View Full Version : A midsummer nights dream...
<DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** early in the mornng**</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monktank_01 wakes up, and sleeply clicks on the Dev tracker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Mooreguard posts:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Combat changes are now in effect!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Wizards will do 300 DPS<BR>Assassins wil do 300 DPS<BR>Swashbucklers will do 270 DPS<BR>"<BR>"<BR>Monks will do 110 DPS<BR>Zerkers will do 100 DPS<BR>Guards will do 90 DPS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Additionally,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Monks will now tank 90% as effective as a guardian.<BR>Zerkers will now tank 95% as effective as a guardian.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>Monktank_01 YES! I am a REAL TANK BABY! Moorguard came through! YES!</DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#ffff33>***afternoon comes***</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monktank_01 logs in</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Raidleader_01 /gu OTM to orangeubermob_01... HURRY before the competition ganks it!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc>Monktank_01 /tells raidleader_01 Hey man, you read the patch notes? I can tank bro! Monks can tank! woo hoo!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc>Raidleader_01 /replies yea dude, that rocks, I know you been pushing for those changes for months, grtz man</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc>Monktank_01 /replies right on man, I am a REAL TANK! You gonna put me up to bat or what?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc>Raidleader_01 /replies well man, ya know I want to. But orangeubermob_01 is awful mean, and we need all the edge we can get. I am going to put guardian_01 up there, we got to give it our all...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff33cc>Monktank_01 /replies ahh man, its ok, I understand</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Monktank_01 /gu LFG man, where are my homies at ? dps group 3 invite me please!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff66cc>Raidleader_01 /replies ahh man, sorry man, but errr, yer dps kinda sucks now, and we need all the edge we can get. You know that new assassin recruit that apped? We gonna put him in group 3. Can ya go hang out at the docks with zerker_01, guardian_02 and shadowknight_01 till we are finished? I will see what we got for the next spawn and try to cram ya in, if some of the healers or DPS log out...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff66cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff66cc>Monktank_01 /replies dude... alright man</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff66cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff66cc>Raidleader_01 /replies man, sorry man, maybe later on tonight when peeps start logging and the rarespawn are dropped, you can lead a little raid over and kill Zalak, and tank it..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff66cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff><FONT color=#ff66cc>Monktank_01 /replies alright man! I can tank the epics now! I am a REAL TANK! woo hoo, I cannot wait to pull him tonight!</FONT> </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>***1 month later***</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Moorguard posts:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Epic combat changes are now live!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>In order to provide challenge to the min/max guilds, we are currently upgrading all epic mobs to be even more powerful.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*********************************</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moral of the story is, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. </DIV> <DIV>Can anyone say that this scenario is out of the realm of possibilities? Is this what you really want?</DIV> <P>Good luck!</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by uglak on <span class=date_text>06-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:26 PM</span>
<DIV> <P>I like stories that are based on very few if any facts.</P> <P>1. Who said raids will require only 1 tank? Moorguard has said they intend to make having multiple tanks in a raid a benefit if not required.</P> <P>2. DPS groups love the Zerker haste and proc buffs not to mention the added strength buff will help even more in the upcoming changes (entire Strength Vs Agility thing). So why not have a berserker in a DPS group even if they are not the king of damage, called utility. (Cannot comment on other classess because I do not play them).</P> <P>3. Great DPS numbers, way to grab numbers out of the air.</P> <P>4. Why not wait till the combat changes hit test before yelling the sky is falling?</P> <P>What needs to happen is you need to gain faith in the developers. Faith the developers will not destroy a game that they have spent years creating. Faith the developers will change the combat system into something more entertaining and balanced then combat and raids are currently. </P> <P>Once the combat changes are on test and being ironed out voice your oppinion full throttle, because at least then you will have something to base your complaints on (even if it is second hand knowledge). Until that time why even post a story that is based on your imagination only and has nothing to do with how the current combat system works or how the new combat system will work?</P></DIV>
