Guardians Role ( No more complain lets clear this out )

[Axor]

<DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First of all im a long time online gamer, Played games like La Prision in spain, Eq, Ffxi, Eq2 of course load of others non so famous, i had a ciber cafe during a good time in my life, so i played 12 - 16h a day to those games during a good period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now i dont play that much but i know something about those games.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I been in Raging fury on Antonius Bayle of EQ1 a high end raiding guild, and currently im on a good guild in eq2, we raided almost all content till DoF.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that said, i NEVER had a trouble like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont use to complain, i understand the games from a big zoom optic and understand most of balancing even if it regards a nerf to my class. I played many clases and never played some. I got nerfed on the famous Monks nerf of september 2002 ( if i remind well ) and understood it. I didnt liked but that nerf was logical.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that some balancing changes may affect how your class develops his role, but NEVER will understand that after 1 year of game, SoE Changes Totally our role.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just want 2 things, and i think all Guardians have to right to know them :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First, I want to know if those changes are definitive, if our role of MT been changed to Group Support. Im asking that just to stop losing my time with a Role that i dont want. When i choosed Guardian i did so bcse my guild lost the MT, that was when we were low lvl and the game was young, but since we have experience on online gaming, wasnt hard to know wich class would be the obviusly MT. So in this way, i Choosed a MT not a Guardian, The class itself doesnt matter to me, The role it does is what i care.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, if those changes are definitive, Will Guardians that choice to change his class get any class of reimbursement ?</DIV> <DIV>I'm Asking that since i seen Moorgard saying The Flavour of Guardians is Protecting his group from Damage, And that is a support class and not a MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that you wanted to make all fighters able to tank, Some will tank better a magic hiting mob ( bruisers ) some will tank better a Melee mob ( plate tanks ). Even this isnt happening right now i understand is temporally and you will get your system working as intendeed soon or later. BUT if this means that the system contemplates guardian as a Support class i want to know it right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As i said, i made this Guardian to be MT, if im not going to be able to MT, then im out of it and will chose another class with a specify Fuction and i hope you dont change it again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not Talking about a DPS being nerfed and doing less DPS, i'm talking about Changing the role of a class. An exagerated example would be a ranger that becames healer, or more close examples, a pally that becames MT or a Warden that is converted to DPS class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of those examples would be the Dream of those clases, but they choosed a character not a Role. if i Chosed to be a support healer and chosed for this matter Warden and you make me DPS the post would be the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm just asking to be able to play what i chosed for. Guardian = MT or i will reroll.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no complain on this post, i assume you decided the best for the game, thats why you are developers and im just a customer, but i want to be aware of such things in a  future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for reading and srry for my english ... is not my native language.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Axor lvl 54 Guardian on Crushbone Server</DIV> <DIV>MT ( if moorgard doesnt say something different ) Of Templarios Elite.</DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>Hundreds of us been asking the same thing since release...and as of yet still no answer.  From the looks of it, SOE has decided this is the best role for us guardians, and I for one am very soon going to be deleting my account.</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P> <P> </P>

[Greyto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Axor wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no complain on this post, i assume you decided the best for the game, thats why you are developers and im just a customer, but i want to be aware of such things in a  future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>something about that line just made me lose my lunch</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Axor you summed it up pretty well for a lot of us we all would like some answer to the question "did I just waste 10 months building this class"</DIV>

[Bhuhdiy]

<DIV>Moorguard made it pretty clear what he considers our new role to be in  <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=18989#M18989" target=_blank>this</A> post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>His argument is basically that we add defense and "protection" to the group like no other <U>fighter</U>.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's true, but the real problem is this:  We are a fighter class, not a buff or healing class.  Our job is to tank.  It makes no sense to have a Guardian in the group to buff defense and provide protection such as intercepting damage.  The healing, buffing, and crowd control classes do that MUCH better.  We can't hold a candle to them at protecting or buffing a group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So where is the REAL utility?</DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>I read thrue all the other classes forums and most of them are so happy with the changes made, except Pallies and Guards...Least with the pallies they still have great function with their buffs and their heals, and equal dps to us...I get more miserable and miserable everyday I read these forums, and watch my Guilds Guardians complain and eventually leave the game...</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P>

