Holding aggro with a nuker in the group....

[lljh]

<DIV>So there we were in Feerrott.  That little [Removed for Content] Agony popped.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We had a 43 Guardian (me), a 44 Guardian, a 42 Fury, and we convinced a 50 Wizard to help us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was the tank (higher AC) and pulled the group.  I used Smothering Cry with a couple of buffs during the fight.  Agony peeled away from me and went after the wizard eventually killing him (healer did well but couldn't keep him up).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On our second try, I pulled the group and we killed the other 2 wraiths with no problem.  Agony again went after the wizard.  After regaining aggro, I proceeded to cast off about 7 taunts and 5 buffs.  I thought I had built up ridiculous hate when Agony again went after the wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's the best way to keep the aggro with there is a nuker in the group?</DIV><p>Message Edited by lljh on <span class=date_text>07-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:06 PM</span>

[stelle]

well if he cast ice comet to soon,  its almost impossible, im guessing this is what happened <div></div>

[Zaboo]

yea with the wizard being 6-7 levels higher then you im not sure what ekse you could do.  The wizard needs to tone down his dps a bit <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[stronghea]

<DIV>my nephew and I have competitions all the time I am a 40 guard.  and duel a 38 temp. he is a 50 wiz. I am a taunting madman when in anygroup, every taunt i have is being fired off as well as a few buffs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can spend 5 minutes taunting constantly on a mob using all adt3 taunts and buffs (master 1 AoE taunt also) along with stun. He can drop a debuff or two and hit ice comet and will peel almost everytime. It's annoying yes, but it happens the best is watching him die as I refuse to heal or taunt it off. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hey ya wanted it now tank it homie!</DIV>

[Bobbubski]

how about using Rescue in that situation?  perhaps that would help a bit in pulling back agro?  assuming you have it upgraded.

[Nacoa]

Only tip I can give for your play is to make sure every CA you cast is a taunt or a buff, and chain-cast them. High level wizzies have so much damage, they can always get aggro if they want to. <div></div>

[stronghea]

I have rescue at adt 3, and its still a buggy spell that dosent work 3/4 of the  time <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Arsen]

<DIV>The Wizard really has to work with the tank in these situations (more than normal).  They need to keep their damage output very steady and clean (ie.  don't debuff a lot) for most of the fight - any big damage spike is going to peel the monster.  Tell him to use this most mana effecient DOTs and be patient.  Towards the end of the fight, the Wizard can then kick it up into high gear, he should just time it right so that when he does pull aggro, he will be able to finish the monster off before it can do significant harm to him.  And when you do loose aggro at that point, its rarely worth it to continue your taunts, just stun/interrupt and use some damage arts while he finishes him off. </DIV>

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nacoa wrote:Only tip I can give for your play is to make sure every CA you cast is a taunt or a buff, and chain-cast them. High level wizzies have so much damage, they can always get aggro if they want to. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Oh, another tip:  Try to fire off a few fighter-only HOs, and try to be the one to complete any group HOs.</span><div></div>

[Trollb]

<DIV>If a nuker cant [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] cast enough to hold aggro, then the nuker class sucks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a nuker [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] casts at the wrong time, well he probably deserves to die. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunately since we all share in the debt, you definitely want to tell him to tone it down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[mochl]

<P>Ask the nuker to hold off until you have popped your single target taunt at least twice. It's very easy for people in the group to see when you have taunted so he shouldnt have a problem seeing when this happens. Rescue doesnt always place you right at the top of the hate list right away.</P> <P>All of my arts are adept 3 and if a warlock goes all out too soon it takes tons of taunting to get the mob back. Managing aggro is a group effort. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Shizzirri]

Get a chanter or a bard and just mezz agony and tell him no ae's

[Stamm]

No I believe this is a Wizard issue; I was killing ^^ Giants yesterday in TS with 2 healers, a Paladin, a Wizard and a Warlock. Everytime I pulled a Giant it <b>Immediately</b> went after the wizard, even when the wizard did not attack at all that battle. I had to taunt like hell to peel him off and it sure made me feel sorry for the poor wizard getting attacked all the time :smileyhappy: Or is this just a stupid coincidence? <div></div>

[SmakenDah]

<font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2">Was the wizard sustaining some sort of pulse spell or casting a buff on pull? That's usually when mages get into trouble without nuking (this is to the poster above where he was saying giants would go right for the wizard) - buffs on pull. I'm not sure if Wizards get a pulse type buff, but you can see an example of this when you have a chanter who has mind candy going for the group - just inch up and proximity agro an encounter, in less than a few seconds the whole encounter will go charging at the chanter. <font size="1">I use this trick regularily to freak out a chanter friend. <span>:smileysurprised:</span></font> </font><div></div>

[Bobbubski]

do we get a Hold the Line upgrade at some point for situations like this?  is HTL still even of use past 30?