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>I like stories that are based on very few if any facts.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6633>For the most part, they are facts that the devs have stated.</FONT> <FONT color=#ff6633>Fighers will gain tanking ability, and lose DPS. Its common knowledge, where have you been?</FONT></P> <P>1. Who said raids will require only 1 tank? Moorguard has said they intend to make having multiple tanks in a raid a benefit if not required.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6633>History of EQ2 thus far says it. And no, u still dont need multiple tanks for nag or lavastorm. But, Moorguard says alot of things... Show me the money.</FONT></P> <P>2. DPS groups love the Zerker haste and proc buffs not to mention the added strength buff will help even more in the upcoming changes (entire Strength Vs Agility thing). So why not have a berserker in a DPS group even if they are not the king of damage, called utility. (Cannot comment on other classess because I do not play them).</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Yea.. Shamans had alot of good buffs in EQ1. They were nicknamed, "buff [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]es". Is that what you envisoned your zerker to be when ya made him? Is that what you want him to be now? Sort of like a bard? Have you noticed the stuff about buffs not stacking, caps, etc? With power regen nerfs, you think haste caps/nerfs arent far behind? oops, thats specualtion.</FONT></P> <P>3. Great DPS numbers, way to grab numbers out of the air.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Actually, theyre consistant with the order he ahs presented them. Fighters at the bottom, scouts/mages at the top. Grab any number ya like and plug em in if ya like. But if you think guards and zerkers are gonna be busting over 150 dps i got a bridge to sell you. Whatever the number is, 2 other archtypes are going to be blowing it away.</FONT></P> <P>4. Why not wait till the combat changes hit test before yelling the sky is falling?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>When the combat changes hit, the time for discussion is over, as they will be here. Why not discuss them before they come? Have you been reading the forums, thats pretty much what everyone talks about. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600> But, that said, who is saying the sky is falling? I am merely pointing out a likely scenario. It doesnt matter to me if you lose your dps and gain tanking ability. Cause guardians will, in all likely hood, still have their job covered. They will supposedly still be the most defensive tank. /shrug (but, thats still specualtion, right?) </FONT></P> <P>What needs to happen is you need to gain faith in the developers. Faith the developers will not destroy a game that they have spent years creating. Faith the developers will change the combat system into something more entertaining and balanced then combat and raids are currently. </P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Yea, I will make sure and put that in my prayers before bed tonight. Faith...</FONT></P> <P>Once the combat changes are on test and being ironed out voice your oppinion full throttle, because at least then you will have something to base your complaints on (even if it is second hand knowledge). Until that time why even post a story that is based on your imagination only and has nothing to do with how the current combat system works or how the new combat system will work?</P></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>So, your speculation on how it will work fantastically is greater then my speculation it will be poorly implemented? Maybe you didnt read this part of my post:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>"Can anyone say that this scenario is out of the realm of possibilities?"</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Are you saying the above scenario is not possible after these combat changes? </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Did you try to raid angler tonight? He wasnt home, on his first day back from vacation.</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>I do not know if this will be the case or not. But, I sure wont say it wont happen. But, looks like, there are alot of people that would be fine with it happening. In fact, some want it to happen. /shrug</SPAN></P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by uglak on <span class=date_text>06-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:31 PM</span>
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uglak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Chogar wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>I like stories that are based on very few if any facts.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6633>For the most part, they are facts that the devs have stated.</FONT> <FONT color=#ff6633>Fighers will gain tanking ability, and lose DPS. Its common knowledge, where have you been?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Never argued fighters will lose DPS and gain tanking ability. What I did say is your story is based on very few facts if any. Meaning the only item based on any truth in your story is fighter types doing less damage then 2 other class types.</FONT></P> <P>1. Who said raids will require only 1 tank? Moorguard has said they intend to make having multiple tanks in a raid a benefit if not required.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6633>History of EQ2 thus far says it. And no, u still dont need multiple tanks for nag or lavastorm. But, Moorguard says alot of things... Show me the money.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Currently you do not need 2 fighters to Raid. If Moorguard has informed people correctly then multiple tanks will be required on a raid after the combat changes. Time will tell, I choose to wait till the changes are on test before calling others a liar.