Ninja Nerfed....... buffs suck now

[Napolle]

<div></div>well braksans, return to battle, battle tactics, do or die do not stacka nymore....nice little ninja nerf<span>:smileymad:</span> <div></div>

[Vulking]

<P>Are you serious?  They nerfed them?  Why?  My thought has always been that any change, if it came, would be when they impliment the ca changes.</P> <p>Message Edited by Hammarus on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:31 PM</span>

[Shizzirri]

We knew this one was coming look at previous threads I just hope now theres a bigger HP difference between Braksan's Rally and Return to Battle (master 1) before it was like 28 hp's...wow (363 to 391 I think).

[Darkstu]

It wasn't really a ninja nerf per say since they did change the stackbility of those combart arts on the test server with the Test Update #11.

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Napolleon wrote:<BR> well braksans, return to battle, battle tactics, do or die do not stacka nymore....nice little ninja nerf<SPAN>:smileymad:</SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>what a load of [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].... wasnt that all that basically made us better then sk's at tanking?? I mean besides the fact that we had tower shields.. which are now just crappy kite shields... since most of them dont give buffs to stam agi and such??

[Vulking]

<P>Umm yeah its still a ninja nerf even if it shows up on test.  Not every guard is on test, for that matter what, .01% are?  </P> <P>I would define a "ninja nerf" as something they do, but do not tell you about in words.  And spare me all the "you should have seen this coming" and "its been talked about in the forums for weeks" talk.  Im still mad that they have done this and deliberately not bothered to say so.  That bothers me more than the nerf.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Hammarus on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:51 PM</span>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <P>Umm yeah its still a ninja nerf even if it shows up on test.  Not every guard is on test, for that matter what, .01% are?  </P> <P>I would define a "ninja nerf" as something they do, but do not tell you about in words.  And spare me all the "you should have seen this coming" and "its been talked about in the forums for weeks" talk.  Im still mad that they have done this and deliberately not bothered to say so.  That bothers me more than the nerf.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Hammarus on <SPAN class=date_text>06-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:51 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Even more so I do not see the purpose in this nerf.... things gaurds do... buff def.... make mobs angrey... wear heavy armor... and until now buff life... its not like the raid mobs have all been exactly easy... I am sure 1k of life not being there is gonna make alot of the ones we have done harder... if even doable</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JNewby wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Even more so I do not see the purpose in this nerf.... things gaurds do... buff def.... make mobs angrey... wear heavy armor... and until now buff life... its not like the raid mobs have all been exactly easy... I am sure 1k of life not being there is gonna make alot of the ones we have done harder... if even doable</BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Iam going to log in tonight and see how well/badly I do. if the change is too drastic, Im guessing my Guardians going to be stuck at level 48 for a long time to come.</P> <P>Typical SOE logic, What are Guardians good at? Defense..yeah lets reduce that...lord know we were sooo overbalanced...why I soloed Darathar just last week....<BR></P>

[Mig]

It was a bug, and a bad bug. It was obvious they weren't intended to stack, otherwise they would of been on different timers, and the defense portion would of stacked as well. Name me an RPG where you get an ability at level 30, then a upgrade for that ability at level 40, and then you continue to use both those abilities at level 50. 1000 hit points or whatever will not make or break your character.

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Migyb wrote:<BR>It was a bug, and a bad bug. It was obvious they weren't intended to stack, otherwise they would of been on different timers, and the defense portion would of stacked as well. Name me an RPG where you get an ability at level 30, then a upgrade for that ability at level 40, and then you continue to use both those abilities at level 50. <BR><BR>1000 hit points or whatever will not make or break your character.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>hrm the class troubador comes to mind... and bezerker...

[RandomPlay]

<P>It's not just us.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=54302" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffffff>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=54302</FONT></A></P> <P>- RP</P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RandomPlayer wrote:<BR> <P>It's not just us.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=54302" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffffff>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=54302</FONT></A></P> <P>- RP</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>my question is can troubs still stack all their buffs??

