I'm not seeing it

[SwissArmySh]

<DIV>I logged on yesterday with my 34 Gaurdian for the first time since the revamp.  I just had to see how gimped I was after reading through an endless amount of posts saying that guardians can no longer tank, solo, DPS and have been sevearly nerfed accross the board.  There is even a thread on Mages tanking better! (possibly a bug though)  Needless to say I was very dissheartened about it all.  I also read that our Mitigation was now worse and our avoidance has dropped to a point of us being the second choice as a MT over the rest of the fighters.  Guardians have even been dieing to Blue no arrow solo mobs!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I logged on and (after sorting through all my hotkeys, CA's and traits ect) the first thing I checked was my new mitigation and avoidance.  Buffed with all but Entrench and Battle cry( Or whatever the 30 sec Mit buff is) in Def stance, my Mit was 43% and avoidance somewhere in the 30's.  With my 30 sec Mit buff my Mit increased to 47% and when i slapped Entrench on it jumped to 59%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, 43% until canceled, 47% for 30 secs and 59% for 30 secs but rooted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, I thought, doesn't sound too bad, in fact it's better that pre patch(appart from avoidance)......  So I headed to Zek to have my behind handed to me from a Blue no arrow....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Straight outside the Outpost gates was rich with test targets...  Sprint at the ready I pulled a Blue ^ expecting it to be a hard fight seeing how Guards simply cannot solo.  Well needless to say, my health never left green.....  I tried again, but this time I pulled 2 Blue ^ Orcs.  I was left with my health in the yellow and a 3rd of my power left.  Wow, I thought to myself and what a relief.  I treid this over and over with very similar results each time for a little while, looked up and had gained 20% exp in the time it took me to finnish my cup of tea!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I need to do much more testing I know, but what I did has expelled soooooo many false claims, It has made me view these boards differently.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something to note.  I switched to my offensive stance and didn't really need to use either of my 30 sec Mit buff during these tests  but when I did go Defensive and mit buffed to the eyeballs I could tank these guys effortlessly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, my gear is treasured mid 20's stuff, with some crafted.  I have no Fabled gear at all and some pieces desperately need upgrading.  My CA's are all App2, app3 and adept1.  I have yet to buy a single adept3 or Master1.  I have spent my master 2 upgrades on taunts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have any screenies to prove anything, and i know people always insist on showing the proof but I just thought I would share my experiences with you all and hopefully quel other peoples fears of the sky falling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All I can say is that for now I am happy with the changes, and cannot understand how Gaurds in Fabled gear are having such a hard time soloing and claiming that we are now useless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Flame if you wish but my Heat resist is now 50,000! :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS.  By god we need some utillity upgrade! :smileysurprised:  </DIV>

[Chog]

What?  A Guardian enjoying the class?  IMPOSTER!!!!!!  :smileyvery-happy:

[SwissArmySh]

<P>Aye, Lol :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>The Gaurdian boards are looking really bad at the moment.  Theres a lot of peeps unhappy about where we currently stand.  But when I log in, It doesn't feel that way to me.  Only time will tell if I get in a situation where a Monk or Bruiser MT's better than me AND dishes out better DPS AND buffs the group better.  Since it was stated by the devs that fighters tanking abilities are ballanced by their damage output and utillity but the gaps in tanking will be much smaller.  That is what I am seeing, and believe it is where it should be.  We still do have the edge in tanking (Taunts, better Mit, better buffed Hp's) but do seem to be lacking a little in the 'cool other stuff department':smileytongue:</P> <P>I do think though, that Guardians should have the least DPS/Utillity than the other fighters as long as we remain just <U>slightly</U> ahead on Tanking.  I also have a Monk and love to tank with him, but I still feel it is the place of the Guardian in the group to MT while I offtank, buff and protect the group from adds (given that lvls are equal) But the gap being so small that if I switch to MT while the Guard buffs me, It is still a viable choice.</P> <P>Choosing a MT in pickup groups now seems to be a lot more ballanced than before.  Now if a group shouts for a tank and a Monk/Bruiser responds they will snap em up, whereas before they may have held out for a plate class.  It seems to be more based on group makup now.  If the group already has a lot of DPS and a good healer a Plate tank may be a better choice for the extra edge in tanking, but if the group lacked a little 'oomph' in the DPS part they would be better off with a Brawler tank for the offensive buffs and extra dps they bring.</P> <P>A good example of this would be a Guardian tanking with a Wizzy in the group.  Wizards now get a buff that has a % chance of giving them back power each time the MT gets hit.  Plates get hit a heluva lot now and would give the Wizzy a much bigger boost in Power/DPS......</P> <P>/rant off</P> <P>I LOVE MY GUARDIAN :manhappy:  C'mon guys.... spread the love....</P> <P> </P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <DIV>Yes screenshots go a long way.  You say you have that % mitigation in mid 20's Tresured items at level 34?  You do realize that your mitigation should be going down every level.   Mitigation % = Mitigation Value / Level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's more than I have in handcrafted T5 at 43.  So I have to ask for proof.  I have 39% and can get as high as 56% with both buffs.  And that is with all adept I's.</DIV> <P>If what you say is true then there is something seriously wrong with how they do mitigation.</P> <P>So my suggestion to you is to get screenshots of your stats buffed with and without the 30 second buffs.<BR></P>

