Guardian vrs SK (an informed comparison)

[ToadFa]

<DIV> <DIV> <P>I started life as an sk and obtained lev 35.</P> <P>I then read all the sk has no role on raid threads and decided to role a guardian.</P> <P>I reached lev 35 as a guardian and then compared all the stats/abilities between the 2.</P> <P> </P> <P>1/</P> <P>Basically at 35 my guardian had about 10 more defense than an sk and about 400 more hpts when both used their buffs.</P> <P>The interesting point is that the guardians buffs are grp buffs while the sk's lucan's pact is a self only, so if both were in a grp the sk would have the same def as the guardian and similar hitpoints.</P> <P>The guardian also has crushing, parry etc grp buffs and so again if both where grouped the sk would have the same resistances.</P> <P> </P> <P>2/</P> <P>Contary to popular belief at 35 the taunts between an sk and a guardian are almost identical in that they have the same threat creation stats.</P> <P>The only noticible difference here is that the guardian in addition has 'hold the line' which they can turn on and become imobile but have a % based chance to generate an extra 130 ish threat on successful hits.</P> <P>There maybe some threat associated with the buffs which isn't visable but which may help a guardian hold agro, but on the other hand an sk has wards which probably also generate aggro in a similar way.</P> <P>3/</P> <P>At 35 a guardian has 1 aoe attack while an sk has 4.</P> <P>This is how an sk can get into the top few dps totals in a fight, but obviously only works in grp mob situations where nothing is being mezzed.</P> <P>With no mezzer present this gives the sk an advantage in holding grp agro.</P> <P> </P> <P>4/</P> <P>One of the sk aoe's costs a whopping 134 mana, this is why sk's were winging that they were oom all the time.</P> <P>Apart from this expensive aoe all the other sk abilitie's mana costs are inline with equalent guardian ones.</P> <P>A guardian has a similar mana total to an sk so they have the same ability potential.</P> <P>5/ </P> <P>Sks have wards, at 35 its a 400ish pt ward with a small lifetap component which can be chain cast with a small timer.</P> <P>This ward can be placed on anyone in the group and so would help the mt reguardless if it where a guardian or the sk.</P> <P>6/</P> <P>The dps of an sk vrs that of a guardian using the same weapon on a solo mob is pretty much identical.</P> <P>An sk only has much higher dps in grp mob situation where the 3 extra aoe attacks come into play.</P> <P>7/</P> <P>An sk can give armour to someone else in the grp while a guardian has some buffs which are only castable on other grp members.</P> <P>Tbh I don't use these much as I'm usually MT and if I'm secondary I don't want to [Removed for Content] myself in case the mt dies, at lev 35 I haven't experienced raids where this sort of thing is a must.</P> <P>8/</P> <P>An sk has feign death which can save anyone in the grp from death, a very nice skill but not that useful on a raid.</P> <P> </P> <P>Conculsion:-</P> <P>If only the sk or the guardian are in a grp as MT then the guardian is a better choice.</P> <P>If they are both present in the grp they are totally interchangable.</P> <P>I haven't reached level 50 yet but if this trend continues then I see an sk as being totally interchangeable with the guardian 'IF' they are both present in the main grp.</P> <P>The reason all the sk are gimped threads appear is that other classes with better wards are given preference over an sk in the main group, the guardian is a must in the main group because of the hit point, parry and crush resistance grp buffs which help augment whoever the MT is., these buffs are also currently stackable in the same line which makes a big diference.  </P> <P>An sk can't buff the MT aswell as other classes but he can chain ward the MT, however other classes have similar wards so it would be interesting to make a comparison of these as I believe they all stack across classes?</P> <P>Unfortunately the biggest reason to pick a guardian over an sk is other people's perception of the class, they simply see x as better than y and that's the end to it.</P> <P>Becuase of this if you are lfg and a guardian you are 75% more likely to get the spot in a grp over an sk of the same level. </P> <P>An sk is simply an Aoe based fighter, if you want a solo based high dps fighter look elsewhere.</P> <P> </P></DIV></DIV>

[zapc]

<P>     Up to 35 you may be right, but at endgame things change alot, we have a couple 50 sk's in our guild and a few 50 guardians and this is what ive noticed.</P> <P>   As of now SK's play a much better roles as dps and buffs for teh main tank, but not as the main tank. Most guardians will have problems trying to out dps a SK at 50, while it can be done on the average the sk does more damage. Guardians mitigation and hitpoints make a huge differnce as main tank, Not that sk's cant MT raid mobs as im sure there some well equipped sk's that do, but Guardians are still better tanks. In the end SK's end up beeing MA's or just plain DPS, but we generally always have one in our MT grp for their buffs.</P> <P>Destroya 50 guardian, Nakama Innothule</P>

[Corv]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>zapco1 wrote:<p> Guardians mitigation and hitpoints make a huge differnce as main tank, Not that sk's cant MT raid mobs as im sure there some well equipped sk's that do, but Guardians are still better tanks. In the end SK's end up beeing MA's or just plain DPS, but we generally always have one in our MT grp for their buffs.</p> <p>Destroya 50 guardian, Nakama Innothule</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Unbuffed, a SK should have exactly the same mitigation as a guardian given the same armour.  The Guard might have better unbuffed avoidance with a tower shield vs. a kite shield, but the difference should not be huge.  Guardian buffs affect the entire group, except for the sta buff, stances and one or two self-only bonuses to parry from group buffs.  So the question is, are the self-only buffs that a SK has able to produce enough avoidance/mitigation to make up for the guardian's stance and self-only effects?  What are the differences in total HP like for comparably equiped SK's and Guards?  </span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Corvan on <span class=date_text>04-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:24 AM</span>

[ToadFa]

<DIV>>So the question is, are the self-only buffs that a SK has able to produce enough avoidance/mitigation to make up for the guardian's stance and >self-only effects?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im my experience yes they are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>What are the differences in total HP like for comparably equiped SK's and Guards?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At 35 about 400 hitpoints, but the sk has a 400 pt hitpt ward which is on a 1 min timer i think and so chain castable.</DIV> <DIV>Note that the ward is not mitigated so 400 ward != 400 hitpts.<BR></DIV> <DIV>Apart from the extra hitpts a guard has and assuming there is a guard in the grp to provide buffs an sk and guard are totally interchangeable in a raid grp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you however only have 1 tank in the raid grp then a guard is the way to go.</DIV>

[Tami]

There is no need to have this post in multiple forums, nor to state you are 'imformed'.  Please see my response in the SK area.

[DUNN]

Why? o Why? Let the SK sleep in peace Toadface 1-35 lvl is much much different than 35-50 for a SK.  SK do not complain we adapt.  We know what we can do and that is alot with what we have.  We pointed the issues we had with your annalysis  in our boards no need to bring it here.