A sad Guardian and his 2 cents

[Morv]

<DIV>Okay I was really looking forward to this combat update I thought maybe we might have some more fun with it but I am sad to say that I am totally disappointed. Right now I feel that i am a tank that can't tank....I get killed by lvl 40 heroic mobs and I am level 50 with 2 fabeled peices of armor and all the rest legendary including weapons. Furthermore this is not me trying to kill the level 40 mobs this is me trying to run away. I get stunned alot now and i just stand there like a fool not able to do much. I die all the time and do not kill anything higher than blues for they are hard enough. I got in a group last night with a illisionist and 2 rangers and they we're nice enough to let me in (they we're guildies)because my class is clearly not needed anymore they told me to sit on the side and watch while they took out lvl 49 ^^^ heroic mobs. Root nuke shoot with arrows mez root repeat, I didn't even get to pull anything the illisionist did it all himself. It depresses me to not be able to tank anymore I need 2 healers now if i'm going to be the tank. I can't even harvest in lavastorm anymore because it usually ends up like this i harvest 1 or 2 nodes oh there's a mining node i might get something neat out of that, then i get a little too close to one of those nasty goblins and they almost kill me either running away or trying to get to the docks fast as I can. All in all I really don't like my class anymore I'm glad I made a dirge while waiting for the expansion so I don't have to quit the game I'm just sad to see my main character go down the tubes after one patch I really hope they fix this...</DIV>

[Raahl]

<DIV>Sony have made it so you cannot solo heroic mobs.  Which to me is the way it should be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can either deal with it and adjust your play style or you can leave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's taking me quite a bit of time to get use to the changes and I haven't gotten everything figured out yet.   Make some constructive realistic suggestions, cause Sony is listening.  They have already said that they are working on changes to Harclave to make them more guardian/fighter friendly.  Right now it's impossible to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far it looks like most of us believe the following areas need changed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Mitigation.  We need a higher base mitigation.</DIV> <DIV>2. Resistances.  We need higher base resistances.</DIV> <DIV>3. Slight increase in our taunts.  It's extremely tough to keep aggro.  A little boost should make it less work but still a challenge.</DIV>

[Morv]

Who said anything about leaving I'm just telling sony what I think of my class now and I didn't say i was trying to kill the heroic mobs i said I was trying to run away from them....You  really know how to jump on someone's back geez

[Landiin]

<div></div> <span><blockquote><hr>Raahl wrote:<div></div><div> </div> <div>1. Mitigation.  We need a higher base mitigation.</div> <div>2. Resistances.  We need higher base resistances.</div> <div>3. Slight increase in our taunts.  It's extremely tough to keep aggro.  A little boost should make it less work but still a challenge.</div><hr></blockquote> I'll have to agree on the mit but not to much more. Maybe resist but I havn't really ran into any trouble here, sure I get stunned a lot but now that I am use to my new class keeping agro while stunned isn't hard. Which leads to 3, taunts seem fine to me, Sure DPSers can't go all out but why should they be able to. Sure any wizard/warlock can pull agro from me a any time, but if they use a tad bit of agro controle I have no trouble holding agro and if they do pull agro I just say, this isn't EQ2 1.0 use a bit of controle. If we have so much agro that it makes it hard for them to pull agro then no skill would be needed to play the class.  For the most part I like the changes now that I have learned my new class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our new buffs are the win! The old way I soem times felt like a bard in EQlive twising songs lol..</span> <div></div> <div></div>

[Larri]

<DIV>Try using defensive stance when you are MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night (my first night fighting after combat revamp), I cannot tank a level 42^^^ named or a level 47^^^ normal mob at all with my templar and illusionist guildie.  Today, I used my defensive stance, and am able to take out the level 50^^^ giants outside solusek eye with the same group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All the spells need to be studied and your hotkeys remade.  The combats are much more closer than before revamp, but doable.</DIV>

[Moontayle]

<DIV>For Heroics you definitely need a group to have any sort of chance unless they're like 20 levels below you. Without a group I have no chance in hell of hitting much above 60% mitigation. With just the buffs from a Paladin and a Warden I was sitting at 63% and with Commanding Presence and Entrench I was hitting over 68%. I managed to land a Hero's Armor HO and I was sitting pretty at 80% mitigation for 30 seconds. I fully plan on Adept 3'ing my defensive stance the first chance I get. Maybe when SOE's prediction of more Legendary resources comes to light and the price of a Ruby on Everfrost drops below 2p again.</DIV>

[Greysta]

<BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morvik wrote:<BR> <DIV>. I got in a group last night with a illisionist and 2 rangers and they we're nice enough to let me in (they we're guildies)because my class is clearly not needed anymore they told me to sit on the side and watch while they took out lvl 49 ^^^ heroic mobs. Root nuke shoot with arrows mez root repeat, I didn't even get to pull anything the illisionist did it all himself. It depresses me to not be able to tank anymore I need 2 healers now if i'm going to be the tank. I can't even harvest in lavastorm anymore because it usually ends up like this i harvest 1 or 2 nodes oh there's a mining node i might get something neat out of that, then i get a little too close to one of those nasty goblins and they almost kill me either running away or trying to get to the docks fast as I can. All in all I really don't like my class anymore<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well since Landin and Raahl are far to busy to actually read what Morvik is trying to say before they jump on the "everything is fine" SOE fanboi wagon I will cut right to the chase and try to make it a bit easier for them to understand the problem.</P> <P>The guardian class is no longer needed. DO you understand? Other classes can now do our job do it better and offer much more to a group then. "hey if you change the way you play I can still tank for you". Why bother with a guardian when your pet can out tank him AND you can get a REAL contributing member to join your group?<BR></P> <P>Yes you can still play your guardian (some) question is. Who will want you too when you what you bring to the table is not worth having?</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Greystaff on <span class=date_text>09-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:35 AM</span>

[Korwyn]

<P>You hit the mark 100% there!!  We went to SE and I spent most of my time using a bow while the Wiz, Warden and Ranger rooted and destroyed the mobs...WOW so much fun there!  But it was easier since the Warden had more trouble keeping me healed.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks SOE....</P> <P>Cormac 48 Guardian</P>

[Drakeb]

<DIV>I agree with Graystaff, right now guardians have no role on the game I played with my wife yesterday and her pet that it's 5 lvl's below me was doing a better job tanking that I was doing. I was just tagging along for xp. I'm a lvl 30 human Guardian, she's a lvl 24 conjurer, we were killing lvl 26 mobs the highest ^^^ nothing heroic. And yes I used my defensive stance and have legendary weapon and shield with pristine imbued feyiron armor. So it should be relatively easy for me to tank them. Also I can't take on anything above lvl 25^^, if I do I end up running away or dieing.</DIV>

[Larri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Greystaff wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morvik wrote:<BR> <DIV>. I got in a group last night with a illisionist and 2 rangers and they we're nice enough to let me in (they we're guildies)because my class is clearly not needed anymore they told me to sit on the side and watch while they took out lvl 49 ^^^ heroic mobs. Root nuke shoot with arrows mez root repeat, I didn't even get to pull anything the illisionist did it all himself. It depresses me to not be able to tank anymore I need 2 healers now if i'm going to be the tank. I can't even harvest in lavastorm anymore because it usually ends up like this i harvest 1 or 2 nodes oh there's a mining node i might get something neat out of that, then i get a little too close to one of those nasty goblins and they almost kill me either running away or trying to get to the docks fast as I can. All in all I really don't like my class anymore<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well since Landin and Raahl are far to busy to actually read what Morvik is trying to say before they jump on the "everything is fine" SOE fanboi wagon I will cut right to the chase and try to make it a bit easier for them to understand the problem.</P> <P>The guardian class is no longer needed. DO you understand? Other classes can now do our job do it better and offer much more to a group then. "hey if you change the way you play I can still tank for you". Why bother with a guardian when your pet can out tank him AND you can get a REAL contributing member to join your group?<BR></P> <P>Yes you can still play your guardian (some) question is. Who will want you too when you what you bring to the table is not worth having?</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Greystaff on <SPAN class=date_text>09-17-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:35 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have to disagree because of the following reasons:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(1)  It is not clear what level the rangers and illusionists are, and assuming that they are level 50, they are killing blue ^^^ mobs in a group of 3 (excluding the guardian himself).  This matches the description of ^^^ where they are intended for groups of 3 or more.  So, it is more likely that they happen to find a place where their group makeup can hunt efficiently and cannot use this to say the guardian is useless across the board.  Say, were the 49^^^ casters?  If the 49^^^ has range attack, will their group makeup be so effecient anymore?  Also, the players have been asking SOE to not make any class mandatory in a group.  Isn't this a good example of creative use of skill and also a case where any group of 3 can hunt around?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(2)  The OP mentioned he cannot tank anything without 2 healers.  At level 46, I can and have tanked level 50^^^ giants in a group of 3 (the third being an illusionist which is not high up in DPS tier) with only 1 templar.  And whole group has no fabled gear nor Adept III spells.  We even have not selected our Master II trainings!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do we need to learn some skills?  Yes.  The night before, I feel exactly like OP because I cannot tank level 42^^^ named with the same group of 3.  But a little tweaking makes wonder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before calling me a fanboy, my account actually expired twice.  The only reason I am still playing is because my wife likes EQ2.  So, I am skeptical about this combat revamp from the beginning.  But I do see that the sky is not falling afterall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morvik wrote:<BR> <DIV>All in all I really don't like my class anymore I'm glad I made a dirge while waiting for the expansion so I don't have to quit the game I'm just sad to see my main character go down the tubes after one patch I really hope they fix this...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry I read this wrong.   Glad that you are not leaving.</P> <P> </P> <P>Though I will disagree with others.  We still have a role in the game.  And that is as a MT or an OT.  I've done both since the update and have had a blast.<BR></P>