[Axor]

<P>Most of the posts in our forums are talking about what is our new utility, to be honest, i dont care.</P> <P>As someone said i didnt spend 10 months building up a MT to end being a Support Class, all i want is to know if this is what they did and if they are not going to go back on his own steps.</P> <P>Axor .. old MT.</P>

[lostsandman]

<P>This is my feeling too, </P> <P>I rolled a guardian to be MT (which was true for 10 months+) so i don't want to waste my time leveling to 60 and find out that i am Support class now.</P> <P>So please tell me what if i am MT or Support. If MT i will lvl else i will reroll.</P> <P>I will really be greatful if this question can be answered soon so that i don't waste my time.</P> <P>Many thanks </P>

[annyliu1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Axor wrote:</P> <DIV>So in this way, i Choosed a MT not a Guardian, The class itself doesnt matter to me, The role it does is what i care.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Axor lvl 54 Guardian on Crushbone Server</DIV> <DIV>MT ( if moorgard doesnt say something different ) Of Templarios Elite.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Can't agree any more, many of us pick this class casue we want to be MT. If guardian won't be the MT in most of the case. I won't pick this class.</P> <P><BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by annyliu123 on <span class=date_text>09-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 AM</span>

[Morphi]

I totally agree with this post.lets try to keep this thread up for the devs to give us the answer to our question. As the original poster I chose the guardian class for the very same reason to be THE tank. The description clearly stated that this class (guardian) is what i need. I dont need DPS i dont care about winning duels, about utility or anything like that - I chose what was fun for me and it was exacly what i wanted for 10 months. Now that those changees been made and I do not recieve fun ingame anymore because my character was changed (actually 2 of my characters were changed cause my second char is a warden which i cant play now too! since he's not a healer anymore) I'd like to know if those changes are final and weather changing the role of the class an intention or a mistake and regardless i'd like to know should i waste my time on those 2 chars that i have or should I start over???PLEASE answer.

[skyeandang]

<DIV>I was gone from the game for a month, and man, was I suprised when I died to Nektulos Pirates on the beach that were previously greyed out. I'll really need to relook at the skills, and reset the hotbars...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like to solo, A LOT. I hope I can figure out how the get meaningfull xp soloing as a guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone know if the Desert of Flames expansion game guide will have new explainations of the combat changes? Might be worth picking up, even before I get the expansion?</DIV>

[MrMartin]

<P>I would trade all of my protectionspells for some more taunts, HP and mitigation without thinking twice.<BR>Protections are only useful if you are off-tank and I dont want to be that.<BR>Although I have to admit I slap a protection on the healer everynow and then if we are in place where its<BR>easy to get adds. Ruins of Varsoon for example.</P> <P>The Guardian lvl 50 spell that takes all the groups damage... would be fun to see that in action when a mob<BR>does an AOE attack. 6 groupmembers, 600 dmg on each, thats 3600 dmg on me. Fully groupbuffed at lvl 37<BR>Im just below 4000 HP. Im toast. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Timzil]

<P>I too choose to play the best defensive tank as was the obvious role of the Gaurdian. I knowingly sacrificed the DPS, utility and flexible play style that other fighters had in favor of that single ended role. In doing so I accepted the pain of a low dps slow grind to 50, I accepted our one hit wonder style and I plugged away. Now all of a sudden I find that the defining Guardian skill that I had to sacrifice gameplay for in order to get is just given out willy nilly to the other fighter classes, and they don't have to give up anything in return for it.  They get promoted to dual roles of Berserker/Guardian, Brawler/Guardian, Monk/Guardian, SK/Guardian and Paladin/Guardian while we are left being merely Guardians. Their gameplay options expanded while ours remains single ended and sub-par by comparison. It's not so much that we got nerfed, and frankly I don't feel any change in my playstyle other than seeing my healer work a bit harder. It's that we paid a price and continue to pay a price for a role that can be acheived without sacrifice by any other fighter class. Moorgard is way out in left field if he thinks we should be satisfied playing the role of what should be a couple of basic cleric or finger wiggler buffs. Offer a class change to the players of this obsolete class and see how many are satisfied with it.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>* </FONT><FONT color=#0099ff>* * * *</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Timzilla on <span class=date_text>09-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:21 AM</span>

