who to protect?

[sjaste]

<DIV>ok my main is a ranger so do not read much on guardian forums; but my twink of an alt is level 24 guardian and I was wondering who we should cast our intervene and such spells on. </DIV> <DIV>please help out a fellow guardian</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sjastein wrote:<BR> <DIV>ok my main is a ranger so do not read much on guardian forums; but my twink of an alt is level 24 guardian and I was wondering who we should cast our intervene and such spells on. </DIV> <DIV>please help out a fellow guardian</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I usually cast them on the main healer.    If you have a good healer that manages his aggro well, I will sometimes cast it on the biggest DPS in the party.</P> <P>Then again I forget to even use them sometimes.  :smileysurprised:</P> <P> </P>

[Pin StNeedl]

<DIV>Just take them off your quickbar.</DIV>

[Banditman]

Intervene can make things worse instead of better in many instances. Read the description carefully.  You aren't taking away all the damage the caster would receive.  By using Intervene, your group are actually taking a total of MORE damage than the mob alone is capable of dishing out. <div></div>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR> <DIV>Just take them off your quickbar.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hear, Hear. A waste of a slot.

[tsaav]

never surrender is the only one you should ever use. <div></div>

[sjaste]

What about the enchanters they seem to drag a lot of argo? and is soldiers stance worth using?

[lazlo1]

<div></div>I never cast any of our protection spells or stance spells.  They long ago dropped off my quickbar.  Never surrender may be ok, but I havent used it.  Unless im missing something our stance line and protection line seem useless. This is a bummer since the protection line should be a class defining line for guardians. <div></div><p>Message Edited by lazlo1 on <span class=date_text>04-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:15 PM</span>

[Oakwood]

<P>The idea behind protection is damage is relative.  You can spend 80 hp to save the target 50 hp per 100 points hit.  yes, that is more total damage, but if you have more than twice the hp of the chanter, the 80 hp doesnt hit you as hard as the 50 would hit him.  Also, the healer is watching you.  You probably have a reactive, ward or regen already on, which will soak the damage.  The chanter doesnt, so he would take the full brunt of the damage, makeing it that much worse in relative terms.</P> <P>Is it worth it?  That you have to answer for yourself.  Situationally, it can save the day.  If i get hit for 800 damage out of my 3000 hitpoints, most of which is soaked by reactive/ward/regen, to turn a 1000 point hit into a 500 point hit on the the chanter with 1200 hitpoints, is that good or bad?  Depends on if you need the chanter to live.  The extra few seconds of life I bought him may be what he needed to get the add under control, for the healer to throw some loving his way, or for me to regain aggro.</P> <P>I wouldn't use it on a mob that hits hard enough that the damage would risk killing me outright, but since the hit is mitigated 20% on intervene, or 50ish% on a direct hit to my face, if it is hitting that hard I wouldnt survive more than a few hits as the tank anyway.</P> <P>Do they work as well as we would like them to?  Would better damage reduction make them more usefull?  The protect skills have a purpose, you just have to know where to use them.</P>

[lazlo1]

Oakwood I agree in theory to what you are saying. Mitigation is not the main problem I have with our protection spells. Trying the pick the person who is gona get agro before combat is a crap shoot at best. If the same person keeps getting agro then that problem should be addressed. Casting during combat also seems useless.  I found you are much better off using taunts/hits/buffs to regain agro. And for the rare save the day case use rescue. Those issues combined with questionable mitigaion make them more hassle than they are worth IMHO.  As for the stance line its defensive component does not stack with our group defensive buffs. Without defense they are marginal at best. <div></div>

[sjaste]

<P>OK as I see it at level 24 I got 4 spells that help to protect other people in the group. Here they are and their descriptions at app iv:-</P> <P>Intervene - 50% chance to take 75% of damage from target while target takes 60% of damage. (Has been shortened)</P> <P>Stand firm - increases avoidences of target by 22%</P> <P>Allay - Increases advoidence on target by 26%</P> <P>Sentinel - 50% chance to intercept caster take 81% of damage, target takes 0% of attack damage.</P> <P>Only intervene seems to have a down side and that is that it add 35% of normal damage into the combat for the mobs but our armour should be able to handle 15% more than the caster has to take and we got more HP to top it off.</P>

[Oakwood]

<P>You are correct Iazlo about casting in combat is useless.  The time would be better spent trying to regain aggro.  The suggestion of using rescue would be great if that skill worked as described, but the threat position portion of the skill has no effect, making it the same as using any other taunt.</P> <P>But you do not have to pick the person who will <EM>gain agro</EM> before the fight.  You need to pick the person whose <EM>death will wipe the party</EM>, even if you do not expect them to gain agro (in fact the less they get aggro the better).  This usually means the healer or chanter.  If your wizard or assasin regularly gets agro, let them die untill they learn how to manage it.  But healers usually do not get to tell the mob to stop hitting you for a moment so they don't over aggro.  When the fit hits the shan and the cleric needs to overheal like mad and gets aggro, or a pile of adds wander by and lock on the chanter because of all the power regen he has going on the party, intervene may save the day (or it may not, the target still takes 50% of the damage).</P> <P>Again, it is very situational, not a skill you want to just use on any random player.  There are times to use it, and times to leave it unused.</P>

[lazlo1]

I guess we will have to disagree. I find the entire line to be crap, not worth the blue to cast and not worth a slot on my quickbar.  I used them for many lvls and never once did I see it make a difference. In a good group its useless, in a bad group you are gona die anyway. <div></div>

[Oakwood]

<P>Mine isn't in the quickbar, but it is on the first page of my knowledge book along with master rages and other things i need only once in a while.  On the off chance I want it, I just hit "K" and click it.  As for the concentration, I don't use the concentration on anything else.  Allay takes 2, intervene takes 2, that leaves one open.  Stances don't stack with our other buffs, so I don't use concentration for that.</P> <P>It is really not a big deal either way. No one is going to kick you from a group if you don't use it.  Heck, if it doesnt end up saving the day in some dramatic way, no one will know if you do use it.  Even the target will probably not notice the buff icon in the middle of the stack other buffs.  It is a small risk for an equally small reward with no significant cost other than a few seconds to hit a key on keyboard and click an icon.</P> <P>/shrug</P>

[sjaste]

<P>Ok first off Allay takes 1 concentration.</P> <P>Now to the main point as of far I have when MT mainly been spreding my protection buffs around the main argo pullers MHer and chanter I often group with a monk so the other will be intevened too. </P> <P>When not main tank I will use them mostly on the MT and 1 on the person getting argo all the time. I see this as rather effective when the MH gets an interrupt we can take some damage so the MT doesn't die so fast and increase their advoidance by about 48% meaning less hits to the MT in the first place. </P> <P>I started this thread to see what ya thought I already had my ideas but they were indeed changeable.</P> <P>P.S. Oakwoods idea of keeping some on the first page of K is a good one but I would only sugest the one that stay on target untill you change your mind for one reason or the other.</P> <p>Message Edited by sjastein on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:20 PM</span>

[Ibis]

only use never surrender and perhaps vigilance.  allay as well, but surrender is the upgrade to it. <div></div>