Screaming Mace as a Raid MT tool

[Tankz]

<DIV>Ok, this seems so wrong that i just gotta post and make sure I'm not an idiot. The current #1 guild on my server has a rather odd policy with their MT's, in which they have them use a Screaming Mace. I wanna get other feedback on this, and see what you guys think.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Pro's:</DIV> <DIV>You get 287 power</DIV> <DIV>Your max power raises by 212</DIV> <DIV>You get 22 str</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Cons:</DIV> <DIV>You lose 227 Hate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Raid mobs, with a Wizard or two in the mix I spam every skill I have and don't come close to being oop. It's a very rare thing that i lose aggro, but I would be worried about anything that took away taunt. I'd be deathly afraid of 3-4 quick procs and wiping the raid, for minimal benefit. And it seems off to me that people would use this over a Prismatic Weapon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any opinions on the Screaming Mace as a MT weapon in a raidx3-4 situation would be greatly appreciated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[TunaBoo]

Don't be cheap, spend the 2pp for an ebon mace... screaming mace is a bad idea. <div></div>

[Ashtaro]

Thats dumb I think.  Unless the proc buff generates a bunch of hate, which is possible I suppose but i doubt.  I've only had group buffs generate enough hate to pull a mob off somebody.

[Lakm]

I assume you're talking about me Tankzem.  First off, our guild doesn't have a policy requiring MT's to use the Screaming Mace.  It's just my personal preference.  As you saw last night while we killed Venekor, I tanked him without any problems while using the Screaming Mace.  Not once did I lose agro during the entire fight.  The threat reduction isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.  If you have one, give it a try, you may be pleased with the results.  When it comes to chosing Screaming Mace or my Prismatic, more than likely I'll use the SM unless the mob is immune to crushing, and then of course I'd use the Prismatic.  There have been times when it proced 4-5 times in a row and I still maintained agro, in fact, I can't recall a single time where it proced and I lost agro.  I even remember pulling mobs with my bow only to have my SM proc off the arrow and I still had agro.  That right there should tell you the threat reduction is either broken or just doesn't decrease threat enough for it to be of any concern.  Hopefully that answered some of your questions...  The way I see it, why have your wizards feed you power when they could be nuking the mob for extra dps or feeding power to healers.

[Tankz]

<DIV>Wasn't a disparagement to EC, i just see your MT's, be it you or Rana or whoever it is at the time using SM's a lot. I also saw the SS of your last Krathuk kill (Poor Rauko), and was wondering at the reasoning behind the Screaming Mace. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It sounds like the actual power hit, and the str buff/total power buff outweighs the actual deaggro. It's something that i will definately have to test, and the reason i posted my question to these boards. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as wizard dps, until they fix Ice Comet being resisted by 80% of raid mobs, wizards main dps comes from DoTs and lower lvl spells. Therefore imo one of their main roles in a raidx4 setting is mana battery. Your right tho that it'd be better served going to our healers. It's something I shall test and hopefully better myself by.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shizzirri]

<DIV>My question is they make their MT's use a screaming mace over well prismatics maybe and how did they become #1 on the server, sheesh /wtb competition.  The mace is a good weapon and yes you can MT with it if you know what your doing but its not that good, the imbued ebon is a better tanking weapon for slash immune mobs or whatever.</DIV>

[Obmarbe]

I use an SM I am happy with it <div></div>

[Sazzabi8]

<span>Personally I think screaming mace is very good on raids, an I have done them all. I havnt had any problems using it as my only blunt 1 hander.  With the extra power you get each proc you can cast a lot more +hate than the -hate part does. Each proc grants enough power to cast  3 +500 hate spells,  +1500 hate total). That far outweights the -227 hate  the proc does also. I think its definitly better than ebon. If the mob isn't slash resistant and power isn't an issue I usually just use prismatic 1 hander. </span><div></div>

[English Da Gua]

<DIV>  All I can say is, if you can hold aggro using the SM, use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  If you can't maintain aggro, don't use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  This applies to any weapon. If it works for you, run with it. Would be a sad day if every guardian used the same setup (we almost do anwyays) and tactics for raids. I say think outside the box, this post was a very interesting read.</DIV><p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:09 AM</span>

