I'm an ex EQ1 warrior and

[Banwar]

<DIV>if these combat tweaks make me feel like I'm playing it again, I'm gone. Just a word of warning, as I'm sure I'm not the only one that came here because of the warrior flaws there. Make soloing any more tedious, make aggro any more unpredictable, we're threw. You're already about to spread out our skills to the other tank classes (ala sk/paladin eq1), take it too far and *poof*.</DIV>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Banwar wrote:<div>if these combat tweaks make me feel like I'm playing it again, I'm gone. Just a word of warning, as I'm sure I'm not the only one that came here because of the warrior flaws there. Make soloing any more tedious, make aggro any more unpredictable, we're threw. You're already about to spread out our skills to the other tank classes (ala sk/paladin eq1), take it too far and *poof*.</div><hr></blockquote> Aye, pretty much how I feel.  The fact that Warrior in EQ2 can do other things that are noticable and useful is why I play this game and find it more enjoyable than EQ1.  That DPS tier tree puts as at the bottom  in terms of melee classes...thats where we were in EQ1 and it sucked...we had zero utility, zero DPS which made us nothing more than charity cases when it came to grouping.  At least in EQ1 we had the "top raid tank" spot to fall back on and make us feel important....and in this game they wanna take that away from us as well. Ive like the fact that in EQ2 it really doesnt matter who tanks in groups...but the fact that if I wasnt the tank I actually felt as if I contributed to the overall group effort. These changes are happening because of Raids and Raids only...again another EQ1 pattern of design that did not set well with me. Ive said it before and Ill keep saying...the ARcehtype concept of equality WILL NOT WORK for Tanking like it does for DPS, Healing and Utitlity.</span><div></div>

[blueduckie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RafaelSmith wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR> <DIV>if these combat tweaks make me feel like I'm playing it again, I'm gone. Just a word of warning, as I'm sure I'm not the only one that came here because of the warrior flaws there. Make soloing any more tedious, make aggro any more unpredictable, we're threw. You're already about to spread out our skills to the other tank classes (ala sk/paladin eq1), take it too far and *poof*.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Aye, pretty much how I feel.  The fact that Warrior in EQ2 can do other things that are noticable and useful is why I play this game and find it more enjoyable than EQ1.  That DPS tier tree puts as at the bottom  in terms of melee classes...thats where we were in EQ1 and it sucked...we had zero utility, zero DPS which made us nothing more than charity cases when it came to grouping.  At least in EQ1 we had the "top raid tank" spot to fall back on and make us feel important....and in this game they wanna take that away from us as well.<BR><BR>Ive like the fact that in EQ2 it really doesnt matter who tanks in groups...but the fact that if I wasnt the tank I actually felt as if I contributed to the overall group effort. These changes are happening because of Raids and Raids only...again another EQ1 pattern of design that did not set well with me.<BR><BR>Ive said it before and Ill keep saying...the ARcehtype concept of equality WILL NOT WORK for Tanking like it does for DPS, Healing and Utitlity.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Did you quit at Kunark? I played EQ1 up to the very current boss mob was raid leader in Assent on maelin Starpyre 2nd guild to kill overlrod matamuram and if you think warriors had nothing you obviously didnt play much at all. On the road of expansions i was out dpsing 90% of the raid once i got my Blade of War with good aa's. Once i had good dual wield weapons from ikkinz in GoD / PoTime i was out dpsing every class cept very decked out rogues. Even now on current mob warriors with epic 2.0 / good weapon are parsing as high as any other class except rogues. You obviously dont know EQ1 as well as you would claim.</P> <P>The fact that you say aggro was unpredicatable what is so predicatable about it now in eq2. Aggro is so messed up atm it is crazy. You kill a add and rest of encounter mem blurs? Ya that is predicable. [Removed for Content] are you crying about they arnt gonna screw the class that bad. I hope they make aggro cleaner from things like that not happening unless is intended on a encounter. You are gonna be based off a skill system. What was so annoying in eq1 was the fact you could pop ae taunt pop defensive disc and go afk til enrage and tank the mob and procs hold all the aggro. Kick didnt do much using shield was pointless after they added making offhand attacks unripostable by aa. You cant do that in eq2 so as far as a raiding warrior from eq1 to eq2 this is nothing alike and never will be with the skill system implemented. It is considerably smoother role atm and if you think that will change your crazy. If you are crying saying if we are no longer the best I am quitting then fine but our tanking vs physical dmg will always be the best it is just a matter of how the make the being special against certain types thing work out on always being the best. However comparing it to eq1 warriors is just a lame and uninformed statment.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by blueduckie on <span class=date_text>07-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:06 PM</span>

[Banwar]

<DIV>blueballs, nobody cares what you could do in EQ1 with a BoW and raid gear. You were happy because with that gear you could do what 95% of other warriors couldn't in normal gear. I didn't even bother to read the rest of your post because you're obviously one of those virtual meathead beefcake fanbois that love to praise yourself and try to tell everyone else they're wrong. I bet you even said we were whining or crying and misconstrued our words arguing a point we didn't even make, so typical of your kind. Here's an idea, stay the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] out of my thread.</DIV> <p>Message Edited by Banwar on <span class=date_text>07-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 PM</span>