[Nazo]

<P>Great we are now down to Paly SK HP ? </P> <P>Excluding the ones with full fabled gear I am sure this will fill the hearts of some peeps with glee :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Looks like game is balanced now... :smileytongue:</P> <p>Message Edited by Nazowa on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:46 PM</span>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nazowa wrote:<BR> <P>Great we are now down to Paly SK HP ? </P> <P>Excluding the ones with full fabled gear I am sure this will fill the hearts of some peeps with glee :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Looks like tanking is balanced now...</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well I guess that depends on what side of the fence you are on now doesnt it... if yer a pally.. who now has better shields... same hp more dmg self heals rezzes... I am sure your happy and feel that tanking is balanced now... but if yer a guard and do little dmg same mit jsut had tower sheilds nerfed... no special abilties otehr then hp buffs... taunts and def buffs... I am sure it doesnt look so balanced...

[TunaBoo]

Helaer HP buffs not stacking on me either.. my raid buffed HP is dropped from 10k+ to bairly 8k. <div></div>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>Helaer HP buffs not stacking on me either.. my raid buffed HP is dropped from 10k+ to bairly 8k.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wow I guess my guild will not be able to raid thill this "little" oversite is fixed.... but I guess my guild cant raid anyhow seeing as the servers are still down... guess it amtters little now since we will jsut get [Removed for Content]

[blueduckie]

<P>Our hp buffs is not all we had over them. Commanding Pressence, Braksans, Fortified stance all are good mitigation buffs. We get more hp off of our stamina i have heard also. And our defensive buffs are still fine.  Paladin cant hang with what a guardian can with out Guardian buffs and even then they still arnt on same level. If you really feel stacking hp buffs was all we had reroll.</P> <P> </P> <P>Deretti</P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blueduckie wrote:<BR> <P>Our hp buffs is not all we had over them. Commanding Pressence, Braksans, Fortified stance all are good mitigation buffs. We get more hp off of our stamina i have heard also. And our defensive buffs are still fine.  Paladin cant hang with what a guardian can with out Guardian buffs and even then they still arnt on same level. If you really feel stacking hp buffs was all we had reroll.</P> <P> </P> <P>Deretti</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>you reroll.. this is my 2nd toon to level 50... a third is not going to happen..... anyhow... barksans is a life buff first off... commanding presence is a short term buff... and fortified stance is one buff.. that pallies and sks have similair types... that is not a class definfing buff by any means... all we have now is 1 life buff... frtified stance a buff that give like 18 to stam.. some useless offensive buff..  and one mroe liek +8 to def buff... these are all pretty standerd tnaking abilities... we did have tower shields and good life buffs.. when I rolled this 2nd toon.. now we are gimped pallies... not to mention that now healers life buffs dont stack wiht ours...

[TunaBoo]

We are hardly [Removed for Content].. still best tank.. but we got nerfed hard and going to make it rougher. <div></div>

[RandomPlay]

<P>This change is being reverted, temporarily.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=54409#M54409" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=54409#M54409</A></P> <P>- RP</P>

[blueduckie]

<DIV>Pallies SK do not get mitigation from there stance buffs. Commanding pressence bing short lasting shouldnt mean crap its alot of mitigation and lasts 45 sec with 1 min recast. That is plenty. I dont know what you are saying is nerfed with our defense buffs mine still add 23. Also invig threat adds mitigation. Is alot that puts us above pally and if you have rerolled a lvl 50  says alot about your faith in sticking to a class. You think we are gonig to have it hard Pallies etc gonna have it even rougher. Why would i reroll when i dont think that makes us suck like you appear to think.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by blueduckie on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:57 PM</span>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blueduckie wrote:<BR> <DIV>Pallies SK do not get mitigation from there stance buffs. Commanding pressence bing short lasting shouldnt mean crap its alot of mitigation and lasts 45 sec with 1 min recast. That is plenty. I dont know what you are saying is nerfed with our defense buffs mine still add 23. Also invig threat adds mitigation. Is alot that puts us above pally and if you have rerolled a lvl 50  says alot about your faith in sticking to a class. You think we are gonig to have it hard Pallies etc gonna have it even rougher. Why would i reroll when i dont think that makes us suck like you appear to think.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by blueduckie on <SPAN class=date_text>06-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:57 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I didnt reroll cause I didnt want to stick to a class I rerolled cause raiding was getting boring at 50 and I wanted to tank the mobs not do whatever I did b4.... point is I do not know the pallie abilities... however I do know that the life stacking in addition with other buffs from classes made us able to tank raid mobs... and it is still difficult... apparently it was a oversite and they did not to mean to make the nerf YET.. but without those life stacking buffs... there really arnt to many buffs left to brag about..<BR>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>We are hardly [Removed for Content].. still best tank.. but we got nerfed hard and going to make it rougher.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>ok not [Removed for Content]... but I mean its not like alot of guilds especially on the lower population servers are nto already having a hard time with the raid mobs.... so what do they go do they make all of them ALOT harder and make the tanks ALOT weaker..</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[blueduckie]