[Halade]

<DIV>I agree 100%.  Like many others I played a guardian because I wanted to physically tank better by mitigating a beating more efficiently than other plate tanks.  Now that we don't have that comparative advantage to other plate tanks... our niche is trivial.  I have yet to see an instance where my protective skills were totally necessary, whether raiding or in another group setting.  It's nice that weI can take damage for a mage or healer if we get an add... but it's only a few seconds before I get aggro from add_mob_001 and the probablity of another class getting one-shotted by any non-raid mob is just pretty slim.  </DIV>

[Axor]

<DIV>can we get an answer ? the question simplificated is :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are guardians designed to be Raid MT since LU13?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.d: i would love a fast answer so i dont lose more time and ingame money. thanks</DIV>

[Axhine]

I would love for them to answer to this question as well. I know I played this class just like everyone else to be the MT of a raiding guild I don't care about dps I dont care about buffing the group...I stand there hold aggro and get hit its what I do ah well did best .  But do you think we will get a reply I doubt it and if they do will we get a straight answer?

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Axor wrote:<BR> <DIV>can we get an answer ? the question simplificated is :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are guardians designed to be Raid MT since LU13?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.d: i would love a fast answer so i dont lose more time and ingame money. thanks</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Moorgard has answered that many times. The answer is yes, but so are all the other fighters. You will no longer just autimatically be picked for MT. </P> <P>Instead you will have to compete for that role with the other fighters. Who wins the spot will be based more on gear instead of class.</P>

[Krooner]

<DIV>poochymama p wrote"</DIV> <DIV> <P>Instead you will have to compete for that role with the other fighters. Who wins the spot will be based more on gear instead of class.</P> <P>Aboslutly wrong.</P> <P>The MT will be chosen by who can stay on their feet and hold agro the longest for the chosen mob.</P> <P>At the moment in any situation that sure isnt the guardian any more or ever until we are fixed.</P> <P> </P></DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>Add me to this thread of it being the sole reason I started a guardian, was to be Raid caliber MT.  Doesnt look like that is our role anymore, and I too am wondering if they will fix it before I cancel my account, or if this is their intentions.</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P>

[Vandame]

<div></div><p><span class="postbody">As much as I enjoy the fixed guardian line of skills they seem to be intended only to protect nuke happy wizards and scouts in single group incursions where they temporarily take agro. One of them even has a hate reduce element which would not be a wise thing to use on the MT.<span>  </span>Beyond the guardian line of protection spells, the buffs a guardian bring to the group pale in comparison to Wardens and Templar. </span></p><p><span class="postbody"> </span></p><p><span class="postbody">It has been said and repeated many times that all plate class fighters have the potential of tanking a mob equally well.<span>  </span>So the distinguishing factor that will define a MT will first and for most the tanks ability to hold agro after comparing tanks gear.<span>  </span>But even here the guardian find themselves coming in second place as for the longest time all the other fighters have had an easier time of pulling and holding agro simply by their higher dps with taunts being a sweet bonus.<span>  </span>At level 51 with both my pure taunts being Adept 3’s I have calculated my taunt ability is about 150 to 180 dps, but can drastically fall depending on how much I am stunned during an encounter.<span>  </span>Even then the other warriors find it easy to pull agro away from us with out using their taunts.<span>  </span>Prior to LU13 they did not simply because we had a better job of mitigating damage then them.<span>  </span>But now why not when they can mitigate damage just as well as we do.<span>  </span>In fact why don’t they tank to begin as their better ability to hold agro means that the rest of the group can increase their dps to match.<span>  </span></span></p><p><span class="postbody"> </span></p><p><span class="postbody">Guardians hands down do a great job of buffing and protecting fellow group members in single group experiences even though they do require the group to lower the dps to compensate for the reduced ability to taunt mobs.<span>  </span>I have learned to offset this by casting my protection spells on the wizard while the warden increases the wizard’s agi.<span>  </span>Then the wizard tanks the mob and is able to go nuke happy.<span>  </span>The wizard with 80 % agi misses a great deal of the mobs crushing blows.<span>  </span>Gets a second attempt to avoid using my avoidance and then if the mob still hits the wizard they get a 50% chance have me intercept the damage for them.<span>  </span>We have found this greatly reduces the healing requirements on the warden and wow can that wizard nuke.<span>  </span>Doesn’t work as well on scouts as lots of their skills require access to the back and side of the mob.<span>  </span>But for wizards they just need not to be interrupted, stunned or stifled where they cast from maters not.</span><span class="postbody">Outside of the role Guardians gave as being able to absorb huge amounts of damage they brought nothing more to the table. Now there is no noticeable difference between all the warriors and given no other utility it come to question a Guardians role in future raids if at all included, beyond the personality of the character. </span><span class="postbody">I too rolled a Guardian with the very clear direction of being the MT in raids. For a while we enjoyed fulfilling the class description, but for the moment it seems our time in the sun has come and gone. But even worse then that it seems that a guardians need to be in a raid has also been removed as beyond being the MT, Guardians have nothing else that cannot be done better by another class. </span><span class="postbody">As for raids if I was forming a raid today I would be very hesitant to even put a guardian in the raid if anyone else was available. Even in the scenario of putting a monk as the MT and using the Guardian's Vigilance to give the monk another chance to avoid being hit vs. the increase dps of another mage or scout, or even an extra healer. *would be suicidal to use any of the other protection spells.</span><span class="postbody">So if you have read to this point I hope you walk away with the idea that guardians are not a useless class, just currently useless in raids and it’s my hope that sooner then a year from now soe will fix this. But I am not holding my breath and even though I plan on continue leveling my guardian to 60 I have rolled an alt.</span></p><div></div>

