Can someone from sony please explain?

[JNewby]

<DIV>how is it that sony can justify making bruisers not only as good of tnaks as guards.. but better tanks? with more avoidance health an inate deflection skill.... 360 deflection... more dps self heals.. and same mit that being that the cap is 80%???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am kinda looking for an answer form oorguard or some such thing.. cause I am very curious</DIV>

[Venomo]

<P>dont bother looking, we've asked this question 100 times here and on the beta boards, the only answer i can come up with is this :</P> <P> </P> <P>Moorgaard plays a bruiser</P>

[Airog]

<DIV>I doubt that is the reason.</DIV>

[Sasaki Koji]

<P>Well i guess when somone who decides what changes get made plays the game themselves, things could appear to be altered for a ...selfish... cause. but id have to agree, its cause Moorguard plays a bruiser and he wants them to be ON TOP! but HEY. it looks like theyre switcing from guard MT to bruiser MT. Mabey in another 10 months during combat revamp 2, mage pets will be the only viable choice for raid mt, and Coercers will be MA? *ponder* at the same time all fighter avoidance becomes 0% base everything! I can hear the devs laughing now as they torment Norath with their insane coding practices, learned from a black book with a pentagram on the cover, chanting in unison as... WOA... goin a bit LOCO there lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> *snaps back into reality*</P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sasaki Kojiro wrote:<BR> <P>Well i guess when somone who decides what changes get made plays the game themselves, things could appear to be altered for a ...selfish... cause. but id have to agree, its cause Moorguard plays a bruiser and he wants them to be ON TOP! but HEY. it looks like theyre switcing from guard MT to bruiser MT. Mabey in another 10 months during combat revamp 2, mage pets will be the only viable choice for raid mt, and Coercers will be MA? *ponder* at the same time all fighter avoidance becomes 0% base everything! I can hear the devs laughing now as they torment Norath with their insane coding practices, learned from a black book with a pentagram on the cover, chanting in unison as... WOA... goin a bit LOCO there lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> *snaps back into reality*</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeab but ath that isnt right mostly cause they are more fun class have mroe fun spells more dps and are more flexible</P> <P> </P>

[BetaMaster]

<P>Yea... When I made my class I went with what worked for me in eq1, A Warrior.  The Warrior was the big bad tank class brute, stupid with no spells (until disciplines took off) but i didn't care that I hardly had any abilities... I had taunt and that was good enough for me.</P> <P>When people chose their class in eq2 they pretty much knew what they were getting themselves into... Guardian (think about the name) yea I think it sounds like a big dumb wall of a being.... Ogre Guardian, I think that about sums up how stupid a character can get, no GO! big guardian man, stand in front of that mob!</P> <P>I know people who still confuse monk as being a scout class cause they have always portrayed a dps class... why go MT with them?  I'm sure it's been asked many a time, just needed to ask it again in my own little way.</P> <P> </P> <P>I always tell people to examine the classes COMPLETELY before they make their first character.  They chose based on what a class is.  If one class complains because they no longer like that role and wish to be the role of what is currently a guardian.... (i'm sorry, but re-roll as a guardian plz... alts are fun).</P> <P> </P> <P>~Abomidable of Mithaniel Marr</P>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Venomous wrote:<BR> <P>dont bother looking, we've asked this question 100 times here and on the beta boards, the only answer i can come up with is this :</P> <P> </P> <P>Moorgaard plays a bruiser</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>priceless

[SniperKitty]

<P>**REMOVED FLAME BAIT**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:02 PM</span>

[TorqeD]

<P>You know if they plan on making bruisers MTs now fine with me. But if thats the case give us some utility. Maybe Better dps? As it is. We are 2nd grade tanks with 4th grade dps and no utility. *golf clap* Well see though. Maybe they might realize after a ton of guardians quit that they made a mistake. Anyways these next few days should prove interesting.</P>

[Bhuhdiy]

<DIV>Not quite so simple SniperKitty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before DoF, we have reached a balance.  There are plenty of tanks (Warrior class), and brawlers have arguably the best DPS in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now take all those brawlers and make them the best tanks - completely throws off the balance of classes - way too many tanks now.</DIV>

[Sasaki Koji]

ive always thought warriors were stupid Mascionists <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Cept Berzerkers were more on the sadist side... Now brawlers, especially Bruisers, can be the slightly wiser and beefier, yet still stupid, Mascionists! <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At least you guys can still tank, my SK's gonna have to stay on the Sadist side till some disease creature comes along...</DIV>

[Airog]

HAHAHAHA!! Guardians shouldn't be alowed to post on the GUARDIAN forums.... That's a good one sniperkitty, I see you are back at spewing filth at people once again. I srive to understand why you post? Just to be a thorn in peoples sides? Saying the same thing over and over, seems like you just like calling Guardians names, because they always take your monks tank spot on raids, oh, that's right, you don't raid with a fighter, heck, you probably don't raid at all...

