should have an unfair advantage against cloth im sorry but it should. A monk can avoid 80% for all i care but when he gets hit that hit better be 80% of the damage.</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P> there are 3 fixes on test that should help some of the guards tanking problems.</P> <P>1) T6 armour mitigation and stats are getting raised... Hence more mitgation... not just cobalt, but the common harvest is gettign raised too. (yes bad for fabled t5 raid tank good for every other plate class)</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Does nothing for pre-50 players.</FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>2) non trauma based auto atk damage is being removed from non-named and non-epics.... hence end to spell dam on regular mobs</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Mobs still cast their spells.  Really how many mobs does this, and is it mostly in DoF?</FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>3) range on protection abilites doubles... hence will actually work (although they still suck)(actually this is live now)</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Are these the protection abilities that guardians Laugh at?</FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Troupez]

<blockquote><hr>Frostborne wrote: Honestly Warbird, if they were going to do it right, it would take alot of time. However, I have no confidence in them at this point, and doubt that they are really going to out and out tell us they are going to relook at the class balancing and make some pretty hefty changes. It would be simple to say, just raise plate class mitigation, but it's more than that, they would have to come up with a major purpose for a Guardian outside the lousy half-baked "unsung hero" B.S. they did in LU 13. The spell line for Guardians doesn't make sense at all.....I mean why would you wear plate, give them taunts, just so that someone ELSE can tank with your buffs?! [Removed for Content]! That's like telling Wizards, well if you want to actually perform your DPS roll, you're going to have to do nothing but stack buffs on the Enchanter. It's the end of an age that's for sure. Who knows what the next batch of nerfs will bring! <div></div> <hr></blockquote> I love the comparison at the end of your post. Good point.

[LadyDor]

<P>Thanks Raahl...once again you read my mind and posted for me.:smileyhappy:</P> <P>Nice to see that someone notices that not ALL Guardians are 50+ and have the best of the best gear available.</P> <P>In truth though I'm still hopefull that one day I WILL see some Guardian loving on the Update Message...and that it will help Guardians that aren't on the High end of the game level and gear wise.</P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P> there are 3 fixes on test that should help some of the guards tanking problems.</P> <P>1) T6 armour mitigation and stats are getting raised... Hence more mitgation... not just cobalt, but the common harvest is gettign raised too. (yes bad for fabled t5 raid tank good for every other plate class)</P> <P>2) non trauma based auto atk damage is being removed from non-named and non-epics.... hence end to spell dam on regular mobs</P> <P>3) range on protection abilites doubles... hence will actually work (although they still suck)(actually this is live now)</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>1) uhh... more mit? oh you mean we are gettng more mit.. hrmm seems like mit has been raised accross the board... so now barawlers get same upgrade.. and yet avoidance is the same</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) now that rocks... I didnt read that on the update notes... cause that was a stupid idea imo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) who cares.. they suck... dont help us tank.. and dont keep anyone alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Krooner]

<P>Just looked at the test updates for today.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=203#M203" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=203#M203</A></P> <P> </P> <P>Lower level guards get a slight bump.</P> <P>Nothing to write home about though.</P> <P> </P>

[Troupez]

Lol Guardians got one improvement that was specific for their class: A Lvl 22 offensive stance! I see multiple improvements for the other classes but oh well, I'm not giving up yet.

[Thanous]

I'd just like to point out, that for those of us who are not Tier 5 or 6...but mid to low level, I do not see how these changes help me at all. <div></div>

[Raijinn]

No need to really stir the pot, it's something that's being looked into.

[Krooner]

<P>Sorry Raijinn.</P> <P>We are mearly applying the priciple that "The squeeky wheel gets the greese"</P> <P>If we dont squeek it seems no one notices.</P> <P> </P>

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Warbird1 wrote:<BR> <P>Sorry Raijinn.</P> <P>We are mearly applying the priciple that "The squeeky wheel gets the greese"</P> <P>If we dont squeek it seems no one notices.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Not only that but the CU wasn't supposed to be released until ready. Obviously it wasn't ready since there are a lot of imbalances yet it was released anyway. This more then anything is what annoys me.</DIV>

[Pry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Warbird1 wrote:<BR> <P>Sorry Raijinn.</P> <P>We are mearly applying the priciple that "The squeeky wheel gets the greese"</P> <P>If we dont squeek it seems no one notices.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Not only that but the CU wasn't supposed to be released until ready. Obviously it wasn't ready since there are a lot of imbalances yet it was released anyway. This more then anything is what annoys me.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face=Verdana>Me too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT>

[Allowin]

