Best Group I've Had Since LU13

[Bhuhdiy]

<DIV>Guard (me)</DIV> <DIV>Pally</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Fury</DIV> <DIV>Defiler</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pally was the tank, I used offensive stance and had all my bufs on him.  Used Sentry/Commanding Presence to smooth out the tougher pulls.  DPS was a bit low, but we did pretty well on 57-58 mobs, 58 ^^^ Heroic names included.  The pally could tank like a mofo with Guard and Troubador buffs on him.  And not a hint of a problem with agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So fellow guards, how ya liking our new "role"?</DIV>

[Pry]

My Paladin in World of Warcraft absolutely adores the changes in LU13! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> However, my Guardian in EQ2 thinks they stink and she hates the retirement home!

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhuhdiy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Guard (me)</DIV> <DIV>Pally</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Fury</DIV> <DIV>Defiler</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pally was the tank, <FONT color=#ffff00>I used offensive stance and had all my bufs on him</FONT>.  Used Sentry/Commanding Presence to smooth out the tougher pulls.  DPS was a bit low, but we did pretty well on 57-58 mobs, 58 ^^^ Heroic names included.  The pally could tank like a mofo with Guard and Troubador buffs on him.  And not a hint of a problem with agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>So fellow guards, how ya liking our new "role"?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You mean the role you wanted to assign EVERY other fighter in the game???  To be your buff bot, sorry hard to feel sorry for you all.</P> <P>Blackoath</P>

[Bhuhdiy]

<P>Um, okay</P> <P>Who said anything about other fighers being buff-bots?</P>

[SeattleSeven]

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________ Margen wrote:     You mean the role you wanted to assign EVERY other fighter in the game???  To be your buff bot, sorry hard to feel sorry for you all. <p>    Blackoath </p> <p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________ </p> <p> </p> <p>Blackoath, you poor man.  Either you A) know the OP and KNOW that he always wished every other tank was a buff bot or B) You are generalizing this statement to ALL guardians, claiming we wished we were the only tanks. </p> <p>Either way, I bet you are completely mistaken. </p> <p>Most of us were pinning all our hopes on LU13 and the expansion to save EQ2, to eqaulize the tanking discrepancies (et al), but instead it only further divided the player base and brought out more off-character comments like above.  Players are leaving this game at a very alarming rate, lets not help speed them off with such flippant remarks. </p> <div></div>

[Margen]

<P>Look at 90pct of the post on this board, its all Guardians must be MT, the only MT, other fighters medicore dps or buff up Guardians.  The vast majority of guardian posters on this board demand they have dominace in tanking.  For example, look at the thread Guardians should be the best tank.  So other fighters have every reason to have this view point.  When you demand to dominate our core function, doesn't help garner any support for any true problems you might have vs your normal ego strocking demands.</P> <P>So suggest you all get a grip and quit demanding dominace at the expense of 5 other classes.  Course you won't cause you think we are only here to support you.</P> <P>If the paladin (Which I am not, I am a SK) had been buffing/offensive stance would you have felt sorry for him cause you where such a better tank, I seriously doubt it.  You would have been piously say that is the way things should be, cause thats what is continously posted here.</P> <P>Thats why you don't get much sympothy from other fighters, I didn't see Guardians sticking up for SK when we where hurting, fact is most of you snickered and said .... Nah you are fine.</P> <P>We are now getting closer to some form of balance between fighters, but you don't want that you want to own tanking ... Numerous post here state that stright out.  So don't expect me to support you when you want to step on my neck.</P> <P>Blackoath</P> <p>Message Edited by Margen on <span class=date_text>09-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 PM</span>

[Balmore]

You folks agree with me? We are the new Troubadors! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Poochymama]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <P>Look at 90pct of the post on this board, its all Guardians must be MT, the only MT, other fighters medicore dps or buff up Guardians.  The vast majority of guardian posters on this board demand they have dominace in tanking.  For example, look at the thread Guardians should be the best tank.  So other fighters have every reason to have this view point.  When you demand to dominate our core function, doesn't help garner any support for any true problems you might have vs your normal ego strocking demands.</P> <P>So suggest you all get a grip and quit demanding dominace at the expense of 5 other classes.  Course you won't cause you think we are only here to support you.</P> <P>If the paladin (Which I am not, I am a SK) had been buffing/offensive stance would you have felt sorry for him cause you where such a better tank, I seriously doubt it.  You would have been piously say that is the way things should be, cause thats what is continously posted here.</P> <P>Thats why you don't get much sympothy from other fighters, I didn't see Guardians sticking up for SK when we where hurting, fact is most of you snickered and said .... Nah you are fine.</P> <P>We are now getting closer to some form of balance between fighters, but you don't want that you want to own tanking ... Numerous post here state that stright out.  So don't expect me to support you when you want to step on my neck.</P> <P>Blackoath</P> <P>Message Edited by Margen on <SPAN class=date_text>09-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:42 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Totally agree, while the OP might actually have good intentions and want to be equal in terms of tanking to the other fighters alot of the guardians on this page clearly want to have an advantage over the others therfore making them their buff bots. Another thread in this forum pretty much proves this point. I believe its called "Guardians Should Be the Best Tanks",</DIV>

