Petition to change Deafen!

[Kryog]

Heh. I don't like Deafen.  I frequently group with an enchanter, and I like to taunt before breaking mez.   Unfortunately, Deafen breaks mez because of its secondary effect.  Am I the only one here who would like all our major taunts (non attack oriented ones, like taunting assault, vengeful, etc.) to have no side effect, and be able to taunt without busting mez? <div></div>

[Aren]

<P>Forget Deafen</P> <P>Change Protect to work on Raid mobs!!!!</P>

[Ibis]

the issue is in a difference between CAs and spells.  many spells dont effect mez, most combat arts (if not all) do.  i know that illusionists and inquisitors can mana drain a mezzed mob without breaking mez.  we cant.  likewise sorcerer AEs dont break mezzes but if you land crushing anvil, topple, tremor, etc. you can be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sure it'll break. and no I do not support the removal of the mana drain from deafen regardless of its effect on mez.  I agree with aren, protect needs to be changed badly. <div></div>

[Napolle]

they wont change protect its too good fo a taunt.. and use the ae taunt that does work on raid mobs. and HTL u wont have aggro issues <div></div>

[zapc]

While i agree with napolean Seloxias doe shold plenty of ae aggro, i think it stupid that our best grp taunt protect does not work on raid mobs, if anything is getting fixed it would be that, and taking the stupid 1 minute recast off our hitpoint buff line.

[Kurg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ibishi wrote:<BR>the issue is in a difference between CAs and spells.  many spells dont effect mez, most combat arts (if not all) do.  <STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>i know that illusionists and inquisitors can mana drain a mezzed mob without breaking mez</FONT></STRONG>.  ..........<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffff00>No, that isn´t possible atm ... maybe SOE will change it, but right now Illusionists / Coecerer cant do that.</FONT>  :smileysad:<BR>

[Anom]

<DIV>I dont know about you guys, but i would love to see ATLEST all of our taunts land on freakin epic mobs. i mean, when im MTing a epic encounter, if im not spamming all 6 taunts, our zerkers have a field day with ping ponging agro. If they're trying to making all fighters beable to tank just as effective as guardians, atlest give us our taunts..</DIV>

[RafaelSmith]

Umm is taunting, etc before breaking Mez as important in EQ2 as it was in EQ1?.  I mean most of the time I just start hitting the mezzed mob and 99% of the time its on me w/o even using any taunts.   I still use HTL on multi mob encounters and it doesnt break mez so maybe thats why mezzed mobs seem to be already aggroed on me.   Regardless I still havent seen a need to do anything special before breaking mez.  <div></div>

[Swiller_Alesba]

<P>Well, I think part of the problem is the fact that zerk's and other tanks just can't wait to blow their load of damage on the mobs, and with that, they get aggro. Just as in EQ1, it's important to let your main tank get aggro and maintain it, yet, I see alot of fights where everyone digs into the mob within 1-3 seconds.</P> <P>And fix protect SOE, making our best spells useless against Epic or raid mobs is pure short bus.</P>

[Subtlekni]

<span><blockquote><hr>Swiller_Alesbane wrote:<div></div> <p>Well, I think part of the problem is the fact that zerk's and other tanks just can't wait to blow their load of damage on the mobs, and with that, they get aggro. Just as in EQ1, it's important to let your main tank get aggro and maintain it, yet, I see alot of fights where everyone digs into the mob within 1-3 seconds.</p> <hr></blockquote>Exactly. Some I have grouped with KNOW they can pull aggro, and they think it is funny to do it. The other day I was fighting some heroic and 2x mobs with a zerker in the group (3 levels lower).  She thought it was funny to "out tank me".  I don't mind zerkers tanking, but they might want to get appropriate single target buffs before they pull aggro........ of what would have been a red ^^^ named. "Look at me! Look at me now!  Ow, oh, get it off! Rez anyone?"  As far as the effects of our taunts, well I don't raid much yet, but I'm happy with them like they are.  I defer to those with more experience on the mater though I guess. When I know a mob is about to die, and I know  that I'm about to switch to a mezzed mob, I just try and make sure that I have a slam and status change ready.  That few extra secs gives plenty of time to re-establish hate from the enc or templer that was healing the enc ;0  before the mez. </span><div></div>

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Swiller_Alesbane wrote:<BR> <P>Well, I think part of the problem is the fact that zerk's and other tanks just can't wait to blow their load of damage on the mobs, and with that, they get aggro. Just as in EQ1, it's important to let your main tank get aggro and maintain it, yet, I see alot of fights where everyone digs into the mob within 1-3 seconds.</P> <P>And fix protect SOE, making our best spells useless against Epic or raid mobs is pure short bus.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bing, I always ask (non guildys, pickup folks) to give me like one combat round to build hate. One thing I noticed about EQ2 initial agro is king to hold it throughout a fight. All this means is dont use your high Dam CA's right off the bat. One combat round is all I ask for (atelast on ^^ mobs).

