How do you guards/zerkers like this idea...?

[TheSummoned]

<DIV>Alright, monks have mend, bruisers have heal, paladins have wards/heals, SKs have lifetaps...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys have 0. What I suggest is to put some healing effects on some of your skills to make up for that difference, similar to what the dirge has. Have a CA or 2 on a 20 sec recast that revitalizes you for HPs for about 100-150 HP (or maybe even more). It isn't much, but when I play my dirge it more than often saved me from dying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now we only need a matching description...</DIV>

[Danter]

<P>When I chose a guardian, I knew what I was getting myself into.  I gave up all utility and a lot of DPS to be able to have the best tanking abilities in the game.</P> <P>I don't want FD/heals/invis/regen/haste/wards/counterattacks, etc.  I want the most health, taunts, and defense/mitigation out of every fighter class.</P> <P>It's that simple.</P><p>Message Edited by Danterus on <span class=date_text>09-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:36 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<P>Berserkers get HP regeneration abilities after the combat revamp goes through. With Master I's its possible to get up around 130 HP regen, thats while in combat as well and its group.</P> <P>To be honest the only time i see myself using this is in PvP, other then that, probally never.</P> <P>As a Berserker who is looking forward to the changes, im happy with how they have balanced out the Berserker class. We took alot of big hits in reguards to losing all our HP buffs and Haste buffs some taunts got adjusted which is no biggie really because we all basically knew this was going to happen sooner or later, they are no more, but we have been given alot of aoe attacks back in replace of those making us more Berserker oreinted. We also offer the group a Berserk buff increasing there DPS and attack speed.</P> <P>To top it all off, we are becoming better tanks out of this revamp, plus we are suited towards dealing out some nice damage potential still. For those who used to concentrate on 2 handers and 170% haste, i think there the ones who are going to be sworely dissapointed, but all in all, Berserkers doing 400+ dps with a 2 hander was a bit radical.</P> <P>All in all i think at the moment most Berserker are happy about the up coming changes.</P> <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>09-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:22 AM</span>

[Rakooliuss]

Well I played a warrior in EQ1 so when I started as a guardian I knew I wasnt going to get anything special. I'd just be the meat shield. But since they are trying to make each tank class equal, I really would like to see a utility of some type. <div></div>

[AwesomeSau]

<P>Well, if they're going to force every other fighter into the MT slot, than i'd like to see some fun utilies for us. In all honesty, I chose a guardian because SOE made it crystal clear that they were going to be the best choice for tanks. If i'm not going to tank ALL of the time, than I at least want to have something fun to do in order to compensate. </P> <P>I honestly don't care what it is, except the last thing I want to do is take a boring backseat by buffing other MTs or giving them mit. However, with the DPS cuts, it looks like all we're ever going to have is tanking or mitigation utility. So, i'm praying we're still the best MTs out there.</P>

[Corv]

<span><blockquote><hr>TheSummoned wrote:<div>Alright, monks have mend, bruisers have heal, paladins have wards/heals, SKs have lifetaps...</div> <div> </div> <div>You guys have 0. What I suggest is to put some healing effects on some of your skills to make up for that difference, similar to what the dirge has. Have a CA or 2 on a 20 sec recast that revitalizes you for HPs for about 100-150 HP (or maybe even more). It isn't much, but when I play my dirge it more than often saved me from dying.</div> <div> </div> <div>Now we only need a matching description...</div><hr></blockquote></span> It remains to be seen how the revamp will shake out.  Hopefully Guardians will still have an edge in all situations.  Not necessarily a large one, but an edge.  They are the specialist tanking class after all, and it wouldn't make much sense for them to *ever* be beaten in their own bailiwick.  Other classes may come close enough to be interchangeable in select situations so that they're a good choice for *some* fights, *not* all.  (i.e. Monks might be virtually as good as Guardians in one type of fight, Pally's in another, but no tank could be substituted for a guardian in *all* situations.)  Of course, this hinges on the notion that EQ2 is meant to make sense...   If Guardians are to be reduced to a specialist class with *no* advantage in their specialty, then it's going to take a lot more than some dinky 150 point heal to make Guardian's a class that isn't horrendously broken.  100-150 HP wouldn't even let a guardian take one more hit!   Such an ability would be useless except for any taunt it might generate.  I still think that the key to making all tank classes feel useful isn't trying to carefully balance them against each other so all have a fighting chance at one or two MT slots in a raid.  After all, only one or two can win, and the rest get to feel like second-class citizens while doing sub-par DPS.   How many monks or zerkers envy a guardian who *isn't* tanking after all?  A far better way to go about things would be to start making raid encounters that require a lot more tanks.   Mobs that hit the top 6 players on their hate-list.  Encounters that are exclusively linked so that no two mobs will attack the same target no matter how much that target is taunting them.  Mobs that target only healers and casters so protection spells finally have a use.  etc..  It's EQ2's bland and boring 1-2 MT raid design that's the problem, not class inbalance.  <div></div>