<P>I understand concerns. Alot of the big problem with raiding is about having right classes. Am in a guild that is soon to attempt t5 raid mobs for first time, starting with zalak. I dont want mobs to be impossible for us but i think as a guardian we are still fine. The important of class seperation is the biggest deal on raids. Having max defense buffers. A good inq / fury to lower mobs offensive abilities etc. Need alot of balancing. Honestly when i started playing eq2 was almost kinda like [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] i get buffs! I was surprised guardians got buffs and to learn as i lvled they where such  important buffs.</P> <P> </P> <P>Deretti</P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blueduckie wrote:<BR> <P>I understand concerns. Alot of the big problem with raiding is about having right classes. Am in a guild that is soon to attempt t5 raid mobs for first time, starting with zalak. I dont want mobs to be impossible for us but i think as a guardian we are still fine. The important of class seperation is the biggest deal on raids. Having max defense buffers. A good inq / fury to lower mobs offensive abilities etc. Need alot of balancing. Honestly when i started playing eq2 was almost kinda like [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] i get buffs! I was surprised guardians got buffs and to learn as i lvled they where such  important buffs.</P> <P> </P> <P>Deretti</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well at this moment I have a guild that can do king zalak king drayek the anonica instance taht easy thundering steppes instance... but we cant do ferrott zek or any contested mobs.... not even close ont he contested... point is we have been raiding for a little bit and there were still times when we wiped on drayek or ant inastanse.... all I gotta say is if these nerfs stick... have fun with eyr raids... cause its always hardest when you start... and its gonna be really hard for people now

[stelle]

still killed darathar tonight with no wipes on controlled pull <div></div>

[Divy]

<P>Looks like there was an emergency patch to fix the stacking.</P> <P>Buffs didnt stack, I got booted from all servers.  Reloaded EQ2 and buffs stack again.  @ 9:45PM CST</P>

[Arsen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Divyne wrote:<BR> <P>Looks like there was an emergency patch to fix the stacking.</P> <P>Buffs didnt stack, I got booted from all servers.  Reloaded EQ2 and buffs stack again.  @ 9:45PM CST</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The hitpoint buffs now stack again.  However, more importantly, we lost the stacking of one of our defensive buffs.  Return to Battle and Braksan's Desparate Rally no longer stack defense.</P>

[Tarskin]

<DIV>Guys, i can see that stacking of our hp buffs is what soe never intended and i agree on that but imo buffs should be able to partially stack, for example let's take braksan's desperate rally and return to battle (master 1):</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Braksans = +363 hp, +8 defense and +260 vs crushing</DIV> <DIV>return to battle = +391 hp, +9 defense and like +24 str when spell ends</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Imo we should be able to partially stack these and get +391 hp, +9 defense, +260 crushing and +24 str when spell ends</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean with the changes i cant use my uthros defiant cry anymore for the +4 spell avoidance it used to give either......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wish dev's would read this <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: if this thing would go live i think i'd be using call of protection, call to battle, braksans desperate rally and iron conviction.... wasted is the return to battle and uthors defiant cry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Tarskin on <span class=date_text>06-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 AM</span>

[ThramFalc]

<P>Spell Avoidance doesn't even show up as a skill any more...</P> <P>Is that Return to Battle master 1 that has 9 def? I thought the adept 3 still only added 8 defense.  </P>

[Tarskin]

<P>yeah i made a feedback in game about spell avoidance not even being listed anymore in the skill window <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>and aye RTB master1 has 9 defense.... so imo if they dont stack braksans is a lot better for the vs crushing...</P>

[TunaBoo]

Well they stack again for now.. was a huge pain.. zerker hp buffs overwrote ours, so i would have to fight back and forth to keep one of my normal buffs up..  had to sit there and pick who cast what buff. <div></div>

