Pally or zeker or monk

[lostsandman]

<DIV>I know this question has been asked many times here but i am asking it again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>On my server a well know/respected raid guild uses guard/pally or guard/monk in their mt grp for most of their raids.</DIV> <DIV>They hardly use a zeker with guard in mt grp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guild with 3 other others guild have started raiding and i have been using zeker with myself (guard). my mt grp is pretty constant</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>Guard, zeker, Warden, templar, troub, mystic/conj</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>This set up has worked very well on many raids we did but we have had our issues</DIV> <DIV>Some people have asked me why don't i use a pally or monk instead of the zeker. Assumption being raid guild knows better....</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>I am no expert, and i decide on that grp based on the post from this forum.</DIV> <DIV>Is there any reason to use a pally or monk over a zeker?</DIV> <DIV>Ok pally can heal but it can be doen out side og grp</DIV> <DIV>Unwavering Faith: This is like a shied but zekers have vehemence<BR>Devout Sacrament: but the hate goes to pally so no need to use on mt<BR>Prayer of Conviction: wis and power? is the power increase that good?<BR>Benediction: this does ac? and this does not stack with out fortified stance? i am told the ac buff is better than out stance<BR>Crusade: str and st, but zekr can buff more hp than a pally</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>So guys can any one please explain why a pally over zeker? Am i mising some thig about a pally? or monk</DIV> <DIV><BR>Many thanks</DIV>

[Ashtu]

Ah man, and I thought this was gonna be asking for advice on what class to play after we get nerfed to hell...

[SmakenDah]

<font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2">Can't crusaders (pallies/SKs) dump some of their HPs and mitigation on to a target? While the HPs might not be as nice, perhaps the mitigation makes up the difference? I'm not sure if berserkers get that sort of ability too. </font><div></div>

[Pa]

<DIV>Any type of haste is adding fuel to the fire of the current combat system, ripostes are just simply deadly and something I try to avoid at all costs on raids. I dont use haste items on raids, troub doesnt sing haste in my group etc.. last thing I want is to go berserk on a raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use a paladin usually, SK as backup, and monk as my last option.</DIV>

[Korpo]

<span><blockquote><hr>lostsandman wrote:<div></div> <div>I am no expert, and i decide on that grp based on the post from this forum.</div> <div>Is there any reason to use a pally or monk over a zeker?</div> <div> Ok pally can heal but it can be doen out side og grp <font color="#ff0000">We can also ward, which is group only. My app4 ward is 558 and grants 12 str to the target when it poofs. It's on a 15 second recast, but it sucks up so much power I can't spam it.</font> </div> <div>Unwavering Faith: This is like a shied but zekers have vehemence <font color="#ff0000">The pally version (at app4) increases parry of the target by 2 and mitigation of the target by 102. It also </font><font color="#ff0000"><i>says</i></font><font color="#ff0000"> it increases avoidance of the target by 40%, but it doesn't show up. Whether it is actually working, I can neither confirm nor deny.</font> Devout Sacrament: but the hate goes to pally so no need to use on mt <font color="#ff0000">This is a pally self-heal. I can't cast it on others. It's on a 5 minute re-use timer as well. Maybe you were thinking of something else?</font> Prayer of Conviction: wis and power? is the power increase that good? <font color="#ff0000">It's not much, 118 power at ad1.</font> Benediction: this does ac? and this does not stack with out fortified stance? i am told the ac buff is better than out stance <font color="#ff0000">This is a self-only buff as well, it increases defense, divine resistance, and hate generation, while decreasing our attack ability.</font> Crusade: str and st, but zekr can buff more hp than a pally</div> <div> <font color="#ff0000">Crusade is 26 str/sta and 18 wis (app4 and ad1 both). KEP, the level 40 training version in this same line is 28 str/sta, 20 wis, 23 agi. Nice buff.</font> </div> <div>So guys can any one please explain why a pally over zeker? Am i mising some thig about a pally? or monk</div> <div> <font color="#ff0000">Also of note is Gift of Armament, it grants the target 265 mitigation at the cost of 468 of my own mitigation (ad1). Call to Glory increases group attack abilities by 10 and divine resist by 614, but it transfers 5% of the group hate to us. There's a training version that is 10% of the hate.</font> Many thanks</div><hr></blockquote>I don't know much about monks, but I know they talk about "Shrug Off" a lot. I think it's an avoidance buff similar to Unwavering Faith.</span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>korpo53 wrote:</P> <P><SPAN>I don't know much about monks, but I know they talk about "Shrug Off" a lot. I think it's an avoidance buff similar to Unwavering Faith.</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Shrug off is the bruiser targetted avoidance buff (ie they use their abilities to "guard" the target.  So when a mob tries to attack say Noah it'll say "stella blocks, stella parries, stella ripostes).  It increases mitigation, avoidance and the agility of the target.</P> <P>Transcendant Vision is the monk version, it only increases the avoidance of the target (the same way Shrug Off works though) the other two abilites go back to the monk (increased deflection and tranquility).</P> <P>I'm pretty sure that at adept 3 Shrug Off is the better buff, as it adds 3 things to the target, and offers 46% avoidance, where my adept 3 TV only offers 42% avoidance I believe.</P>