[TunaBoo]

SOE wake up and smell the coffee. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>SOE wake up and smell the coffee.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>They did, that's the point.<BR>

[Krooner]

<P>Gaige</P> <P>Im asking you kindly would you please go back to your OWN forum.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks</P> <P> </P>

[DaxxDea]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Warbird1 wrote:<BR> <P>Gaige</P> <P>Im asking you kindly would you please go back to your OWN forum.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>every forum is his forum. How could he be a troll if he didn't post on every single forum? the fact is he couldn't. He's just soo happy his buddy moorguard nerfed us he has to keep coming back to our forums to make sure we still suck. If we didn't complain about how we suck I am sure he would go inform moorguard we are in need of a nerfing.</P> <P>He says were all balanced with Brawlers now yet many Guardians all went and rerolled Brawlers or are playing their Brawler alt(Like I am). Does anyone know a single Brawler who has rerolled a Guardian since revamp? ya, I didn't think so.</P> <P>You can talk all the trash you want about how it was purely just balancing and were now both equal. That surely doesn't explain why I tank better on my alt and have more fun. If were soo equally balanced now I sure as hell wouldn't want to resort to playing my alt all day when there is all that new content I could be exploring on my Guardian main.</P> <DIV>But moorguard says were balanced and we all know if he says were balanced then we obviously are...he is god isn't he? People love to quote moorguard all day like he is special and his opinion means more or that its only opinion that matters. I don't value his opinion on Guardians any more then someone who just bought the game and has a lvl 10 main char. Just because moorguard agrees with you does not mean he is right nor does it make you right, you just like to think it does because it makes you feel special. The fact is we have thousands and thousands of people who have much better knowledge of the game then moorguard does yet their opinion is less valuable? all people think about is omg moorguard replied to the thread he must have something important to say? he never does its just another reply to the thread same as any other person who replies don't fool yourself into thinking because he works for sony he is soo important. He is merely a public face for sony, get over puting him on a pedestal</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DaxxDeath wrote:<BR> <P>every forum is his forum.  <FONT color=#ffff00>True.  That is also true of any EQ2 player who utilizes the forums; as long as they follow the forum rules that is.</FONT></P> <P>How could he be a troll if he didn't post on every single forum? the fact is he couldn't. He's just soo happy his buddy moorguard nerfed us he has to keep coming back to our forums to make sure we still suck. If we didn't complain about how we suck I am sure he would go inform moorguard we are in need of a nerfing.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Oh please.  That isn't true and you know it.  Your guardian is so [Removed for Content] that you got him to 60 before anyone else.  That must've been tough with all the reports of guardians unable to tank for xp groups and stuff, right?  Especially since you were tanking x4 mobs with two groups after the revamp.  I mean yeah, guardians just flat out suck right Bashm?</FONT></P> <P>He says were all balanced with Brawlers now yet many Guardians all went and rerolled Brawlers or are playing their Brawler alt(Like I am). Does anyone know a single Brawler who has rerolled a Guardian since revamp? ya, I didn't think so.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I said some tweaking needs to be done.  If your brawler alt is so vastly superior Bashm, why did you lvl your guardian to 60 first instead of your bruiser?  What about the previous 10 months when there wasn't miniscule balance problems like now but when guardians were like 10x better at tanking than any other fighter.  What about when you and others were telling me and other fighter classes to reroll guardians if we wanted to tank.  Hypocritical much?</FONT></P> <P>You can talk all the trash you want about how it was purely just balancing and were now both equal. That surely doesn't explain why I tank better on my alt and have more fun. If were soo equally balanced now I sure as hell wouldn't want to resort to playing my alt all day when there is all that new content I could be exploring on my Guardian main.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Again, if this was even remotely true why did you get 60 on your guardian first, instead of your brusier.  If your bruiser is the better tank who is more fun to play, then I assume you'd do what is best for you and your guild and get the best tank (bruiser) to 60.  But you didn't.  Because you and I both know the best tanks in the game are still guardians.  Just the gap is smaller, as it should've been since release.</FONT></P> <DIV>But moorguard says were balanced and we all know if he says were balanced then we obviously are...he is god isn't he? People love to quote moorguard all day like he is special and his opinion means more or that its only opinion that matters. I don't value his opinion on Guardians any more then someone who just bought the game and has a lvl 10 main char. Just because moorguard agrees with you does not mean he is right nor does it make you right, you just like to think it does because it makes you feel special.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I value his opinion more than a handful of angry, emotional unopenminded guardians.  /shrug</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact is we have thousands and thousands of people who have much better knowledge of the game then moorguard does yet their opinion is less valuable? all people think about is omg moorguard replied to the thread he must have something important to say? he never does its just another reply to the thread same as any other person who replies don't fool yourself into thinking because he works for sony he is soo important. He is merely a public face for sony, get over puting him on a pedestal.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Well lets see.  He is a dev who gets paid to work on this game and design it.  You are comparing that to a bunch of players.  Well, all I can say is opinons vary.</FONT> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>09-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:46 PM</span>

[Craft01]

<DIV>Guardians are still main tank, they just have 5 other classes can fill that role as well.  Grouping with monks, a bruiser, paladins and a few guardians I have to say guardians still tank better than the other classes generally.  Guardians hold aggro better thank a monk or bruiser hands down and are about equal with a paladin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So are guardians main tanks? Yes, they're just not the only main tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry if you chose guardian because you wanted to be the only choice of tank.  I'm sorry if you think you should be able to give up everything else to tank better than everyone else.  The game isn't supposed to have one and only one tanking class and it never was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no tank class.  There are tanks with various other abilities that make them different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, if you can't main tank there is a problem.  The problem might be with how you play, something that needs tweaked in the coding or maybe the mob hasn't been tuned correctly.  This goes for all fighters not just guardians.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry you lost the role of being the only tank worth playing, but you should never have had it to begin with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Landiin]