[Corv]

<div></div><div></div> __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________ Margen wrote:     You mean the role you wanted to assign EVERY other fighter in the game???  To be your buff bot, sorry hard to feel sorry for you all. <p>    Blackoath </p> <p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________ </p> <p> The way balance works, somebody has to wind up being the "best" tank in a given situation.  They might not be the "best" in every situation, but some class is going to come out ahead in more situations than others.  Given the offense-defense hierarchy moorgard posted as the basis for the revamp, the tank that was meant to have an edge, albeit not a large one, was Guardians.   If other tanks have an edge in all situations over Guardians, then something has gone wrong and needs to be fixed.  I don't expect Guardians to be the best tank in all situations, but we *should* be the best in at least *some*.  If you can't accept that then you are guilty of precisely what you are accusing the original poster of.  </p> <p>That being said, I don't see a problem currently.  There's nothing preventing a guardian from placing his avoidance and damage intercept buffs on another guardian instead of a crusader or brawler.  It would certainly be nice if guardian buffs stacked with each other though.  </p><p>Message Edited by Corvan on <span class=date_text>09-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:24 AM</span>

[Ichabo]

<span><blockquote><hr>Poochymama p wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr></blockquote>Totally agree, while the OP might actually have good intentions and want to be equal in terms of tanking to the other fighters alot of the guardians on this page clearly want to have an advantage over the others therfore making them their buff bots. Another thread in this forum pretty much proves this point. I believe its called "Guardians Should Be the Best Tanks",</div><hr></blockquote>Well we should be the best tanks IF we do not get some additional abilities to make this game more playable for us. Brawlers beeing able to solo ^^^ heroics, Pallis healing themselfs and others etc etc where the guardian has NOTHING that gives him an edge in anything at all. I have absolutly nothing agains other fighter classes tanking any mob in the game. Even if I find it totaly illlogical that a light armor bruiser can have more mitigration than a walking tincan like me and that there is no diversity in the class exept that all are better than guardians now. But if they can be as good in tanking as a guardian, shouldn't be a guadrian be equal to them in other points as well? We are talking about stuns&stiffles, heals, monsterous mitigration selfbuffs etc. All the goodies that the other fighterclasses where presentet with while we got nothing but a swing with the nerfbat. So let the freaking Monk/Bruiser tank the mobs if it makes him happy, but hell, then give me the ability to solo eqoal con ^^^ heroics as well damit!</span><div></div>

[Balmore]

<div></div><p>Okay. Guardians should be.. useless?Yesterday, I was harvesting in RV.A level 41 Heroic ^^^ -- I'm 51 -- aggroed on me! -- so I was like... "Bah, shut it... you got no chance!" I was buffed and ready in seconds.So... I attack it! -- it goes toe-to-toe with me. I had to run, to die with its DoTs.So I was like... "Mmm... I gotta try different setups" ...I go back, buff and try different stance and debuff with hex doll (mitigation one). I go toe-to-toe with it and I had to run, again.After dying like three times, I was like "Is that what they call balance when some XXXXX soloed lv. 50 ^^^?" -- that was like the final bullet in my Guardian's head.Getting ganked by a 10-levels lower heroics. I'm honestly [Removed for Content] off and looking for balance and/or improvement.I'm not asking to get any other classes gimped. I'm not asking to make me able to solo heroics. I'm asking for balance as long as we're at it.Moorgard and devs reading this, I ask you (and I hope you answer) to look into this. We can't have fun with a class that used to be good and now the worst.Brawlers and Crusaders -- we understand that you lived that before and do reliaze how bad it was. So please, help us get out of this!The class is not fun any more. There are few if any reasons to play it.Please, understand!Some people saying ... we wanna be the best tanks or Guardians should be the best etc ... are acting this way because they're angry too.We picked Guards to be pure tanks -- we sacrificed lots of effective and cool things to be that. Pure tanks.Now, we found ourselves being in the average tank boat with no effective combat arts that other tanks have access to.For the playtime, for the time spent on leveling these, for the investment, for the love, for anything you may care to... We want to be good tanks! We want the Guardian class to be fun, again. We want to find a reason to tell the folks to play Guardian class.</p><p>Thank you for reading this!</p>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhuhdiy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Guard (me)</DIV> <DIV>Pally</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Fury</DIV> <DIV>Defiler</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pally was the tank, I used offensive stance and had all my bufs on him.  Used Sentry/Commanding Presence to smooth out the tougher pulls.  DPS was a bit low, but we did pretty well on 57-58 mobs, 58 ^^^ Heroic names included.  The pally could tank like a mofo with Guard and Troubador buffs on him.  And not a hint of a problem with agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So fellow guards, how ya liking our new "role"?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>sorry u are the pally lap dog but when I group with a pally he is a back healer/dps... and otherwise I will find another group...