[Tankz]

<P>Your Beserker is most likely using skills with taunt in them, which is a very stupid thing to do. Swashbucklers have the same problem, if they get aggro on a raid mob let them die and hope they don't wipe the raid with barrage or riposite.</P> <P> </P> <P>As far as a skill to open up with on a mezzed mob, use Protect; thats about all it's good for. I like the power drain on our deafen. Any power drain is a great source of aggro imo, it's also crucial to drain most raid content asap. </P>

[Shizzirri]

<P>What people actually mezz??? That's new to me...</P> <P>If your worried about the mezz breaking early just use suppress instead for the mezzed mobs, then use deafen in other situations wher eyou feel its appropriate.</P>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Shizzirri wrote:<p>What people actually mezz??? That's new to me...</p><hr></blockquote> Hehe I was asking myself that same question.. I group alot with  a Coercer friend and frankly 99% of the time I forget she can even mez because well 99% of the time we dont need it. =P  I tell her to play around with charm, etc and have fun while i keep the mobs on me.</span><div></div>

[Ibis]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kurgor wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Ibishi wrote:the issue is in a difference between CAs and spells.  many spells dont effect mez, most combat arts (if not all) do.  <strong><font color="#ff9900">i know that illusionists and inquisitors can mana drain a mezzed mob without breaking mez</font></strong>.  <div></div>.......... <hr> </blockquote><font color="#ffff00">No, that isn´t possible atm ... maybe SOE will change it, but right now Illusionists / Coecerer cant do that.</font>  :smileysad: <div></div><hr></blockquote> I could swear....well I'll ask around.  But I know when I was levelling up we would have bosses drained by time we got to killing them, and they were mezzed for most of the fight.  and when I would tell my group not to AE, wizards and warlocks would tell me they didnt break mezzes.  they were right too.  So I'm curious about any inconsistency in the system.</span><div></div>

[Kryog]

Wow.   I figured actually posting on the Guardian's forum, other guardians would understand how important it is to have an enchanter on certain encounters and how nice it is to not actually break mez using a taunting ability.  But all I'm getting is '[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] n00b u suk' type responses.  So, obviously this may have been the wrong forum to post in about a valid problem that may one day need to be addressed.  In my opinion our base taunts (single target and group) should NOT break mez and should be useable on every encounter without disrupting crowd control.  Deafen and Protect have deficiencies that need to be addressed.  To hear some of you people spout garbage like "omg u mez?!?" just sickens me.  Either you have no clue, or have never grouped with a legitimately good one.  Anyway. I imagine most are coming from the standard grouping format of "Guardian pulls, guardian tanks, guardian blows his power using his 5, 6, 7 taunts and everyone is happy."   Well, not everyone plays in a standard group format, and I think it should be valid that if an enchanter draws aggro, that the taunts I am using to pull the mobs off of them don't break the mez effect if it lands before my taunt does.  Sure, Mez isn't as important as it is in EQ1, but that doesn't mean that it is not important at all. <div></div>

[TunaBoo]

Mez is never needed, it is handy in case of adds, but not needed. Taunting through a mez is very very very very low priority , and I would not want deafen nerfed to work on mezzed mobs. Mez is more or less nonexistant in the raid end of things, which is what I care about. <div></div>

[Aren]

<P>Exactly, the skill Deafen doesn't need to be changed to suit your tactics, your tactics needs to change to suit the skills.</P> <P>Use suppress a few times, then a stun, and deafen and you should never had a problem with a mob on a chanter.</P> <P>I don't ever remember a chanter in my exp groups dying quickly after a broken mez that I couldn't get aggro back quickly.</P> <P>Raid mobs is another story, but they can't be mezzed anyway.</P> <P>Deafen does not need to be changed, in my humble opinion. And I didn't say "[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] noob u sux0r", I just disagreed with you</P>