[Sixmai]

What really disappointed me when reading our beta spells, was the absolutely lack of novelty. Bruiser got alot of new, exciting new abilities, and we got one : a reactive taunt. The defense of the Guardian should have come from some skills rather that buffs, instead of static superior avoidance and mitigation compared to other plate class, we should have get some abilities like these ones, emphasying our defensive tactics : _a 3 second automatic parry : if skilled or lucky, you can avoid the big hit. _a toggleable buff to parry / defense, stifling us and turning autoattack off : you win avoidance, but loose aggro. _more stuns / interrupts. Etc, some abilities which require us to do more than juste buffing up, rooting ourselves and recasting our taunt when timers are up.

[Airog]

Leave healing to the healers... On raids HP regen they doesn't do much of anything anyways. And that is the only situation that I care to excel over other fighters. Is on raids. I don't want *any* utility (save of course the smallest amount of DPS out of all classes). I want to be raid main tank, but you know what, that isn't up to me, it is up to SOE, and *IF* they do make it so all fighters can raid tank, I hope we get better utility for raids, not soloing or groups. <p>Message Edited by Airoguy on <span class=date_text>09-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Airoguy wrote:<BR> <FONT color=#ffff00>I don't want *any* utility (save of course the smallest amount of DPS out of all classes). I want to be raid main tank</FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So classic.</P> <P>First its a want, then it becomes the reason why guardians must be better.</P> <P>I crack up everytime I see this.</P> <P>"Um, we have to be the best tanks, we have no utility and do almost no DPS".  Ask for some utility and DPS then, like every other class has.  "What?  Hell no, are you crazy, I don't want utility or DPS!!  If I got that I wouldn't have a leg to stand on about being best tank, sheesh.  I was bluffing!"</P> <P>The point is that is the worst arguement I've ever heard from the guardians.  Its so silly to even use it, /rofl.<BR></P>

[Airog]

W*T*F Gaige? You take part of my post out of context from the rest? Do you see where I say, if we don't get to be the best raid tanks then yes, I do want utility? I didn't say, no, no, don't give us utility period so that I can whine about needing to be a better tank, I said, I want to be a better tank, and because of that have less utility (or almost none). Not have less utility so I can be a better tank. I re-read my post several times, and I just don't see how you could have twisted it the way you did. Please take another look at this and my last post, and make a comment.

[ShinigamiD]

It's typical Gaige, he'll only answer bits and pieces of a post and twist it so he can crow /shrug.

[AwesomeSau]

<DIV>Gaige, SOE made Guardians out to be the best tanks during launch. And hell, why else would they have chosen the name "Guardians?" In any case, the reason most people people picked guardians was because of how they were advertised. People wanted what they saw. A class that had virtually no utility, that had an intense amount of mitigation, and could tank most everything in the game better than everyone else. It's not an ego trip. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's what was advertised, and people that liked what they saw, made a guardian. It's time to step off of your high horse and think reasonably. I personally know a lot of monks that are upset because they were made out to be DPS, and now they're losing dps in order to become better tanks. Are those monks on a power trip too? No, they want to remain effective in the areas that they enjoy, hence why they chose the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all reality, your posts are a nuisance to the guardian forum.</DIV>

[Shizzirri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AwesomeSauce wrote:<BR> <DIV>Gaige, SOE made Guardians out to be the best tanks during launch. And hell, why else would they have chosen the name "Guardians?" In any case, the reason most people people picked guardians was because of how they were advertised. People wanted what they saw. A class that had virtually no utility, that had an intense amount of mitigation, and could tank most everything in the game better than everyone else. It's not an ego trip. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's what was advertised, and people that liked what they saw, made a guardian. It's time to step off of your high horse and think reasonably. I personally know a lot of monks that are upset because they were made out to be DPS, and now they're losing dps in order to become better tanks. Are those monks on a power trip too? No, they want to remain effective in the areas that they enjoy, hence why they chose the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all reality, your posts are a nuisance to the guardian forum.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>So what I'm reading is you people don't want utility buffs because you just want to tank, so that means no HP buffs, defense buffs, or shield buffs. You just want mitigation right?  If that's the case they might as well rename our class useless blockhead meatshields because that's all we'll be, that sounds too EQ1 like to me, and I sure as heck don't want to be a pure meat shield blockhead.  Think of it this way if you we're one, you'd be even more useless when your not tanking, I mean you'd have no buffs to give other classes, no shield to save the cleric from a potential wipe, and since our dp's is getting nerfed you won't be much use there, but look on the bright side at least you'll keep the bench nice and warm until that one guardian who does get to tank randomly linkdeads.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Under the current system at least we have some use in raids, if you haven't figured it out yet I'd suggest rerolling a toon with dps and no utility at all, like a ranger, don't forget to cast pathfinding every half hour though.</DIV>