[blueduckie]

<DIV>And your another one of those people who thinks people care if you quit do it already quit "threatening" to. You are crying and throwing a hissy fit when you say that crap. Your comparison to eq1 tho is just that utter crap. The point of posting how thing were in eq1 is to refute the rhetoric that there is any similarity. In this our taunts actually taunt in eq1 your taunt failed 75% of the time. Aggro is not unpredicatable at all. If your complaint and fear is for grouping that is surprising because grouping is never going to be hard. If it is about soloing i could understand fear from our current stage who knows how they will change it but it prolly wont be to bad. Possibly not be able to kill heroics as easy but is no way to tell. The fact that you can get good gear and skills with out raiding in this as opposed to eq1 you could not. You can harvest rares you can get lucky with fabled off of any mob. You can currently buy all but splitpaw fabled items. Alot is different. People have killed Drakathor in full ebon and normal jewelry no fabled. So to say 95% of people dont have those chances, to relate it to eq1 is correct to relate it in eq2 is as untrue. It is what my post is about how eq2 is completely different in pretty much every aspect. So your crying to me about eq1 no matter what stage i was in can understand the differences of the 2 and if you cant your just not trying very hard.</DIV>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>blueduckie wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> RafaelSmith wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> Banwar wrote: <div>if these combat tweaks make me feel like I'm playing it again, I'm gone. Just a word of warning, as I'm sure I'm not the only one that came here because of the warrior flaws there. Make soloing any more tedious, make aggro any more unpredictable, we're threw. You're already about to spread out our skills to the other tank classes (ala sk/paladin eq1), take it too far and *poof*.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Aye, pretty much how I feel.  The fact that Warrior in EQ2 can do other things that are noticable and useful is why I play this game and find it more enjoyable than EQ1.  That DPS tier tree puts as at the bottom  in terms of melee classes...thats where we were in EQ1 and it sucked...we had zero utility, zero DPS which made us nothing more than charity cases when it came to grouping.  At least in EQ1 we had the "top raid tank" spot to fall back on and make us feel important....and in this game they wanna take that away from us as well.Ive like the fact that in EQ2 it really doesnt matter who tanks in groups...but the fact that if I wasnt the tank I actually felt as if I contributed to the overall group effort. These changes are happening because of Raids and Raids only...again another EQ1 pattern of design that did not set well with me.Ive said it before and Ill keep saying...the ARcehtype concept of equality WILL NOT WORK for Tanking like it does for DPS, Healing and Utitlity.</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Did you quit at Kunark? I played EQ1 up to the very current boss mob was raid leader in Assent on maelin Starpyre 2nd guild to kill overlrod matamuram and if you think warriors had nothing you obviously didnt play much at all. On the road of expansions i was out dpsing 90% of the raid once i got my Blade of War with good aa's. Once i had good dual wield weapons from ikkinz in GoD / PoTime i was out dpsing every class cept very decked out rogues. Even now on current mob warriors with epic 2.0 / good weapon are parsing as high as any other class except rogues. You obviously dont know EQ1 as well as you would claim.</p> <p>The fact that you say aggro was unpredicatable what is so predicatable about it now in eq2. Aggro is so messed up atm it is crazy. You kill a add and rest of encounter mem blurs? Ya that is predicable. [Removed for Content] are you crying about they arnt gonna screw the class that bad. I hope they make aggro cleaner from things like that not happening unless is intended on a encounter. You are gonna be based off a skill system. What was so annoying in eq1 was the fact you could pop ae taunt pop defensive disc and go afk til enrage and tank the mob and procs hold all the aggro. Kick didnt do much using shield was pointless after they added making offhand attacks unripostable by aa. You cant do that in eq2 so as far as a raiding warrior from eq1 to eq2 this is nothing alike and never will be with the skill system implemented. It is considerably smoother role atm and if you think that will change your crazy. If you are crying saying if we are no longer the best I am quitting then fine but our tanking vs physical dmg will always be the best it is just a matter of how the make the being special against certain types thing work out on always being the best. However comparing it to eq1 warriors is just a lame and uninformed statment.</p> <div></div> <p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by blueduckie on <span class="date_text">07-24-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:06 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Go [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] yourself.   Only a very very small few players experienced EQ1 the way you did.</span><div></div>

[Moontayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR> <DIV>if these combat tweaks make me feel like I'm playing it again, I'm gone. Just a word of warning, as I'm sure I'm not the only one that came here because of the warrior flaws there. Make soloing any more tedious, make aggro any more unpredictable, we're threw. You're already about to spread out our skills to the other tank classes (ala sk/paladin eq1), take it too far and *poof*.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So what you're saying is that if they take away everything but Kick and Taunt, add in Disciplines, and give Priests Complete Heal that you'll quit?

