agro question

[bring]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I have a question for all you guardians out there. I have a friend that is a mid 40's guardian that seems to be having issues getting the agro like he use to pre LU13. I am one of those warlocks that just cant help nuking early and hard ;P (i know... bad warlock... hehe). I'm wondering what spells or lines you guys are using to get quick agro and keep it.?</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I know he use to use the buff line to help with agro on groups... that was also nice because it drew agro from adds as well. What adjustments have you all found that wors well for this?</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P></DIV>

[TunaBoo]

dont try and tell your tanks how to play, chances are they know what they are doing better then you.. stick to worrying about your nukes. <div></div>

[Thor]

<P>Ah, I know the situation becuase I use to duo a lot with a warlock.</P> <P>What you must do is hold on your nukes until you friend got a chance to generate enough aggro. Let him pull, taunt, root and get some hits before you unload anything on the mob. <BR>Since LU13 went live it looks like dps generates a lot more aggro than before and our taunts less + they sometimes get resisted. </P> <P>If you are unsure when your friend has some sort of controll, ask him to make a macro where he tells you when you can engage.</P>

[Moontayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bringen wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I have a question for all you guardians out there. I have a friend that is a mid 40's guardian that seems to be having issues getting the agro like he use to pre LU13. I am one of those warlocks that just cant help nuking early and hard ;P (i know... bad warlock... hehe). I'm wondering what spells or lines you guys are using to get quick agro and keep it.?</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I know he use to use the buff line to help with agro on groups... that was also nice because it drew agro from adds as well. What adjustments have you all found that wors well for this?</FONT></SPAN></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, this is gonna sound harsh but if you know you're being bad when you nuke early... <STRONG>then why in God's name are you doing it?</STRONG> It's not rocket science, sheesh. If your Guardian friend isn't gaining aggro early in the fight, and it happens when you nuke early, the solution isn't to tell him what he needs to be doing, it's to <STRONG>stop nuking early.</STRONG> Simple. Elegant. And mind-numbingly easy.<BR>

[Tro]

<P>The problem I see mostly is when I pull, and as I am leading it back to the group, just befroe it gets to camp, it breaks off from me and heads for the healer or the nuker.. This tells me that individual did something to [Removed for Content] it off before I could get some aggor built up.. or the mob turns to the other group member like 5 seconds after it arrives in camp. Either way, I was not given enough time to do some aggro building. </P> <P>Since LU13, ALL group members MUST do their part in helping the tank maintain aggro.. and yes this means you may have to change your play style a bit.. basically dont do crap to the mob until you give the tank time to build aggro. And even then dont chain nuke till it is dead. Depending on the tank, you may have to evenly spread out your nuking.. </P> <P>I have a hot key setup that says bacsically to please give me 5 seconds to build some aggro.  Some folks still are on the pre LU13 thinking and when they see that hot key they sometimes get [Removed for Content] becasue they feel I am telling them how to play their class or im telling them what to do.. or they say "maintaing aggro is YOUR job so if you cant do it then figure it out and fast". Yes that actually happened.. I see it from time to time. They just dont realize that now folks have to play smarter.. </P> <P>Also, some folks may not realizse we are rooted when fighting which can make it even more difficult to get aggro back.. I have another hot key setup for each time I cast MD. I try to communicate to the group what I am doing as much as possible. Some folks however feel I am trying to "Control" them.. oh well..</P> <P>/shrug..</P>

[Greyto]

<P>NM</P> <p>Message Edited by Greytoon on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:24 AM</span>

[Raahl]

<P>Yes nuking early will get a mob on you quick.  Good rule of thumb is let the mobs beat on the guardian for 5 seconds.  </P> <P>Also make sure your friend is using his HTL series of CA's (Goading Defense/Maddening Defense) and every taunt he has.  </P>

[RafaelSmith]

I guess im the only one that does things differently.. I let the group do what they want as early as they want and then take over from there. As I see if I use my taunts all at the start of the fight...then someone grabs aggro I have less tools available to me to regain it... In my group when I pull...90% of the time the mob head for a healer or a mage...i just walk back with it until we are at the desired fight spot then take over...usually by that time its been debuffed, dotted a few times and nuked once or twice...its not that hard to establish aggro if you have all your taunts available, etc. That works for me in groups but i doubt it would on raids..since 1 shot can kill me im sure 1 hot can kill a mage. One thing and one thing only that I do not have problems with post LU#13 is aggro control/management. <div></div>

