Class Representative poll - from the lounge.

[Subtlekni]

<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Non-Gameplay&message.id=96124&jump=true" target=_blank>Class Opinion Poll</a> Most of the other classes have a thread on their board discussing it, but we don't yet. So here it is.  (sorry for hitting enter at first when posting this.) Faarwolf basically asks in the lounge: <i>When you think of a Shadowknight...what poster comes to mind as being knowledgeable, helpful and positive?  What about Bards?  Coercers?   You get the idea.  I'd like to know who each of you think of as being representative of your class/subclass/etc, including Artisans.</i> ------------------- So since we are the guardians, who do we think of? Only one post in the thread so far for guardians, and it was a mention of  DemosthenesEQ2 (aka Noah). What do you guys think?<p>Message Edited by Subtleknife on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:05 PM</span>

[English Da Gua]

<P>   For guardians, I think of me. Just as Noah probably thinks of Noah and Tuna probably thinks of Tuna. A representative should represent a vast majority of people, and no one guardian does. Noah is on the far right (high end), but there are many guardians who are not.</P> <P>   I would prefer to NOT have a representative. Look at Gage. He has very good points and would be the obvious choice for monks due to his number of posts. But, many monks do not agree with him overall, although many do.</P> <P>   If the devs have an issue I would just prefer them to post it in the appropriate forum and let ALL OF US, high end, average, and low end, answer. SoE always caters to the high end people, it was like this in EQ1 and it has seemed to be the way of EQ2 as well, although not nearly as bad. </P> <P>   If SoE has questions or issues that pertain to guardians, I would prefer they ask it in OUR forum, instead of having a default person to answer for us all.</P>

[Szy]

<span><blockquote><hr>English Da Guard wrote:<p>   For guardians, I think of me. Just as Noah probably thinks of Noah and Tuna probably thinks of Tuna. A representative should represent a vast majority of people, and no one guardian does. Noah is on the far right (high end), but there are many guardians who are not.</p> <p>   I would prefer to NOT have a representative. Look at Gage. He has very good points and would be the obvious choice for monks due to his number of posts. But, many monks do not agree with him overall, although many do.</p> <p>   If the devs have an issue I would just prefer them to post it in the appropriate forum and let ALL OF US, high end, average, and low end, answer. SoE always caters to the high end people, it was like this in EQ1 and it has seemed to be the way of EQ2 as well, although not nearly as bad. </p> <p>   If SoE has questions or issues that pertain to guardians, I would prefer they ask it in OUR forum, instead of having a default person to answer for us all.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Very well said szydd permafrost</span><div></div>

[Belce]

I would be happy to support Gage to be the guardian rep, his insight in our class is like no other and his passion and commitment to them are second to none.

[Oakwood]

<P>In EQ1, the class representatives gave the players a direct line to the devs with the specific concerns and issues of the class.  </P> <P>IF that is what they are looking to do here, I think it is a good idea.  There should be 2 or 3 representatives for each class though, to broaden the spectrum of who is being represented.  If there is only one rep, and he is a top guild main raid tank, concerns of non power raiders may get overlooked.</P>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belce wrote:<BR>I would be happy to support Gage to be the guardian rep, his insight in our class is like no other and his passion and commitment to them are second to none. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That was my first thought too.  But, I figured I would be tarred and feathered and ran outa town on a rail if I posted it.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>PS, there is a fast train leavin shortly  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Oakwood]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belce wrote:<BR>I would be happy to support Gage to be the guardian rep, his insight in our class is like no other and his passion and commitment to them are second to none. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>ROFL!!!</P> <P>Well, he is the loudest at proclaiming himself <EM>the</EM> expert in tanking and all things guardian.  We should just nomiate him as overall fighter rep and bask in the utopian world he grants us :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>I VOTE ENGLISH DA GUARD!!!!!</DIV>

[Gaige]

I am huh?  Care to post some quotes from me where I declare myself the expert on tanking and guardians?

[Belce]

<P>Gage,</P> <P>You are without a doubt the most prolific non guardian poster on this forum that I know of, I read some of them and comment in a few threads and I meant no insult by the suggestion, I do admit that I and others may have taken some fun at your expense.   </P> <P>IMo, the idea of having class reps is mainly to direct class comments to one person and have them deal with it instead of a company rep, I worked with the first class rep for armsman in DAoC and that person had to deal with alot of unpleasentness in game and out due to that.  Failure to get things or prevent things are seen as a failure of the rep in some cases.   I wouldn't wish this job on anyone. </P> <DIV>Another part of me actually thinks that the best person to be a class rep is someone that is not of that class.  It would mean requiring people to make arguments in their point's favour much better and would have to agree with that individual's perception of that class in game.  I understand that it would be hard to get community acceptance of this idea, but I think you could get fairer presentation of class issues with this.  If we could present something to Gage or someone else from another class and they accept that as needed it becomes class A wanting a change in class B as oppossed to us wanting something for us.  </DIV>