[Banwar]

<DIV>blueballs, read what I origionally typed several times, make sure you understand it, then edit your posts. You're making up arguements based on what you think you read, not what I typed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moontayle, I'm saying if they make the game unenjoyable to be a guardian, much like it was to be a warrior in eq1, that I'm gone. I came here because I wanted to play a pure melee tank class that didn't have the limitations I was used to.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Banwar on <span class=date_text>07-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:13 AM</span>

[Nazo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moontayle wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banwar wrote:<BR> <DIV>if these combat tweaks make me feel like I'm playing it again, I'm gone. Just a word of warning, as I'm sure I'm not the only one that came here because of the warrior flaws there. Make soloing any more tedious, make aggro any more unpredictable, we're threw. You're already about to spread out our skills to the other tank classes (ala sk/paladin eq1), take it too far and *poof*.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So what you're saying is that if they take away everything but Kick and Taunt, add in Disciplines, and give Priests Complete Heal that you'll quit?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>FINE WITH ME as long as they leave the Defensive   :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

[Tro]

<P>Just one (Possible) correction Blueduckie.. EQ1 Taunt failed more like 40% of the time not 75 (IMO).  From my experience it did not fail that much. It did however [Removed for Content] me off that it failed even that much being my taunt skill was maxed.  </P> <P>And for the subject of the post, In EQ1, they actually went along way to fix the warrior class.. the lvl 66-70 Discs were a big help (Well most anyway). I was not in a High end raiding guild but I did have some decent aggro control via weapon procs and aa's. I loved the aa concept.  With Weapon Affinity, Slippery attachs coupled with the Defensive aa's, I was pretty happy with the warrior class.. I wish they could implement some kind of aa system with EQ2. Some of the lvl 50 folks get bored and atleast in EQ1 when you maxed your level you could further enhance your character with the aa's.. <P>I suspect aa's will never happen in EQ2 unfortunately.. The arguement that they are trying to make EQ2 like EQ1 I am sure would come up. <P>Anyway, I dont feel the upcoming changes will be that detremental to the Guardians.. I hope not anyway.. I do like the idea of being the class of choice for tanking raid mobs.. that is afterall, one of the main reasons why I rolled a Guardian.. <P>  <P>  <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class=date_text>07-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:49 AM</span>

[blueduckie]

<P>Nah they wont screw Guardians Trook unless your really scared of change. It seems its main goal is on the raiding end guilds go oh the only guardian on is logging we cant raid now. Instead it will probably be ok so such and such other fighter class will MT may be a little harder but they can take him it may not make a big difference no telling but the classes wont come off broken most likely. Your very right trook on the aa's and the way discs helped. They also added discs sometime before omens of war for lvl 70 cap adding the incite line that made a big difference to give us a initial aggro taunt to use. Your point still stands ban you came here to say "i will quit if this game isnt perfect for me." Your comparison to making it about broken eq1 class when the eq1 class wasnt even broken. The whole eq1 game was tedious. No matter what you did quests blew expect epic 1.0's where fun 2.0's were laughable at questing they were all long and tedious alot of quests in this seem considerably more fun from heritage quests to normal quests and even prismatic quest. The whole raid side was based on ch rot and how well geared your warriors were. This game has much more clear cut roles for people the subclass tree for fighters is big debate on sucking or not sucking but for the other 3 subclasses has been very nicely set up. Again why the hell would come to forums and post ima quit if i they do something that they cant possibly do with out removing all of our skills but 3.(single taunt kick shield bash). Lighten up a little think about it before you post. I know what you posted do you know what i posted? My whole post was about how this is no where near the lines of eq1 style. We are more based on our buffs then gear in this. Your refute of almost no one got to do what i do that is bs. I wasnt in alltime uber guild was a bunch of scrubs starting when potime was beign farmed with most in weak low end velious gear low low gear and moved to 2nd in game to kill top mob. I went slumming in eq1 and know both ends of the game so could careless your opinion about it. If you cant see you can fish up rares and great gear / skills in this on your own in compared to not being able to with out raiding in eq1 then you are oblivious. This has a considerable better design for the casual gamer. It also made no class where it can afk and do its full potential as opposed to eq1. That is my point the skill system is the whole difference and that wont be going away by any means. There revamping mobs also just so you know. So the spreading our stuff around line by MG they are weakening the mobs as well just something to think about.</P> <P>Also Trook it took them awhile to implement aa's into eq1 i have heard they have alread start talk about them but wouldnt expect them til the next expansion. There are tons of people not lvl 50 yet so if they needed aa's to adding more lvls and more aa's in next expansion would just put people further behind.</P>

[Tro]

<DIV>Yes the Taunt/Bazu Bellow combo were invaluable especially with a bard puller <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully the upcoming changes will be good for all.. We will see..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, Paragraphs are your friend lol.. Reading your previous post was a bit painful <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Later!</DIV> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class=date_text>07-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:48 AM</span>

[Raahl]

<DIV>We unfortunatly don't have enough information yet on how big of a nerf this will be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess we will find out patch day.</DIV>

[Banwar]

<DIV>blueballs, you're the first person I've put on forum ignore. Congrats. Your reading miscomprehension amazes me.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Banwar on <span class=date_text>07-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:04 PM</span>