Bye Gage

[AsheM]

<DIV>Goodbye Gage,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll miss you least of all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the implementation of Station Exchange, I've cancelled my accounts.  Another 50 guardian bites the dust.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[FamilyManFir]

Okay, I really shouldn't feed the troll but ...Why?Station Exchange won't affect me, I won't play on an SE server. Don't play on one yourself and it won't affect you. So why would you (or anyone) quit over it?

[Ashtaro]

Because SOE is a bunch of farkin hypocrites.

[FamilyManFir]

How so? A hypocrite is someone who says one thing while doing another at the same time. An example would be someone who loudly decries stealing while shoplifting behind his back.While SOE may have made statements in the past that selling plat, items, or chars for RL money is against their policy and will not be tolerated under any circumstances, they are now announcing, loudly, that they have changed their mind. They're going to allow such transactions under specific, limited circumstances and on specific servers; they've explained exactly what those circumstances and servers are; they've stated that they will not tolerate such behavior on non-SE servers. How does this equate to hypocrisy?

[Moontayle]

More to the point, they are <EM>still</EM> saying that the buying and selling of plat and items will still be a bannable offense on a vast majority of servers. What they're also saying now is, "Hey, we can't completely get rid of it, so we might as well try and keep it controllable. At least with us you can be certain you're not going to be ripped off." <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think this is a subpar reason to quit the game. I could understand if you're just not having fun or SOE did something that removed your overall enjoyment from the game, but quitting because they're opening up two BRAND NEW servers with this feature enabled. That's like saying you're going to quit listening to your favorite radio station because they're going to start selling singles on their website for a buck.</DIV>

[Fafnir]

If marijuana was suddenly legalised in real life, would you commit suicide?

[benba]

<P>Rumor has it that he tried to committ sucidie after Nevada legalized prostitution in certain county.</P> <P>His Grandpappie killed himself after prohibition was lifted.</P> <P> </P>

[benba]

<DIV>translation "I'm going to Station Exchange my lvl 50 Guardian and get some bling bling!"</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>its a matter of moral principle and bastardization of the genre.</P> <P>You dont build a game intricately around time sinks for the *good of the game* and then make a way to totally negate those time sinks and the effort it took to aquire them (items/weapons/etc)</P> <P>It is an endearing topic, and believe it or not, alot of MMO's that dont adopt the policy will get the players that think its immoral and negates the spirit of the game.</P> <P>WoW will more than likely adopt it. Especially because they are losing the largest amount of money and in game stability because of it. </P> <P>But the NEWER games will have a tough choice to make. And the stand of the people behind them will greatly effect thier stand innately.</P> <P>Asheman... I understand you totally brother. God speed.</P> <P> </P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>honestly the best thing that EQ2 can do is boost the leveling speed to that of WoW....</P> <P>That way they win in every way possible. Allow players to get the most out of the system and make the most money for themselves.. and make life a bit easier on grinders like myself...</P> <P>(lol) giving them advice...riiigghhht.</P>

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<p>its a matter of moral principle and bastardization of the genre.</p> <p>You dont build a game intricately around time sinks for the *good of the game* and then make a way to totally negate those time sinks and the effort it took to aquire them (items/weapons/etc)</p><hr></blockquote> How bout this: They moved the time sink out of the game, and into the real world.  If you get paid $10 an hour, and you buy a $100 item, you've gone through a 10 hour time sink to get it.  We just call it "a job" instead of a timesink. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Nobol]

Its pretty clear now, the Genre is dead, its just turned into a pile of garbage over years.

[Moontayle]

Don't tell me you didn't see the writing on the wall with this one. Hell, Furor made a post about it on his message boards over a year ago. It's too bad he's chained by Blizzard or we'd be getting a very nice 'I told you so' from that camp right about now. As it stands, he did and now here we are.

[Uumuuanu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AsheMan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Goodbye Gage,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll miss you least of all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the implementation of Station Exchange, I've cancelled my accounts.  Another 50 guardian bites the dust.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sony please make sure people who have cancelled accounts can't post to the forums.   </P> <P> </P> <P>Oh yeah, and put his stuff up for sale on Exchange.</P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<P>its a matter of moral principle and bastardization of the genre.</P> <P>You dont build a game intricately around time sinks for the *good of the game* and then make a way to totally negate those time sinks and the effort it took to aquire them (items/weapons/etc)</P> <P>It is an endearing topic, and believe it or not, alot of MMO's that dont adopt the policy will get the players that think its immoral and negates the spirit of the game.</P> <P>WoW will more than likely adopt it. Especially because they are losing the largest amount of money and in game stability because of it. </P> <P>But the NEWER games will have a tough choice to make. And the stand of the people behind them will greatly effect thier stand innately.</P> <P>Asheman... I understand you totally brother. God speed.</P> <P> </P> <hr></blockquote>What moral principle is being violated? How is the game being bastardized by SE when it'll only be on a select few servers?Sage, your statement implies that SE will be on <i>all</i> servers. It'll be on a few servers (I saw the number two being bantered around somewhere), no more. If you feel that EQII was built "intricately around time sinks for the *good of the game*" (something that I don't agree with, btw) and that it will be ruined by SE, don't play on those servers. Voila! the game is un-ruined.It just seems silly to quit a game over something that <b>won't affect you</b> if you don't want it to. The worst that will happen is that some of your online friends or guildies will migrate to SE servers ... and if you loathe the idea of SE and they like it, did you really want to be playing with them in the first place? What are the odds that those people were buying from the grey market anyway?