[-Mor]

SOE spend 8 months tweeking mobs to suit a buff system that was never meant to be rather than fix it in the first place, no issues there except if they continue to tweek the toons lets just hope they undo some of the mob tweeking to balance it back out. Some guilds have some prety uber raid setups, miltary precision and the best of the best gear dripping off them, no worries, thats what harcore raiding is about. Some raids need to be available to the less harcore raiders, thus the King's one and two to mention a few are well suited to a less hardcore raid, again, all by design, no problem there, and yes, if harcore raiders have a daily diet that consists of less than challenging mobs for them for loot, it's just the way it has to be, these are instanced zones so it hurts no one, but increase the challege and you'll risk wiping out casual raiding, and that really does marginalise a lot of players... <div></div>

[Napolle]

1000 hit points or whatever will not make or break your character. um yea.. tell that toa  illusionist (and i know we are not talkig about enchanters here...but your point is that 1k hp dont make or breaka  toon.. im giving an example where it does...finda  new argument.. that 1k (in my case it is 1.6kish form non stacks.. will make a difference) <div></div>

[Napolle]

thanks for the one stars BTW! I love u guys <div></div>

[Mig]

If we aren't talking about illusionists then why did you bring them up? 1k health does not break a toon. I've seen tanks post they can get up to 11-12k. I can't. Most of the time I can only get up to 9-10k. So that's 2k difference. I've still been able to tank. So there's a example. I can't wait till all the whiners quit playing a guardian. Makes me feel warm and tingley inside.<p>Message Edited by Migyb on <span class=date_text>06-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:18 AM</span>

[Nazo]

:smileytongue:I can't wait till all the whiners quit playing a guardian. Makes me feel warm and tingley inside. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>erm so to complain about a nerf is whining ? While you obviously being a tougher guy/gal suck it up and be whatever you are ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To loose capability without getting anything in return is called a "Nerf" FYI and it is perfectly understandable behavoir to object to that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In theory you can tank with 5K HP as well yes but thats totally not the point. You think HP buff stacking will be the only nerf you will see to your class ? Defense buffs will follow right after and finally it will be curtains with Avoidance change to Warrior class and/or Heavy Armor wearers. What I am saying is not just theory you can see the evidences of it all across the forums. So to sum it up over the course of next 2 months you may loose : 1500 HP, 15 Defence, 40% Avoidance and gain NOTHING in return. Will objecting to sum total of this be also considered "whining" by you ? Are we playing the [Removed for Content] my class I can still beat 'em game or something ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Loosing 2 low level buff may not mean anything now but some of us know its just the tip of the iceberg. It is like the small pebble falling down the cliff that starts the avalanche crashing down on you. Meeker you are the more they think they can pile it up for the simple reason that nerfing Guardians makes 5 other classes happy and they can call it game balance taking the easy way out...</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN>I am way beyond believing that each change is done after carefull calculation and study by SoE. I have seen too many evidences to the contrary. Usual approach is "Ooops we really messed things up but what the heck we can correct it in a year or so" </P> <P>The sailing ship that is SoE game design is blown across the sea by Forums :smileyvery-happy: Keep on giving them an inch and be amazed when they take a mile...</P><p>Message Edited by Nazowa on <span class=date_text>06-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

[RandomPlay]

<P>I'm hopeful that it'll go something like this:</P> <P><EM>Your Defense and HP buffs don't stack.  </EM></P> <P>This is the part we've seen leaked. However there are other changes that haven't been accidentally pushed which may look like this....</P> <P><EM>Mobs hit you for less damage, just more frequently, so fewer HPs, Defense, and avoidance isn't as big a deal.</EM></P> <P>Plus we've been told spell tiers and upgrades are more noticeable, so....</P> <P><EM>If you upgrade your buffs to Adept III you will actually see more than 1 Defense point and 10hp difference compared to Adept 1.</EM></P> <P>And as long as I have my wish hat on...</P> <P><EM>Your tower shield now has STA, AGI, and STR paired with WIS, instead of INT.</EM></P> <P>Taken in context of the full set of changes, these mini nerfs may not be as bad as some think.  In fact one could suppose that the reason for the nerfs was because if un-nerfed the other enhancements fighters are getting that we haven't seen result in a character so powerful that it's unbalancing to the extreme.</P> <P>Of course, then again, maybe we are doomed.</P> <P>Time will tell.</P> <P>- RP</P>