<div></div>I'm with the OP, I picked a roll not really the class. The class dissription described the roll so I picked a guardian. I for one plan on bug reporting my class ever day. You all should do the same. Can we please get an answer? If we are fixed in your eyes, then say so, because this isn't the class I want if it is. Thats all we want, Most of us will reroll. We won't be like some monk and go post on every forum saying things are broke, We just want to KNOW!!!<p>Message Edited by Landiin on <span class=date_text>09-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:56 AM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landiin wrote:<BR> I'm with the OP, I picked a roll not really the class. The class dissription described the roll so I picked a guardian.  <FONT color=#ffff00>There is no best main tank.  As I've stated the class description you are referencing is mostly lore / flavor.</FONT><BR><BR>I for one plan on bug reporting my class ever day. You all should do the same.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Sounds fun!</FONT><BR><BR>Can we please get an answer? If we are fixed in your eyes, then say so, because this isn't the class I want if it is. Thats all we want, Most of us will reroll. We won't be like some monk and go post on every forum saying things are broke, We just want to KNOW!!!  <FONT color=#ffff00>Don't you hate that stupid monk and all his... hey, wait a second~ </FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Landiin]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Landiin wrote: <div></div>I'm with the OP, I picked a roll not really the class. The class dissription described the roll so I picked a guardian.  <font color="#ffff00">There is no best main tank.  As I've stated the class description you are referencing is mostly lore / flavor.</font>I for one plan on bug reporting my class ever day. You all should do the same.  <font color="#ffff00">Sounds fun!</font>Can we please get an answer? If we are fixed in your eyes, then say so, because this isn't the class I want if it is. Thats all we want, Most of us will reroll. We won't be like some monk and go post on every forum saying things are broke, We just want to KNOW!!!  <font color="#ffff00">Don't you hate that stupid monk and all his... hey, wait a second~ </font> <hr> </blockquote>Nope I don't hate you Gaige, your just like my kids and I love them. <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Landiin wrote: <P><SPAN>Nope I don't hate you Gaige, your just like my kids and I love them.</SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well... thanks.<BR>

[Landiin]