[Tro]

<DIV>Well that is amazing .. really.. The mob is dotted, nuked and debuffed before you even start taunting.. and you still get aggro? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What level are your taunts? All mine are Adept III. Even when I pull and deafen when mob arrives in camp, then MD, then spam taunts, I still lose aggro and absolutely (9 times out of 10) cannot get it back. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very frustrating.. I will try your strat and see what happens.. it just seems to me if group members have accumulated all that aggro, it would be that much more difficult to get it back AND maintain it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will see.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trook wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What level are your taunts? All mine are Adept III. Even when I pull and deafen when mob arrives in camp, then MD, then spam taunts, I still lose aggro and absolutely (9 times out of 10) cannot get it back. </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Whoa, Something's very wrong with your group if you are losing aggro that much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's what I do typically</DIV> <OL> <LI>Pull with an arrow.</LI> <LI>While back pedaling to the group, cast my group taunt and single taunt.</LI> <LI>Use MD when I get to the group.</LI> <LI>Use AoE Attack/taunt.</LI> <LI>Spam all taunt CA's when they come up.</LI></OL> <P>I might lose aggro 3 out of 10 times at most.   </P> <P>Are your members spamming their AoE damage CA's?  Most of my loss of aggro is because of this.</P><p>Message Edited by Raahl on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:25 PM</span>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:<div>Well that is amazing .. really.. The mob is dotted, nuked and debuffed before you even start taunting.. and you still get aggro? </div> <div> </div> <div>What level are your taunts? All mine are Adept III. Even when I pull and deafen when mob arrives in camp, then MD, then spam taunts, I still lose aggro and absolutely (9 times out of 10) cannot get it back. </div> <div> </div> <div>Very frustrating.. I will try your strat and see what happens.. it just seems to me if group members have accumulated all that aggro, it would be that much more difficult to get it back AND maintain it.</div> <div> </div> <div>I will see.. </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Let me clarify...My group doesnt hold back..they start debuffing(in fact on named mobs Im gonna start having the Defiler in the group actually pull/engage  the mob with debuffs and I peel the aggro off him), dotting, doing dmg as soon as mob is in range regardless of what ive had a chance to do to the mob.  Most of the time that means the mob goes for one of them initially...but once cycle of my taunts and aggro is mine pretty much the restof the fight...Occasionally ill lose aggro for a moment but its not hard to get back assuming my taunts are not greyed out.  I try to hold Reenforcement and Rescue in reserve for adds, etc. I guess what Im saying is that I DO NOT spam taunts...I only use them when I think I need..i.e establishing aggro at the start or when I happen to lose it during the fight.   99% of the time...even on yellow/orange named I rarely have to use taunts during the fight beyond what I have to do at the start to establish aggro. Sometimes if I notice the mob goes crazy doing dmg and my healer(s) have to start spammin then ill start using taunts cause that spam healing really pisses them off. FYI I have AD3 Deafen, Master 2 MD, AD3 Reenforcment.  Rest of my taunts are AD1. It could very well be the nature of my group...we dont have a the big nasty DPSer like Wizard/Warlock.</span><div></div>

[bring]

<P>thank guys for you input. i think that thing where the mob goes for someone else in the group when you pull is a buff thing. if you run out of range of the buffs then run back into range they pop back up. i believe that they are acting much like the 10 sec duration group buffs you guys use to have pre lu13. i have a 28 guard that i havent used since the update but i used them often to ensure agro. i have had the mob come after me many times before i even moved much less cast anything. that is the only cause i could think of for their action.</P> <P>i am a few levels above him and i know i put out a lot of dps for him to try and over come. generally the mobs arent up long enough to cause much damage to either of us. it actually works better for exp if i nuke hard and fast.... more mobs, faster. its just he kinda feels bad about being a "guardian" and not being able to guard. was more or less looking for some tips i might pass on that might help him feel he is filling his role.</P> <P>the damage generating more agro then the taunts seems to have meret... i also have a monk friend around the same level and he seems to be able to gain agro and keep it a bit more often. </P> <P>let me ask another specific question... does doing your HO first seem to help you guys with agro. to me it just looks like the HO just does the initial damage (which i know will provide some agro in and of its self) but does it seem to generate extra agro beyond that?</P> <DIV>thanks again for your info guys <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>