[Gladesman]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>From another thread:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>"Guardians were the best tanks because we had nothing else going for us. There's a difference in perception.. guardians were never overpowered just because we were the best tanks <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0> Tanking is NOT everything in EQ2 - tanking a mob doesn't kill it nor does it heal any damage done nor does it do anything for adds and on and on!</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>I never believed anybody else but warriors (so berserkers and guardians), and to a lesser extent crusaders, should be considered 'real' tanks. Sure, brawlers should be able to tank better than scouts, but that's not the main purpose of their class.. or so I believed and still believe <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>But SOE and the brawlers believed something else and the revamp came along. Now, arguing to hell and back about exactly which of the fighter classes should be THE tank is moot, because the reality is that SOE wanted all fighters to be able to tank on an almost equal level - give or take a few %.  </EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>Even if guardians become the best tank again (even by a landslide!), this still wouldn't do anything for me and my guardian right now, because brawlers can STILL tank all the non-epic content AND do DPS AND have all these utility skills. Yes, I would be MT at every single raid, but will that make my class more fun to play? No. Will that make me able to kill solo mobs efficiently? No. Will that make me a desired class for normal exp groups? No. Will this make it so that ANYBODY would consider taking more than 1 guardian in a raidforce? No.</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>I loved being MT for my guild and it's not as if I would be happy if I never got to tank again.. but tanking isn't everything and I will be just as happy standing behind Drayek while a crusader or brawler tanks him, as long as I'm dishing out 300+ DPS or can use any utility/buff skills worth mentioning."</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>At the moment it seems that brawlers are better tanks so that's already pretty crappy, but let's assume that this will get fixed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>What I am saying is that if a brawler is 90% a good a tank as a guardian is, the guardian should get 90% of a brawlers DPS and utility. At the moment a guardian has a whole lot not of nothing going for them when it comes to normal groups / solo content and that 10% extra tanking ability is just not going to cut it if we don't get any utility and improved DPS (in offensive stance that is).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>(NB: A berserker is the "wild" guardian, he's the 2nd best tank and should have slightly better DPS than the guardian + some utility as well (see numerous posts aross the forum for suggestions on these arts/spells))</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>(Reason why I'm using the brawler as an example: I don't really think it's fair to take paladins into consideration in the tank/fighter discussion as they've got really quite good healing AND tanking skills and that is really their thing. A SK has life tap, which is a big part of their range of skills but it seems that SK's are a bit left behind in some parts as well.. but I don't know them well enough to have any reasonable judgement to make. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>But yeah, that's just my 2 cents.</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>

[SwissArmySh]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Yes screenshots go a long way.  You say you have that % mitigation in mid 20's Tresured items at level 34?  You do realize that your mitigation should be going down every level.   Mitigation % = Mitigation Value / Level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's more than I have in handcrafted T5 at 43.  So I have to ask for proof.  I have 39% and can get as high as 56% with both buffs.  And that is with all adept I's.</DIV> <P>If what you say is true then there is something seriously wrong with how they do mitigation.</P> <P>So my suggestion to you is to get screenshots of your stats buffed with and without the 30 second buffs.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok I will try and submit a screenshot when i get home.  Im at work at the moment :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Yes screenshots go a long way.  You say you have that % mitigation in mid 20's Tresured items at level 34?  You do realize that your mitigation should be going down every level.   Mitigation % = Mitigation Value / Level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's more than I have in handcrafted T5 at 43.  So I have to ask for proof.  I have 39% and can get as high as 56% with both buffs.  And that is with all adept I's.</DIV> <P>If what you say is true then there is something seriously wrong with how they do mitigation.</P> <P>So my suggestion to you is to get screenshots of your stats buffed with and without the 30 second buffs.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok I will try and submit a screenshot when i get home.  Im at work at the moment :smileytongue:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks, I'm also stuck at work.

