MT group makeup

[_Thran]

<DIV>Hi all.  I wanted to get some feedback from the community about the best makeup for a MT group for a melee raid mob (like Darathar), which means getting hit points, mitigation, and avoidance up as high as possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a level 50 barbarian guardian and can self-buff to 7242 hps by using: pristine imbued ring of stamina, pristine imbued ring of agility, tier 5 food, Battle Tactics (adept 1), Do or Die (adept 1), Return to Battle (master 1), Braksan's Desperate Rally, Call of Protection (adept 1), Call to Battle (adept 1), Iron Conviction (adept 1), Fortified Stance (adept 1), and Commanding Presence (adept 1).  In an actual raid I would also be using +17str/sta and +17 agi potions, along with the two Bloodlines tokens.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's the best group makeup to boost my hps and defense as high as possible?  How high can I expect to get my hps in a raid situation using 7242 as a self-buffed baseline?  In raids I've generally used something like:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Templar</DIV> <DIV>Mystic</DIV> <DIV>Inquisitor</DIV> <DIV>Fury</DIV> <DIV>Berserker</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Occasionally I have a troubador or warden along but not always, and sometimes they're in the MT group.  I very rarely have a bruiser, monk, SK, coercer, conjurer, necro, or defiler available.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This weekend vs. Darathar our zerk had to go and I ended up trying two guardians in the MT group.  I used Sentry on the other guardian and had him MT, which turned out to be a bad idea.  Apparently Sentry generates a lot of aggro (and intercepts 52% of the time), so within the first couple seconds of the fight I took 7k of damage meant for the MT and Darathar turned on me (I was behind it) and badness ensued.  A better choice in retrospect would have been to use Vigilance on him, which would boost his avoidance by 39% and only intercept 5% of the time (presumably generating much less aggro).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, any suggestions on what group makeups work the best for melee-heavy mobs?  Any thoughts on the two guardians + Vigilance idea?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tankz]

<DIV>Defense is king in my opinion. There are ways and "tricks" to get your defense to 311 before using bloodline tokens. Zerker is needed on Darathar because of the incredibly high barrage damage that can be dealt. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should end up with around 10.6k hp. Don't forget about potions and such. </DIV>

[_Thran]

<DIV>Ok, so let's use the following as a starting point then:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Berserker</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Templar</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Out of the following healer classes which would you guys use to complete the group (again for maximum melee defense/hit points): Mystic, Fury, Warden, Inquisitor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's difficult to find information on the relative effectiveness of the various buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thrane</DIV>

[Aren]

<P>Against Melee mobs I like</P> <P>  Guardian, Templar, Warden, Dirge, Conjuror, Pally/Zerker/Mystic</P> <P>Against Elemental AE</P> <P>  Guardian, Templar, Warden, Wizard, Troubador, Pally/Zerker/Dirge/Mystic</P> <P>Against Noxious AE</P> <P>  Guardian, Templar, Mystic, Warlock, Dirge, Pally/Zerker/Troub</P>

[Urglu]

What does the Zerker have that makes them help against Darathar's Barrage? Is it something a Pally doesn't have?

[Aren]

<DIV>Hitpoints, lots of them</DIV>

[Friskc]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>What does the Zerker have that makes them help against Darathar's Barrage? Is it something a Pally doesn't have?</P> <HR> <P>About 1200 hitpoint's for ya =)....... Oh yea and not to mention the haste/casting the "skill berserk" on you help you hold aggro as if you were a Zerker, by far that's the coolest thing i enjoy doing making a gaurdian a aggro magnent making him go berserk So Much Fun! same skill that makes you go berserk gives you more a a chance to block,parry,dodge ect</P> <P>Zerkin Fury of the shard</P> <P>Oggok</P> <P>Guild Nerfed</P><p>Message Edited by Friskcin on <span class=date_text>05-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:49 AM</span>

[Styk]

Yup had the MT in my guild go [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] when he saw vehemance fire off berserk 4 times in a row for him then he saw 3 blocks i a row from it also ..... + 1200hp to group is nice ( oh and the haste is good for MT dps wise ) Berserker = MT group for hp's and back up if Guard goes down till he can get rezzed and buffed <div></div>

[ugl]

<DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> _Thrane_ wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, so let's use the following as a starting point then:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Berserker</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Templar</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Out of the following healer classes which would you guys use to complete the group (again for maximum melee defense/hit points): Mystic, Fury, Warden, Inquisitor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's difficult to find information on the relative effectiveness of the various buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thrane</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok , I will take a stab at it,  does this sound correct?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Add the warden for the +10 defense buff, and the conjurer for more hitpoints?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so would </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Berserker</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Templar</DIV> <DIV>+</DIV> <DIV>Warden</DIV> <DIV>Conjurer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give maximum DKP and defense out of that setup for a melee mob like Darathor? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or if  you cannot get the conjurer put in the   mystic?</DIV></DIV></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by uglak on <span class=date_text>05-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:12 AM</span>