[Kryog]

Ahh, I understand now.  People who raid are the only ones whos concerns are important.  Sorry, I stand corrected. <div></div>

[English Da Gua]

<P>  Well, that is not fair to assume, be it how SoE works or not.</P> <P>  What I can tell you is that by the time you are 50, anything that can be mezzed can be taunted with Protect which is about +300 hate in regards to deafen. It may say it does not work on epic mobs, but what it means is it does not work on ^^^ mobs.</P> <P>  If you do not want to break mez but want to maintain aggro without having lower level taunts on the hotbar, use protect, commanding presence and then retaliate or staggering slam and that enc won't have aggro anymore. AND, if they somehow did, throw a taunting assualt down. If you have done the right thing and focused on upgrading your taunts aggro will never be an issue with deafen left how it is.</P> <p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>05-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:00 AM</span>

[Ibis]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Kryogen wrote:Wow.   I figured actually posting on the Guardian's forum, other guardians would understand how important it is to have an enchanter on certain encounters and how nice it is to not actually break mez using a taunting ability.  But all I'm getting is '[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] n00b u suk' type responses.  So, obviously this may have been the wrong forum to post in about a valid problem that may one day need to be addressed.  In my opinion our base taunts (single target and group) should NOT break mez and should be useable on every encounter without disrupting crowd control.  Deafen and Protect have deficiencies that need to be addressed.  To hear some of you people spout garbage like "omg u mez?!?" just sickens me.  Either you have no clue, or have never grouped with a legitimately good one.  Anyway. I imagine most are coming from the standard grouping format of "Guardian pulls, guardian tanks, guardian blows his power using his 5, 6, 7 taunts and everyone is happy."   Well, not everyone plays in a standard group format, and I think it should be valid that if an enchanter draws aggro, that the taunts I am using to pull the mobs off of them don't break the mez effect if it lands before my taunt does.  Sure, Mez isn't as important as it is in EQ1, but that doesn't mean that it is not important at all. <hr></blockquote> </span><span>LOL, and being a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about people disagreeing with your opinion is going to make you any more beloved?  Every response here has been valid except this one.  If you want the mana nuke to not break mez thats one thing, but its obvious the majority of guardians want the mana nuke to remain.  There are what? 3, 4 comments about mezzing amongst the discussion ?  </span><span>Believe it or not they meant no disrespect to you personally. I'm so glad that while we know nothing about your problems you know exactly how we all play the game.  I typically blow all my power within the first 4 seconds to be exact. I find it to be a superior way to play my class. I'm getting tired of people on these forums getting defensive because someone doesn't agree.  Everytime you make a you vs. them issue against fellow guardians you're going to lose</span><span>.</span><span>  Treat your peers with the same respect you expect in-turn and don't pay attention to those who don't follow suit. </span><div></div>

[Oakwood]

<P>Wow this degenerated fast :smileysad:</P> <P>I hope this Kryogen is not the same guy as my old guildmate from Vazaelle, he was a really great guy, wouldn't have gone off like that on people just because they don't agree with him.</P> <P>On a note related to the OP, why not use other taunt skills if the target is mezed, use deafen only on unmezzed mobs?  Any of you lvl 50 folks recall off hand what is the highest level taunt that does not break mez?</P>

[pagit21]

<P>I seldom taunt adds anyway... Commanding Presence seems to be god of add agro imo.   Even before I had that skill with someone mezing mobs in a group i would just buff out agro since with a chanter power is never really an issue anyway for normal xp. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Ethar</P> <P>50 Guardian of Innothule</P><p>Message Edited by pagit21 on <span class=date_text>05-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:31 AM</span>

[Tankz]

<DIV>Smothering Cry i believe is a lvl 38 or so AoE taunt with no damage factor to it what so-ever. I'm not 100% sure on it, as i don't use the skill anymore myself.</DIV>

[Aren]

<DIV>Level 50 Protect has no damage factor either, but it has a stifle, which makes it unusable against ^^^ mobs. Shouting Cry has no stifle and can therefore be used against ^^^ epics</DIV>

[Subtlekni]

What is the threat on shouting cry adept III at 50?  Anyone have it handy? I choose the road less traveled i guess, so i don't use shouting to taunt epics. Just curious what I'm missing.