[SwissArmySh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gladesman wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>From another thread:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>"Guardians were the best tanks because we had nothing else going for us. There's a difference in perception.. guardians were never overpowered just because we were the best tanks <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0> Tanking is NOT everything in EQ2 - tanking a mob doesn't kill it nor does it heal any damage done nor does it do anything for adds and on and on!</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>I never believed anybody else but warriors (so berserkers and guardians), and to a lesser extent crusaders, should be considered 'real' tanks. Sure, brawlers should be able to tank better than scouts, but that's not the main purpose of their class.. or so I believed and still believe <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>But SOE and the brawlers believed something else and the revamp came along. Now, arguing to hell and back about exactly which of the fighter classes should be THE tank is moot, because the reality is that SOE wanted all fighters to be able to tank on an almost equal level - give or take a few %.  </EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>Even if guardians become the best tank again (even by a landslide!), this still wouldn't do anything for me and my guardian right now, because brawlers can STILL tank all the non-epic content AND do DPS AND have all these utility skills. Yes, I would be MT at every single raid, but will that make my class more fun to play? No. Will that make me able to kill solo mobs efficiently? No. Will that make me a desired class for normal exp groups? No. Will this make it so that ANYBODY would consider taking more than 1 guardian in a raidforce? No.</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>I loved being MT for my guild and it's not as if I would be happy if I never got to tank again.. but tanking isn't everything and I will be just as happy standing behind Drayek while a crusader or brawler tanks him, as long as I'm dishing out 300+ DPS or can use any utility/buff skills worth mentioning."</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>At the moment it seems that brawlers are better tanks so that's already pretty crappy, but let's assume that this will get fixed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>What I am saying is that if a brawler is 90% a good a tank as a guardian is, the guardian should get 90% of a brawlers DPS and utility. At the moment a guardian has a whole lot not of nothing going for them when it comes to normal groups / solo content and that 10% extra tanking ability is just not going to cut it if we don't get any utility and improved DPS (in offensive stance that is).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>(NB: A berserker is the "wild" guardian, he's the 2nd best tank and should have slightly better DPS than the guardian + some utility as well (see numerous posts aross the forum for suggestions on these arts/spells))</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>(Reason why I'm using the brawler as an example: I don't really think it's fair to take paladins into consideration in the tank/fighter discussion as they've got really quite good healing AND tanking skills and that is really their thing. A SK has life tap, which is a big part of their range of skills but it seems that SK's are a bit left behind in some parts as well.. but I don't know them well enough to have any reasonable judgement to make. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>But yeah, that's just my 2 cents.</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah, I agree.  I already agree that Guardians need a boost in Utillity of some sort, but I do believe however that having that extra Mitigation can be a class defining abillity.  I see Guardians as more of a blank canvas to be built upon within a group, but brings the inate skill of having the best damage mitigation.  A gaurdian is better suited as a tank to a group where utillity and DPS are provided by the group and the Guardian brings 'pure' tankin.  A brawler may have more to offer as a whole but when a group is decked out on DPS and utillity a guardian is the better choice.</P> <P>I see Guardians as the EQ1 warrior tank.  Doesn't really offer anything but pure tanking.  But I beleive this 'pure tanking' is something that can be built on easier as a MT role.  However, this isn't EQ1 and Guardians do need that little extra fluff.</P> <P> </P>