[Aren]

<P>There is no single set up for max efficiency, you have to guage the mobs abilities and build based on that.</P> <P>Darathar has massive DPS, and a Fire AE (that was upgraded today)</P> <P>For this fight you need max hp(Zerker/Pally/Conjur) balanced with fire resist(Warden/Wizard/Troub).</P> <P>For a fight like King Zalak, you don't have to think about any resist, and he doesn't hit as hard, so focus on avoidance(warden, bards, zerker)</P> <P>The only Constant in my groups is Templar, Guardian, Bard(either)</P> <P>And I almost always use a Warden if available</P>

[_Thran]

<P>Well, I'm going to try the following this weekend and see how it goes vs. Darathar:</P> <P> </P> <P>Guardian + Berserker + Troubador + Templar + Mystic + Warden</P> <P>Which class is going to have better hit point/mitigation/avoidance buffs, mystic or fury?  (I could replace the mystic with a fury.)</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks!</P> <P> </P>

[TunaBoo]

Nah dont put fury in MT group. They shine in a melee group buffing up the troops. Darathar has so much freaking agi/levels.. I give up on dodging and don't even put a bard in my MT group. Just go max hp and heals, something like Guard- Temp- Ward- Zerk- Conj and then either a wizzy if i want some HR, or a mystic if I want some avatar. On daily random easy mobs my favorite setup is something like Guard - Temp - Ward - Dirge - Coercer  - Wizard get a pretty nice mix of resists/heals/buffs and a uber hate mod from the coercer.. makes me unpeelable. But to me, the holy trinity is guard temp warden everything else changes by the mob... many times I take monk over zerk to trade hps for better block buffs. <div></div>

[Styk]

Tuna there is a buff that is used in raid we can give called Vehemance.... adept 3 version of it is aweseom since it increases Parry,Dodge and Block ( thou it doesnt show in stats , our MT loves it since it really works well + berserk proc on it for him is good agro ) Thats why im always in the MT group lol , hp,str and vehemance BoT i am ( oh and if Guard goes down i can tank while he recovers ) <div></div>

[_Thran]

<DIV>On Saturday we started with the following group for Darathar:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Templar</DIV> <DIV>Warden</DIV> <DIV>Mystic</DIV> <DIV>Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Berserker</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This group would have done fine and we were kicking Darathar's [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], but the login servers were down as we relogged to clear some buggy aggro so we couldn't log back on for an hour and a half.  About 75% of the raid returned after the login servers came back up and we got some more people, and killed Darathar with the following group:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Templar</DIV> <DIV>Warden</DIV> <DIV>Mystic</DIV> <DIV>Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Berserker</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So just FYI, both of those groups worked fine on him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[lostsandman]

<P>Guys i don't understand somethign about the  zeker.<BR><BR>I grp with a lvl 49 zeker and we get the hp buffs going.</P> <P>What i don't understand is how can you make the guardian go berserk? What spell(s) the zeker cast on me that makes me (50 guardian) goes berzerk?</P> <P>Please expaling thsi to me. I talked to my zeker friend and he is not sure how to do it....</P> <P>many thanks</P> <P>PS you guys know any website which has very detail information about class skills? e.g the power cost, all the effects, number etc. The SOE one does not help at all.</P>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lostsandman wrote:<BR> <P>Guys i don't understand somethign about the  zeker.<BR><BR>I grp with a lvl 49 zeker and we get the hp buffs going.</P> <P>What i don't understand is how can you make the guardian go berserk? What spell(s) the zeker cast on me that makes me (50 guardian) goes berzerk?</P> <P>Please expaling thsi to me. I talked to my zeker friend and he is not sure how to do it....</P> <P>many thanks</P> <P>PS you guys know any website which has very detail information about class skills? e.g the power cost, all the effects, number etc. The SOE one does not help at all.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Vehemence, the Berserker avoidance buff (cast on another character, increase their avoidance) also grants both the caster and the target a chance to go Berserk (50% haste, 5% dps buff) on a successful attack</DIV>

[lostsandman]