<P>just another cookie tossed to the hungry lion.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>when you guys finaly undertand were getting the old "dont call us, we'll call you" line and face that fact that</P> <P>A) were nerfed. go harvest or TS </P> <P>B) its already been stated that the revamp is here to stay. love it or leave it</P> <P>C) anything they do to give 1 thing to a guard they will give to every other plate class tank which means we do get something, but so does everybody else. if all fighter classes take 1 step foward, guardians are still 3 steps behind.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>sure they raised the mit and stats on plate armor, they screwed over the looks of T5 and T6 armor, but like i said. we ARE getting the old run around. tell them its coming. but dont hold your breath. </P> <P> </P> <P>Raijinn, i understand your just doing your job. and im not trying to cause you any more headaches. you just tell us what MG and the rest tell you to say. nothing wrong with that. but if MG promised you a raise for months on end, but all you ever got was his secretary telling you "its coming, hes talked about it. so just be patient"</P> <P>how long would you stay around waiting on the raise? would you just sit there and keep your mouth shut and just pray he didnt forget you? </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Allowin wrote: <p>just another cookie tossed to the hungry lion.</p> <p>when you guys finaly undertand were getting the old "dont call us, we'll call you" line and face that fact that</p> <p>A) were nerfed. go harvest or TS </p> <p>B) its already been stated that the revamp is here to stay. love it or leave it</p> <p>C) anything they do to give 1 thing to a guard they will give to every other plate class tank which means we do get something, but so does everybody else. if all fighter classes take 1 step foward, guardians are still 3 steps behind.</p> <p>sure they raised the mit and stats on plate armor, they screwed over the looks of T5 and T6 armor, but like i said. we ARE getting the old run around. tell them its coming. but dont hold your breath. </p> <p>Raijinn, i understand your just doing your job. and im not trying to cause you any more headaches. you just tell us what MG and the rest tell you to say. nothing wrong with that. but if MG promised you a raise for months on end, but all you ever got was his secretary telling you "its coming, hes talked about it. so just be patient"</p> <p>how long would you stay around waiting on the raise? would you just sit there and keep your mouth shut and just pray he didnt forget you? </p> <hr></blockquote> Yesterdays patch just about removed what little faith I had left that things were being worked on.  As far as I can tell not one of the many Guardian issues/concerns posted since LU13 were remotely addressed.  The cookie cutter upgrade T6 crafted armor is pretty sad to say the lease and doesnt really fix anything since it applies to all plate classes. </span><span>Raijinn has a crappy job and is doing the best he can.  He is not to blame.  Its whoever is actually making the decision that needs to be taken out and spanked.  The guy that re-tinted Ebon and Cobalt needs to be beaten multiple times. =P</span> <span> Armor looks worse now than ever before...Ebon/Cobalt is a dull black...no detail nothing...just a black blur.  Come on how hard can it be to get this part right?</span><div></div>

[Frostborne]

Sadly, Raijin has nothing to do with making the design decisions, he doesn't decide what's going in the next patch, what's going to be bugged, what's going to be retooled.  His only purpose is to make sure the threads stay the course, and people don't get to nasty to each other. The only way we would get results is if there was a developer fielding Guardian questions and concerns directly, and gave honest answers as to what's going on.  I don't see that happening.  I've seen other companies do live feedback, and I've even seen developers like Designer Dragon way back in the day of Orgin, hop on the forums and talk about what's going on and have a discussion with a forum moderator clipping out the numskull flamers.  I think if they did something like that, it would make alot of people happy, as opposed to being left to their own devices.  Because if that is the case, other games are on the horizon and it's much easier to switch games to something that at least shows some promise to it's customer base, and a team of developers that will at least talk with the players about their intentions.  None of the ambigious political jargoning that you might hear from some Senator on Capiltol Hill when asked about budget reform. <span><blockquote><hr>RafaelSmith wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Allowin wrote: <p>just another cookie tossed to the hungry lion.</p> <p>when you guys finaly undertand were getting the old "dont call us, we'll call you" line and face that fact that</p> <p>A) were nerfed. go harvest or TS </p> <p>B) its already been stated that the revamp is here to stay. love it or leave it</p> <p>C) anything they do to give 1 thing to a guard they will give to every other plate class tank which means we do get something, but so does everybody else. if all fighter classes take 1 step foward, guardians are still 3 steps behind.</p> <p>sure they raised the mit and stats on plate armor, they screwed over the looks of T5 and T6 armor, but like i said. we ARE getting the old run around. tell them its coming. but dont hold your breath. </p> <p>Raijinn, i understand your just doing your job. and im not trying to cause you any more headaches. you just tell us what MG and the rest tell you to say. nothing wrong with that. but if MG promised you a raise for months on end, but all you ever got was his secretary telling you "its coming, hes talked about it. so just be patient"</p> <p>how long would you stay around waiting on the raise? would you just sit there and keep your mouth shut and just pray he didnt forget you? </p> <hr></blockquote> Yesterdays patch just about removed what little faith I had left that things were being worked on.  As far as I can tell not one of the many Guardian issues/concerns posted since LU13 were remotely addressed.  The cookie cutter upgrade T6 crafted armor is pretty sad to say the lease and doesnt really fix anything since it applies to all plate classes. </span><span>Raijinn has a crappy job and is doing the best he can.  He is not to blame.  Its whoever is actually making the decision that needs to be taken out and spanked.  The guy that re-tinted Ebon and Cobalt needs to be beaten multiple times. =P</span> <span> Armor looks worse now than ever before...Ebon/Cobalt is a dull black...no detail nothing...just a black blur.  Come on how hard can it be to get this part right?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Moralpanic]

No doubt the increased T6 armor stats helps, but it still doesn't resolve: 1) pre-50 guardians 2) guardians DPS 3) guardian utilities 4) tanking in non-T6 crafted gear <div></div>