[Swiller_Alesba]

<P>If you think this move won't affect you because they aren't allowing it on your server....you're smoking crack....or lead paint chips...or....something. It's the principal of it all. SOE is whoring themselves and EQ2 out because they cannot combat the massive slave labor IGE and other ilk is hiring from China to farm EQ2.</P> <P>Hmm...what's the weekly wage in China? And I get what for playing a video game? Yet another form of human slave trade......this time it's just cyber-slavery. And you all got down on people for hiring children in other countries to make clothes?</P> <DIV> </DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FamilyManFirst wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>What moral principle is being violated? How is the game being bastardized by SE when it'll only be on a select few servers?<BR><BR>Sage, your statement implies that SE will be on <I>all</I> servers. It'll be on a few servers (I saw the number two being bantered around somewhere), no more. If you feel that EQII was built "intricately around time sinks for the *good of the game*" (something that I don't agree with, btw) and that it will be ruined by SE, don't play on those servers. Voila! the game is un-ruined.<BR><BR>It just seems silly to quit a game over something that <B>won't affect you</B> if you don't want it to. The worst that will happen is that some of your online friends or guildies will migrate to SE servers ... and if you loathe the idea of SE and they like it, did you really want to be playing with them in the first place? What are the odds that those people were buying from the grey market anyway?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Family..I dont believe it will stay on select servers for very long.  I see your point but I think alot of us have alot less faith that a Chinese Wall will be maintained between server types.  Especially from a firm that cant even keep spell descrptions up to date.</P> <P>The other issue that rankles me is the fact they have been so sanctimonious about power leveling-twinking-IGE-EBAY etc all for the 6+ years I have been playing their games (lets not even get into EULA and player agreements over Beta functionality) but then they decide that if THEY do it legitimately well tahts ok.  Sorry thats just a quitter attitude by SOE ("its too hard to fight EBAY we give up") and not worthy my admiration in the slightest.</P> <P>I agree though...people who quit over this without fighting are just being weenies.  Go to the part of the EQ2 forums dedictaed to feedback on the issue and make your opinion known and then keep pushing if you are against this.  The OP is quitting w.o fighting...I can imagine the Guard place is the *wrong* place to act liek that!<BR></P>

[Ashtaro]

Nope, sorry, uh uh.  You don't preach to me for 6 years about the evils of adultery and then cheat on your spouse and say you were only kidding.  Thats hypocrisy, and does not require a simultaneous timeframe.  You can't 180 overnight after a 6 year precedent and get away with it.

[SageMarrow]

<P>Family, this system is going to bleed over onto the regular servers in SOME WAY... how i cant be precise about. But trust me, players that dont go in the initial move will begin paying a NOMINAL fee to move at a later date...</P> <P>watch and see.... The players who dont go right away... will just flip flop back and forth.. PL a character on a regular server = </P> <P>Its going to effect the regular servers in some way... they will figure out a scheme to make this work. it didnt take long for them to figure out the botting/farming/ebaying/trasfering did they?</P> <P>what makes you think both sides wont optimize this situation?</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>P.S. Ummaaannnuuuuu, or however you spell that jibberish, SHUT UP...</P> <P> </P>

[Curati]

<P>Gage, you sound like an idiot by posting what you did.. im sure you're probably not an idiot.</P> <P>If  you cancel you account of this that is fine..but honestly how does anything with the exchange server effect you as a player? They already said it will only be on special servers. Soooo as long as you not on that server, the subject of exchange servis realy is moot...it is moot to me. Unless they turn Mistmoore into such a server it wont efect how I play at all. I enjoy the hell out of being a guardian. I dont care how long it takes me to level. I play my character as a guardian not as a guy playing some computer game...if that makse any sense</P> <P> </P> <P>I see you as one of those people that if we have an earthquake you would declare the world at an end.</P> <P>sounds to me like you were leaving anyway please dont make these pitifull excuses.<BR>Excuses are for people that think that people actually give a crap LOL</P> <P> </P> <P>Happy Friday</P>

[SageMarrow]