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhuhdiy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Before DoF, we have reached a balance.  There are plenty of tanks (Warrior class), and brawlers have arguably the best DPS in the game. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>ROFL.  Yeah, brawlers outdamaging scouts/mages was soooo balanced.</P> <P>Just. Quit. Typing.<BR></P>

[blueduckie]

At this point dramatizing stuff is a waste of time. We can still tank and if we need imporvements we should approach them and see if we can push for a few things. No reason to expect huge advantages this is the way developers went. Can talk about how much it sucks or make the best of it. Hopefully maybe find some increases to make us a little more useful outside of just tanking. Would like some more mitigation buffs personally a single one with a timer like commanding pressence was before. Last 44 seconds recast 60 seconds. However other fighters being able to tank a little better isnt to bad. I wish the could have kept a little more order to it than it looks like they did but it is possible they still have alot of tweaking to do. You should know soe we are still beta testin the changes even now and will need some fine tuning most likely. Over all i think scouts mages doing a greater amount of dps is great for the game i just hope guardians arnt useless on raids with how they are atm. If protect spells work well awesome. Am all for testing and finding out for myself as far have only seen numbers that arnt very reliable. IMO just play and see how things are for awhile before complaining about them. Devs i dont are trying to [Removed for Content] a class although i think they are border lining it with guardians from what ive seen i still think will be able to tank fine just lose our tanking advantage with out gaining anything. Need to get that fixxed so shall see!

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<P>Grumpy's Fun Facts during DoF Downtime #413:</P> <P>---------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>Let's see... that's 5800 posts... over the past 300 days...</P> <P>...carry the one... divide by... inverse tangent of...</P> <P>Got it.</P> <P>That's an average of 19.333 (repeating of course) posts per day.  Or, to put it another way, one post for <STRONG><EM>every single waking hour</EM> </STRONG>since last November when this game went live.</P> <P>I smell a macro bot.</P> <P>/shrug</P>

[Gaige]

<DIV>I post way more than 19x a day usually.  Especially when guardians post.  Continously.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, what else am I supposed to do at work?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should do the math for Sinkatze's post count.</DIV>

[dpsman]

Really nothing to worry about, Plate classes will always be the Tanks, misguided dimwits such as Gaige who for some reason think Monks are tanks, go the the Monk forums even the monks there disagree with his flawed thinking. Why are monks trolling the Guardians forums anyway?

[Airog]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dpsman wrote:<BR>Really nothing to worry about, Plate classes will always be the Tanks, misguided dimwits such as Gaige who for some reason think Monks are tanks, go the the Monk forums even the monks there disagree with his flawed thinking. Why are monks trolling the Guardians forums anyway? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I jump all over Monks calling Guardians names, can't help but do the same to my fellow Guards. From what I have seen Gaige does not seem dimwitted, and as I have stated MANY times to Sniperkitty calling people names only subtracts form intelligent and helpful conversation and debate.</DIV>

[dpsman]

<P>Read this thread in the Monk Forums...nice work Gaige and you thought Monks were tanks in eq1? that is what you read? Did you even play eq1?...good grief!</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=20926" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=20926</A></P>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

I totally agree, Airoguy.  There's a wide chasm between a dimwit and a motor-mouth.

[Airog]

Aye, motor-mouth I see him as (well as far as I define the word), however, haha, motor-mouth aint bad in all situations. So I guess that one I would let slip... =P

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dpsman wrote:<BR>misguided dimwits such as Gaige who for some reason think Monks are tanks <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah, like SOE.  Since they are the ones who've said repeatedly that monks are tanks.  Why are you paying "misguided dimwits" every month anyway.  I mean those guys come up with the craziest ideas!!  Monks are tanks, sheesh.~</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dpsman wrote:<BR> <P>Read this thread in the Monk Forums...nice work Gaige and you thought Monks were tanks in eq1? that is what you read? Did you even play eq1?...good grief!</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=20926" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=20926</A><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And?</P> <P>NO I didn't play EQ1.</P> <P>But I read their forums all the time and have many friends who did.</P> <P>FD pullers?  Sure, it was an unintended game mechanic that the devs let them keep after their mitigation got nerfed horribly when WARRIORS complained about how good some high end monks could tank.</P> <P>DPS?  Yeah, I know they were some of the best DPS in EQ1.  I'm very aware of that, which is why we have so many monks in this game who think they are/should be DPS.  </P> <P>All I want to know is, if monks weren't/couldn't tank in EQ1, then why was there ever the huge mitigation nerf?  I assume you wouldn't need to nerf a class' mitigation if they weren't/couldn't tanking, right?</P> <P>Besides, SOE relented on the nerf a few months ago, and gave EQ1 monks their mitigation bonus back.</P> <P><A href="http://www.chaoticbalance.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3667&sid=b0900130d6c4b35bcd04f814d8ba8fc4" target=_blank>http://www.chaoticbalance.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3667&sid=b0900130d6c4b35bcd04f814d8ba8fc4</A> <P>So yeah.  I never said EQ1 monks could tank like warriors, but back before warriors cried the good ones could tank as well as an SK/Pally.  /shrug</P><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 AM</span>

[Moontayle]

<P>Good lord.</P> <P>Listen, despite how many people took a crack at Beta, the game still needs tweaking. There comes a point when a couple of thousand people don't give you the numbers you need. Especially when that's divided by 24. At that point, when it's a hair's bredth from being pretty much balanced, you push it to the populace. Then, you have a couple hundred thousand people looking at the changes and disparity can be sought out that much quicker.</P> <P>So, we're not done yet, but we're close.</P>

