Backup Tank (BT) choices

[Tankz]

<DIV>Theres a few mobs out there who aggro wipe (Lord Nagalik, Commune, etc) during which times it's good to have another tank #2 on the aggro list. My question is, does the class of the BT always have to be Guardian; or can it be a Paladin, Zerker, Sk, etc? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest problem is that btwn our Guardians our taunts aren't on the same tier most of the time. It's hard to find another Master Deafen, Vengeful Strike, etc and most of them have 14-20 sec debuff durations during which time another guardian is without that skill and the valuable hate it generates. In this case we've taken to using a Palaidn as a backup Tank, as they get generally the same amt of taunts and when in the same group as another guardian i can't see any distinct differences btwn their mitigation and avoidance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fortified Stance from the looks of things doesn't stack with raid buffs as far as defense goes. When in the same group as a Guardian the Paladin gets Call of Protection, Return to Battle etc. They can use the same exact armor as us, and can generally use the same weapons as us. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any unforseen downfalls to using a Paladin as a backup tank. Would a Zerker, or Shadowknight have any more desierable traits or attributes that I'm not aware of?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any opinions would be appreciated.</DIV>

[Sazzabi8]

Not sure what you mean by the other guardian being without  the ability to generate hate with deafen or vengeful strike. I have never noticed an inability to cast either of those with both guardians chain casting them. I still use fortified stance, even though the defense doesn't stack, for the mitigation I get from the vs crushing and vs slashing part of the buff. Paladins can be tank #2 no problem from what I have seen. I believe berserkers have slightly better defense and agro abilities than pal/sk so if we had a berserker with the type of gear our pally has we might use them instead. I'm not aware of anything special pal/sk get that would make them superior to a berserker for tanking. <div></div>

[Shakir10]

<DIV>Tankzem is right, if the main tank has Adept III deafen for example, then if someone else has Adept III or less, they won't be able to use their deafen untill the efect of the main tanks has worn off. THe reason you may not have had any problems Sazzabi is that your skilll might be better than other people in your guilds during raids, in which case you would always override theirs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know when I go on raids I very often get the message that I can't use a particular skill at such and such time because someone else with equal or higher level of that skill has just used it who is a guardian in raid as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the moment, I don't think it really matters who the Secondary tank is Tankzem. But after the combat changes, it appears Paladins will probobly be prefered when possible. And if a Pal is main tank, Guardian will probobly be prefered backup As long as both are well equipped. If you have a better equipped Sk/Zerker, then they of course would be the better choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And lastly, I believe Tankzem is mainly talking about raids, NOT normal grouping, just in case anyone goes there with that old debate.</DIV>

[TunaBoo]

We use guardian for both if we can.. if not we make the backup a pally or zerker.. monk in a pinch :p <div></div>

[Tankz]

<DIV>I figured Pally or zerker would be able to do it but wasn't quite sure which would be best. Our Guardians have a big gap in their taunt tiers which would be hard to bridge. Having a Guardian only be able to use Taunting Blow, Taunting Assault and Shouting Cry reduces their effective taunting level by a ton. I'll just have to make sure that in the future our buffs are spread right or maybe even leaning towards the Paladin. Playing with Harbringer and Aqueous breathing as well as a few other things may make the difference next time a Paladin has to step up and tank a raidx4.</DIV>

[jreed]

A couple of things.  First there is nothing wrong with using a Pally or SK as a MA(main assist) on some encounters as we do that often. On raid mobs you will often find that the adds you are wishing to off tank will not be taunted off assisting the main mob regardelss of what you do ( for example the AL  adds will not be taunted off  the main agro regardless of what you do) and you will find that is the case in many encounters. Naglik changes agro RANDOMLY, and thus  once the first 4 adds are down (either a pally, sk, or guardian can take the adds on prior to engaging the lord) the lord will switch targets randomly bout every 30-40 seconds.  The main reason a pally would not be on adds is because you will need your pallys on full time rez duty during that encounter. As far as being #2 on the agro list the only problem with that is usually if the MT goes down on these bigger mobs it is about impossible for another tank class to get the agro before 1/2 the raid is wiped.  Also, even if another tank class was able to get agro, getting the healers to switch to the new tank before he went down is pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] hard also.   Agro in eq2 does not work like it does in eq1 where if the MT got killed another tank class could step up and the healers could switch to him and you could proceed with the kill.  It has been my experience that if the MT goes down on a hard raid mob you are done for that try. Weeper 50 Guardian  The Tribunal <div></div>

[Tankz]

<DIV>As far as MA goes, we usually use a monk and yes reactive aggro is usually such that it takes a determined fighter class to get the adds off the MT. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On mobs that mez or aggro switch it seemed to me that there is a method to the madness. Nagalik has somethin gof a trick that enables you to keep aggro on the MT or BT most of the fight. You are right however, Paladin and Dirge rezzes are a huge help for getting people up mid raid. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Commune we were able to keep the aggro on 2 people until our BT started dying. We had the same defense but I had 10 fabled pieces to his 0 and he took a lot more damage, eventually going down. If you time [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] right and make the proper hotkeys it's not too hard to switch to a pre-designated target at an announced time and heal him like you would the Guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm just looking for that extra edge that would have won us that fight and was wondering if a Zerker or SK would offer any definate benefits.</DIV>

[Friskc]

Yea same thing happend to us what we simply did (killed first time) gaurdian tanked Me Zerker stood with my Gaurd every time switched agro simply casted promise of violence takles 1 sec to cast (10 sec recast) basically blows rescue out the water, and had aggro instantly. (basically dont even let the mob spin all the way around how fast the aggro is)....... no one died he's a puss tanked about 50% of em me and gaurd going back and forth! LOL he did knock me knock me out though was pretty funny! laying on floor unconscious!................. doing with 19 peep's made it to easy bah, maybe one day mobs will really be EPIC! <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerkin Fury of the shard (50 Zerk)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oggok </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guild Nerfed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Friskcin on <span class=date_text>05-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 AM</span>

[Styk]

Try using a Berserker with there Focus Rage Discipline up and have them take dmg, lets see if they dont generate enough agro to offtank <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I know i do.... Keep the Guards in for tank swap if needed ( for the mysterious 20k nuke that Drayek likes to do every other encounter <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ) I like my role in my guild as offtank / MA , works nice <div></div>