<P>well curative - that  the REAL reason he is leaving. In essence it effects his dignity as a person and as a player- if thats not your perspective, then thats YOU.. not him.</P> <P>Leave him with his morals, its actually admirable to take a stand in the only way that matters. In a hostage situation the only way to take a stand is to take your own life right? Thats the only way to take a stand for what you believe that really matters.</P> <P>In this party = its taking a stand against what you believe is wrong to the extent that you can. And no amount of ranting and raving will do it on the forums, the only real way to do it is to take away the only thing that matters to SOE... the cash.</P> <P>so IMO= he is right  = and should be respected for his decision, even if it does not co inside with your own</P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>CherobylJoe wrote:<P>Family..I dont believe it will stay on select servers for very long. I see your point but I think alot of us have alot less faith that a Chinese Wall will be maintained between server types. Especially from a firm that cant even keep spell descrptions up to date.</P> <P>The other issue that rankles me is the fact they have been so sanctimonious about power leveling-twinking-IGE-EBAY etc all for the 6+ years I have been playing their games (lets not even get into EULA and player agreements over Beta functionality) but then they decide that if THEY do it legitimately well tahts ok. Sorry thats just a quitter attitude by SOE ("its too hard to fight EBAY we give up") and not worthy my admiration in the slightest.</P> <P>I agree though...people who quit over this without fighting are just being weenies. Go to the part of the EQ2 forums dedictaed to feedback on the issue and make your opinion known and then keep pushing if you are against this. The OP is quitting w.o fighting...I can imagine the Guard place is the *wrong* place to act liek that!<BR></P> <hr></blockquote>Well, if the Chinese Wall drops, or becomes permeable somehow, then the OP would have a legitimate complaint and, if his concerns were not addressed, would be justified in cancelling his account(s). As it is, however, he isn't even waiting, he's cancelling <i>before</i> he sees what is done, how it's done, and what results occur, expected or unexpected.FWIW, SOE is claiming (true or not) that they're not doing this because "it's too hard to fight EBAY," but because a significant segment of their customers want it.I'm not worried about it because I don't see much difficulty in keeping the two "rulesets" separated. It looks a lot to me like RP vs. PvP vs. PvE servers; there's no "bleedover" between those. Finally, it looks like SOE is, indeed, listening to all the posters and acknowledging and finding ways to deal with legitimate points being brought up.As long as their careful, it's no skin off my nose, nor anybody else's who doesn't want to play that way.

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>Ashtaroth wrote:Nope, sorry, uh uh. You don't preach to me for 6 years about the evils of adultery and then cheat on your spouse and say you were only kidding. Thats hypocrisy, and does not require a simultaneous timeframe. You can't 180 overnight after a 6 year precedent and get away with it.<hr></blockquote>No, but you can preach the evils of adultery for 6 years, then <b>loudly proclaim</b> that you've changed your mind, deal with the outraged spouse (or maybe not outraged, depends on the spouse) as well as any outraged friends and/or acquaintances, then commit adultery (or not, if the spouse has left!) and not be a hypocrite. You might be considered other bad things, but not a hypocrite. By declaring your change of mind and dealing with the consequences you have kept that facet of your integrity intact.

[Dalthenn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AsheMan wrote:<div>Goodbye Gage,</div> <div> </div> <div>I'll miss you least of all.</div> <div> </div> <div>With the implementation of Station Exchange, I've cancelled my accounts. Another 50 guardian bites the dust.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote> Hmm....how does that affect your character's ability to tank or play the game? *shrug* Goodbye and good luck finding a game that pleases you.

[Curati]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>well curative - that  the REAL reason he is leaving. In essence it effects his dignity as a person and as a player- if thats not your perspective, then thats YOU.. not him.</P> <P>Leave him with his morals, its actually admirable to take a stand in the only way that matters. In a hostage situation the only way to take a stand is to take your own life right? Thats the only way to take a stand for what you believe that really matters.</P> <P>In this party = its taking a stand against what you believe is wrong to the extent that you can. And no amount of ranting and raving will do it on the forums, the only real way to do it is to take away the only thing that matters to SOE... the cash.</P> <P>so IMO= he is right  = and should be respected for his decision, even if it does not co inside with your own</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ummm... What stand... I still fail to see how the Echange Service will effect your guardian?</DIV> <DIV>I dont know...its just wierd man! </DIV> <DIV>And i DO respect your opinion... otherwise I would have just said Buh-bye or not posted at all.<BR>I have read nothing but usless ranting and raving of folks about this Exchange Service when its not going to affect people who dont want to take part.</DIV>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<P>Family, this system is going to bleed over onto the regular servers in SOME WAY... how i cant be precise about. But trust me, players that dont go in the initial move will begin paying a NOMINAL fee to move at a later date...</P> <P>watch and see.... The players who dont go right away... will just flip flop back and forth.. PL a character on a regular server = </P> <P>Its going to effect the regular servers in some way... they will figure out a scheme to make this work. it didnt take long for them to figure out the botting/farming/ebaying/trasfering did they?</P> <P>what makes you think both sides wont optimize this situation?</P> <hr></blockquote>Sage, if you can't figure out a specific way that this will "bleed over" then you're just blowing paranoid smoke. I can think of several ways that this could bleed over ... and SOE is taking steps to prevent each one.They won't permit "flip flop" transfers; you get one chance to move, one-way, from a non-SE server to an SE server and that's it. SE chars won't be allowed to move to non-SE servers at all, ever. SOE is planning on doing something to prevent non-SE chars from hauling loot over to SE servers on a regular basis; whether that's by halting moves after an initial startup period or by only allowing naked transfers after the startup period or by what is still under discussion, but they're going to do something.The only way this will affect the regular servers is by siphoning chars away from them onto the SE servers, and I just don't see that as a bad thing.Sure, someone might get clever and find a way to exploit the system, but that's a risk with or without an SE ruleset. You find the hole and plug it and move on.If you have any ideas on other ways the "Chinese Wall" could become permeable then speak up and SOE will listen and deal with it. However, SOE's bottom line depends on happy customers; if they let SE "bleed" over into non-SE servers they recognise that players will quit in droves. It's not in their own best interest, so it won't happen.

