Please remove the root effect of HTL line of spells

[JBo]

<DIV>The root effect of HTL line of spells is very annoying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know who has invented this spell, but the game is all about playing and enjoying the game. Root and uproot yourself in the ground every one minute is apparently not an enjoying experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The entertainment side apart, the root effect has put guardians in a very unfortunate position. When some other groupmates get aggro, or are jumped by adds, you need to uproot yourself, rush to the adds, and root yourself again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am feeling like I am a tree, not a tank. A tank is supposed to move around and attack enemy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please remove the root effect of HTL line of spells. Guardians are supposed to tank as well as other fighter classes. But apparently we can't do our tanking jobs as effeciently as other fighter classes right now, as we need to be rooted to hold aggro, and other fighter classes don't need to be rooted.</DIV>

[dpsman]

<P>I agree,</P> <P>Us Guardians already got nerfed into oblivion, is it really needed to root us? Are we being punished because we are taunting?</P>

[Danter]

<P>Anchor should get changed, too, where it's root effect is adjusted to a 50% slow.</P> <P>Seems like every battle...Pull, MD, Anchor -> Can't see target, mob in wall, cancel anchor.  Now a 3 minute re-use timer, which is way too long, cancel MD, reposition.  Now I lost aggro and it's impossible to get it back without rescue since our direct taunts suck.</P>

[restinpea]

<P>Identical feelings for me , now i don t bother use MD and entrench like spells ... i got bored pretty quickly after the revamp. Right click->Cancel for each encounter seriously . Now i simply ask dps guys to calm down or assume it (lol)  cauze i keep rescue for the healer. I don t group often but with those guardian's agro Probs i noticed groups don t "really" want a guardian absolutly for tank.</P> <P>I already listen answer to that : "that a special situation spell (MD) so do not use it all time" . i reply by advance :  our other taunt don t suck too bad BUT (there is a "but" yes) imagine wee need to chain taunt  (group taunt-single taunt-taunt strike) and prey to not get add cause chaining is cool but with timer adds HAVE to come when Taunt are up ...please^^</P> <P>Do not forget , while we chain taunt we not use our utility spells (slow , dps , debuffs etc...) cause i need to taunt like an idiot to not loose agro to prouve i am usefull.</P> <P>May be i exagered a bit on this post but be sure i am not so far from the true.</P> <P>(sorry for my mediocre english spelling)</P>

[JBo]

<DIV>Have to aggree that our other taunts are very weak too. Since we don't have other utility spells to help us increase hate, we can only rely on our 4 taunts and maddening defense to root us at this time.  And it doesn't work neither.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brawlers can taunt with each attack to establish aggro.</DIV> <DIV>Paladins can generate huge aggro by healing themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians can't generate more aggro then the 4 taunts and the  maddening defense which root us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is really a serious issure for the guardian subclass.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No utility, no DPS, no more mitigation, no more HP, and need root ourselves frequently.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other guardians in our guild don't even bother to log on these days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Korwyn]

<P>Another good idea...I hate being rooted during a fight...is a pia.</P> <P> </P> <P>Cormac</P>

[Raahl]

<P>I really don't have problems with being rooted.  Vary rarely do I need to move while tanking.  When I do need to, I drop the HTL, move and reinitiate it.</P> <P>Though there is something missing with our other taunts.  Either raise their hate or reduce their recast timers.</P>

[Gladesman]

<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>From the "unbalanced" thread where I said:</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>We have a few spells that root us in place (for really no good reason, but that's besides the point), Maddening Defense being the major one and that's one we're apparently really supposed to be using. Would it maybe be possible to add a "resist knock-back" component to this? Right now I don't like to use it because wherever I go mobs seem to have this knock-back spell (I'd also love to have it!!) and they knock me off things or through walls and such and when they do I am still magically rooted so I have to constantly toggle this spell and as I'm out of range when I'm knocked away having it on is kind of useless now anyway (as it only generates hate when I'm getting hit). I don't expect to have a 100% resistance, but 50% would already be helpful!</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>And:</FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE><EM> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT></P></EM> <HR> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Nemi wrote:<BR></FONT></P> <P><EM><FONT face=Verdana size=2>I further agree you could remove the root and replace it with a high level slow.</FONT></EM></P> <P><EM><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT></EM></P><EM><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT></EM> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>With removing the root they can also add in a knock-back resist!! <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2><EM>By the way, we have two other buffs that "slow" us tremendously so adding a slow onto MD is not exactly a good solution either. I would really rather have the root and a knock-back/down resist built in. I can easily toggle MD after every fight it's just that with all these stupid knock-backs I constantly get the whole MD spell doesn't make much sense anymore - aside from not being able to see/hit the mob myself and having to reposition (ie: switch MD on and off multiple times per fight..), the mob also doesn't see me anymore and often starts hitting on someone else standing closer / hitting it / healing me thus eliminating the whole effect of the spell.</EM></FONT></P>

