Should I just not bother until after combat revamp?

[Melanctha]

<font size="3">I am incredibly confused by alot of the issues I've read on this forum, and it seems I'm not the only one. I would really like to build a good tank class. But it seems with combat revamp coming it's impossible to decide which is best. First thought of course was an Ogre Guardian. However.. It is looking like Guardian will serve as an Otank more than not, and Zerker will shine as MT. I could be missunderstanding this, really don't know. So many of the issues here on the forum are pages of people's personal opinions and past experiances that seem irrelivant to the furture of the game to a degree. Also.. and this is where I am confused, but the racial traits that add +5 and +10 to DEF will be taken out of game come revamp, or greatly changed? Therefore race will not matter in a character's abbility? I would be somewhat glad if this is the case, as I really would rather not have to play an Ogre, Barbie, or Dwarf. Iksar and Human are'nt too bad if I am picking race souly off of racial traits. These are my only two questions really.. and please don't tell me to go use the search function. I have been for three days, read hundereds of posts completely, and am getting more frusterated not being able to find much that makes sence. I just must be missing where the actual facts are posted. Thank you. </font><div></div>

[TunaBoo]

guards have better taunts and more hp, will be the best maintank. Zerker will be a good tank in groups and offtanks, but not a maintank. <div></div>

[Arsen]

<P>At this point, pretty much all discussions on this subject are really just speculation.  The changes aren't on the test server yet so we cannot test them, and it will honestly be quite some time after they actually go live that we will have a complete understanding of the new system.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you truly want to min/max your character, you should wait.  Of course, by the time you get everything figured out, then the expansion will come along and everything will change again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Melanctha]

<font size="3">Yes.. It seems like waiting would be the best thing to do as answers are not really around. I might just roll a Human or Half elf for the time being. Really do wish there was something more to go by atm. Let's just hope with the new system Gnomes don't come out on top. Thank you for the replies. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font> <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>guards have better taunts and more hp, will be the best maintank. Zerker will be a good tank in groups and offtanks, but not a maintank.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>We'll see <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>You think you'll still have more hp when they fix buff stacking?</P> <P>I think you'll have the same hp/mit and zerkers will have higher dps while tanking and almost the same aggro, plus you'll have buffs to give to make them tank better.</P> <P>I wouldn't be so sure of yourself Tuna <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[Pa]

<P>ffs go away go away go away</P> <P>They need to fix the gdamn login problem on the boards so I dont have to read your stupid [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] comments any time I open any thread on the entire site.</P>

[Athilna]

<P>thats how it reads, but fundamentally I am quite certain SOE intends guardians to be a slightly better tank, and zerkers slightly better dps, and guardians will still be more generally desirable as MT than other tanks. </P> <P> </P> <P>That said I am equally certain that guardian's day as exclusive raid tank is gone, other classes will get a shot too depending on the mob S/W/O/T and tank's gear/abilities.  And that is as it should be.</P> <P> </P> <P>Heres hoping Moorgards post isn't the full product design spec 8p</P><p>Message Edited by Athilnaur on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:20 PM</span>

[TunaBoo]

IIRC we get like 1 more hp per point of sta then zerks or something.. should end up a tiny bit higher in HP less they get uber hp buffs we don't. <div></div>

[Tyrion]

<DIV>I have not done any serious 50+ raiding, but I'm quite concerned about our damage. I hope the auto-attack damage isn't lowered too much, it already takes me ages killing mobs. It's a bit depressing to see wizards/warlocks melt down solo mobs in 20 seconds, while it would take me up to a minute or more, and that's with decent gear. While it may be safe to solo as a Guardian, it's still not worth it if it takes forever to kill anything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with Athilnaur though. I have faith that Guards will always be the preferred MT unless there's a few raids that specifically require a Brawler or Crusader sub-class. Just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best!</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tyrion on <SPAN class=date_text>07-15-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:38 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Tyrion on <span class=date_text>07-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:40 AM</span>

[Melanctha]

<div></div><font size="3">As it reads to me, it says that guardians will have more/better buffs to put on ~other~ people to make them take less damage, raise thier defence, ect. If there is not a zerker in the MT group then a guardian would be the better tank of the two when left to his own devices. But.. it seems like the two together, zerker tanking with his berserking abilities, hitting for more and taunting as he gets hit, with the guardians buffs on him would be a very good team. It just seems like SOE wants to give all classes an important role in a raid, not just in XP grind. Any of the fighter classes can tank goblins in RE just fine, but what about contested? Looks like they want us to work together more and have there not be UberX Class perhaps. Standing toe to toe with the mob is what I enjoy, I just want to know what class that will be. If i wanted to play a buff bot I'd be playing a bard, but I don't. Of course all of this is yet to be seen.. My second question still stands however, will the racial abilities such as +5 defence, or +2 parry +2 agi ect be as they are now? I've not seen much debate or information on this yet. </font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Melanctha on <span class=date_text>07-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:47 AM</span>

[Stormbil]