[Xiza]

I actually think the Yaulp proc in it is somewhat bugged and does not effect Hate lists as much as people think it does.  Great weapon for the MT on raids.  Get master/ad3 taunts and you should be pretty set.  Heck I dont even think you need to get them ad3.  <div></div>

[Shizzirri]

<DIV>A3's do help I went through most of the 30's with app 4 ones vs Ad3 ones in the 40's and i did notice quite a difference when I lost aggro especially with the AE ones.  Ya the mace is a nice weapon but I've noticed that when the proc goes off yes you can lose aggro easy cause its happened to me, you just have to be on your toes when that proc goes off and you should manage fine its just in raid situations I tend to miss the proc at times as I'm paying attention more to whether I'm holding aggro and mob positioning rather than things like if my weapon procs, and plus it can be hard to see when your buff window is full, but I'm a slacker so who knows.</DIV>

[SenorPhr]

anyone who endorses a weapon with a hate reducer as weapon for a MT needs to get their head examined. go "think outside the box" all you want. <div></div>

[English Da Gua]

<P>  If one can hold aggro using the SM does that make that person a better tank then you?</P> <P>  Who cares if the weapon produces a deaggro, it makes ZERO difference if you hold aggro. I don't care if you go into combat with your bare fists, if you hold aggro you are doing your job. Posts like yours add nothing to the mix and just show that there are other tanks who can do the same job as you using a deaggro tool.</P> <P>   Not sure on the actual numbers, I am basing this on EQgaming (-226 hate, +287 power). Fact is, with the power it grants, you can cast well over 1k hate to the target. So lets see, you basically gain 800 hate for free...yea [Removed for Content] poor choice for an MT weapon.  </P> <P>    One question, is the hate affect encounter wide or single target? It looks to be single target.</P>

[TunaBoo]

YEs 300 power makes 1500 hate. But you are assuming on a raid you are power limited to hate. I am not. I am time limied.. i got more power then I can ever use.. so the fact is, I am LOSING 300 hate with a proc = less hate them not using the mace. <div></div>

[Dracoviol]

That really depends on the total hate the mace generates Tunaboo which to this point no one knows for fact. <div></div>

[English Da Gua]

<DIV>  While I agree with you on that particular front Tuna, there are also times when tanks not in said guilds may be power limited, and in that situation if they are power limited then it works out better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Like anything it is situational, but that is a good, valid point any tank would need to factor in when deciding what weapon to use.</DIV>

[Obmarbe]

i only come close to running out of power is a verrrry few encounters and i still use the screaming mace i am not going to sit here and argue with you.  i will only state one more time, i dont have a problem using the SM - ever use it or don't - i dont really care <div></div>

[Ashgaarl]

<P>I am 48 Guardian on Splitpaw Server. Alot of the "highend" level 50 tanks I talk to use the Screaming Mace when MT in raids... Say that the effects on the mace actually accumulates more hate than it decreases..?</P> <P> </P> <P>Don't know, but I am gonna get it and find out :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Sarelin-SeisB]

<P>What's the damage rating on the screaming mace? I haven't quite finished that quest yet. I generally use a Tundran War Axe for MT-ing - damage rating is 44.1 if I remember right.</P> <P>I've also got a bloodfire, 41.x rated, and think I'm going to sell it. I don't think the proc is worth the lower dps, but maybe the stats are. Hard decision.</P> <P>For a blunt I use an Imbued Cedar Cudgel. Same damage rating as an ebon mace, similar stats, but cedar is vastly cheaper than ebon.</P> <P>And just in case I have a Master's Pike bagged for piercing damage.</P> <P>I also picked up a Monsoon which appears to stack it's haste with Avatar and FBSS (37% total) so when I'm two-boxing it outperforms my EBBC.</P> <P> </P> <P>What do you think of Bloodfire vs Tundran War Axe?</P>

[Styk]

Guard in our raids uses an SM for tanking..... Havent see her lose agro yet, also her power situation improved , now when we get prismatics i assume she will be using that but if the mob is slash resistant then SM is the way to go <div></div>