[Belce]

Well, I just made about 40% exp solo in 2 hours to finish making 41 with my guardian just inside Ferrott.  Even did a couple of very weak heroic encounters as well solo.  Had some help with some quests I completed doing it, killed both sides of the beach once and then went and killed lizards and bitter blooms for the rest.  The heroics were groups of 4 lizards, 3 with 2 down arrows, one with a down arrow, I think that would have been called solo challenge content before.  Plus I also used the time to work my crushing skill from 160 to over 180 as well. :smileyhappy:

[Landiin]

<span><blockquote><hr>Greystaff wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <blockquote> <hr> Morvik wrote: <div>. I got in a group last night with a illisionist and 2 rangers and they we're nice enough to let me in (they we're guildies)because my class is clearly not needed anymore they told me to sit on the side and watch while they took out lvl 49 ^^^ heroic mobs. Root nuke shoot with arrows mez root repeat, I didn't even get to pull anything the illisionist did it all himself. It depresses me to not be able to tank anymore I need 2 healers now if i'm going to be the tank. I can't even harvest in lavastorm anymore because it usually ends up like this i harvest 1 or 2 nodes oh there's a mining node i might get something neat out of that, then i get a little too close to one of those nasty goblins and they almost kill me either running away or trying to get to the docks fast as I can. All in all I really don't like my class anymore <hr> </div></blockquote> <p>Well since Landin and Raahl are far to busy to actually read what Morvik is trying to say before they jump on the "everything is fine" SOE fanboi wagon I will cut right to the chase and try to make it a bit easier for them to understand the problem.</p> <p>The guardian class is no longer needed. DO you understand? Other classes can now do our job do it better and offer much more to a group then. "hey if you change the way you play I can still tank for you". Why bother with a guardian when your pet can out tank him AND you can get a REAL contributing member to join your group?</p> <p>Yes you can still play your guardian (some) question is. Who will want you too when you what you bring to the table is not worth having?</p> </blockquote><p>Message Edited by Greystaff on <span class="date_text">09-17-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:35 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span>lol I am no SOE fanboi What do you mean guard are no longer needed? I log on and get 5 to 6 tells to come tank. I have ZERO issues with agro, ZERO issues with getting pawned( granted I dont' try to solo heroics ) I have been in 2, 3 and 6 people groups with zero issues and even soloed some entry quest. Sorry don't feed me your line of BS of guards suck, because they don't. Yes we are weaker then before LU13 but we are needed. I tank just fine and have no trouble getting group invites, even random invites from out of guild. So I just don't see your point other then you havn't learned your new class yet. <div></div>

[Morv]

<DIV>well woo [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing hoo i hate my char now he sucks hes not a tank he's a nancy little girl. If he gets hit he does mad fast i hate playing him don't even want to try i'm actually now concidering quiting they really [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed this [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(drunk and angry)</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morvik wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(drunk and angry)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Never post while drunk or angry.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are so angry with the game and cannot stand it anymore.  Go find a game that does not do this to you.  It is after all only a game and if you are no longer having fun then why stay?</DIV>

[Greysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landiin wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR></SPAN>lol I am no SOE fanboi<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>says the SOE fanboi,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>from the looks of your sig you are wearing full ebon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gee must be nice. </DIV> <DIV>The class has been dorked up to come here and say it has not,  is kidding yourself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have fun...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Landiin]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Greystaff wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Landiin wrote:<span></span>lol I am no SOE fanboi <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>says the SOE fanboi,</div> <div> </div> <div>from the looks of your sig you are wearing full ebon?</div> <div> </div> <div>Gee must be nice. </div> <div>The class has been dorked up to come here and say it has not,  is kidding yourself.</div> <div> </div> <div>Have fun...</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote> Yea riiight im full ebon.. If you will take the time to learn you class then you will see that. 1. Yes you are weaker, but can still tank fine. 2. Yes agro is harder to keep, but you can keep it. Agro should of never been so easy in the 1st place. 3. It takes SKILL to be a guard now, You can't  just get a reactive cast on you any more and set back and watch tv while the rest of the team kills the mobe. You have to do something now WOW.. I was [Removed for Content] at 1st too but after I took the time to read through my skills, test them, learn what they did and how to aply them I havn't had many issues. I like you and the rest of the fighters can't LOCK down a mob while every one goes full out on it. No one can or should be able to do that. As far as getting beat down, yea I agree its not fun going from god to commener but /shrug we all can't be god.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Landiin on <span class=date_text>09-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:09 PM</span>

