Monk's and Guardians traded places [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Kfi

09-18-2005, 06:35 PM

I dont get what SOE has done. They said they wanted every fighter to be equal. Well this is not the case. After watching a few monks solo ^^, and in one case solo a ^^^ what was the point in switching the roles of the guardian and monk?What is SOE trying to accomplish? Is it really true that if a class [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]es enough about something, that they cater to them?This is the 3rd major combat change of this game. If anyone was in beta, you;ll know they revamped combat ONE week before launch. Yes you read right, they totaly revamped the combat 1 week before Nov 11th live date.So here we are, 250,000 less subscribers then there was a year ago, and they are still [Removed for Content] off there customers.SOE if you goal is to make people happy, and gain new subscribers, your going about it the wrong way.If there was one thing I could request that be changed, it would be our mitigation. It makes no sence that a monk has twice our avoidance and 1000+ more mitigation.. What happend to class balance?Please think about why you took away most our mitigation and avoidenance and gave it to a monk? Why do they get to Avoid 80% and Mitigate 80%? Yet we cant get over 50%?What is the role of a Guardian?What is the role of a Monk?Thanks[Removed for Content] off customer.

Kfi

09-18-2005, 06:41 PM

I'd also like to say, why not leave guardians the way they were, and give the monks an upgrade? This way we would almost be even, but as of now Monks are the prefered fighter class.

jinxedup

09-18-2005, 07:00 PM

you are an idiot

Raahl

09-18-2005, 08:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jinxedup wrote: you are an idiot <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Nice argument. sigh. Your comment was so helpful. Go troll somewhere else. I haven't seen any monks in action yet, but from the look of their forum, they dodged the nerf bat. If they are solo'ing Heroic mobs then there is a definite problem. Message Edited by Raahl on 09-18-2005 12:22 PM

hyks

09-18-2005, 09:44 PM

they giving bruisers everything....they have better Def, taunts, and dps. bruisers are the new guardians in eq2 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . kinda sad since when does light armor compare to plate armor?!?! ow, im looking for a new game selling my two accounts and moving on. was told that Vanguard is coming out soon. its the same devs that made eq1 who sold it to soe .... no clue but what ive been told. not going back to eq1 since the same devs in eq2 are controling it and im sure they will $#$#$ it up!!!

Gaige

09-19-2005, 01:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kfial wrote: If there was one thing I could request that be changed, it would be our mitigation. It makes no sence that a monk has twice our avoidance and 1000+ more mitigation.. What happend to class balance? Proof? I certainly don't have twice Noah's avoidance with 1000+ more mitigation. Please think about why you took away most our mitigation and avoidenance and gave it to a monk? Why do they get to Avoid 80% and Mitigate 80%? Yet we cant get over 50%? We can't get 80/80. I'd like [Removed for Content] of a monk/bruiser who can. Besides they nerfed the bruiser's mitigation buff anyway. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Krooner

09-19-2005, 03:16 AM

<DIV>No Gaige they didnt "Nerf" it. Nerfing it would have been making it a 30 second buff with a 2 minute recast like all the other timed stances. Which is what it should be, a short duration buff that you cant chain cast and keep up continually.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Moontayle

09-19-2005, 05:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kfial wrote: So here we are, 250,000 less subscribers then there was a year ago, and they are still [Removed for Content] off there customers. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>If you're going to spout numbers at least try and reference a source. According to mmorpgchart.com, as of July EQ2 had about 275k subscribers. </DIV>

Markhe

09-19-2005, 08:37 AM

July was also pre-revamp, and even still EQ2 is at the very bottom of the pile. What do you think that chart is going to look like in 3 months? <div></div>

Moontayle

09-19-2005, 08:59 AM

I was calling out the blatant exaggeration of the poster's comment. EQ2 never had more than 300k subscribers and I highly doubt SOE would allow 20+ servers to exist if they had had a drop of 250k subscribers as he said. Fudge the numbers all you want, the game is still popular, and in a world devoid of Blizzard, it would be doing quite well indeed.

Vorham

09-19-2005, 11:31 AM

just to clarify, you can't chain cast the bruiser mit buff... it lasts for 3 mins, then when it wears off the spell greys out for 3 mins

AwesomeSau

09-19-2005, 02:48 PM

<DIV>Vorham... That is the greatest sig that I've ever seen.</DIV>

blueduckie

09-19-2005, 02:52 PM

3 min is alot better than 30 seconds. Have 3 min resue on one and 1.5 min reuse on the other. Id rather have 3 min on 3 min off on both. As i said on another post - Guardians evac with commanding pressence up and it will perma stay on. Abuse the bug til they fix it IMO. Am sure it works for bruiser buffs etc to. Evac with short duration mitigation buffs on. Fight the machine called soe with there own bugs! :p Nah isnt much need to on xp mobs just need to find good spots and have good group. However that is a big bug atm.

Raahl

09-19-2005, 06:08 PM

Monks come out of the woodwork. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But that is to be expected with a post like this. Gage, buff up you character for defense and post the screenshots here. Also could a similarly equiped guardian of gage's level do the same. Lets disprove/prove this myth right here. I do believe that monks got the better end of the stick when it comes to aggro. You have a chance to gain hate everytime you hit, we have a chance to gain hate when hit. If we lose aggro we have to rely on our 3 or so taunts to get it back.