[AwesomeSau]

<P>Bah, we have no hardcore utility is what I meant. We're not known for our minor group buffs. (Which will be even more minor after the revamp.)</P> <P>My point is that we don't have any exotic utilities that define our class. We tank, and we keep aggro off of our party. And should they take a hit or two, we can absorb some of that damage which is still encompassed in the tanking part. </P> <P>Way to get too technical on me. =P</P><p>Message Edited by AwesomeSauce on <span class=date_text>09-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:11 PM</span>

[Sasaki Koji]

hmmm what is a 'Utillity' you all??

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sixmains wrote:<BR><BR>What really disappointed me when reading our beta spells, was the absolutely lack of novelty. Bruiser got alot of new, exciting new abilities, and we got one : a reactive taunt.<BR><BR>The defense of the Guardian should have come from some skills rather that buffs, instead of static superior avoidance and mitigation compared to other plate class, we should have get some abilities like these ones, emphasying our defensive tactics :<BR><BR>_a 3 second automatic parry : if skilled or lucky, you can avoid the big hit.<BR>_a toggleable buff to parry / defense, stifling us and turning autoattack off : you win avoidance, but loose aggro.<BR>_more stuns / interrupts.<BR><BR>Etc, some abilities which require us to do more than juste buffing up, rooting ourselves and recasting our taunt when timers are up.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>eh reactive taunt is not new... we have had it forver... now its jsut nerfed being it take s a concentration...

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AwesomeSauce wrote:<BR> <DIV>Gaige, SOE made Guardians out to be the best tanks during launch. And hell, why else would they have chosen the name "Guardians?" In any case, the reason most people people picked guardians was because of how they were advertised. People wanted what they saw. A class that had virtually no utility, that had an intense amount of mitigation, and could tank most everything in the game better than everyone else. It's not an ego trip. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's what was advertised, and people that liked what they saw, made a guardian. It's time to step off of your high horse and think reasonably. I personally know a lot of monks that are upset because they were made out to be DPS, and now they're losing dps in order to become better tanks. Are those monks on a power trip too? No, they want to remain effective in the areas that they enjoy, hence why they chose the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all reality, your posts are a nuisance to the guardian forum.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah that is what I have been trying to say to him and SOE basically.. this jsut sux that we take a class that is bland so we can be the best tanks.. and now we are just left with a bland class

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shizzirri wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AwesomeSauce wrote:<BR> <DIV>Gaige, SOE made Guardians out to be the best tanks during launch. And hell, why else would they have chosen the name "Guardians?" In any case, the reason most people people picked guardians was because of how they were advertised. People wanted what they saw. A class that had virtually no utility, that had an intense amount of mitigation, and could tank most everything in the game better than everyone else. It's not an ego trip. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's what was advertised, and people that liked what they saw, made a guardian. It's time to step off of your high horse and think reasonably. I personally know a lot of monks that are upset because they were made out to be DPS, and now they're losing dps in order to become better tanks. Are those monks on a power trip too? No, they want to remain effective in the areas that they enjoy, hence why they chose the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all reality, your posts are a nuisance to the guardian forum.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>So what I'm reading is you people don't want utility buffs because you just want to tank, so that means no HP buffs, defense buffs, or shield buffs. You just want mitigation right?  If that's the case they might as well rename our class useless blockhead meatshields because that's all we'll be, that sounds too EQ1 like to me, and I sure as heck don't want to be a pure meat shield blockhead.  Think of it this way if you we're one, you'd be even more useless when your not tanking, I mean you'd have no buffs to give other classes, no shield to save the cleric from a potential wipe, and since our dp's is getting nerfed you won't be much use there, but look on the bright side at least you'll keep the bench nice and warm until that one guardian who does get to tank randomly linkdeads.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Under the current system at least we have some use in raids, if you haven't figured it out yet I'd suggest rerolling a toon with dps and no utility at all, like a ranger, don't forget to cast pathfinding every half hour though.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>eh so 1 500 hp buff is gonna keep us on riads haha... and a def buff sorry but yea doesnt do to much good on people who arent tanking... and yeh I coudl care less who int he gorup got it... since only the MT needs it... kinda sorta nice in aoe situations but I hardly think 500 or so life is gonna save to many people... anyhow I dont see what makes us not bench warmers now when we arent tnaking....