<P>Thanks for that info. we will try this tonight. btw my zeker friend is not goign to be very happy <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When i told him of this he said you have better defense than me and its not fair if you can also go berserk! Its goign to be fun.</P> <P>Also i seem to be geting about 300hp from a conj. what is the max possible? what are the spells they need to cast? is it some cleaver buff stacking?</P> <P>Also what is thr max possible hp can we get from a pally?</P> <P>Also can i increase my avoidance by having a monk or brusier in grp? if so by how much?</P> <P>Many thanks again</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by lostsandman on <span class=date_text>05-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:46 PM</span>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lostsandman wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks for that info. we will try this tonight. btw my zeker friend is not goign to be very happy <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When i told him of this he said you have better defense than me and its not fair if you can also go berserk! Its goign to be fun.</P> <P>Also i seem to be geting about 300hp from a conj. what is the max possible? what are the spells they need to cast? is it some cleaver buff stacking?</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>How much the conjuror adds depends on the rest of your group's make-up. If you already have lots of stamina buffers, you'll get little hp gain from the conjuror - however you will still gain good all-round mitigation versus physical and magical and other utility.</FONT></P> <P>Also what is thr max possible hp can we get from a pally?</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Paladins also buff hp through stamina, so you don't gain a massive amount from them in a MT group.</FONT></P> <P>Also can i increase my avoidance by having a monk or brusier in grp? if so by how much?</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>All tanks get an avoidance buff to place on another character and (since the Bruiser one was nerfed) they are all pretty similar. As the Berserker also grants +1000hp, 60% haste, +10 melee to group, he's the one to take in most cases.</FONT></P> <P>Many thanks again</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[kenji]

sorry i know this the wrong board to ask, but which Zerker spell(s) add 1200 hp to MT? many thanks

[Ayum]

<DIV>So what buff u, as a MT got from your MT group ?<BR>Anyone can list the stat added 1 by 1, and what <BR>level is that buff spell ?</DIV> <DIV>Thank you.</DIV>

[blueduckie]

<DIV>I was kinda curious to what songs you all have your troubador's play on raids and if it depends on mob etc. I personally am a defense hoe and like for mine to play swan song and invigorating opus + 1 stat song. I hear alot about swan song + 3 stat songs. Invigorating opus is + defense haste and agi. However it takes up 2 concentration. Wondering if you have tried it and found that the higher defense out weighs the stats. Especially if you have a mystic and warden in group to boost stats high anyway. Granted this is leaving out resist songs but that stat song can turn into power regen  or a resist just as well.</DIV>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> sorry i know this the wrong board to ask, but which Zerker spell(s) add 1200 hp to MT? many thanks<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Berserkers can't add 1200hp to the MT - they can buff a group by ~1140hp using 4 buffs, but a Guardian shares one of these, so the Berserker will only add ~950hp (or ~675 if they didn't take the hp training option)... actual numbers depend on upgrades, ofc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The spells are:</DIV> <DIV>Battle Tactics (warrior line) - 190hp (ad3);</DIV> <DIV>Uthros' Superior Tactics (lvl 30 training option - many take the taunt instead) - 276hp and 19 strength;</DIV> <DIV>Screaming Fury (tier4 hp/haste buff) - 311hp (ad3) (haste doesn't stack with below);</DIV> <DIV>Destructive Rage (tier5 hp/haste buff) - 363hp (ad1) and 10% haste;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: ingame numbers.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Pin StNeedles on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:05 AM</span>

[Po]

<DIV>Troub, Warden, Mystic, Coercer, Zerk, Guardian...Played right 331 defense. (Thats 250=level 50. 300 = 60. 330 =66.) If of course we are talking pure melee fighting. </DIV>

[kenji]

<P>Thanks alot Pin StNeedles <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>ya i found that my guild zerker cant buff up to 1200, that's why i was curious <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>thanks again</P>

[Friskc]

<HR> <DIV> <P>Thanks alot Pin StNeedles <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>ya i found that my guild zerker cant buff up to 1200, that's why i was curious <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>thanks again <HR> <P></P></DIV> <P>its around 1200 hp is what we give (never inspected the Exact amount of which we give seeing we share battle tatics seeing we are both warriors) but thats also master spells i have ..... makes a big difference. :smileywink:</P> <P>Zerkin </P>

[Pin StNeedl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Friskcin wrote:<BR> <HR> <DIV> <P>Thanks alot Pin StNeedles <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>ya i found that my guild zerker cant buff up to 1200, that's why i was curious <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>thanks again <HR> <P></P></DIV> <P>its around 1200 hp is what we give (never inspected the Exact amount of which we give seeing we share battle tatics seeing we are both warriors) but thats also master spells i have ..... makes a big difference. :smileywink:</P> <P>Zerkin <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I edited my post last night with the exact numbers (2 adept3, 1 adept1, 1 training) and they come to 1140 - or 950 not including Battle Tactics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Masters make little difference to these buffs - 8, 14 and 28hp difference... which is 1190 total, or 992 added to a Guard.</DIV></DIV>

[Aaliamz]

Paoc, I really don't see how a coercer adds to a tank's DEF. What am I missing? <div></div>