Gaige

09-19-2005, 06:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote: I do believe that monks got the better end of the stick when it comes to aggro. You have a chance to gain hate everytime you hit, we have a chance to gain hate when hit. If we lose aggro we have to rely on our 3 or so taunts to get it back. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I have a hard time understanding how that is much different. Its in fact better in your case against multiple mobs because you get hit more than we can hit. /shrug

Prufro

09-19-2005, 06:12 PM

<blockquote><hr>Raahl wrote:Monks come out of the woodwork. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But that is to be expected with a post like this. Gage, buff up you character for defense and post the screenshots here. Also could a similarly equiped guardian of gage's level do the same. Lets disprove/prove this myth right here. I do believe that monks got the better end of the stick when it comes to aggro. You have a chance to gain hate everytime you hit, we have a chance to gain hate when hit. If we lose aggro we have to rely on our 3 or so taunts to get it back. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I think there's something broken with us losing aggro and gaining it back. It's almost like we drop 2-3 spots in hate level just because we lost aggro. I had a situation where i lost aggro, had all three taunts up, two at adept III and one at master II, and still i couldn't get aggro. I was forced to use rescue, but with a 10 min timer this isn't something we should have to rely on. (yes, HTL was up and is at adept III as well, it's a spell we can't live without anymore)<div></div>

Raahl

09-19-2005, 06:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote: I do believe that monks got the better end of the stick when it comes to aggro. You have a chance to gain hate everytime you hit, we have a chance to gain hate when hit. If we lose aggro we have to rely on our 3 or so taunts to get it back. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I have a hard time understanding how that is much different. Its in fact better in your case against multiple mobs because you get hit more than we can hit. /shrug <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Gage the main difference is that you have an easier time getting aggro off of other members. At least in theory you should. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If the mob is attacking the guardian then yea we are equal. It's when it's not attacking the guardian, our HTL skill is useless.

Gaige

09-19-2005, 06:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote: Gage the main difference is that you have an easier time getting aggro off of other members. At least in theory you should. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If the mob is attacking the guardian then yea we are equal. It's when it's not attacking the guardian, our HTL skill is useless. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I suppose but I imagine that your normal taunts + rescue should be sufficient. Perhaps you have a point though. Are you *sure* its not just because reactive hate is fixed and you can't sit there watching tv and hold aggro? Just curious.

Raahl

09-19-2005, 06:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote: Gage the main difference is that you have an easier time getting aggro off of other members. At least in theory you should. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If the mob is attacking the guardian then yea we are equal. It's when it's not attacking the guardian, our HTL skill is useless. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I suppose but I imagine that your normal taunts + rescue should be sufficient. Perhaps you have a point though. Are you *sure* its not just because reactive hate is fixed and you can't sit there watching tv and hold aggro? Just curious. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Rescue is nice. Just that 10 minute recast timer makes it usefull only every so often. Don't know about the TV comment. Never watched TV and played the game before. And yes holding aggro pre-LU#13 was a joke. <DIV>In your experiance, once you lose aggro can you get it back? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's really difficult for me to get it back once it's lost. Usually from a healer type because they have to start healing themselves and well the hate just starts to flow. If rescue is up, I have a decent chance to get it back. If it's not, It's almost impossible for me to get it back.</DIV>

Edyil

09-19-2005, 06:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote: Gage the main difference is that you have an easier time getting aggro off of other members. At least in theory you should. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If the mob is attacking the guardian then yea we are equal. It's when it's not attacking the guardian, our HTL skill is useless. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I suppose but I imagine that your normal taunts + rescue should be sufficient. Perhaps you have a point though. Are you *sure* its not just because reactive hate is fixed and you can't sit there watching tv and hold aggro? Just curious. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Rescue is nice. Just that 10 minute recast timer makes it usefull only every so often. Don't know about the TV comment. Never watched TV and played the game before. And yes holding aggro pre-LU#13 was a joke. <DIV>In your experiance, once you lose aggro can you get it back? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's really difficult for me to get it back once it's lost. Usually from a healer type because they have to start healing themselves and well the hate just starts to flow. If rescue is up, I have a decent chance to get it back. If it's not, It's almost impossible for me to get it back.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's very hard to get agro back. But it also depends on what has happened right when Mob1 of a group of multi-mobs has died. Something happens with the agro list where everything is whipped in certain circumstances. It's not that we (tanks) drop on the list, its that the list is refreshed. So those that are at the top are those that have buffed the group, happen to be healing as mob one dies (Templar on-death reactive anyone?), druid regens or those that are nuking right at that moment. The amount of hate generated in those few seconds (when the list has just be cleared) is extremely hard for all tanks to overcome. It is not a function of one class vs another. The question should be: Is the agro wipe on mob death intentional or a bug? I've brought this up several times but have never gotten an answer. As for the stats, I will never see 65% avoidance unless I get all Fabled gear, all master2 in D and my GF (Warden) get's all master2 buffs. And even then, I serioulsy doubt I would see 65%. A plus 30 agi buff nets me 2% max. 80% will never be possible as far as I can tell, but I really am just a casual monk (zero fabled and only trainable masters - no adept3s even). And as a casual, I cannot solo minimum green ^^^ mobs. Believe me, I tried many times. I can solo minimum green ^^ mobs, but those are 10 levels below me and I suspect any casual Guard can do the same. If you are talking about uber monks with uber gear, I'm sure they can do some amazing things and should be able to on rare occasions. Same with any other class regarding power players. That's just the way the food chain works.