[Belce]

<P>And as an add, if there were any posts from the past where you declared you are an expert on tanking and guardians, that would automatically eliminate you, the fact that you haven't is one more reason to support you in this.  You are a knowledgeable person on the subject and capable of understanding the agruments for and against. </P> <P>See, he denies his expertise, only a true expert would deny their expertise.... follow the Gage... The Life of Brian</P>

[English Da Gua]

<P>  No I am sorry, I would NEVER want someone to represent me who has no experience with the issues I have. </P> <P>   The reason people vote for politicians is because of their views and expectations for things to get done for their benefit. You can deny it, lie about it, turn it any way you want, but people vote for their gain, not the whole. </P> <P>   Therefore, if someone is going to have weight in changing my gaming experience or my class, I want it to be someone who actually experiences the same things I do. Why would I want a monk, who has never played a guardian, and does not ever experience what i do daily, to reperesent me and affect my game play???</P> <P>   The fact is, no SOLE guardian experiences enough of the game daily to speak about it. If you are 50, you are not going through what a 25 guardian is going through. You may have months ago, but the game changes all the time. </P> <P>   If SoE has issues pertaining to guardians, post them here and allow ALL the guardians to make their opinions known. Then SoE can actually put in the leg work and decide for themselves the best thing to do.</P> <P>   A class representative is a horrible idea. We have a forum for a reason. You want to know about guardian issues Devs?? You want to know what bothers us?? Post a thread here and you will get your information. A middle man does nothing more then slow the flow of information and misconstrue the true intentions of the person(s) with the problems / issues. </P> <p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 PM</span>

[Belce]

I understand those points quite well and that is why I said it would be difficult, but in our society we also have trial by judge or jury.  In those cases you have a requirement to make an agrument they can accept without them actually being expert in your situation. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><edit below></DIV> <DIV>I see that you also agree with my thinking that it deflects angst from the game company and places it on the poor volunteer... </DIV><p>Message Edited by Belce on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:37 PM</span>

[RafaelSmith]

Class Representative is a bad idea....was bad idea in previous games and will be a bad idea in this one. Everyone plays the game differently and for different reasons... NOONE can represent all that and be fair.   I cant stand the concept of raiding...raiding sucks for me...but it doesnt for others.. just an example of why representative is just a stupid idea. <div></div>

[Nazo]

<P>uhoh so it is coming here as well...</P> <P> </P> <P>In EQ most class representatives were in high level raiding guids totally out of touch with 99% of the players of that class.</P>

[Amono]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR>I am huh?  Care to post some quotes from me where I declare myself the expert on tanking and guardians? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ya what he said, and not that I dont like Gage but he isn't a guardian, Though im sure his imput would be great for either his own class for fighter in general.

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>well i wouldnt want to be neccessarily the guardian guy, but at the same time i will quickly say that im one of the more vocal and open minded of the posters around here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont have an attatchment to any particular class...and understand the reality of the game outside of my personal pocket and the next guys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and i have a brutal knack for researching everything into the ground.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So while i honestly like Engllish's style for the Guardians, i would have to nominate myself for the bruiser community.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Otherwise it would be Jez, but then again, he has a very from the TOP on DOWN mentality about the game. Which can prove to cause a rift at times. (kind of like the high end raiding guild mentality)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im stuck in the middle and keep a tight handle on everyones experiences and personally i deal with people well when its a singular subject and im just relaying information and explaining POV's between different mediums of the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And consequently, placing me in a leadership position would unfortunately force me to tone it down in other parts of the forums where i have extravagent arguments with 3-5 posters at a time...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Works for me!</DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:20 PM</span>

[ugl]

<P>I do not like the idea of class reps either.   I do not like the devs bending to the will of whiners on messageboards.   But, that seems to be the way its going to work in this game.     They read a post, and they change it.   Someimes ater the change., they read another post and change it back.</P> <P>I think players running the game our having heavy influence on decisions i bad.   </P> <P> </P> <P>But, this game seems to bend at the will of the messageboards.   So I doubt anyone saying that player reps is a bad idea is going to get anywhere.   /shrugs</P>

[Mig]

<blockquote><hr>Nazowa wrote:<P>uhoh so it is coming here as well...</P> <P> </P> <P>In EQ most class representatives were in high level raiding guids totally out of touch with 99% of the players of that class.</P> <hr></blockquote>Amen. That's how we got omens of war. What this request really means is that, "We don't have the money/desire to hire a person to go through each board, consolidate issues, reproduce and validate them, and present them to development so we'd rather get the player base to do it for free."