[MastikFantastik]

<DIV> <DIV>Just a thought about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realize that the threads have been saying that we can see a difference in adep1 to 3.. etc.. but honestly I haven't yet.  If they will in the future (near hopefully) that will be fine, but back to the issue of buffs staking.  I picked certain character (class) traits because they would stack thus giving me more hp.  I chose Brakans long before the mention that it was going to be changed not to stack seeing that I have been level 50 (or 40+ I think that's whe we got to choose brakan's) for a long time now.  Had I known that brakans would not stack and that each tier would just be an upgrade I would have chose slightly diffenrent traits/abilities. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am getting scared with all these little changes that are comming as I am sure many of you are.  I will stick it out being a guardian, because I never quit just becasue things change or get dificult,  but the idea of going from a class that is known for somethign to a class that doesn't do squat when you can have a bezerker(they get to use tower sheilds as well) do the same if not better all of sudden  heck any plate tank for that matter, and who know possibly the brawlers as well (soaking the dmg  in this respect)  doesn't really appeal to me.   I for one would like to at least be able to do a /respec to take something else in place of brakans if they are to no longer stack. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh well this is where the gameis headed at any rate, I am sure I will adapt to it, but I am not very pleased right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I know they "temporarily fixed the stacking".</DIV></DIV>

[Rah]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>If...errr sorry when the buff stacking changes (nerf) we are seeing occur and if respec is made </P> <P>available what guardian changes will you make?</P> <P>(not a hijack just following the flow of the conversation)</P> <P>Rahge </P></FONT></DIV>

[Nazo]

<P>Taken in context of the full set of changes, these mini nerfs may not be as bad as some think.  In fact one could suppose that the reason for the nerfs was because if un-nerfed the other enhancements fighters are getting that we haven't seen result in a character so powerful that it's unbalancing to the extreme.</P> <P>Of course, then again, maybe we are doomed.</P> <P>Time will tell.</P> <DIV>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh How I hope you are right RandomPlayer.....  but you would think to cut down on the uproar they would have hinted at something ? Still wishing you are totally right even half right lol </DIV>

[Napolle]

If we aren't talking about illusionists then why did you bring them up? 1k health does not break a toon. i bring this up b/c look at enchanters.. you take 1k hp from a lvl 50 enchanter. they got barely any hp.. and yes thwey are a toon liek any other.. so my point is taking 1k hp froma t oon WILL break a toon. our def will probably get nerfed which means instead of tanking with 270-300 def we might be stuck in the 260-270 range. which will make along witha void nerfs probably raid tanking a helluva lot harder <div></div>

[Huna]

just an FYI, they already said that a respec would come along with the combat changes. <div></div>

[Yrield]