You are welcome

[DaxxDea]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DaxxDeath wrote:<BR> <P>every forum is his forum.  <FONT color=#ffff00>True.  That is also true of any EQ2 player who utilizes the forums; as long as they follow the forum rules that is.</FONT></P> <P>How could he be a troll if he didn't post on every single forum? the fact is he couldn't. He's just soo happy his buddy moorguard nerfed us he has to keep coming back to our forums to make sure we still suck. If we didn't complain about how we suck I am sure he would go inform moorguard we are in need of a nerfing.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Oh please.  That isn't true and you know it.  Your guardian is so [Removed for Content] that you got him to 60 before anyone else.  That must've been tough with all the reports of guardians unable to tank for xp groups and stuff, right?  Especially since you were tanking x4 mobs with two groups after the revamp.  I mean yeah, guardians just flat out suck right Bashm?</FONT></P> <P>He says were all balanced with Brawlers now yet many Guardians all went and rerolled Brawlers or are playing their Brawler alt(Like I am). Does anyone know a single Brawler who has rerolled a Guardian since revamp? ya, I didn't think so.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I said some tweaking needs to be done.  If your brawler alt is so vastly superior Bashm, why did you lvl your guardian to 60 first instead of your bruiser?  What about the previous 10 months when there wasn't miniscule balance problems like now but when guardians were like 10x better at tanking than any other fighter.  What about when you and others were telling me and other fighter classes to reroll guardians if we wanted to tank.  Hypocritical much?</FONT></P> <P>You can talk all the trash you want about how it was purely just balancing and were now both equal. That surely doesn't explain why I tank better on my alt and have more fun. If were soo equally balanced now I sure as hell wouldn't want to resort to playing my alt all day when there is all that new content I could be exploring on my Guardian main.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Again, if this was even remotely true why did you get 60 on your guardian first, instead of your brusier.  If your bruiser is the better tank who is more fun to play, then I assume you'd do what is best for you and your guild and get the best tank (bruiser) to 60.  But you didn't.  Because you and I both know the best tanks in the game are still guardians.  Just the gap is smaller, as it should've been since release.</FONT></P> <DIV>But moorguard says were balanced and we all know if he says were balanced then we obviously are...he is god isn't he? People love to quote moorguard all day like he is special and his opinion means more or that its only opinion that matters. I don't value his opinion on Guardians any more then someone who just bought the game and has a lvl 10 main char. Just because moorguard agrees with you does not mean he is right nor does it make you right, you just like to think it does because it makes you feel special.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I value his opinion more than a handful of angry, emotional unopenminded guardians.  /shrug</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact is we have thousands and thousands of people who have much better knowledge of the game then moorguard does yet their opinion is less valuable? all people think about is omg moorguard replied to the thread he must have something important to say? he never does its just another reply to the thread same as any other person who replies don't fool yourself into thinking because he works for sony he is soo important. He is merely a public face for sony, get over puting him on a pedestal.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Well lets see.  He is a dev who gets paid to work on this game and design it.  You are comparing that to a bunch of players.  Well, all I can say is opinons vary.