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhuhdiy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Guard (me)</DIV> <DIV>Pally</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Fury</DIV> <DIV>Defiler</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pally was the tank, <FONT color=#ffff00>I used offensive stance and had all my bufs on him</FONT>.  Used Sentry/Commanding Presence to smooth out the tougher pulls.  DPS was a bit low, but we did pretty well on 57-58 mobs, 58 ^^^ Heroic names included.  The pally could tank like a mofo with Guard and Troubador buffs on him.  And not a hint of a problem with agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>So fellow guards, how ya liking our new "role"?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You mean the role you wanted to assign EVERY other fighter in the game???  To be your buff bot, sorry hard to feel sorry for you all.</P> <P>Blackoath</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah cept u rolled abuff bot we rolled a pure tank...

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <P>Look at 90pct of the post on this board, its all Guardians must be MT, the only MT, other fighters medicore dps or buff up Guardians.  The vast majority of guardian posters on this board demand they have dominace in tanking.  For example, look at the thread Guardians should be the best tank.  So other fighters have every reason to have this view point.  When you demand to dominate our core function, doesn't help garner any support for any true problems you might have vs your normal ego strocking demands.</P> <P>So suggest you all get a grip and quit demanding dominace at the expense of 5 other classes.  Course you won't cause you think we are only here to support you.</P> <P>If the paladin (Which I am not, I am a SK) had been buffing/offensive stance would you have felt sorry for him cause you where such a better tank, I seriously doubt it.  You would have been piously say that is the way things should be, cause thats what is continously posted here.</P> <P>Thats why you don't get much sympothy from other fighters, I didn't see Guardians sticking up for SK when we where hurting, fact is most of you snickered and said .... Nah you are fine.</P> <P>We are now getting closer to some form of balance between fighters, but you don't want that you want to own tanking ... Numerous post here state that stright out.  So don't expect me to support you when you want to step on my neck.</P> <P>Blackoath</P> <P>Message Edited by Margen on <SPAN class=date_text>09-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:42 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>again u rolled a class and u knew the class u rolled... anyhow guards main draw was the were the best tank.. so to say oh wll tough luck fatty is dumb. casue we only tnak that is all we do no evac no wards no heals no fd no invis no dps we were tanks and that is what we rolled... and we rolledi t casue we wanted to tnak... not casue we wanted a no utility borign class with no dps that can tnak like sks</P> <P> </P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Corvan wrote:<BR> __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________<BR><BR><BR>Margen wrote:<BR><BR>    You mean the role you wanted to assign EVERY other fighter in the game???  To be your buff bot, sorry hard to feel sorry for you all. <P>    Blackoath<BR></P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________<BR></P> <P><BR>The way balance works, somebody has to wind up being the "best" tank in a given situation.  They might not be the "best" in every situation, but some class is going to come out ahead in more situations than others.  Given the offense-defense hierarchy moorgard posted as the basis for the revamp, the tank that was meant to have an edge, albeit not a large one, was Guardians.   If other tanks have an edge in all situations over Guardians, then something has gone wrong and needs to be fixed.  I don't expect Guardians to be the best tank in all situations, but we *should* be the best in at least *some*.  If you can't accept that then you are guilty of precisely what you are accusing the original poster of.  <BR></P> <P>That being said, I don't see a problem currently.  There's nothing preventing a guardian from placing his avoidance and damage intercept buffs on another guardian instead of a crusader or brawler.  It would certainly be nice if guardian buffs stacked with each other though.  <BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Corvan on <SPAN class=date_text>09-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:24 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>nah we should be best tank always... maybe pally or sk but bruisers and monks never shoudl be better ever

[TunaBoo]

Yah low dps cuz we suck, replce the guard with a wizard and the group gets 50% better. We are useless. <div></div>