[Dedi]

Please change Maddening defense to a snare rather than a root.  It is absolutely required for us to hold agro, and being rooted 90% of the time gets old rather quickly.  Anchor is a root and i'm fine with it considering its a (very) short duration buff that isn't needed every single pull.  Maddening defense is needed every single pull and is required to hold agro. <div></div>

[JBo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <P>I really don't have problems with being rooted.  <FONT color=#cc0000>Vary rarely do I need to move while tanking</FONT>.  When I do need to, I drop the HTL, move and reinitiate it.</P> <P>Though there is something missing with our other taunts.  Either raise their hate or reduce their recast timers.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P>Yes, under normal circumstances, you might not need to move yourself. But when things go wrong, you will understand the catastrophic results of losing mobility.</P> <P>There are certain encounters which you must move:</P> <UL> <LI>Adds jumping on healers or casters: The adds can be wandering mobs in a dungeon, or unexpected respawns, or just simply mobs came from nowhere. Usually, healers and casters stand out side of mobs's AOE ranges, and when mobs jump from behind on them, you can't taunt the mobs off them. By the time you cancel your root, and move to taunt, the healers or casters are usually dead. This will typically cause a whole group wipe out.</LI> <LI>Raid spawns: Most raid boss mobs spawn additional mobs at certain stages. If guardians lost mobility when the mobs spawned, it can be catastrophic for the whole raid force.</LI> <LI>Mobs stuck in wall: Sometime mobs can be bugged and stuck in wall. You won't be able to attack it, but it can still attack you.</LI></UL> <P>The conclusion is that the root effect has put guardians in a very unfortunate position compared to other figher subclasses.</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Raahl]

That's some strong arguments Jboot.   Perhaps Sony should consider taking away the root, or replacing it, in our HTL.

[Tomanak]

I have to agree. Remove to root or at least try and provide a reasonable explanation as to why its there other than as a method to penalize the caster for the uber hate it generates...As JBoots points out, there are times when being rooted can be fatal.

[Shizzirri]

<DIV>If you we're an NPC and you knew the tank you we're beating on rooted himself in an attempt to generate hate would you attack that tank?  I doubt it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The whole idea of the spell is kind of [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], a snare effect maybe.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<P>I can see your point, but monks have to root/stun themselves to get really good mitigation.  Seems like sort of the same thing, since you have to do it to get really good aggro.</P> <P>Besides, it fits with the name of the spell.</P> <P>Although Nemi's slow/no-knockback idea is good too.</P>

[KiseroHT]

<P>i agree being rooted bites big time.. i am actually kinda used to it now though. i used htl alot in my teens and twenties,  and often on raids to get that little bit extra aggro. one thing to consider is some other classes also get rooted to provide better spells; i know that our warden in group will activate his macro "Healer is ROOTED now!"  before tuff fights.. i think the spell is Duststorm - it used to provide additional avoidance but now just increases chance to stun mob * i think not sure * -  Anyway I tell everyone in group to pivot on the healer if we get adds; I will hit MD again to cancel, switch to the add and taunt either single or AE, pull all mobs closer to healer, switch back to orignal mob(s), hit MD again and then usually hit tremor to provide an area attack to let all the mobs in the area know i mean business.</P> <P>you have to have some strategy for sure; and i think us guards have to have good tactics for sure to be successful. one thing im not going to do is let being rooted stop me from being the best tank possible for my guild.</P>

[Raahl]

<P>During normal use the HTL skills are fine.  It's during certain types of encounters that it fails.</P>

[JBo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <P>I can see your point, but <FONT color=#cc0000>monks have to root/stun themselves to get really good mitigation</FONT>.  Seems like sort of the same thing, since you have to do it to get really good aggro.</P> <P>Besides, it fits with the name of the spell.</P> <P>Although Nemi's slow/no-knockback idea is good too.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P>Gaige, you don't play a guardian, so I could understand that you lacked some basic knowledges. Since you have less knowledges, I also can understand that you have less logical conclusions.</P> <P>You know what:</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Guardians have to root/stun themselves to get really good mitigation too!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>And monks don't need to root themselves to get really good aggro.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> JBoot wrote: <P>Gaige, you don't play a guardian, so I could understand that you lacked some basic knowledges. Since you have less knowledges, I also can understand that you have less logical conclusions.</P> <P>You know what:</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Guardians have to root/stun themselves to get really good mitigation too!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>And monks don't need to root themselves to get really good aggro.</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>HAHAHA.  Oh well, I'm wrong a lot.  Comes with being human.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But in this case, I think the root should be removed.  Since, as you so accurately pointed out, our threat buff doesn't root us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fair is fair.<BR></DIV>