[Dalthenn]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>FamilyManFirst wrote:<blockquote><hr>Ashtaroth wrote:Nope, sorry, uh uh. You don't preach to me for 6 years about the evils of adultery and then cheat on your spouse and say you were only kidding. Thats hypocrisy, and does not require a simultaneous timeframe. You can't 180 overnight after a 6 year precedent and get away with it.<hr></blockquote>No, but you can preach the evils of adultery for 6 years, then <b>loudly proclaim</b> that you've changed your mind, deal with the outraged spouse (or maybe not outraged, depends on the spouse) as well as any outraged friends and/or acquaintances, then commit adultery (or not, if the spouse has left!) and not be a hypocrite. You might be considered other bad things, but not a hypocrite. By declaring your change of mind and dealing with the consequences you have kept that facet of your integrity intact.<hr></blockquote> All you people need to understand that SOE is a business with a product - EQ, EQ2, Planet Side, SWG, etc, etc. They're in the business of 1.  <font color="#ffff00">making money and pleasing their investors</font> and 2. keeping a player base large enough to meet their primary objective, which is 1. You heard what the man said: <font color="#ff3300">"We've done a fair amount of homework on this subject, and we believe this is a $200 million dollar market worldwide business"</font> that they have not 'explored' and now they want a piece of the cake in order  to meet their primary objective - <font color="#ffff00">making money and pleasing their investors.<font color="#ffffff"> People, realize that it's all about the business of making money, so SOE will do anything to increase profitabilty and revenue while keeping a good solid player base that is somewhat happy and willing to keep paying $15.00 a month to play their games. I don't think you'll find one single large business or corporation that has 'integrity and is not hypocrite'; as long as you have investors to please and a revenue target that you must meet, guess what...they will change their mind! It's reality and you all have to realize it, stop living in the fantasy world of Norrath for once.</font></font><p>Message Edited by Dalthenn on <span class=date_text>04-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 PM</span>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<P>well curative - that the REAL reason he is leaving. In essence it effects his dignity as a person and as a player- if thats not your perspective, then thats YOU.. not him.</P> <P>Leave him with his morals, its actually admirable to take a stand in the only way that matters. In a hostage situation the only way to take a stand is to take your own life right? Thats the only way to take a stand for what you believe that really matters.</P> <P>In this party = its taking a stand against what you believe is wrong to the extent that you can. And no amount of ranting and raving will do it on the forums, the only real way to do it is to take away the only thing that matters to SOE... the cash.</P> <P>so IMO= he is right = and should be respected for his decision, even if it does not co inside with your own</P> <hr></blockquote>Sage, I'll give you this much, if the OP really feels that strongly then cancelling his account(s) was the right thing to do. I completely disagree with his premise, reasoning, and conclusions; however, he has certainly taken a stand, rightly or wrongly, and acted on his convictions. I'll respect him for that.