[Ardnahoy]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sasaki Kojiro wrote:<BR>ive always thought warriors were stupid <STRONG>Mascionists</STRONG> <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Cept Berzerkers were more on the sadist side... Now brawlers, especially Bruisers, can be the slightly wiser and beefier, yet still stupid, <STRONG>Mascionists</STRONG>! <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At least you guys can still tank, my SK's gonna have to stay on the Sadist side till some disease creature comes along...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>"Mascionists"....?</P> <P>Couldn't find that in the dictionary.</P> <P>Closest I could find was <STRONG>Mar<IMG height=22 alt="" src="http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif" width=4>cion·ite </STRONG>- named after a pontic merchant and heretic in Rome - refers to a Christian heresy of the second and third centuries <FONT size=-1>A.D.</FONT> that rejected the Old Testament and denied the incarnation of God in Jesus as a human.</P> <P>Seems that this would more closely fit an SK than a guardian.</P> <P>Or you seriously need to get a spell checker.</P>

[Bhuhdiy]

<P>Just wanted to make a point that I haven't seen made yet.</P> <P>To date, brawlers have NOT made good <U>raiding</U> tanks in EQ2.  As a result, players have made warriors to fill the tanking roles.  By suddenly "balancing" brawlers, making them tanks, it's gonna have one of 2 effects:</P> <OL> <LI>Warriors become undesireable (if in fact brawlers can tank better).</LI> <LI>Brawlers become undesireable (if they don't tank better, and their dps is nerfed).</LI></OL> <P>Either way, something has gotta give - you don't just suddenly double the number of available tanks, and expect there to be room (or need) for all those tanks in your average raiding guild.</P><p>Message Edited by Bhuhdiy on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:29 AM</span>

[Airog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhuhdiy wrote:<BR> <P>Just wanted to make a point that I haven't seen made yet.</P> <P>To date, brawlers have NOT made good <U>raiding</U> tanks in EQ2.  As a result, players have made warriors to fill the tanking roles.  By suddenly "balancing" brawlers, making them tanks, it's gonna have one of 2 effects:</P> <OL> <LI>Warriors become undesireable (if in fact brawlers can tank better).</LI> <LI>Brawlers become undesireable (if they don't tank better, and their dps is nerfed).</LI></OL> <P>Either way, something has gotta give - you don't just suddenly double the number of available tanks, and expect there to be room (or need) for all those tanks in your average raiding guild.</P> <P>Message Edited by Bhuhdiy on <SPAN class=date_text>09-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:29 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Point has been beaten to death by me and several others, not even explored by some, and disregarded by others...

[Gaige]

<DIV>Fighters being overpowered DPS and tanking wise for 10 months has led to an improportionate amount probably.  So I'm sure some will quit their fighters (and maybe the game) and explore other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most likely a lot of the fighters who rolled zerkers/brawlers for the DPS, for example.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sucks, but things have to happen to get balance and an enjoyable, challenging game I suppose.</DIV>

[zabor]

whats wrong with the concept of encounters designed for a specific tank, like darathar is for guardians and mobs like in motm for monks.

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div></div>If they did it wrong (and I can't judge whether they did or not), they will lose alot of guardian players. Not classes, I guess alot of accounts. Sure, there are some who picked guardian because they are the "most uber super-duper tank". They will be disappointed either way. I won't miss those. But, and that is my fear, if they equalled tanking without boosting Guardians in other areas, the class is screwed and many, even the serious Guards, will be disappointed - I know I will be. Which will lead to many cancelled accounts. Prepare for server merges <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sir_Halbarad on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<BR> Which will lead to many cancelled accounts. Prepare for server merges <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ah yes.  Which MMO patch day is complete without the doom and gloom end of the game post.  Thanks for posting it, I knew this thread was missing something.<BR></DIV>

[Airog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <DIV>Fighters being overpowered DPS and tanking wise for 10 months has led to an improportionate amount probably.  So I'm sure some will quit their fighters (and maybe the game) and explore other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most likely a lot of the fighters who rolled zerkers/brawlers for the DPS, for example.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sucks, but things have to happen to get balance and an enjoyable, challenging game I suppose.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You are half right Gaige (in my humble opinion), re-vamp needed to happen, but they could have kept the DPS'ing fighters at a reasonable DPS and not even tried to make them raid tanks. Rather let them keep the ability to Group tank very well. As well as add some more utility to make them very useful in group and raid situations. It is really all round-about...

[Moontayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Ah yes.  Which MMO patch day is complete without the doom and gloom end of the game post.  Thanks for posting it, I knew this thread was missing something.<BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>You ruined your game, you'll not ruin ours!<BR>

[Airog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moontayle wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Ah yes.  Which MMO patch day is complete without the doom and gloom end of the game post.  Thanks for posting it, I knew this thread was missing something.<BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>You ruined your game, you'll not ruin ours!<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Gaige ruined what game? Where? When? Maybe he was calling for it (in you opinion) to be ruined, but he did not ruin it himself.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Airoguy wrote:<BR>Rather let them keep the ability to Group tank very well. As well as add some more utility to make them very useful in group and raid situations. It is really all round-about... <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Would you feel the same about your statement if it was about the guardian class?</P> <P>Why is it that you feel its okay for the guardian to excel in all areas of the game (soloing, grouping, raiding) and the other fighters only one or two?</P> <P>I *still* have never been answered by any guardian why RAID TANK role is only good for them and RAID BUFF or RAID DAMAGE role is what other fighters should settle for?</P> <P>I just do not understand.</P> <P>Its like you guys honestly believe that if you did not choose a guardian, you shouldn't raid as a fighter.  Unless you want to play scout or priest.  I mean paladins are rez [Removed for Content] and the rest of us were trying to be scouts.</P> <P>/shrug</P> <P>I guess I'll never understand the mentality of players who want something for themselves at the cost of other players.<BR></P>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> Sir_Halbarad wrote: <div></div>Which will lead to many cancelled accounts. Prepare for server merges <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <hr> </blockquote>Ah yes.  Which MMO patch day is complete without the doom and gloom end of the game post.  Thanks for posting it, I knew this thread was missing something.</div><hr></blockquote> Which is again a prime example of replying to a part of a post, not the whole <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I didn't say it happens tomorrow, I didn't say it happens in a week. I didn't give any time frame if you read it again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Server population is low already. If this combat revamp doesn't work - and again (for Gaige in CAPS) I CAN NOT JUDGE YET WHETHER IT DOES OR NOT - they will lose alot of players. Wondering what part you will rip out this time <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /shrug</span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> Moontayle wrote: <P></P> <P>You ruined your game, you'll not ruin ours!<BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have no idea [Removed for Content] you are talking about, but I'll guess.</P> <P>1) If by "your game" you mean the monk class, I prefer it in DoF (soon to be live) over yesterday's monk.  Thanks.</P> <P>2) As for ruining any game, I'm a player, not a developer, so I really can't ruin anything.  /shrug</P> <P>So, can you at least make *some* sense next time you take the effort to log in, reply and post.  Just a little bit.  These cryptic sentences are sort of freaking me out.</P>

[Airog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Airoguy wrote:<BR>Rather let them keep the ability to Group tank very well. As well as add some more utility to make them very useful in group and raid situations. It is really all round-about... <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Would you feel the same about your statement if it was about the guardian class?</P> <P>Why is it that you feel its okay for the guardian to excel in all areas of the game (soloing, grouping, raiding) and the other fighters only one or two?</P> <P>I *still* have never been answered by any guardian why RAID TANK role is only good for them and RAID BUFF or RAID DAMAGE role is what other fighters should settle for?</P> <P>I just do not understand.</P> <P>Its like you guys honestly believe that if you did not choose a guardian, you shouldn't raid as a fighter.  Unless you want to play scout or priest.  I mean paladins are rez [Removed for Content] and the rest of us were trying to be scouts.</P> <P>/shrug</P> <P>I guess I'll never understand the mentality of players who want something for themselves at the cost of other players.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Was talking purely for the number of fighters in the game because of the way it has been for the past 11 months. And if the shoe were on the other foot? If since the begining Guards were better at DPS and group tanking but worse at raid tanking? Would I feel the same way? Yes.

[Gaige]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>I didn't say it happens tomorrow, I didn't say it happens in a week. I didn't give any time frame if you read it again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ah well, in that case then I suppose you are psychic.  I doubt EQ2 or any game for that matter, will last forever.

[Airog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<BR> Which will lead to many cancelled accounts. Prepare for server merges <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ah yes.  Which MMO patch day is complete without the doom and gloom end of the game post.  Thanks for posting it, I knew this thread was missing something.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Which is again a prime example of replying to a part of a post, not the whole <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>I didn't say it happens tomorrow, I didn't say it happens in a week. I didn't give any time frame if you read it again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Server population is low already. If this combat revamp doesn't work - and again (for Gaige in CAPS) I CAN NOT JUDGE YET WHETHER IT DOES OR NOT - they will lose alot of players. <BR><BR>Wondering what part you will rip out this time <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>/shrug<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Haha... </P> <P>"I didn't say it happens tomorrow, I didn't say it happens in a week. I didn't give any time frame if you read it again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />"</P> <P>That part. =P</P>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<blockquote> <hr> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<span>I didn't say it happens tomorrow, I didn't say it happens in a week. I didn't give any time frame if you read it again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> <hr> </blockquote>Ah well, in that case then I suppose you are psychic.  I doubt EQ2 or any game for that matter, will last forever. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Thanks for the laugh, Monkey <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Moontayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Moontayle wrote: <P></P> <P>You ruined your game, you'll not ruin ours!<BR></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have no idea [Removed for Content] you are talking about, but I'll guess.</P> <P>1) If by "your game" you mean the monk class, I prefer it in DoF (soon to be live) over yesterday's monk.  Thanks.</P> <P>2) As for ruining any game, I'm a player, not a developer, so I really can't ruin anything.  /shrug</P> <P>So, can you at least make *some* sense next time you take the effort to log in, reply and post.  Just a little bit.  These cryptic sentences are sort of freaking me out.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>'Twas a joke <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>When NPCs attacked you in EQ1 they would sometimes yell out, "You ruined your lands, you'll not ruin ours!"<BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lighten up people, it's not the end of the world by any means :p</DIV>

