my 2hander is better then my shield? how?

[Xti]

heyas i was down in harclave last night i was using my ebbc the whole time, but i was getting hit alot less then when i was useing my cedar tower shield the last time how is this possible? i thought a shield would protect me more now im wondering if this would happen in a group <div></div>

[Kurg]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Up to my experience, it hardly makes a difference whether I use my Cedar Tower Shield (or my SBS) - or if I dual wield - or use a 2HD weapon  :smileysurprised:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Both of the shields would give me a little bit Avoidance (not even Mitigation what would be logic) and that on a negligibly %-amount  :smileymad: ... I don´t have the excat number but surely under 5% !</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I truely hope, that SOE will change that with the new combat-changes</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[a6eaq]

<DIV>Well, our avoidance should be a lot higher with a shield I must say that a 5% or so increase when eqipped is BS!  But that is due to other fighter classes whining that Tower shields gave Guard/Zerkers too much of an advantage.  But a shield should give us a better chance to avoid a blow by blocking it outright.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too have noticed that there is not much difference when using a two-hander while soloing as far as how many HP's I have remaining at the end of a fight.  I think this is due to us having lower avoidance but higher damage output.  We are getting hit more yet we are also killing mobs faster so our health is relatively equal to where it is while we use a shield.  With a shield we do less damage but have higher avoidance, the fight lasts longer so we will be hit for relatively equal amounts of damage due to the length of the fight.  We therefore have comparable health remaining to what we have while using two-handers/dual wielding.  It all kinda equals out in the end.  Kill it fast but get hit more and for more damage, or kill it slow and accumulate the same amount of damage over a longer period of time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At least, that is my opinion on the issue.</DIV>

[Tobann]

I wonder if it also has something to do with parry and riposte. I feel it is better to hit a MOB once for 50 damage than twice in the same amount of time for 25 each. It means half the chance for riposte to hit you. Tobann <div></div>

[Kurg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> a6eaq wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, our avoidance should be a lot higher with a shield I must say that a 5% or so increase when eqipped is BS!  ................ <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Well, I check yesterday in game...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Avoidance without any shield --> 60,8%</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Avoidance with SBS --> 66,9% (= +6,1%)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Avoidance with CTS --> 67,1% (= +6,3%)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>So, in my opinion, that isn´t a decent difference at all. Beside that I still think, that a shield should give + to mitigation.</FONT></DIV>

[Ciarr]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kurgor wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> a6eaq wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, our avoidance should be a lot higher with a shield I must say that a 5% or so increase when eqipped is BS!  ................ <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Well, I check yesterday in game...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Avoidance without any shield --> 60,8%</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Avoidance with SBS --> 66,9% (= +6,1%)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Avoidance with CTS --> 67,1% (= +6,3%)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>So, in my opinion, that isn´t a decent difference at all. Beside that I still think, that a shield should give + to mitigation.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>you are looking at this in the wrong way </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>60.8% -> you take 39.2% of damage dealt to you</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>66.9%-> 33.1%</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>67.1%-> 32.9%</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>39.2/33.1=118.4%</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>39.2/32.8=119.5%</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>to put it in the simple way, without your CTS you take 19.5% more damage</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV></DIV>

[Kurg]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>@Ciarrai:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>OK, now that´s a very good point!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Many thanks for clearing that   :smileyhappy: ...</FONT></P>

[Drulak]

<P>Ok , good way of putting it Ciarrai .  But now what we need , is a damage parser - do we do more than 19.5% damage to the mob with 2 handed / DW</P> <P>or less . Then it will put our damage taken better into perspective From a solo aspect , obviously as MT - USE SHIELD  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Ciarr]

<DIV> <P>you don't really need a damage parser</P> <P>lets take 2 weapons (with the same delay to make calculations easy):</P> <P>1h: ebon battle axe 17-50/1.7<BR>dw: ebon short spear 10-31/1.7</P> <P>dw: multipled by 2 : 20-62/1.7</P> <P>min dmg 20/17 = 117%<BR>max dmg 62/50 = 124%</P> <P>what about 2h?</P> <DIV>1h: ebon assault axe 20-59/2.0</DIV> <DIV>2h: ebon war hammer 25-74/2.0</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>min dmg 25/20=125%</DIV> <DIV>max dmg 74/59=125%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note: 17% is probably a rounding error (my guess is that this weapon is really 10.75-31)  but I will keep it this way</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>base on this, DW/2H weapons offers damage output higher by 17-25% over 1h</DIV> <DIV>great? not so much... in typical solo fight about 60%-70% of your damage comes from CAs and HOs which are unaffected by the fact that you use 1h or DW or 2h</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lets take it into account:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>60% case:</DIV> <DIV>40*117%+60=106.8 =>6.8% increase</DIV> <DIV>40*124%+60=109.6 =>9.6% increase</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>40*125%+60=110.0 =>10% increase</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>70% case:</DIV> <DIV>30*117%+70=105.1 =>5.1% increase</DIV> <DIV>30*124%+70=107.2 =>7.2% increase</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>30*125%+70=107.5 =>7.5% increase</DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the real gain from using DW/2H is somewhere between 5% and 10% depend on your playing style (CAs, HOs etc)(probably a little closer to 10% than 5% because DW/2H weapons have typically more damage oriented stats than the pair of 1h and shield)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>better for soloing than a good shield? not really, unless you farm something which can't hit you at all)</DIV></DIV>