[SageMarrow]

<P>Well family man - we know you can split numbers, crunch numbers, and that you are a general fan of this game without question.. that much is obvious.</P> <P>But i will say this: simply put...</P> <P>This is a scheme to make money...or maximize profits as some would say.</P> <P>It just leaves a sting in your heart in the sense of the genre man. Just imagine going play PnP D&D with a bunch of power gamers that are just trying to level and you are a major Roleplay fan...</P> <P>It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth that people really do that. In essence (as i said) bastardize what the game was meant for.</P> <P>The saving grace of MMO's was the communion of players from all walks of life and allowing them to have that PnP feeling in an online virtual world where their time, effort, actions - all mattered and those benefits could be seen.</P> <P>Now i fit that mold in alot of ways... and in some i dont. Im hardcore with PnP roots. i want to be the best and all the character that my 21 bucks a month can buy me alongside the communion with other players and role play factors.</P> <P>And thats just me, and it would pretty much fit players like myself and gage and Noah... and the list goes on. I have an emotional attatchment to my character but im also not soooo enraptured as to cry as i cancel my account. Does that split make sense? its a personal thing really. Its actually how i am in RL. Perfectionist with high standards.... </P> <P>(bad combination really)</P> <P>But i say all that to say this, while it doesnt bother me a whole lot, mainly because i dont plan on playing this game past 8-15-05. I really feel the same way that asheman does. And need something to fill my RL downtime... and it just so happens that EQ2 is just that</P>

[FamilyManFir]

Well, Sage, of course it's a scheme to make money. That's true of <i>any</i> MMORPG, not to mention any computer game or practically any other product out there for sale.However, SOE has to be careful what they do to get their money or they'll kill the goose that lays the golden egg. It so happens that the best way for SOE to make money, in the long term, is to build a great game and keep it great.That doesn't mean that SOE won't come up with some crazy half-cocked idea and mess things up a bit, but it does give them lots of motivation to keep the game as good as they can and to fix anything they <i>do</i> wreck just as soon as possible.SOE believes that there's a significant portion of their playerbase who would really like to play with an SE service available. If they figure that they can cater to that segment, without affecting the game for the rest of their playerbase, then naturally they'll do it. If they get a little cut of any transactions made, all the better. However, the majority of their playerbase doesn't like it and doesn't want it. If they allow the SE service to "pollute" the non-SE servers then they'll lose more of their playerbase than they'll gain or keep with the SE servers, thus "killing the goose." They know that, so they'll work very hard to keep a Chinese Wall between the servers.If they fail, or if they allow their greed to obscure their own best interest, that of making and maintaining a great game, then I'll be gone in a flash. However, I'm fairly confident that they won't. They could surprise me, of course, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they do.

[Nemi]

<P>MMORPGs are special because they reward you and differentiate you in a virtual world by YOUR OWN actions. Station Exchange, IGE and Ebay are all cancers to the genre. Imagine you could buy a god_mode for the game...how long would you play and maintain your interest?</P> <P>While cloaked in nice 'Customer desires first' PR, Station Exchance is momentous because it sets a dangerous precedent for future MMORPGs. I see it as a nail in the genre's coffin. If this becomes mainstream then 5 years time, there won't be a MMORPG that doesn't have the ability to buy your progress in the game, meaning that it will become the norm to have to pay extra to be involved in the game.</P> <P>Its often the subtle, small changes that prove to be turning points. Station Exchange is one of them.</P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>Nemi wrote: <P>MMORPGs are special because they reward you and differentiate you in a virtual world by YOUR OWN actions. Station Exchange, IGE and Ebay are all cancers to the genre. Imagine you could buy a god_mode for the game...how long would you play and maintain your interest?</P> <P>While cloaked in nice 'Customer desires first' PR, Station Exchance is momentous because it sets a dangerous precedent for future MMORPGs. I see it as a nail in the genre's coffin. If this becomes mainstream then 5 years time, there won't be a MMORPG that doesn't have the ability to buy your progress in the game, meaning that it will become the norm to have to pay extra to be involved in the game.</P> <P>Its often the subtle, small changes that prove to be turning points. Station Exchange is one of them.</P><hr></blockquote>Well, Nemi, you may be right. I sure as heck don't know. I suspect, though, that there are enough players, a majority of them in fact, who will outright reject this kind of situation. In that case, any MMORPG who doesn't provide a "sales-free" set of servers will die a quick death.Who knows? In the meantime, however, I don't expect EQII to suffer. The playerbase has made it clear, here, that they do NOT want SE on all servers; if SOE expects to implement it, they'd better keep it limited. I expect they will.

[SomeDudeCRO]

DAMNIT THIS IS ALL GAGE'S FAULT!  <span> <span></span> <span>:smileysurprised:</span></span><div></div>

[Aethane]

Avoidance nerfs whatever , it's all moot to me now. I'm cancelling as well. I won't give my money to ANY company that condones the sale of ingame items or money, period. It's cheating at it's absolute worst. Yep, you heard me right, it's cheating any way you slice it. I will not ever play a game where the only real way to get ahead is to have a real life fat wallet. They can mask it however they want to really, to me this is just their way of admitting that those 700 accounts they banned were more important to them than the honest players. This is their way of trying to have their cake and eat it too. Well let them eat cake cause i'm out of here. I never thought in a million years SOE would stoop to this.