[Sasaki Koji]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moontayle wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Moontayle wrote: <P></P> <P>You ruined your game, you'll not ruin ours!<BR></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have no idea [Removed for Content] you are talking about, but I'll guess.</P> <P>1) If by "your game" you mean the monk class, I prefer it in DoF (soon to be live) over yesterday's monk.  Thanks.</P> <P>2) As for ruining any game, I'm a player, not a developer, so I really can't ruin anything.  /shrug</P> <P>So, can you at least make *some* sense next time you take the effort to log in, reply and post.  Just a little bit.  These cryptic sentences are sort of freaking me out.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>'Twas a joke <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>When NPCs attacked you in EQ1 they would sometimes yell out, "You ruined your lands, you'll not ruin ours!"<BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lighten up people, it's not the end of the world by any means :p</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Gaige has little-no sense of humor i guess <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Gaige]

Ah I never played EQ1 ;p

[Banwar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR>I guess I'll never understand the mentality of players who want something for themselves at the cost of other players. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Isn't this what you've been shooting for this whole time?</DIV>

[blueduckie]

<P>Gaige if no game will last forever would love to see that said about eqlive. It is doing just fine constantly new raid content constant player base doubt that will change for a considerable amount of time as long as new raid content is constantly put out. </P> <P>The thing with guardian tanking is i dont think we have to be the only raid tank but we also arnt current. It doesnt mean some fighters dont need boosts in tanking department but they dont need to tank the same. Does FoH make a guardian tank every single encounter? Obviously not because theyve let you tank. Well we let sk paladins tank all the time. We have no brawlers or zerkers in our guild because we just havnt gotten a good one in guild before. Point is we let all classes tank no matter if it is a little inferior. The lowering of fighter dps was obviously needed. There is no doubt there. The need to make the gap in tanking not as wide from bruiser to guardian ok. To be the same while dps / utility all stays the same is not cool.</P> <P>Guardian should get more single buffs for there "utility" if it is going to stay this way. We lost our only real dps skill (haste) Our main mit buff non stance was nerfed. Our stance unique mit buff was given to all. Which i dont give a dam how well you brace yourself. When your in leather armor your not gonna mitigate the same as a plate tank bracing themselves. That should be fixxed. Not asking to own all but would like a fair amount of mitigation over non plate classes. A bruiser can not only hit within 200 mit of guardian can surpass them by a significant amount with there self only mit buff. Thats just unreal. Seriously dont care how braced that bruiser is. He isnt gonna mitigate a hit as well as someone in plate. It is just ridiculous IMO that we arnt even the highest possible mit tanks either now. Taking our hp was bad enough now our mit is nothing special. What do we honestly have to seperate us. Our group buffs? So we are a bard? Come on now get real we are fighters and the most defensive line of the fighters and we arnt being shown it at all.</P>

[ravenhe]

<DIV>Gaige i honestly feel you are lame lazy and hypocrite (if thats well spelled).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are the most annoying person i ever saw writting in this forums, why dont you admit you made a mistake choosing your monk cause at lvl 50 it wasnt what you expected, and just because you are so incredibly lazy to reroll you just whyne, cry and elaborate a whole daily drama in this forum to see if they pity you enough and do something that you dont have to reroll.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians are supposed to be uber meatshields we are just cause we are a TANK with DEFENSE SKILLS and nothing else. No other tank have that description and i really wonder if is it really so incredibly hard for your small mind to accept that TANK + DEF oriented SKILLS implies that it will hold the beating better than a TANK with OFFENSIVE SKILLS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know I did accept what i gave in exchange for my defense skills but i got what i wanted, if you want the benefit of our subclass why dont you shut up and reroll a guardian and stop envying us, if you dont want the dps then reroll and stop your whynning.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW I dont agree we are the best group tank, we can be as well you can it depends mainly on the configuration of the group so stop trying to find argument to justify your incredible stupidity for not reading the skill list before you chosed your monk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ravenhe]

<DIV>These forums need a revamp sorry for double post</DIV><p>Message Edited by ravenhelm on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 AM</span>

[Banwar]

<FONT size=2>5862 posts and they're all whines about guardians. Impressive, isn't it?</FONT>

[flesh]

On Mistmoore there was about 1 guardian per 4 people before the revamp based on my experiences.  That doesn't even include the plethora of Paladins, Zerks, and SKs.  Now that Monks and Bruisers are supposed to be tanks, and no reason to ever have multiple tanks in the group, I fear we'll be seeing a lot of this in ooc: Level 52 monk LFG! Bruiser LFG! plz invite lvl 54 pally~ *sigh* Frail - 50 Warlock - Mistmoore Meerdra - 50 Guardian - Mistmoore <div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<span><blockquote><hr>Banwar wrote:<font size="2">5862 posts and they're all whines about guardians. Impressive, isn't it?</font><hr></blockquote> Some of his concerns are/were justified in my opinion... Warrior's Buff stacking trivialized content. Guardian's had the best of both worlds, avoidance and mitigation wise... BUT Guardians were always the fighters giving up on everything to tank better (compared to other fighters) AND Other Fighters always had what SOE promised them: "to tank for an experience group". It never was "a Raid Group" or "tank the hardest mobs"... it was: "experience group"... Brawlers and Crusaders and Zerkers were better in Exp Groups.. and from what I read, they still are... while Guardians get nothing... Gaige reached what he thinks is balance I guess....</span><div></div>