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nazowa wrote:<p>uhoh so it is coming here as well...</p> <p>In EQ most class representatives were in high level raiding guids totally out of touch with 99% of the players of that class.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Aye,  The Devs are already out of touch with most of the players as it is.  Last thing we need is some ego driven Furor type getting into the Devs heads. </span><div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <DIV>well i wouldnt want to be neccessarily the guardian guy, but at the same time i will quickly say that im one of the more vocal and open minded of the posters around here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont have an attatchment to any particular class...and understand the reality of the game outside of my personal pocket and the next guys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and i have a brutal knack for researching everything into the ground.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So while i honestly like Engllish's style for the Guardians, i would have to nominate myself for the bruiser community.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Otherwise it would be Jez, but then again, he has a very from the TOP on DOWN mentality about the game. Which can prove to cause a rift at times. (kind of like the high end raiding guild mentality)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im stuck in the middle and keep a tight handle on everyones experiences and personally i deal with people well when its a singular subject and im just relaying information and explaining POV's between different mediums of the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And consequently, placing me in a leadership position would unfortunately force me to tone it down in other parts of the forums where i have extravagent arguments with 3-5 posters at a time...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Works for me!</DIV> <P>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <SPAN class=date_text>04-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>LoL!<BR>

[SageMarrow]

<P>does it scream ego loud enough gage?</P> <P>thats what i was aiming for...:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Oakwood]

Actually, SageMarrow usually posts well thought out comments in an appropriate tone.  I think if they were looking for a good Archetype rep, SageMarrow would be a very reasonable candidate. <DIV> </DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>yeah, but alot more post are not that pretty oak....</P> <P>Cause im usually over here in front of my monitor laughing while i post some of the crazy crap that i do.</P> <P>But when im trying to convey a point, yeah i can be serious and articulate a well developed and grammatically correct post.</P> <P>But thanks alot for the support either way. It wouldnt bother me one bit to be hated by 3/4 of the player base because the devs stink like poo...</P> <P>:smileywink:</P> <DIV>SO HOW ABOUT THAT DPS NERF ALL FIGHTERS GOT INC?</DIV>

[Ibis]

I vote for Mielx http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=144017 great rep for us, though I think he is a berserker. <div></div>

[Rah]

<P>/veto</P> <P> </P> <P>Rahge</P>

[Noah]

<DIV>what class am I again?</DIV>

[Swiller_Alesba]

<P>I think we are some kind of fighting class...you know, like a monk that wears cloth armor, or a brawler that fights in Ultimate Fighting Championship. Hell, at this point we may as well be Mario chasing mushrooms.</P> <P>EQ2 = Dead....for now at least.</P> <P>As far as Gage/Sage whomever, speaking on behalf of guardians......it's the same as at work when engineers design in the office, and when it's actually implemented in the field, turns out to be UNAPPLICABLE, but as I posted earlier, who really cares, EQ2 just doesn't have the attraction, depth, appeal or hook that a long term successful game has. </P>

[mastalynx]

<DIV>Ya no reps just ask in this part of the forum</DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<P>I just lurk here but it seems to me that both Noah and Tuna do alot to stand up for you guys both having a proven, consistent posting records over the last 5+ months.</P> <P>Although I abhor the idea of class reps with its concentration of power, it would seem that either (or both) of these guys would help take care to see your interests represented.</P>

[Subtlekni]

<span><blockquote><hr>CherobylJoe wrote:<p>I just lurk here but it seems to me that both Noah and Tuna do alot to stand up for you guys both having a proven, consistent posting records over the last 5+ months.</p> <p>Although I abhor the idea of class reps with its concentration of power, it would seem that either (or both) of these guys would help take care to see your interests represented.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>If we are going to have one, I'd rather we picked one than Sony or someone else. Tuna seems level enough.</span><div></div>

[CherobylJ]

Wow 1 star how harsh...ty someone :smileyvery-happy:

[Kell]

I am only a lurker here as well, but I have always found  Tunaboo and Noah to be "representative" of our class

[Xaviou]

<DIV>I'd have to say Tuna.</DIV>

[Sunrayn]

<P>I would have to say no to any representitive.</P> <P>If you are level 50 and in the raiding stage could you say with honesty that you care about the level 1-40 or so guards?</P> <P>If you are not level 50, can you say with honesty that you know what is wrong or not wrong with the end game?</P> <P>How many here think that the combat changes are coming because of the 1-49 game instead of the level 50 end game?</P> <P>No one person can represent the guardian class.</P>

[Subtlekni]

If sony is picking a rep, and there is no 100% sure suggestion that they are, the fact that some or even ALL guardians do not want a rep, is not going to stop them. Now, if they are going to pick one, and you can't stop them (and it is my strongly held belief that if they choose to pick one, saying, we will not play along isn't going to help) you might as well make it a good choice. Pre 50, 50, post 50. I'd rather have someone that at least understands some part of guardian well, than one that doesn't understand any part. ^^^^^^ | | | | | Restating the obvious, cause I guess it wasn't obvious to all.