[SmakenDah]

<font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2">No HTL upgade, yes people still use it at higher level.</font><font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2"> </font><font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2"> </font><font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2">I think it was said we'd see a HTL upgrade in the revamp but I might be wrong.</font> <div></div>

[BuzzKillD]

<DIV>I was in a TS group doing gnolls yesterday. We had a wizzy warlock and assassin for our DPS. Upon the mob entering camp I would hit it Anger, Taunting Challenge, Magle (which seems to have an aggro component) and a shield bash. After those (about 10 seconds) I had our DPS department go full bore. I just had to throw in a couple angers and taunting challenges throughout the fight and I never lost aggro once. I even challenged the casters to try and take aggro so I could test my aggro method and they never could. Im sure things will change once they get their bigger nukes, but as It stands now I am sitting comfortably in the aggro seat. Yay guards!</DIV>

[Lamprey_02]

Wait till you get into higher levels - I play a 34 warlock. Never had agro problems in the 20s, now I really have to watch my damage output with sk/paladin tanks. I suspect by the time I get into the late 30s and early 40s, I'll have to watch out with warrior tanks too.It's all due to the damage progression we get; wizard/warlock DPS spikes up more sharply than tank agro generation with levels.

[Tro]

<DIV> <DIV>The problem is not you its the nuker.. If a mob is pulled and immediately goes to the wizard, what does that tell you?. The Wizzy cast something way too early not giving you time enough to build aggro. If the wizard is constantly getting aggro then do what alot of folks recommended.. tell him/her to tone it down. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can only do so much.. and it sounds like you are doing all you can.  Folks sometimes blame the tank for losing aggro. Bottom line is it is the whole groups job to help keep the mob on the tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Lamprey_02]

Yeah, have him tone it down, he can still do very good dps with you - not him - tanking. Having the ability to pull agro anytime is not a license to show off.

[BuzzKillD]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>Wait till you get into higher levels - I play a 34 warlock. Never had agro problems in the 20s, now I really have to watch my damage output with sk/paladin tanks. I suspect by the time I get into the late 30s and early 40s, I'll have to watch out with warrior tanks too.<BR><BR>It's all due to the damage progression we get; wizard/warlock DPS spikes up more sharply than tank agro generation with levels.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah I have a lvl 46 Warlock as my main. I have actually grouped with some really good tanks where as long as I give them about 10 seconds after the pull to get their taunts off (or mobs health down to 85-90%), I can chain cast all my nukes and I wont take aggro. Granted, if i am the only DPS in the group and the fight lasts for a minute and a half or longer I have to pace myself. But in a normal exp group with say 2-3 DPS'ers as long as I use the rule of 10 seconds and have a good tank we mow through things pretty easy with no aggro to me.

[MilkToa]

<P>The fact that the wizard got aggro shouldn't have resulted in his/her death. A wizard has both stuns and a 30+ second unbreakable root (ring of cold).  All's he needed to do was stun the mob,  cast ROC and step behind the mob. After that,  you can taunt and do damage to your heart's content (at least for the next 30 second).</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class=date_text>07-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 PM</span>

[toraedor]

OK, I'm a 35th level High Elf Guardian. Lemme tell you how I do it... 1.) on xp groups and simple stuff, I throw my group buffs (I try to keep DoD active all the time; it doesn't cost anything and lasts 10 min), Desperate Flurry (you'll see why in a second), Iron Will and maybe Intervene or Safe Guard, and my 3mins. Then I throw my taunt (I prefer Entrench*- it appears to have range approaching that of a Bow). Then while the baddies are on their way to me, I throw HTL, followed by an HO (true strike or batter and Shouting Cry.) After the HO goes off, I hit Bury ONCE. Using Bury, if it hits, hits all the creatures in a group (or encounter, I've discovered). Combined with the HTL, it adds agro to all the creatures in the group. Then I sit there, keep an eye on adds and thanks to Desperate Flurry, I hit alot. This adds even MORE hate...due to the HTL.  If we get an add, the first thing I tell my party is DON'T RUN. Stay close to me and let me get an HO off...never fails. I have been in the unfortunate situation of having to get 3 or 4 mobs in Runnyeye or Zek off the casters, and I can get one clean HO off, I always get the agro. I only use Rescue to save the @$#% Ranger so he can evac us. I've made a macro and hot keyed it...It group tells "OUT OF MANA; HOLD THE LINE". I use it when I'm about to run out of Power. The last thing I do before I run out is cast HTL again...that way, every time I hit ( I like fast one-handed weapons), I have a chance to add hate. Something else I've discovered, too....the more critters in a mob, the higher your chance to agro... I haven't lost agro ONCE since level 27. * I use Entrench because of it's de-buff and slowing affect. It's especially effective on casters...I'll generally target Casters with the Entrench, and by the time they get to me, I'm popping the rest of the group with Shouting Cry...While Entrench is still active, I'll target the other members of the mob, and when they're done, I'll drop the Entrench, and turn my attention to the Casters. Since I'm a High Elf, I've put almost all my upgrade points in to AGI. My rationale was, well, I'm never going to do 500pts of damage a hit...I'll never be as strong as a Troll or Barb. But...with my racial, and all the added points I've dumped into AGI, I'm pretty hard to hit... This is just what works for me. I've found it to be very effective; even to the point of allowing me to out-tank Pally's and Zerks  five or six levels higher than me. <span><img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"></span> <div></div>

[KAM]

Commanding presence, AE taunts, hold the line, AE attacks are the best hate building spells atm. Maybe mez the adds and attack agony first so that you increase hate on him through melee and single taunts... when you were taking the adds down first the only hate you were building on agony would come from group taunts/AE attacks/buffs. <div></div>

[Fepp]

<span>I dunno... really in that situation the wizard should have hit the mobs with his unbreakable root (ring of cold) when he pulled aggro - and backed off so you regained agro... no excuse for wizards/warlocks to die. Our root stops them dead for 32 seconds, they then look down their hate list for who is top of it and in melee range.</span><div></div>