[Dedi]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote: <p>/shrug</p> <p>I guess I'll never understand the mentality of players who want something for themselves at the cost of other players.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> What about what your  lobbying has done to  brawlers who were quite happy being a dps/utility hybrid tank?  Not trying to flame, but most if not all monks in my guild hate the changes.  I know alot of them haven't personally tried them, but they were very happy where they were.</span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR><FONT size=2>5862 posts and they're all whines about guardians. Impressive, isn't it?</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Care to prove that statement by showing that I've never posted in another forum and/or about anything unrelated to your class?  I thought not.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> Dedite wrote: <P></P> <P><SPAN>What about what your  lobbying has done to  brawlers who were quite happy being a dps/utility hybrid tank?  Not trying to flame, but most if not all monks in my guild hate the changes.  I know alot of them haven't personally tried them, but they were very happy where they were.</SPAN><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, there were plenty of monks/bruisers in beta, including pro-DPS ones.  I imagine they had ample time to /feedback and post and make their cases heard.</P> <P>I don't work for SOE, I speak my opinion.  On these forums and through /feedback.  I do not understand why everyone thinks I can get these changes made single-handedly when I'm just a player.</P> <P>All the avenues I use for putting my opinion out there are available to all players.</P><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:06 PM</span>

[Lareal]

Gaige:            In EQLive we (monks) were FD splitting, and pulling YEARS before the mitigation nerf. It was not a case of the devs letting us keep it after ther nerf. I'm glad you read forums and talked to folks about what Monks did in EQlive, but you should refrain from commenting on EQlive monk-dom, because you only show your ignorance. The "I didn't play an EQLive monk, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night" defense isn't working.            Pre-Revamp we did have valid Solo, Group, Raid roles, you just chose to to learn them apparently. We soloed arguably better than any of the fighter classes(or at least as well). I've never had a problem getting a group. We could fill multiple roles -Tank, DPS, Stifle. On raids we added a LOT: Stifles!!! We did this better than anyone, now it's nerfed. DPS(And no I had no problems with the concept of lowering our DPS slightly below Scouts FROM BEHIND THE MOB). And if you've never saved a MT with a well-timed Heal, then either your healer are amazing, or you don't know how to play your class. In short, Some of us did the same thing we did in EQLive: We learned our skills, and learned to use them to help the group/raid/etc. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lareal wrote:<BR>In short, Some of us did the same thing we did in EQLive: We learned our skills, and learned to use them to help the group/raid/etc.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Learn my skills?  Pfft.  I don't have time to be bothered with that.</P> <P>Oh, and fyi, we still have our stifle.  In fact we have better stuns/stifles/interrupts and knockdowns now. </P> <P>/shrug</P> <P>Oh and I'm glad you were an uber FD pulling monk in EQ1.  I suppose your statement invalidates the numerous others I've read/heard.</P> <P>Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't sure who the EQ1 monk authority was, but I'm relieved to know it was you, and I can rest easy now.<BR></P>

[Dedi]

You should be a politician Gage, you dodge questions like a pro. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dedite wrote:<BR>You should be a politician Gage, you dodge questions like a pro.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I did answer you, actually.<BR>

[Krooner]

<P>All right come on people.  Lets just give Gaige what he wants.  Lets let the monks be a super DPS self healing stealth tank with group invis, feign death, group res and raid evac.  I mean hes not asking Tooooo much is he ?</P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Warbird1 wrote:<BR> <P>All right come on people.  Lets just give Gaige what he wants.  Lets let the monks be a super DPS self healing stealth tank with group invis, feign death, group res and raid evac.  I mean hes not asking Tooooo much is he ?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You forgot that I want the dev run speed.  Don't forget that.<BR>

[Shizzirri]

<P>I think we need a support group for those guardians are so content with the belief that they will never, ever, ever tank again because of one patch...</P> <P>To them I can do nothing but laugh.</P> <P>/join chat channel whambulance or crybabies anonymous or wouldyoulikecheesewithyourwhine.</P> <P>If you seriously believe your useless outside of tanking might I suggest you smack yourself upside the head repeatedly with a giant 2x4, then again I guess us tanks weren't ever the brightest bunch...</P> <P>It could of been worse</P>

[ravenhe]

<DIV>Well maybe we should vote for all the devs to please gaige demands at least we could use our forums to talk about our class concerns instead of replying to his nonsense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we should also vote for the banning of some people from certain boards. It is so absurd that most of the threads here end in this just all of us trying to make Gaige understand what are the differences between a monk and a guardian and that there are people happy with monks the way they are.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ravenhelm wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well maybe we should vote for all the devs to please gaige demands at least we could use our forums to talk about our class concerns instead of replying to his nonsense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we should also vote for the banning of some people from certain boards. It is so absurd that most of the threads here end in this just all of us trying to make Gaige understand what are the differences between a monk and a guardian and that there are people happy with monks the way they are. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Hypocritical, is it not to complain about me posting on your forum, and then cite my name not once, but twice in your post.  LoL.  At least you guys make me chuckle.<BR>