</FONT> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Message Edited by Gaige on <SPAN class=date_text>09-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:46 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Why did I hit 60 on my guardian before bruiser? its simple Set an example for the guild. If the guild leader is off on an alt it sets a horrible example for the guild. As for how I managed to hit 60 second of anyone on any server its simple. I mooched off better classes such as a necromancer who can duo for 15% an hour or trio with me and get 10% an hour. Youll notice I was second to hit 60 to that same necromancer because he gained over 1 lvl on me in one day because he stopped grouping with me and I had to gain 5% an hour while he got 15% an hour. I will also note he had school and a job to play around where I did not I just played 22hours a day plenty more then him to still be outlvled by him. Mooching off other classes and playing alot has always been the key to exping a bad class tho.</P> <P>I would have to say the most depressing tell I ever recieved was from a tempalr in our guild I was grouped with he thought I was full of crap about my tanking ability not being good anymore. After I left the group and the group stayed exact same just not me he sent me a tell a couple hours later "wow, I thought you were full of crap. Those mobs that I had to chain heal you on I basically afked with monk tanking after you left" This is refering to a monk who was a full lvl below me and has inferior armor to me. The templars name was Orison if you wanna ask him yourself his wife was the monk who he barely had to heal on mobs he had to chain heal me on her name is Zeva ask her aswell if you like.</P> <P>As for us still being the best tank just smaller gap now? you an I both know what overpowered us before revamp was our defense buffs that used to be ever 5defense would make you tank like you were a full lvl higher. What does defense do now? .2% avoidance per defense wow thats godly!!!! I can turn off my defense buffs now and not even notice. Then there is anchor which has 6times longer recast then duration so 84% of time it is not on...not something I would consider making us a better tank then anyone. All our class defining buffs are watered down garbage now the fact is buffs USED to make us the best choice for tank. Now they play no role in whether we are main tank or not the only role is mitigation on armor which we have same a cleric. They could easily fix this by making our recast same as duration like strapping spirit for bruisers is.</P> <DIV>Oh and since I know you were completely against guardians having "god mode" I am positive you must be against the new god mode Monks have even if its only for 15secs any form of god mode is bad. I think something more fitting for monks would be absorbs 3hits and damages their breastplate to be more inline with guardians absorb 3hits and break their shield. Same with bruisers it should damage something of theirs also.</DIV>

[LadyDor]

Gaige..in all honesty, how would you feel if you woke up tomorrow and logged on and found that your class had been reduced by a Combat UPGrade that GAVE every other class a bump up in some way? I chose Guardian to be a TANK and thought I would usually be THE tank because that was what the class I chose was set-up and reported to be (never mind that in BETA it WAS that way and it stayed that way for almost a year). I'm not saying I want to be the only Warrior in a group....I'm not saying I HAVE to always be the Main Tank..I'm just saying I want my class to be beneficial in ways that appeal to groups so as to ask me to join them. What is the point of having a class that has a line or lines of spells/abilities that are SOLEY for the benefit of a group if no group really wants that class? I'm glad you like your Monk, I'm glad you enjoy posting on all the Guardian Forums so as to "rub some salt in the wounds" or just to Post *shrug*. I'm also a person who is saying I want my Guardian made better WITHOUT Nerfing the other Warriors to do it....so can ya please tone down the smugness and the sarcasm and the snotty remarks to the Guardians posting here? We are here to "vent" and possibly discuss options we wish to see SOE take a look at in order to make our class more viable to play than it currently is...just let us do that please.