<P>This is just my opinion, but I'd say don't try to min/max this.  I think you should just pick the fighter "concept" that you like the most.  The concept of the guardian is to be the defensive tank that helps others have better defense too, Zerkers are a bit more offensive oriented, brawlers are damage/avoidance oriented, etc...   If you try to min/max your character you will always get disappointed at some time or another because things could always change.  I think the only thing that hasn't changed is the overall concept of the different subclasses.  The way they implement it will change, but the concepts stay the same.  Also, from a min/max point of view, I'd say that the traditional fighter races will always have a slight edge as tanks if you want to min/max that.  (ie dwarves, barbarians, ogres)</P> <P> </P> <P>So if choose the concept you like, and the race you like to look at, and you'll most likely be happier in the long run.</P> <P> </P> <P>An example of this is that one on my characters is a mystic. (we all know they are hurting a bit)  I love the concept of the mystic, and I love playing barbarians.  So as a result, I still have a lot of fun playing him even though he is  a bit gimped compared to other healers.</P> <P> </P> <P>Just my 2 copper</P>

[ugl]

<P>I agree, if your into min/max, I would wait till after the combat changes go live for a month or two, heh..</P> <P>Never underestimate the ability of SOE to screw up a game...</P>

[Raahl]

Yes I'd wait.  Too many possibilitys for a class to get screwed up with these sweeping changes.

[a6eaq]

<P>By all means wait!  The way all of my friends interpret the post on the combat changes, the Guardian, of which I am, is be reduced to MT raid mobs.  We all see EQ2 being turned into EQ with better graphics with every LU.  The Guardian, at first glimpse, is being turned into the warrior of EQ.  Everyone will want them for Raids, but try to find a grind XP group and everyone will want a Zeker because they can chew through mobs faster than we can.  After all, if 5 peeps are wanting to gain XP FAST they are going to want a class that has heavy armor and higher DPS, that my friends is a Zerker.  </P> <P>But back to the subject at hand, the doomsayer Guardians, of which I tend to lean toward on this change, may be wrong.  The change may not change things that much for us.  We will just have to see. </P>

[Raahl]

<P>DOOM and GLOOM,  DOOM and GLOOM :smileyvery-happy: :smileywink:</P> <P>Most times I have a wait and see attitude.  But I've got such a bad feeling about these combat changes that I'm on a continual rant.  </P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Paen wrote:<BR> <P>ffs go away go away go away</P> <P>They need to fix the gdamn login problem on the boards so I dont have to read your stupid [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] comments any time I open any thread on the entire site.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I don't post in every thread sir.<BR>

[Nazo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Paen wrote:<BR> <P>ffs go away go away go away</P> <P>They need to fix the gdamn login problem on the boards so I dont have to read your stupid [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] comments any time I open any thread on the entire site.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I don't post in every thread sir.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ah so you post on few threads 4898 times ?   :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

[Jay]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> a6eaq wrote:<BR> <P>By all means wait!  The way all of my friends interpret the post on the combat changes, the Guardian, of which I am, is be reduced to MT raid mobs.  We all see EQ2 being turned into EQ with better graphics with every LU.  The Guardian, at first glimpse, is being turned into the warrior of EQ.  Everyone will want them for Raids, but try to find a grind XP group and everyone will want a Zeker because they can chew through mobs faster than we can.  After all, if 5 peeps are wanting to gain XP FAST they are going to want a class that has heavy armor and higher DPS, that my friends is a Zerker.  </P> <P>But back to the subject at hand, the doomsayer Guardians, of which I tend to lean toward on this change, may be wrong.  The change may not change things that much for us.  We will just have to see. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Maybe it's having seven months of Ranger under my belt that trained me to persevere in the face of adversity, but I don't see any point in moping over changes that haven't even happened yet. Of course I'm concerned and curious, everyone who plays this game should be, but c'mon! I love the role that my guardian plays - he protects his group, takes the pain that they couldn't handle, stoically holding his ground as the mobs throw everything they have at him. Gritting his teeth, digging in his heels, refusing to give up an inch - that's what guardian means to me.</P> <P>We don't have much DPS to speak of in the first place, so I don't go into battles expecting to be the one taking the mob down with huge hits - I leave that to the DPS classes to do what they do best. Again, my main is a ranger, and when I'm playing the ranger I rely heavily on my guardian MT to do what I cannot - soak up huge damage and hold all that aggro. He enables me to do the job that my ranger was intended to do - rapid pinpoint burst damage - without getting my clock cleaned by that hulking demon that I'm repeatedly stabbing in the back. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>As for the OP, I wouldn't wait for anything. Roll up your favorite class / race combination and don't worry about who will be the "best." Guards will continue to do things that other classes can't and vice-versa. Decide what concept you feel most excited about. Do you like the thought of playing the wild, raging berzerker who furiously lashes out at everything in sight? The steadfast, defiant guardian who shields his companions from harm and withstands the deadliest onslaughts from the most fearsome enemies? The crusading paladin whose inner faith and righteous pursuit of justice light even the darkest dungeons? To me, it's not about the numbers or being "the best," b/c there shouldn't be any "best." Just determine what fits your desire, what class you really relate to, and the rest will take care of itself. Good luck.</P>