[blueduckie]

<DIV>Some of your points are ridiculous. Hello /wave yantis. Fool sells so much plat toons and items in online games already.  This is a good thing if people who bought junk actually went to those servers. Even if they dont what does it matter. Top items in time will all become no trade any way and unable to be sold id imagine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look at EQ1, they made an entire server with all items becomming droppable, did not leak over etc. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] does it matter anyway. Are your groups gonna be destroyed if someone bought an item instead of person who got it wearing it? Are your guilds gonna suddenly suck [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Its the people who buy the stuff that are whoring themselves out. It isnt gonna hardly change a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing. If you think it is wrong or immorall i think you got some whack priorities. Is there like an 11th commandment i missed? Thou shout not make money seperatin plat/item buying hippies from the rest? Get over your righteous [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and play the [Removed for Content] game or dont.</DIV>

[Aethane]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blueduckie wrote:<BR> <DIV>Some of your points are ridiculous. Hello /wave yantis. Fool sells so much plat toons and items in online games already.  This is a good thing if people who bought junk actually went to those servers. Even if they dont what does it matter. Top items in time will all become no trade any way and unable to be sold id imagine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look at EQ1, they made an entire server with all items becomming droppable, did not leak over etc. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] does it matter anyway. Are your groups gonna be destroyed if someone bought an item instead of person who got it wearing it? Are your guilds gonna suddenly suck [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Its the people who buy the stuff that are whoring themselves out. It isnt gonna hardly change a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing. If you think it is wrong or immorall i think you got some whack priorities. Is there like an 11th commandment i missed? Thou shout not make money seperatin plat/item buying hippies from the rest? Get over your righteous [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and play the [Removed for Content] game or dont.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yep it's called cheating. Buying your way to uberdom in a game is cheating, it's no different than if they added in cheat codes. Why people even do it is beyond me. What feeling of accomplishment do they get from it?</P> <P>And yes my groups would be destroyed by this. People that buy their way usually SUCK. I've seen it a million times. Noob buys account/items to equal out to those who actually worked their way to the top then progresses to joining groups/raids and shows his true noob colors. No thanks, been there done that.</P> <P>It is immoral, it is cheating. The purpose to playing a game or sport is the competition, challenge and sense of accomplishment. You gain none of those things buy buying your way through the game. I don't pay my money per month to play a game with losers that cheat. Yes the cheaters have always been around but i firmly beleived their ill gotten gains would eventually catch up with them because I truly believed SOE would never condone it.</P> <P>Just like real life, once you legalize something it suddenly becomes morally correct and the norm. The fact SOE is now condoning and facilitating such things means they will become the norm. Most folks you run into will feel quite free about buying items/accounts. The spirit of the game is destroyed by this action.</P> <P>So it's my money pal, i will not tolerate cheaters and I will not play with them. SOE got their last money from me. Quite frankly i'd rather play a single player game than deal with a company that condones and facilitates cheating.</P>

[Gaige]

<P>Goodbye.</P> <P>Although, I don't really know why this thread is addressed to me.</P>

[Natak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aethane wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Yep it's called cheating. Buying your way to uberdom in a game is cheating, it's no different than if they added in cheat codes. Why people even do it is beyond me. What feeling of accomplishment do they get from it?</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And yes my groups would be destroyed by this. People that buy their way usually SUCK. I've seen it a million times. Noob buys account/items to equal out to those who actually worked their way to the top then progresses to joining groups/raids and shows his true noob colors. No thanks, been there done that.</P> <P>It is immoral, it is cheating. The purpose to playing a game or sport is the competition, challenge and sense of accomplishment. You gain none of those things buy buying your way through the game. I don't pay my money per month to play a game with losers that cheat. Yes the cheaters have always been around but i firmly beleived their ill gotten gains would eventually catch up with them because I truly believed SOE would never condone it.</P> <P>Just like real life, once you legalize something it suddenly becomes morally correct and the norm. The fact SOE is now condoning and facilitating such things means they will become the norm. Most folks you run into will feel quite free about buying items/accounts. The spirit of the game is destroyed by this action.</P> <P>So it's my money pal, i will not tolerate cheaters and I will not play with them. SOE got their last money from me. Quite frankly i'd rather play a single player game than deal with a company that condones and facilitates cheating.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So, if they "bought" thier gear with plat instead of dollars, it wouldn't be cheating in your eyes?<BR>

[Natak]

<P>doublepostedededed</P><p>Message Edited by Natak on <span class=date_text>04-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 AM</span>

[Napolle]

cya.. even thouigh exhcange dont effect us.. <div></div>

[Nemi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Napolleon wrote:<BR>cya.. even thouigh exhcange dont effect us..<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its a short-sighted view that it doesnt affect you. It's one of the reasons politics sucks, because most people don't remember what happened 4 years ago and can't think what will happen in 4 years time.</P> <P>Station Exchange is a MOMENTOUS event for MMORPGs. It sets a precedent for all future MMORPGs and takes us down a path I believe will firmly destroy the genre.</P>

[ugl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AsheMan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Goodbye Gage,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll miss you least of all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the implementation of Station Exchange, I've cancelled my accounts.  Another 50 guardian bites the dust.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thank you.  Its guys like you that got them to backtrack on their initial "announcement" and make these new agreements with the community.   Nice work.