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LadyDor wrote:<BR>Gaige..in all honesty, how would you feel if you woke up tomorrow and logged on and found that your class had been reduced by a Combat UPGrade that GAVE every other class a bump up in some way? I chose Guardian to be a TANK and thought I would usually be THE tank because that was what the class I chose was set-up and reported to be (never mind that in BETA it WAS that way and it stayed that way for almost a year). I'm not saying I want to be the only Warrior in a group....I'm not saying I HAVE to always be the Main Tank..I'm just saying I want my class to be beneficial in ways that appeal to groups so as to ask me to join them. What is the point of having a class that has a line or lines of spells/abilities that are SOLEY for the benefit of a group if no group really wants that class? I'm glad you like your Monk, I'm glad you enjoy posting on all the Guardian Forums so as to "rub some salt in the wounds" or just to Post *shrug*. I'm also a person who is saying I want my Guardian made better WITHOUT Nerfing the other Warriors to do it....so can ya please tone down the smugness and the sarcasm and the snotty remarks to the Guardians posting here? We are here to "vent" and possibly discuss options we wish to see SOE take a look at in order to make our class more viable to play than it currently is...just let us do that please. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LadyDor, I really appreciate you position and everyone's position on why they picked guardian, but I have to tell you that I picked my first character and he was not at all what I thought he would be.  When I chose a monk, I thought they would be pullers like in EQ live.  I wanted to be up front and in the action (old EQ1 mage here) but that wasn't how it turned out.   However, I quickly found out that he was supposed to be something else.   Reading all of the descriptions are rather elusive anyway, and I feel after its all said and done, past the archetype its really hard to understand just what the true calling of the class is.</P> <P>Hey, I saw guards tanking, so I next started a ogre guard, as with the advice of so many posts in this forum, "ya don't like it, roll a guard and [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]!" heh.  Welp, I played the guard after I played the monk, and the difference was like night and day.  You wouldn't believe the difference, and I have no reason to make this up.  Leveling the guard was easy, and he seemed almost invincible.  I duoed with a templar most of the way to 50 and we were a hell of a team.  It just seemed overpowered to me, sorry I don't want to rile anyone up but thats how I see it.</P> <P>I just want to say in closing that some bumpage in mitigation, or shield bonus to a skill, or some change to utility is reasonable to me.  The utility to GUARD people who never get hit or the ability to take everyone's damage and die like a sacraficial calf is absolutely useless and no fun.  I just think we should do so in a positive manner and stop with the rants.  We are not gods anymore. </P> <P> </P>

[Krooner]

<P>Skarl. Nope.</P> <P>Were not the toons we once were.</P> <P>Now Monks and Bruisers are gods and it will most likely stay that way till the next expansion when they get nerfed and someone else gets over powered... and so on and so on.</P> <P> </P>

[Vulking]

<P>Gaige one question for you.</P> <P>Where is NOAH? I've seen no posts from him in quite awhile.</P> <P> You may have answered this before, and I just don't remember him leaving and saying goodbye.</P>

[MainFra]

Just leave this game and go do anything, guys.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <P>Gaige one question for you.</P> <P>Where is NOAH? I've seen no posts from him in quite awhile.</P> <P> You may have answered this before, and I just don't remember him leaving and saying goodbye.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Getting 60 WS.  Prior to that he was getting 60 Guardian.  I talk to him about the forums a lot, he reads them all the time.  I guess he just doesn't feel like posting.</P> <P>/shrug<BR></P>

[Vulking]

I'm curious as to his opinion on all this.

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Craft01 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Guardians are still main tank, they just have 5 other classes can fill that role as well.  Grouping with monks, a bruiser, paladins and a few guardians I have to say guardians still tank better than the other classes generally.  Guardians hold aggro better thank a monk or bruiser hands down and are about equal with a paladin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So are guardians main tanks? Yes, they're just not the only main tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry if you chose guardian because you wanted to be the only choice of tank.  I'm sorry if you think you should be able to give up everything else to tank better than everyone else.  The game isn't supposed to have one and only one tanking class and it never was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no tank class.  There are tanks with various other abilities that make them different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, if you can't main tank there is a problem.  The problem might be with how you play, something that needs tweaked in the coding or maybe the mob hasn't been tuned correctly.  This goes for all fighters not just guardians.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry you lost the role of being the only tank worth playing, but you should never have had it to begin with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Five stars