<span><blockquote><hr>MastikFantastik wrote:<div></div> <div> <div>Just a thought about this.</div> <div> </div> <div>I realize that the threads have been saying that we can see a difference in adep1 to 3.. etc.. but honestly I haven't yet.  If they will in the future (near hopefully) that will be fine, but back to the issue of buffs staking.  I picked certain character (class) traits because they would stack thus giving me more hp.  I chose Brakans long before the mention that it was going to be changed not to stack seeing that I have been level 50 (or 40+ I think that's whe we got to choose brakan's) for a long time now.  Had I known that brakans would not stack and that each tier would just be an upgrade I would have chose slightly diffenrent traits/abilities. </div> <div> </div> <div>I am getting scared with all these little changes that are comming as I am sure many of you are.  I will stick it out being a guardian, because I never quit just becasue things change or get dificult,  but the idea of going from a class that is known for somethign to a class that doesn't do squat when you can have a bezerker(they get to use tower sheilds as well) do the same if not better all of sudden  heck any plate tank for that matter, and who know possibly the brawlers as well (soaking the dmg  in this respect)  doesn't really appeal to me.   I for one would like to at least be able to do a /respec to take something else in place of brakans if they are to no longer stack. </div> <div> </div> <div>Oh well this is where the gameis headed at any rate, I am sure I will adapt to it, but I am not very pleased right now.</div> <div> </div> <div>Yes I know they "temporarily fixed the stacking".</div></div><hr></blockquote>*First of all, I don't want to troll  and I don't aim this post directly at you because I quote you* Yes scared you should be. The main goal of the combat revamp/tanking balance is to make player skills matter. Right now a lot of guardian tank because when you right click on them and select inspect you will see "Joe Level 50 Guardian". Not because they are the most skilled tank in the guild/raid/group/whatever (and i don't say its your case btw). Thing like buff stacking just created an artificial gasp between the tank class, you can be the most skilled player in world if you have 3k/4k less HP than the guys next to you because he can stack buff from lvl20 to 50 and not you, doesn't matter if the player is a trained monkey or a skilled player... he still have 3000 hp more than you. Sorry but if I have 65 more STA than a guardian i don't think its fair when the guardian still have more hp than me. Sure on a 1:1 ratio of STA, guardian should have more hp than me. But no 65 pts of STA is NOT a small difference (as matter of fact the guard didn't worked on STA because he could catch up with the HP buff stacking). The most common excuse I see every where is: Guardian should have an excessive amount of HP because paladin can heal/ward/rez, following this logic down the path, paladin should have an excessive amount of power over a guard because pally have to heal/ward/rez. I guess that why i have a power buff, lets look at the number: Lvl50 Master1 Increase WIS of group member by 10, Increase max power of group by 127 (and of course, the skill don't stack with the previous version) So 127 pts of power strong, what can we do with that ? lets see... Heal...158 power Ward... 156 power Rez... 228 power Sooo how I'm suppose to catch up over 1.6k HP self-stacked with my 127 power self-buffed ? I think you see the point here... After tanking balance if everything is done right, Guardian still  the more "natural" tank on paper, but buff  wont catch up for the skill (or the lack of it) of the player. So with the same gear and the same player skill, you should really feel the breath of the pally behind your neck. And if the pally is more skilled he will be a better tank. Its called Balance. And that should hold true for the other tank class (i took pally for example because 1) I know the class 2) pally is a defensive tank like guardian). I Think everyone should be happy with that, do you really want to be the best because your class is broken ? I don't think so... (btw i don't say it doesn't take skill to play a guard, I just say random_guard_01 don't derserve to tank ONLY because he rolled a guard)</span><div></div>