[JBo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> JBoot wrote: <P>Gaige, you don't play a guardian, so I could understand that you lacked some basic knowledges. Since you have less knowledges, I also can understand that you have less logical conclusions.</P> <P>You know what:</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Guardians have to root/stun themselves to get really good mitigation too!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>And monks don't need to root themselves to get really good aggro.</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>HAHAHA.  Oh well, I'm wrong a lot.  Comes with being human.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But in this case, I think the root should be removed.  Since, as you so accurately pointed out, our threat buff doesn't root us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fair is fair.<BR></DIV> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P>Thanks for support, Gaige!</P> <P>Now we only need an answer from a developer please!</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Raahl]

To tell you the truth I think the HTL spells is just fine.  Yea it's a pain but it seems to work fine and if we need to move you just toggle it off and back on.

[JBo]

<P>Sure it's working. But why do you need to root yourself, while nobody else is doing this? What's the benefit of rooting yourself?</P> <P> </P>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>i dont have a problem with the root, i have a problem with the effective ness. no it does not pull aggro enough as it should and i have master 2 md, please make the taunt off this spell more effective.</DIV>

[JBo]

<DIV>More aggro would be better also. However, you don't need to sacrifice your mobility to get it.</DIV>

[Raahl]

Perhaps if Sony made the taunt from HTL a Group AE taunt?

[AwesomeSau]

<P>Finally, a bandwagon that SOE might actually pay attention to. I might as well jump on in saying that being rooted in Blades towers has already gotten' me wiped numerous times.<BR><BR>A. I HTL in a corner and a guard walks into the wall behind me, knockbacks, and I fall to my death. (Happened twice now)</P> <P>B. I HTL in a corner but I get stunned and my aggro isn't quite established yet. The mob runs off to another member and I have to cancel HTL in order to run over to them and use rescue. The problem with this is that rescue is usually down and my regular taunts make it a b*tch to regain aggro OR the mob walks under the world and I can't get a good position before said party member dies.</P> <P>C. I pull a group encounter and heals or DPS causes one of the mobs to flee to another member. If it's the healer and I have to cancel HTL before I snag the aggro, the healer WILL and always has died.</P> <P>These scenarios also are a little biased to high dps groups, but that's all I'm really left with in my guild anyway. The point is, DPS should be able to give mobs all that they've got, and when Guardians give everything they've got, they should be able to do their jobs appropriately. Our HTL spells make it impossible for us to save groups in nasty situations, and get us killed in rather silly manners. =/</P><p>Message Edited by AwesomeSauce on <span class=date_text>09-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:59 AM</span>

[JBo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AwesomeSauce wrote:<BR> <P>Finally, a bandwagon that SOE might actually pay attention to. I might as well jump on in saying that being rooted in Blades towers has already gotten' me wiped numerous times.<BR><BR>A. I HTL in a corner and a guard walks into the wall behind me, knockbacks, and I fall to my death. (Happened twice now)</P> <P>B. I HTL in a corner but I get stunned and my aggro isn't quite established yet. The mob runs off to another member and I have to cancel HTL in order to run over to them and use rescue. The problem with this is that rescue is usually down and my regular taunts make it a b*tch to regain aggro OR the mob walks under the world and I can't get a good position before said party member dies.</P> <P>C. I pull a group encounter and heals or DPS causes one of the mobs to flee to another member. If it's the healer and I have to cancel HTL before I snag the aggro, the healer WILL and always has died.</P> <P>These scenarios also are a little biased to high dps groups, but that's all I'm really left with in my guild anyway. The point is, DPS should be able to give mobs all that they've got, and when Guardians give everything they've got, they should be able to do their jobs appropriately. <FONT color=#cc0000>Our HTL spells make it impossible for us to save groups in nasty situations, and get us killed in rather silly manners</FONT>. =/</P> <P>Message Edited by AwesomeSauce on <SPAN class=date_text>09-23-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>06:59 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Well, I couldn't care more about you guys. But sorry, I really hate the silly thoughts of SOE. I am quitting. Not just this one. A straw wouldn't break the back of a donkey. Even millions of straws might not break its back neighter. But, heck,  the last straw always break your back.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[bonesbro]

<P>I agree that HTL shouldn't root the Guardian.  HTL is the specialty taunt for Warriors, like Dragon Stance for Brawlers and whatever the agro-siphons are for Crusaders.  They don't taunt, and don't have negative effects.</P> <P>Other classes have abilities that self-root but they have effects similar to Anchor and Wall of Brawn, so they should probably remain unchanged.</P>