[Grond]

<DIV>Personally out of all the weapons I have seen the three best 1H weapons are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Prismatic Longsword for slashing</DIV> <DIV>- Defrauders Dirk for Piercing</DIV> <DIV>- Hardened Metalic Hammer for Crushing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Member of Genesis on Highkeep</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 50 Guardain / Level 50 Woodworker</DIV>

[nig]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grondax wrote:<BR> <DIV>Personally out of all the weapons I have seen the three best 1H weapons are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Prismatic Longsword for slashing</DIV> <DIV>- Defrauders Dirk for Piercing</DIV> <DIV>- Hardened Metalic Hammer for Crushing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Member of Genesis on Highkeep</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 50 Guardain / Level 50 Woodworker</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Where/who drop the hammer ?

[bonesbro]

Remember that buffs add hate.  I imagine that the -hate on the proc is to partially offset the hate from the str/power buff and from the power heal.  <div></div>

[Sho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bonesbro wrote:<BR>Remember that buffs add hate.  I imagine that the -hate on the proc is to partially offset the hate from the str/power buff and from the power heal.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ding ding ding!  We have a winner...</P> <P>I imagine with the huge amount of power and other buffs this mace tosses on you when it procs the (- to hate) is just an offset so the tank still has to taunt and not just swing away.  Think about it.  Who do you usually lose aggro too?  For me it's templars or [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]asins.  For the templars I can tell you it's buffing and warding in battle that draw thier aggro.  This is a huge buff, it must generate huge aggro.</P>

[Grond]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nigni wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Grondax wrote: <DIV>- Hardened Metalic Hammer for Crushing<BR></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><BR>Where/who drop the hammer ?<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The Hammer drops in the Feerott instance Meeting of the Minds.  I'm not sure if it can also drop elsewhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Officer of Genesis on Highkeep</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 50 Guardian / Level 50 Woodworker</DIV>

[Rothnar]

<DIV>If u have a chanter in raid there shouldnt be a need to use screaming mace, unless the mob drains power it helps, but i spam taunts throughout the whole encounter and still dont use 1 bub of power</DIV>

[English Da Gua]

   <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rothnar wrote:<BR> <DIV>If u have a chanter in raid there shouldnt be a need to use screaming mace, unless the mob drains power it helps, but i spam taunts throughout the whole encounter and still dont use 1 bub of power</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>  So are you saying you finish the fight with 80% power? If so use your Combat arts, or do some HOs etc. If you finish a fight with 80% power you are simply being inefficient.</P> <P>   The fact remains this weapon CAN be used as a MT tool. The proc simply adds power while decreasing hate on one target. One cast of deafen totally negates this effect. Also, it allows you to use more power, for taunts or DPS, whatever you wish.</P> <P>   The defining factor of a MT weapon are stats and the ability to use it and hold aggro / defeat the encounter. This weapon is easy to get your hands on for everyone, where as the weapons mentioned in above posts are not so easy for everyone to get.</P> <P>   Are there better crushing weapons...yes. If you can't get your hands on them does this weapon work as a MT crushing weapon, it most certainly does.</P><p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:14 PM</span>

[Belce]

To add to the detaunt is meant to counter the taunt of the proc, I would also bet it does not entirely cover the taunt of the buff as well.  The buff of the proc with its detaunt is a net taunt in the end.  Don't pull this puppy out if you are attacking and want to loose agro and think it will shed agro for you. 

[Sazzabi8]

I didn't really consider the fact some guardians normally group with classes that can buff their power regen so high that they can chain cast and never go out of power. In that case another good blunt 1hander with similar or better dps would be prefferable. For myself I know I can go out of power chain casting over a decently long fight of a groupx4, with the group setup I have on raids, so the proc from the Screaming Mace is useful to me. There are also quite a few raid mobs that drain power, and you are basically near out of power the whole fight, where it comes in handy. <div></div>

[Ibis]

I was wary of using SM to tank epics, and was using widdershins HA!  I tried it tonight though on everything I tanked, and it was great.  I got my power back (hi udalan) and didnt lose aggro anywhere out of place. <div></div>