[SwissArmySh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Yes screenshots go a long way.  You say you have that % mitigation in mid 20's Tresured items at level 34?  You do realize that your mitigation should be going down every level.   Mitigation % = Mitigation Value / Level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's more than I have in handcrafted T5 at 43.  So I have to ask for proof.  I have 39% and can get as high as 56% with both buffs.  And that is with all adept I's.</DIV> <P>If what you say is true then there is something seriously wrong with how they do mitigation.</P> <P>So my suggestion to you is to get screenshots of your stats buffed with and without the 30 second buffs.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok I'm home now.....</P> <P>How do you post a screenshot without having to host it somewhere... I dont have anything to host it on :smileysad:</P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Yes screenshots go a long way.  You say you have that % mitigation in mid 20's Tresured items at level 34?  You do realize that your mitigation should be going down every level.   Mitigation % = Mitigation Value / Level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's more than I have in handcrafted T5 at 43.  So I have to ask for proof.  I have 39% and can get as high as 56% with both buffs.  And that is with all adept I's.</DIV> <P>If what you say is true then there is something seriously wrong with how they do mitigation.</P> <P>So my suggestion to you is to get screenshots of your stats buffed with and without the 30 second buffs.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok I'm home now.....</P> <P>How do you post a screenshot without having to host it somewhere... I dont have anything to host it on :smileysad:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have them hosted on my limited website space.  Some use imageshack or other image hosting sites.  Anyone know of a good site for him?

[SwissArmySh]

<P>It's ok guys I've got it</P> <P>Here's one with all my self buffs....</P> <P>I got it wrong before though.  My gear is 30 - 34 but still all treasured and handcrafted and CA's are app3 - adept 1 appart from my protection buffs which are app1 :smileysad:</P> <P><A href="http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eq20000003va.jpg" target=_blank>http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eq20000003va.jpg</A></P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR> <P>It's ok guys I've got it</P> <P>Here's one with all my self buffs....</P> <P>I got it wrong before though.  My gear is 30 - 34 but still all treasured and handcrafted and CA's are app3 - adept 1 appart from my protection buffs which are app1 :smileysad:</P> <P><A href="http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eq20000003va.jpg" target=_blank>http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eq20000003va.jpg</A></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok that's understandable.  When you mentioned the level 20's gear It threw up flags. </P> <P>So you have a 59% Mitigation when totally self buffed.   Last for 30 seconds.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Then you are back down to what?  High 30's low 40's?  Without my 30 second buffs I'm around 39%.  I believe we should be nearer to 49%.</P> <DIV>Thanks again for the screenshot. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Raahl on <span class=date_text>09-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:41 PM</span>

[JBo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR> <P>Aye, Lol :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>The Gaurdian boards are looking really bad at the moment.  Theres a lot of peeps unhappy about where we currently stand.  But when I log in, It doesn't feel that way to me.  Only time will tell if I get in a situation where a Monk or Bruiser MT's better than me AND dishes out better DPS AND buffs the group better.  Since it was stated by the devs that fighters tanking abilities are ballanced by their damage output and utillity but the gaps in tanking will be much smaller.  That is what I am seeing, and believe it is where it should be.  We still do have the edge in tanking (Taunts, better Mit, better buffed Hp's) but do seem to be lacking a little in the 'cool other stuff department':smileytongue:</P> <P>I do think though, that Guardians should have the least DPS/Utillity than the other fighters as long as we remain just <U>slightly</U> ahead on Tanking.  <FONT color=#cc0000><STRONG>I also have a Monk and love to tank with him</STRONG></FONT>, but I still feel it is the place of the Guardian in the group to MT while I offtank, buff and protect the group from adds (given that lvls are equal) But the gap being so small that if I switch to MT while the Guard buffs me, It is still a viable choice.</P> <P>Choosing a MT in pickup groups now seems to be a lot more ballanced than before.  Now if a group shouts for a tank and a Monk/Bruiser responds they will snap em up, whereas before they may have held out for a plate class.  It seems to be more based on group makup now.  If the group already has a lot of DPS and a good healer a Plate tank may be a better choice for the extra edge in tanking, but if the group lacked a little 'oomph' in the DPS part they would be better off with a Brawler tank for the offensive buffs and extra dps they bring.</P> <P>A good example of this would be a Guardian tanking with a Wizzy in the group.  Wizards now get a buff that has a % chance of giving them back power each time the MT gets hit.  Plates get hit a heluva lot now and would give the Wizzy a much bigger boost in Power/DPS......</P> <P>/rant off</P> <P>I LOVE MY GUARDIAN :manhappy:  C'mon guys.... spread the love....</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Pry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR> <DIV>I logged on yesterday with my 34 Gaurdian <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana>Enough Said.  Next?</FONT></DIV>