[MastikFantastik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Yrieldom wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MastikFantastik wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>Just a thought about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realize that the threads have been saying that we can see a difference in adep1 to 3.. etc.. but honestly I haven't yet.  If they will in the future (near hopefully) that will be fine, but back to the issue of buffs staking.  I picked certain character (class) traits because they would stack thus giving me more hp.  I chose Brakans long before the mention that it was going to be changed not to stack seeing that I have been level 50 (or 40+ I think that's whe we got to choose brakan's) for a long time now.  Had I known that brakans would not stack and that each tier would just be an upgrade I would have chose slightly diffenrent traits/abilities. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am getting scared with all these little changes that are comming as I am sure many of you are.  I will stick it out being a guardian, because I never quit just becasue things change or get dificult,  but the idea of going from a class that is known for somethign to a class that doesn't do squat when you can have a bezerker(they get to use tower sheilds as well) do the same if not better all of sudden  heck any plate tank for that matter, and who know possibly the brawlers as well (soaking the dmg  in this respect)  doesn't really appeal to me.   I for one would like to at least be able to do a /respec to take something else in place of brakans if they are to no longer stack. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh well this is where the gameis headed at any rate, I am sure I will adapt to it, but I am not very pleased right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I know they "temporarily fixed the stacking".</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>*First of all, I don't want to troll  and I don't aim this post directly at you because I quote you*<BR><BR>Yes scared you should be.<BR>The main goal of the combat revamp/tanking balance is to make player skills matter.<BR>Right now a lot of guardian tank because when you right click on them and select inspect you will see "Joe Level 50 Guardian". Not because they are the most skilled tank in the guild/raid/group/whatever (and i don't say its your case btw). Thing like buff stacking just created an artificial gasp between the tank class, you can be the most skilled player in world if you have 3k/4k less HP than the guys next to you because he can stack buff from lvl20 to 50 and not you, doesn't matter if the player is a trained monkey or a skilled player... he still have 3000 hp more than you.<BR><BR>Sorry but if I have 65 more STA than a guardian i don't think its fair when the guardian still have more hp than me. Sure on a 1:1 ratio of STA, guardian should have more hp than me. But no 65 pts of STA is NOT a small difference (as matter of fact the guard didn't worked on STA because he could catch up with the HP buff stacking). The most common excuse I see every where is: Guardian should have an excessive amount of HP because paladin can heal/ward/rez, following this logic down the path, paladin should have an excessive amount of power over a guard because pally have to heal/ward/rez. I guess that why i have a power buff, lets look at the number:<BR><BR>Lvl50 Master1 Increase WIS of group member by 10, Increase max power of group by 127 (and of course, the skill don't stack with the previous version)<BR>So 127 pts of power strong, what can we do with that ? lets see...<BR>Heal...158 power<BR>Ward... 156 power<BR>Rez... 228 power<BR>Sooo how I'm suppose to catch up over 1.6k HP self-stacked with my 127 power self-buffed ? I think you see the point here...<BR><BR>After tanking balance if everything is done right, Guardian still  the more "natural" tank on paper, but buff  wont catch up for the skill (or the lack of it) of the player. So with the same gear and the same player skill, you should really feel the breath of the pally behind your neck. And if the pally is more skilled he will be a better tank. Its called Balance. And that should hold true for the other tank class (i took pally for example because 1) I know the class 2) pally is a defensive tank like guardian).<BR><BR>I Think everyone should be happy with that, do you really want to be the best because your class is broken ? I don't think so...<BR><BR>(btw i don't say it doesn't take skill to play a guard, I just say random_guard_01 don't derserve to tank ONLY because he rolled a guard)<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes I see your point  there about the 1.6k hp vs 127 power stuff.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But unfortunetly to get balance in the game the way things are they will have to make all the fighters the same.  SOE's idea of all tanks tanking equally(interchangeble) is flawed in the fact that they do it differently therefore not equally. (they may accomplish the same kill but not equally)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one am not worried about people tanking better then me because if they can (even now I let them), and the fact I have a lot of friends that send me tells to come tank for them as I log on because the one they are with is awful (or possibly they just want to group with me). But the thing is with the way things are going Guards will be obsolete, a zerker will have about the same hp (in general) as a guard.  They can have the same mitgation/avoidance as a guard (same gear related, towersheild taken into account) pallies/sks not far behind in that due to the little Sheild factor diff between towers and kites. Matter of fact kites are better stat wise becasue they have str, agi, or sta on them not many tower sheild if any ( I have yet to see one).  But my concern is that the skills the guardian has such as protection(intervene) ones are broke (well not broke but close to useless) , or of little use as it stands right now.  Our def is going to be getting nerfed so guards will have what? not much if anything we are low dps, soon to be gimped def, no real utility. hmm where as the other plate wearers such as sks, zerkers, and pallie have utilites and supperior dps to guards in general (I know some people do more or less dps but as a whole). Yes I know that zerkers dps will nerfed some but it will still be supperior to that of the guardian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So unless they change it right after it goes live or before, zerkers will be almost identical to a guardian in all asapects of defense except they do more dmg, will hold agro better and have utilities. Now from a group or  raid stand point they will take the zerker over a guard. They probably will take a pally over a guard (because of the little diff that will exist in gear/hp and the utilities the pally brings) heck might take an SK over guard for the same reasons as the pally. That leaves monks and bruisers, well they are changing the avoidance mitigation stuff soon (from what I have read) so all plate wearing will avoid about 40% less and get little to no more mitgation then what we have currently.  Where as the monks and bruisers will be dodging a heck of alot more, but that's fair.  The only bright side for the plate tanks in the tanking role will be HP and the fact mitigation tanking can be trusted more then avoidance as a whole.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if all goes the  way things seem to be going guards will have what in comparisson to the other tank classes. Hmm they might have a bit more hp (minor amount probably 100 hp or less), a slight def bonus (slight being the opperative word) and errr.. that's about it really.  so once again I am worried about what is going to happen to guardians the way things are going. Then again I am only 1 person and I happen to be a guardian so thus I am worried about the changes and impending nerfs to the guardian class, not to say I think guardians should be the only class that can tank, but that's all we can do but that seems to be slowly taken away from us (the tanking portion from guardians).</DIV>