[RafaelSmith]

All the feedback posts and reactions to the combat revamp has really suprised me.  I read post after post about how our DPS got nerfed, how we cant hold aggro, how we need multiple healers.  I am not uber by any stretch of the imagination but I havent noticed any of these issues..in fact most things work better, most fights are quicker.. Can take on level 54-55^^^ heroics with only Fury as healer.  Its not easy like it used to be but its fun.  Have yet to have a group member die due to aggro issues.   Encounters like Menegerie that used to be slooow for my group now takes about 1/2 the time it used too. I was guilty of pre-judging the revamp and I think alot of people are guilty of judging it now without REALLY taking the time to relearn their playstyle and that of their groups.  Over the past week my group and I have learned alot and how we tackle things is totally different than it used to be.  Aggro control on my part is alot more involved and challenging but its not impossible like many have claimed. There are issues.... 1) Our mitigation seems about 10% lower on avg than it should be.  Avoidance seems about right...I wanna get hit alot for alittle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 2) resists blow...resists buffs dont seem to provide the avantage the Devs intended 3) inturrupts/stuns, etc need to be looked at. 4) If Shields are gonna list a shield factor value then it should mean something. =P 5) In a fantasy game as a level 50 I shouldnt get owned by level 28 Epics...I dont care that they are epics..there has to be a point where all the hard work of leveling up gains you some sense of being godlike to foes that you once feared. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 6) As a Warrior I should have more HP than any other fighter my level.  Thats a pretty simple concept i think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[eq2mik]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RafaelSmith wrote:<BR><BR>1) Our mitigation seems about 10% lower on avg than it should be.  Avoidance seems about right...I wanna get hit alot for alittle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>2) resists blow...resists buffs dont seem to provide the avantage the Devs intended<BR>3) inturrupts/stuns, etc need to be looked at. <BR>4) If Shields are gonna list a shield factor value then it should mean something. =P<BR>5) In a fantasy game as a level 50 I shouldnt get owned by level 28 Epics...I dont care that they are epics..there has to be a point where all the hard work of leveling up gains you some sense of being godlike to foes that you once feared. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>6) As a Warrior I should have more HP than any other fighter my level.  Thats a pretty simple concept i think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>That sums it up pretty well for me.  I'm a 32 guardian with no adept 3's (was waiting until after LU13 to buy any) but everything adept I, pristine feyiron armor with lambent imbued chest and sanguine imbued legs, imbued sword and shield with 350 factor (whatever that means, but it's higher than most, so I went with it).  The best I can get my resists to is average 700-800 unless I focus on 1 type and ignore the others.  My hp is 2K and mitigation is about 27%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Result: I can solo with ease in offensive stance but I can't duel worth a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] in either stance.</DIV> <DIV>I dueled a paly my same level, he had full plate but no imbued armor at all but had imbued weapon and some good resist jewelry,  The guy kept me stunned so I couldn't hit him.  I died with zero power left while he still had half power and 30% hp.  An assassin the same level then killed the same paladin immediately afterward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's something  wrong there.  I should be still standing with equal hp while a paladin is down to zero mana and having trouble getting a weapon to slash through my heavy armor.  I had expected a fairly even fight, this was nowhere near even.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What good is a defensive stance when the buffs that root me in place don't protect me while I'm stunned and just stand there like an idiot and can't hit anybody beause my resists are too low?  What good can I possibly be as a MT if I don't have enough hp to last against a single palaldin?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think paladin heals should take more mana, but more than that, I  think guardian skills are still taking too much power, especially the Slam line.  I also seriously question whether or not paladins suffer the same slow factor for wearing full plate. I understand why our power drain was removed but there needs to be a corresponding stressor on paladin mana to compensate for their heals in PVP, else guardian power consumption needs further reduction, damage output needs upped,  or some really high WIS guardian-only gear needs dumped on the market just to make PVP more entertaining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>