[Dedi]

Funny you should mention hypocrisy Gage.  My earlier post was pointing out just that about what you said, yet you insist you answered my question.   I never said you worked for SOE, I said you were lobying for a change, which you have admitted  many times. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dedite wrote:<BR>Funny you should mention hypocrisy Gage.  My earlier post was pointing out just that about what you said, yet you insist you answered my question.   I never said you worked for SOE, I said you were lobying for a change, which you have admitted  many times.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, I was lobbying for some <EM>changes.</EM>  But numerous other monks were lobbying for more DPS, or no changes, etc etc.</P> <P>In the end SOE makes the changes, not me.</P> <P>Other players, including monks who do not share my opinions can post and /feedback just like I can.</P> <P>I even said that when I answered your question the first time.</P>

[Krooner]

No whining here <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=92282" target=_blank><SPAN>ravenhelm</SPAN></A> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I plan on sticking with my guardian and playing through the changes.  I plan to " Improvize Adapt and Overcome."</DIV> <DIV>If have to to spend some time relearning my class so be it.  As for being the MT.  I have no problems there.  I can MT or ST or MA doesnt matter to me.  I dont have to have my ego stroked.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly I am kindo of curious about something.  If you look at the SOE "vision" concerning fighters.  Monks are supose to have the highest HP but the lowest power pool.  Guardians are suppose to be balaced power and HP and SK's lowest HP and highest Power.  I wonder how thats going to affect monks with changes to manna regen and the nerfing of regen items.  Seems like if the MT is a monk you would have to have some form of breeze for any long fight.</DIV>

[Banwar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR><FONT size=2>5862 posts and they're all whines about guardians. Impressive, isn't it?</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Care to prove that statement by showing that I've never posted in another forum and/or about anything unrelated to your class?  I thought not.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Gaige on <SPAN class=date_text>09-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:06 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yes Gayge, you have never posted anything anywhere else, ever. If I wanted to waste that much time on you I would prove that something like 3/4ths of your posts are on the guardian forum.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR>I would prove that something like 3/4ths of your posts are on the guardian forum.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You couldn't prove that, because it isn't true.  The majority of my posts are in the monk forum.  But I'm sure you knew that.<BR>

[Banwar]

Couldn't tell that by looking at the last 10 pages, check for yourself.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR>Couldn't tell that by looking at the last 10 pages, check for yourself.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>/shrug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I doubt I posted 4425 times in the last 10 pages, which is roughly 3/4s of my post count.</DIV>

[Banwar]

103 of your last 170 posts are in the guardian forum, that's over 60% so I was a little off by 3/4ths. If you think that's insignifigant you're lying to yourself.

[ravenhe]

<DIV>Warbird dont get me wrong i love my guardian iand i believe many people are overreacting to the changes. IMO we didnt lose much and it looks like the nerfes we got are related to the new combat mechanics that affected all classes and not just our own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We even got our anchor, entrech line modified into a mitigation buff so i believe our class has been more defined and we will definitely be sought after for any mob that especializes on heat dmg for our extra mitigation against it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>I have been MA on plenty of raid and honestly I dont mind at all ... in some way i find even more enjoyable not to be worrying about holding aggro or praying for the healers to keep up. Guardians have a place and probably we wont be just looked after now for being able to withstand a lot of damage but possible for our ability to protect our groupmates and enhance their defense skills, we definitely have the buffs to enhance any other fighter subclass willing to tank and when things get ugly we can even try to absorb some of the damage dealt to make it easier on the healers. In some way i would love to see a monk needing a guardian buffs and intervene spells to tank a raid.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The buff stacking made us uber but it kind of disguised some of our potential we still can and will for sure be needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will definitely keep playing my tank with less entusiasm though not cause of the revamp but because im enjoying the different game experience with a troubador im lvling up, the revamp will bring a new life and possible a more sincere evaluation of how powerfull a given class should be compared to a NPC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR>103 of your last 170 posts are in the guardian forum, that's over 60% so I was a little off by 3/4ths. If you think that's insignifigant you're lying to yourself.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You implied that my entire post count, some 5800+ were posted in this forum about guardians.  That's not true, so I called you on it.  Now you're changing your story, which is fine.</P> <P>As long as you know you're wrong <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[Banwar]

<DIV>I didn't change my story, I simply showed you an example. Typical of you to try and twist the conversation when you're backed into a corner.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR> <DIV>I didn't change my story, I simply showed you an example. Typical of you to try and twist the conversation when you're backed into a corner.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>LoL backed into a corner?  Like I care about my post count, or where I post.  I obviously don't, since I post in this forum, much to the dismay of some guardians.</P> <P>/shrug</P> <P>Inferring that all 5800+ of my posts were made in this forum, and then changing it to 3/4's which is about 4500, and then changing it totally and showing that 100+ of my last 150ish posts were in here, certainly doesn't paint the picture of backing me into anything.</P> <P>Although it <EM>does</EM> prove you changed your story, a few times.</P> <P>But that's okay, I post here because I love you guys.  Awwww <3<BR></P>