</FONT></P> <P>2. DPS groups love the Zerker haste and proc buffs not to mention the added strength buff will help even more in the upcoming changes (entire Strength Vs Agility thing). So why not have a berserker in a DPS group even if they are not the king of damage, called utility. (Cannot comment on other classess because I do not play them).</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Yea.. Shamans had alot of good buffs in EQ1. They were nicknamed, "buff [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]es". Is that what you envisoned your zerker to be when ya made him? Is that what you want him to be now? Sort of like a bard? Have you noticed the stuff about buffs not stacking, caps, etc? With power regen nerfs, you think haste caps/nerfs arent far behind? oops, thats specualtion.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>I envisioned the Berserker to be a tank when I created him. That the berserker has skills that improve other classess DPS is just icing on the cake. How will the berserker class handle after the combat changes, time will tell.</FONT></P> <P>3. Great DPS numbers, way to grab numbers out of the air.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Actually, theyre consistant with the order he ahs presented them. Fighters at the bottom, scouts/mages at the top. Grab any number ya like and plug em in if ya like. But if you think guards and zerkers are gonna be busting over 150 dps i got a bridge to sell you. Whatever the number is, 2 other archtypes are going to be blowing it away.</FONT></P><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> <DIV>I agree mages and scouts will do more damage then fighters. Never argued that point. Doing 3x the damage... Creating numbers to win an argument is pointless, so the Wizard will do 150 DPS the Zerker will do 125 DPS. See, the Wizard is still higher with room inbetween for all of the other class. Imaginery numbers are pointless because anybody can "create" a number and make their point look valid. How much more damage will scouts and mages do? Time will tell.</DIV> <P>4. Why not wait till the combat changes hit test before yelling the sky is falling?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>When the combat changes hit, the time for discussion is over, as they will be here. Why not discuss them before they come? Have you been reading the forums, thats pretty much what everyone talks about. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Yes I have been reading the boards. And the changes will hit test before live. The combat changes are going to be on test till SOE believes they have the changes correct. </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>With that said there will be plenty of time to raise the caution flag before the changes hit live servers. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Imaginary statistics like Wizards will do 3x the damage of a fighter does not help a discussion. Throwing out imaginary numbers does not help prove your point. Being patient and waiting for the changes to hit test and then bring facts into play is how you make SOE listen. </FONT><FONT color=#ff6600></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600> But, that said, who is saying the sky is falling? I am merely pointing out a likely scenario. It doesnt matter to me if you lose your dps and gain tanking ability. Cause guardians will, in all likely hood, still have their job covered. They will supposedly still be the most defensive tank. /shrug (but, thats still specualtion, right?)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600><FONT color=#66ff00>Your "likely" scenario is just as likely as asking all of the left out fighters in your story to take the place of other classes because they are required to win the Raid. Not based on any facts; however it is still just as likely.</FONT></FONT></P> <P>What needs to happen is you need to gain faith in the developers. Faith the developers will not destroy a game that they have spent years creating. Faith the developers will change the combat system into something more entertaining and balanced then combat and raids are currently. </P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Yea, I will make sure and put that in my prayers before bed tonight. Faith...</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Got to have Faith.</FONT></P> <P>Once the combat changes are on test and being ironed out voice your oppinion full throttle, because at least then you will have something to base your complaints on (even if it is second hand knowledge). Until that time why even post a story that is based on your imagination only and has nothing to do with how the current combat system works or how the new combat system will work?</P></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>So, your speculation on how it will work fantastically is greater then my speculation it will be poorly implemented? Maybe you didnt read this part of my post:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>When have I ever stated the combat changes will be done flawlessly? What I have said is have patience and rip the combat changes apart when they are on the Test server, because it is impossible to show how balanced / unbalanced a system is when you have no clue how it will work accept for the damage order.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>"Can anyone say that this scenario is out of the realm of possibilities?"</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Are you saying the above scenario is not possible after these combat changes? </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Can your story happen, sure. Aliens taking over the world on July 4th is possible as well. Me winning the lottery is possible. There are alot of things that are possible that will more then likely never happen.