[SwissArmySh]

<DIV>Regardless, Lvl 34 is as important to me as lvl 33 and will be as important to me as lvl 60.  I'm here for the journey guys.  If i state that I am happy with the way I Tank at lvl 34 how can I be wrong?  It is my opinion.  What has "Go and level to 60 then come back and tell us" have to do with anything?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So then, just to be clear.... Guardians are useless at lvl 50 + then?  K gotcha</DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>The problems arent and never have been in the lowbie levels. The problems start to manifest themselves post level 45 in the classes.  At 36 or whatever level you are right now, all the tanks are pretty equal, those of us complaining and asking for a change are those of us playing the raiding end game and the post 50 experiencing game.  So your statements on how u like being a level 36 guardian dont really apply to what most of us are trying to accomplish.</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR> <DIV>Regardless, Lvl 34 is as important to me as lvl 33 and will be as important to me as lvl 60.  I'm here for the journey guys.  If i state that I am happy with the way I Tank at lvl 34 how can I be wrong?  It is my opinion.  What has "Go and level to 60 then come back and tell us" have to do with anything?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So then, just to be clear.... Guardians are useless at lvl 50 + then?  K gotcha</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I could be wrong, but I think they are trying to state that your guardian is an alt that you rarely play.</P> <P>Is the guardian your main?</P>

[SwissArmySh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <P>The problems arent and never have been in the lowbie levels. The problems start to manifest themselves post level 45 in the classes.  At 36 or whatever level you are right now, all the tanks are pretty equal, those of us complaining and asking for a change are those of us playing the raiding end game and the post 50 experiencing game.  So your statements on how u like being a level 36 guardian dont really apply to what most of us are trying to accomplish.</P> <P> </P> <P>Covenant</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well then, that explains it :smileyhappy:

[SwissArmySh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR> <DIV>Regardless, Lvl 34 is as important to me as lvl 33 and will be as important to me as lvl 60.  I'm here for the journey guys.  If i state that I am happy with the way I Tank at lvl 34 how can I be wrong?  It is my opinion.  What has "Go and level to 60 then come back and tell us" have to do with anything?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So then, just to be clear.... Guardians are useless at lvl 50 + then?  K gotcha</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I could be wrong, but I think they are trying to state that your guardian is an alt that you rarely play.</P> <P>Is the guardian your main?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, my 34 Gaurdian is my main and I am a casual player.  My monk is only lvl 24 at the moment and I have 2 other alts around lvl 20.  Been playing since last November.  </P> <P>Compared to most of the guys that post here I am a complete newb and I admit that.  I am not trying to debate that there isn't a problem in the end game so to speak, but rather that for the casual play style that I am refering to, I have found so far that the combat changes seem ok to me.  </P> <P>I like the changes and where they are heading.  But I have now discovered that there must be bigger reasons as to why we are imbalanced and that is something I am yet to discover.</P>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SwissArmyShoe wrote:<BR> <DIV>Regardless, Lvl 34 is as important to me as lvl 33 and will be as important to me as lvl 60.  I'm here for the journey guys.  If i state that I am happy with the way I Tank at lvl 34 how can I be wrong?  It is my opinion.  What has "Go and level to 60 then come back and tell us" have to do with anything?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So then, just to be clear.... Guardians are useless at lvl 50 + then?  K gotcha</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I could be wrong, but I think they are trying to state that your guardian is an alt that you rarely play.</P> <P>Is the guardian your main?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, my 34 Gaurdian is my main and I am a casual player.  My monk is only lvl 24 at the moment and I have 2 other alts around lvl 20.  Been playing since last November. </P> <P>Compared to most of the guys that post here I am a complete newb and I admit that.  I am not trying to debate that there isn't a problem in the end game so to speak, but rather that for the casual play style that I am refering to, I have found so far that the combat changes seem ok to me. </P> <P>I like the changes and where they are heading.  But I have now discovered that there must be bigger reasons as to why we are imbalanced and that is something I am yet to discover.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You just started posting at a bad time.   The combat changes have a number of people upset and a few non-guardians keep throwing blood in the water, so to speak.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure on why we were so severely nerfed.  But as long as we keep letting sony know what we are running into we can hope they will fix things.</DIV>