[Krooner]

<P>Al right everyone.  This thread has provided a sufficient amount of distraction from the pre-release bordom blues.  II hear the servers are up so its GAME ON.</P> <P>Its time to end all the petty squabbles and get back to enjoying the game.  Im stuck here at work for another 2 hours and Im sure there will be at least a few more posts to read.  </P> <DIV>See you around the Realms.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mauldred </DIV> <DIV>50 Guardian 50 Provisioner</DIV> <DIV>48 Dirge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Thanous]

<div></div>My question now is what makes a guardian unique?  What can we do that makes us special?  Do we have anything available to us that makes Guardian a class worth investing time in? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Thanous on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:59 PM</span>

[dparker7]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR> <DIV>I didn't change my story, I simply showed you an example. Typical of you to try and twist the conversation when you're backed into a corner.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>LoL backed into a corner?  Like I care about my post count, or where I post.  I obviously don't, since I post in this forum, much to the dismay of some guardians.</P> <P>/shrug</P> <P>Inferring that all 5800+ of my posts were made in this forum, and then changing it to 3/4's which is about 4500, and then changing it totally and showing that 100+ of my last 150ish posts were in here, certainly doesn't paint the picture of backing me into anything.</P> <P>Although it <EM>does</EM> prove you changed your story, a few times.</P> <P>But that's okay, I post here because I love you guys.  Awwww <3<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Gaige, hyperbole - look it up.<BR>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<P>And while we're researching post histories, you might want to get that shoulder looked at.  :smileywink:  /shrug</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/search?submitted=true&type=message&q=&logic=AND&page_size=50&fuzzy=false&prefix=false&refine=false&advanced=true&body_all=shrug&author=gaige&days=-1&sort_by=-views" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/search?submitted=true&type=message&q=&logic=AND&page_size=50&fuzzy=false&prefix=false&refine=false&advanced=true&body_all=shrug&author=gaige&days=-1&sort_by=-views</A></P>

[Gaige]

<P>I post.  /shrug</P> <P>Some guys on this forum post more.  Promise and Sinkatze come to mind.</P>

[Bumtek]

Grant it, I could have over 5900 posts as well, but I have a life where I can't spend all my time at work or at home roaming the boards looking to see if anyone replyed to any forums.  I could prob type up a few things about how guardians got the shaft in the end but I don't want to fuel Gaige's mind of more things he can twist around and turn them back on the guardian class.  If only you had a 50 guardian prior to the combat change and actually knew what the changes were (not from reading on the forums or from friends) but from actually playing them, then you might understand a bit more of what the guardian community is actualy talking about.

[Lareal]

Gaige,       Don't think I ever claimed to be an UBER FD splitting, pulling Monk. I said that Monks could do that for years before the mitigation nerf, and that you keep getting your info on EQlive wrong because you didn't play. I'm not saying that you must have played EQlive to be a Good eq2 monk, just that to know about EQlive it helps to have actually played it instead of trolling forums on it. You keep making statements that show you think all of the Monk changes happened in a few months of EQlive, when Actually things happened over 5-6 years. Just like trolling these Guard forums won't make you a Guard. Nothing wrong with gathering info, but don't try to tell folks you know better than them if you've never done it.   And yes, we do have more stuns now, but we lost interrupts, and stifle is cut from 20 sec(Averaged 15-17 actually) to 11 sec max. Don't see how that is a better stifle. It does not land any more often, actually seems a little less often to me.   Oh, btw if you really think my EQ live info is wrong, try asking on Monkly-Business. You do know what that is right? Lareal Gaige's Favorite Monk     <div></div>

[Nibbl]

<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=2> <P>All I know is my necromancers pet with the def stance is a better tank then my guardian with his def stance. I’m not advocating a pet nerf (I like my pet), but the guardian should be slightly better. Balanced! For who? LU#13 was a big nerf for guardians.</P> <P> </P></FONT></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Nibblar on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:38 PM</span>

[Drtydog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nibblar wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=2> <P>All I know is my necromancers pet with the def stance is a better tank then my guardian with his def stance. I’m not advocating a pet nerf (I like my pet), but the guardian should be slightly better. Balanced! For who? LU#13 was a big nerf for guardians.</P> <P> </P></FONT></FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Nibblar on <SPAN class=date_text>09-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:38 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I can testify to this.  Last night our guild's level 50 necro had his pet tanking for a grp of 5..we were killing white and yellow ^^^ in DOF ....LOL .  I have to agree with those saying they hit the guard too hard.  I mean IMO the guardian should be the best pure tank in the game and they so aren't right now.  If folks would think about it and quit being so selfish they would realize that we need an uber tank.  We don't need a bunch of mediocre tanks for the sake of keeping everyone happy.  I hope SOE looks at this because, to be honest pulling aggro off of every tank so far sucks....... Every class should have a role and the guardian's role should be tanking...and IMO they should tank better than any other fighter class..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>