[blueduckie]

<DIV>You're more likely to see less toon-account-bought noobs on servers if they actually do this than if they dont. People who already buy and like on regular servers are going to do it no matter what. People already do this are some of you blind to that? If you think this will leak over to other servers or in 4 years will totally be the route of the game you are oblivious. Hello it is already here. It is already bought all over. It isnt going to be the norm because the players who already dont buy stuff arnt going to suddenly say. Hey i plan on buying a bunch of stuff just because SoE says i can. If they wanted to buy the stuff they already would. I cant believe some of the reasoning behind some of these posts. Act so paranoid IMHO. Least in this did not have a whole bunch of people hacking up to max lvl and hacking items in game like WoW has. Whether they do it or not it will only effect you if you let it by playing on one of those servers. Personally if it attracted people who already buy and sell junk to those servers im all for it. Nothing more annoying on EQ1 than having to keep track of ebay'd players  while keeping  your guild roster up.</DIV>

[Ashtaro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FamilyManFirst wrote:<BR><BR>No, but you can preach the evils of adultery for 6 years, then <B>loudly proclaim</B> that you've changed your mind, deal with the outraged spouse (or maybe not outraged, depends on the spouse) as well as any outraged friends and/or acquaintances, then commit adultery (or not, if the spouse has left!) and not be a hypocrite. You might be considered other bad things, but not a hypocrite. By declaring your change of mind and dealing with the consequences you have kept that facet of your integrity intact.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>They 'did the deed' imo, when they developed the infrastructure for this, starting about a year ago.  But whatever, im done splitting hairs with semantics with you.  Fine, they're "other bad things," whatever.  I think buying items with real life cash is wrong, and I would think that even if I wasn't playing the game, let alone a different server.  I refuse to financially support a company that not only condones but actually engages in this practice.  Further justification of my feelings to SAK's is not required.  Good day.

[Moontayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aethane wrote:<BR> <P>Just like real life, once you legalize something it suddenly becomes morally correct and the norm. The fact SOE is now condoning and facilitating such things means they will become the norm. Most folks you run into will feel quite free about buying items/accounts. The spirit of the game is destroyed by this action.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Just as a matter of point, they're drawing lines in the sand here. Every server on THIS side of the line (20+ at last count) is one where they will continue to fight and battle the 'cheaters' or at least the ones that make it a $200 million dollar industry in the first place. Every server on THAT side of the line (2 so far and still a couple months from being Live), will allow cheating but you have to do it by SOE rules.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sort of like how Prostitution is legal in Las Vegas, but illegal in Los Angelas.</DIV>

[Rhaam]

<BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Aethane wrote:<P>Just like real life, once you legalize something it suddenly becomes morally correct and the norm. The fact SOE is now condoning and facilitating such things means they will become the norm. Most folks you run into will feel quite free about buying items/accounts. The spirit of the game is destroyed by this action.</P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You massively underestimating how rampant this already is. Making new servers should actually lessen the effect on your gameplay not strengthen it. You interact with people who buy, sell or have bought and sold items every time you play guranteed. It's absolutely everywhere. I just don't see why people object to SoE moving them all on to their own servers where they can "cheat" with the other "cheaters" if you will. </P><P>I welcome the idea simply because like or not this behavior will persist and this will lessen it's impact on normal servers. Seems to be a win/win for normal players and cheaters alike. You can not like the concept of what they're doing all you want, but we need to face the reality. If it's happening anyway, why not try to seperate it from the core gameservers?</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Noah]

<P>How does this thread pertain to the guardian subclass specifically?  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Moontayle wrote: <div>Sort of like how Prostitution is legal in Las Vegas, but illegal in Los Angelas.</div><hr></blockquote>/mood pedantic Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas, and all of Clark County.  NV's prostitution laws ban it in any county over a certain population. The closest place to Las Vegas where prostitution is legal is Pahrump (sp?). Just wanted to clarify that before one of the rabid anti-exchange latched onto that instead of actually paying attention to your argument.</span><div></div>

[Sokolov]

<P>So it's better for SOE to fight an uphill losing battle against botters and farmers...</P> <P>than it is for them to legalize it [it being Sony Exchange] and gain greater control over it's implementation and thereby allowing them to more effectively punish EULA violators?</P> <p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class=date_text>04-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:53 AM</span>

[Nemi]

<P>How can they more effectively punish EULA violaters given you admit they suck at it now?</P> <P>By removing the illicit nature of selling virtual data for real-life cash you only open the floodgates. Why bother have a game, might as well just have a random lottery and fashion contest each week.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <DIV>EDIT : Typo</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nemi on <span class=date_text>04-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:06 PM</span>

[Timzil]

It may not be a guardian issue, but it's one of the better reasons for leaving a game that I've seen posted. SOE selling out the honest players may not be game changing, but it's going to change the way mature gamers look at SOE products. If I wasn't a guild patron I'd leave on principle, but then I'm not all that impressed with EQ2 to begin with.