[lostsandman]

<P>I am getting confused guys :smileysad:</P> <P>I know people in this board uses the zeker for that mob in IoR cos you need to HP for his ripostes (so zekers not using haste in this case?)</P> <P>Some people (eg Tuna) once said zekers own in MT grps.</P> <P>Some of you gusy are saying that you will avoid any form of hast and go berserk (hence zeker not usingh venemonce). </P> <P>I will welcome some comments form  other guardians and what they do so that i can make up my own mind.</P><p>Message Edited by lostsandman on <span class=date_text>07-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:44 AM</span>

[lostsandman]

<P>Danalstar/korpo53</P> <P>Thansk for yuor post on pally skills. I have soem questions for you,</P> <P>does a pally has any hp buffs? or even STA ones, other than that ward.</P> <DIV>So it looks like between Unwavering Faith (102) and <FONT color=#ffffff> Gift of Armament (265) a pally can increse AC by 367 and plsu 2 to parry</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I know our AC buff fortfied stance does not stack with pally ac buff.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>So i guess, the question is is 400 (about) more AC better than 800hp + 100AC (from fortfied stance)?</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by lostsandman on <span class=date_text>07-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:54 AM</span>

[Pa]

<DIV>People do things differently and it really comes down to your opinion not someone elses, some people like to raise hp's at all costs and some people dont. 400mit is >800hp and random haste I dont want imo. There's no complete heal in this game, your hp reservoir isnt nearly as important without it, but again thats my opinion and I'm sure some people wont agree. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People can argue for 30 pages about how if you take the mit you will take less dmg overall and less ripostes smoothing out the overly absurd spikey dmg combat system somewhat, and if you take the hp's you can take more damage and those 2-4k dmg ripostes wont matter somehow since you have 800 more hp's, and you will have a big # to ooh and aah at in the raid window (sorry I cant argue the other side as well as someone who does think hp > all, but I tried!). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as you make an informed decision for yourself youre not doing the 'wrong' thing either way, both ways work and both are used every day.</DIV>

[Styk]

first of all , currently in the game Wardens dont stack with Templar/mystic combo so right that off and put the conjorer in your group.... in the game currently the best setup ive seen is a Guard,zerker,mystic,temp,troub and conj for HP and defense <div></div>

[knightinplaid]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Styker wrote:<BR>first of all , currently in the game Wardens dont stack with Templar/mystic combo <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Could you explain the problem there? I haven't heard of this before.

[ThramFalc]

You are gonna want a Warden in the MT group for Duststorm... boot the mystic.

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV>the only HP buff we have is not really an HP buff at all..its a buff that gives u 28 to sta..not sure how much hits that it.</DIV>

[Nazo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lostsandman wrote:<BR> <P>I am getting confused guys :smileysad:</P> <P>I know people in this board uses the zeker for that mob in IoR cos you need to HP for his ripostes (so zekers not using haste in this case?)</P> <P>Some people (eg Tuna) once said zekers own in MT grps.</P> <P>Some of you gusy are saying that you will avoid any form of hast and go berserk (hence zeker not usingh venemonce). </P> <P>I will welcome some comments form  other guardians and what they do so that i can make up my own mind.</P> <P>Message Edited by lostsandman on <SPAN class=date_text>07-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:44 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>People want Berserker in MT group not for the melee boost but for the HP boost Lostsand</P> <P>Basically it goes like this :</P> <P>Currently tanking is based on Defense so you want Warden, Troubadour in your MT grp for defense</P> <P>Berserker for HP</P> <P>Troubadour for Stats</P> <P>If you have these then rest is practically irrelevant or situational.</P>