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Did you try to raid angler tonight? He wasnt home, on his first day back from vacation.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Maybe he decided to take an extended vacation?</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>I do not know if this will be the case or not. But, I sure wont say it wont happen. But, looks like, there are alot of people that would be fine with it happening. In fact, some want it to happen. /shrug</SPAN></P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by uglak on <SPAN class=date_text>06-24-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:31 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Orki who Pos
06-28-2005, 12:52 PM
<P><FONT size=3>Have faith in sony. They allways do the right thing.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>If in doubt, ask a high level mystic..</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>... if you can still find one playing the game that is.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I'll have to chime in with the original poster, if you arent providing utility (and being one of the <U>few</U> tanks that are getting hit is utility) then you are generally better replaced by one of the top dps classes, especially for hard fights.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>All raids needs A: Someone to prevent the mob from killing the raid, and B: Someone to kill the mobs. If you do not fit either category, being 5'th in line to tank the mob, and doing half the damage of someone in group B, getting invited for the raid will be somewhat rough. - But hey.. you can sit outside of the raid instance playing banjo, and cracking jokes in guildchat.. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>
TunaBoo
06-28-2005, 02:37 PM
<div></div><div></div>Indeed this is very true. If monks and zerkers gain tanking abil and lose dps, they will be worthless on raids. Something 95% as good as a guardian is still worse. And why settle for weak fighter dps over assassin/ranger dps. I have yet to find any encounter in the game where more then 1 tank was needed (and I have deafeated/tanked all save 2) <div></div><p> I agree tanking needs to be balanced a little but, but in DPS mode make sure all fighters can do at least decent, or it really sucks on raids. <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by TunaBoo on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:39 AM</span>
<P>Looks like they will be getting what they wished for with a bonus. Only thing bugging me is that probably 90% of them didnt event ask for it.</P> <P>/sigh</P>
SmakenDah
06-28-2005, 04:39 PM
<font color="#ff9900" face="Verdana" size="2">Honestly, that is one of my bigger fears. Complete lack of use on raids being about the 4th or 5th string Guardian (if not 6th LOL) in my guild. At least now I can do some decent damage (Royal Great Flail + hastes). I guess I might have to start playing my sorcerer or my predator and get them up in levels. <span>:smileysad:</span> </font><div></div>
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmakenDahed wrote:<BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff9900 size=2>Honestly, that is one of my bigger fears. Complete lack of use on raids being about the 4th or 5th string Guardian (if not 6th LOL) in my guild. At least now I can do some decent damage (Royal Great Flail + hastes).<BR><BR>I guess I might have to start playing my sorcerer or my predator and get them up in levels. <SPAN>:smileysad:</SPAN><BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Sadly this is true with most epic encounters. Long ago when raids 1st came out we off tanked here and there. After a while it just became 1 tank pulling the whole encounter while the other guardians would try to spam CAs to do dps. Sadly, these 4th and 5th guardians dont have much to do on raid in the tanking manner. You can't easily "switch tanks" when the 1st or 2nd tank dies so usually if that happens, the raid is a bust and you wipe, rez up and pull again. This is a flaw I personally would like to see fixed but with raids not allowing cross group buffing, it would seem futile for a "tank" to step up with out the "MT group" buff set up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2nd Issue that comes up is agro. Pulling an encounter as a MT you get a huge amount of agro from vitaes, wards, and initial hate list hit. "Peeling" off a mob to off tank is almost impossible as a 2nd or 3rd Guardian unless done as a specific time and the MT does not trigger a whole bunch of vitaes on the pull. This would be another situation I would like to see adjusted so other strats could be implimented.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
Dfoley3
06-28-2005, 10:07 PM
Rumor has it uglak is really a gnome who uses ogre illusion so his guild will let him tank! In all honesty the dps changes they posted arent that far off what they currently are, with just slight tweaks to swash/bards....and unless they fix stacking, i dont expect swashes to be that great. Fyi, as a monk, i can tank spirit of vox (instance versio) ...i only know this cause uh, i tanker her for over a min waiting for healers to rez and get people up! (sure its my fault we died cause i peeled with auto attack :-/) moorgrad tells uglak random fake msg "dude i play a bruiser....why would i screw them?...seriously u know theres a reason theres an entire suit of brawler only armor for a reason right! we dont share with sisy druid01 or swashsucker0501 <div></div>
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