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Timzilla wrote:but then I'm not all that impressed with EQ2 to begin with. <div></div><hr></blockquote> They why on earth are you sending SOE your hard-earned money to play their lame game?  Quit already.  Find something else to spend your money on that you <b>enjoy</b>. (And if you enjoy EQ2, then what are you complaining about?)</span><div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>cause there is nothing else to play thats worth playing?</P> <P>cause with a wife and kids - the things you would potentially spend your money on that you *enjoy* take time outside of the loop. When  sitting on a computer can be done while attending real life???</P> <P>cause going out = clubbing, eating out, etc... - typically cause real life problems for some odd reason when done in excess... just irony i guess.</P>

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<p>cause there is nothing else to play thats worth playing?</p> <p>cause with a wife and kids - the things you would potentially spend your money on that you *enjoy* take time outside of the loop. When  sitting on a computer can be done while attending real life???</p> <p>cause going out = clubbing, eating out, etc... - typically cause real life problems for some odd reason when done in excess... just irony i guess.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>So really there's other things you'd enjoy more but chose not to 'cause you picked up a few other things you like to do (such as the wife, and thus the kids. *rimshot*) And you're also saying EQ2 is the most enjoyable game out there....so buck up, you're playing the best game there is!</span><div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>well im a single male in college. And yeah - to me the game just basically keeps me grounded and out of trouble and from doing typical college crap.</P> <P>Ya know cause its funny. My mom tells me to get out and do what other people my age do. And all i can come up with is smoking, drinking, partying, chicks. (which i do my share of, just not often enough to consider them a realistic source of entertainmnet over time and still be done in SAFE moderations.) </P> <P>buy yeah - i am playing the best thing there is lol....</P> <P>dont have a choice.</P>

[Nacoa]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SageMarrow wrote:<div></div><p>Ya know cause its funny. My mom tells me to get out and do what other people my age do. And all i can come up with is smoking, drinking, partying, chicks. (which i do my share of, just not often enough to consider them a realistic source of entertainmnet over time and still be done in SAFE moderations.) </p><div></div><hr></blockquote>You probably don't want any more advice from us old folks, but get out there and do that.  If you really are a college kid, now is the one time in your life where you can do that.  Trust me, the adult responsibility thing can wait.</span><div></div>

[Nemi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nacoa wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>Ya know cause its funny. My mom tells me to get out and do what other people my age do. And all i can come up with is smoking, drinking, partying, chicks. (which i do my share of, just not often enough to consider them a realistic source of entertainmnet over time and still be done in SAFE moderations.) </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You probably don't want any more advice from us old folks, but get out there and do that.  If you really are a college kid, now is the one time in your life where you can do that.  Trust me, the adult responsibility thing can wait.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Amen to that. If you don't take the time to enjoy your college days, you WILL look back and regret it. 4 years of wonder and 40 years of responsibility, you work it out.

[Oakwood]

<P>/agree with Nacoa 100%</P>

[Timzil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nacoa wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timzilla wrote:<BR>but then I'm not all that impressed with EQ2 to begin with. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They why on earth are you sending SOE your hard-earned money to play their lame game?  Quit already.  Find something else to spend your money on that you <B>enjoy</B>.<BR><BR>(And if you enjoy EQ2, then what are you complaining about?)<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>If you feel the game is lame, why are you here? Thanks for the spending advice, but my money isn't all that hard to earn, and I already have multiple avenues for blowing it.</DIV>

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Timzilla wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Nacoa wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> Timzilla wrote:but then I'm not all that impressed with EQ2 to begin with. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>They why on earth are you sending SOE your hard-earned money to play their lame game?  Quit already.  Find something else to spend your money on that you <b>enjoy</b>.(And if you enjoy EQ2, then what are you complaining about?)</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>If you feel the game is lame, why are you here? Thanks for the spending advice, but my money isn't all that hard to earn, and I already have multiple avenues for blowing it.</div><hr></blockquote>I'm not sure if you're talking to me. "Lame" was the opinion of the poster I was quoting.  I'm having a ton of fun playing the game.  I'll continue to have a ton of fun when they open the exchange servers.</span><div></div>

[Iwand]

<P> </P> <P>Nacoa said Timzilla said Nacoa said Timzilla said                          </P> <P> </P> <P>enough said</P> <DIV>Why is everyone so upset about what other people do to enjoy the <U><FONT color=#ffff00>game</FONT></U>?</DIV>