Major aggro issues. Stealing aggro from MT without trying

[Uumuuanu]

<DIV>Ok, I need some major feedback from high level guardians on this,  not sure if its me, a bug, or just a completely annoying issue that happens randomly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been in numerous group and raid situations over the last few weeks where even with a high level MT,  I have pulled aggro off of them without taunts, buffing, etc.  Nothing other them DPS that should have pulled aggro off of them (in some cases 8-10 lvls higher then me).  A good example was over the weekend in EF.  Our guild group went after Dreadwake and then the SkyMarshal valkyrie.   The MT is an experienced lvl 50 guardian.  I was only along as support and for the ride.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With Dreadwake I was going with dual wield piercing.  Buffed as I was my ATK was a 793 (woots).  Not sure what his was as I didnt look.   Several times during the fight (under a minute), I noticed Dread was attacking me.  Not that I was worried, he is only lvl 42.   I thought hmm, maybe I am just lucky to have the sharky like me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then with the SkyMarshal, I decided to go with a 2HB (fewer attacks more damage) since she appeared to resist my piercing (poking for 19pts isnt helpful).  During the nearly 10 min battle,  I noticed that at least 3 times I pulled aggro off the MT (and got my but kicked for it).  After we were done, he asked what I was doing that got aggro.  Honestly I couldnt answer him as I was not buffing, was not taunting and I know that the 2 scouts in the group as well as the 2 healers had to be pulling more aggro then I was (they were lvl 50s).  The MT literally used 30% of his power in the first 2 minutes spamming taunts and aggros because she kept turning on me. Several times I simply had to back away from the fight. I laughed it off as me pulling out the ugly stick (the 2HB hammer that is as big as I am) and being a cute lizard that she wanted to get her hands on.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a serious note however,  with different tanks (both guardian and berserkers) I have noticed that this happens to me when I am not the main tank.  Not sure what I am doing or not doing right and why it happens.  I know that I cerntainly dont want to be annoying or putting the group at risk by breaking the aggro chain.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any one have any ideas what it is or suggestions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit it was <SPAN class=capitalize>Gale Monarch E'yildir, not the skymarshal.</SPAN></DIV><p>Message Edited by Uumuuanu on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:37 AM</span>

[Mastoras]

<P>I honetly just think that taunts are just not that good in this game.  I think taunts for tanks should be alot better when it comes to sticking on them, that the only real way to get a mob off a tank is to really really bust your butt with powers and such to try and and get it off.  As of now, alot of times i iniate the argo, and i mean all the taunts, single, multi, and even buffs, to secure argo in the beg, but a few sec later ill lose some to some other party members..........and when a tank loses an argo, its like 10x harder to get it back.</P> <P>Now this doesnt always happen, some groups i have no problem at all, but in others it seems every pull i do, i almost always lose the argo to someone else.  Its fustrating really, would it be so wrong for tanks to have awesome taunt powers that no one can match, i mean thats why we picked tanks, to keep argo, if we cant do it then who else <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>All my powers are at least App4 and Adept 1s.  And when i mean tanks, i mean the whole fighter line, cuz they can all tank one way or another.</P> <P>I have a 40 Guardian</P>

[Squeeb]

<DIV>I think taunts are pretty good imo.. Part of the group strategy is to do what they can to keep their aggro minimized. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you join a group where people pull aggro off you all the time (and it's usually the same people) just tell them to chill on the button spamming.. So you'll lose a whole 10 seconds per mob killing it/ it beats the down time you'll have when you burn half your mana bar trying to get aggro back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also the MT has to use atleast some of his specials. Use some tank only HO's too that helps a ton.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tell the mages not to go nuke wild as soon as the mob is pulled.. Tell the Scouts to pop evade every time it comes up. Tell the bards not to sing during combat and tell the priests not to throw their group regens and wait for you to be less than half health so they can spam their high power heals. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your taunting every time one comes up you're doing your job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the top post goes. We all know hate is as simple as just a list with numbers constantly updating on top of each other to see who has the mob's attention. Even tho you were going 2hd you were still putting out some big numbers I bet. Try just going in auto attacking for a few sec then throw a special attack. Hopefully the MT in your group was using specials himself along with the taunts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--Jaeven</DIV> <DIV>Dark Horizon</DIV> <DIV>50, Guk</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Squeeb02 on <SPAN class=date_text>04-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:52 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Squeeb02 on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:00 AM</span>

[Mig]

EQ1 had low lvl agro. If you were in a group with higher lvls, often the mob would turn and past you before attacking the main tank. Perhaps they have done something here that is similar.

[Sazzabi8]

Some ^^^ seem to have a mem-blur where they erase thier hatelist midfight. At this point the mob would turn on the weakest person in the group (usually the one with the least amount of hps but it might go to the lowest level person instead) for a few seconds until the MT cast enough to get back to the top of the hatelist. I assume that is what is happening. <div></div>

[Uumuuanu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sazzabi8 wrote:<BR>Some ^^^ seem to have a mem-blur where they erase thier hatelist midfight. At this point the mob would turn on the weakest person in the group (usually the one with the least amount of hps but it might go to the lowest level person instead) for a few seconds until the MT cast enough to get back to the top of the hatelist. I assume that is what is happening.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This could be the case as it was <SPAN class=capitalize>Gale Monarch E'yildir which is an epic mob, not the skymarshal (edited my post).    Anyone else seen behavior like this with mobs?</SPAN>

[Tankz]

<DIV>Some raid mobs will reset aggro when their adds die. Most notably in Maidens Gulch everytime an add dies the MT will randomly lose aggro w/o his mob being touched. Reactives have a messed up taunt element in which the person being healed gets aggro not the healer (not sure if this is what was happening). And also our taunt "Vengeful Strike" has a *$%#&!ed up aggro modifier on raid mobs, in which you can hop to the top of the aggro list almost everytime it lands.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are other issues with hate, but these are the 3 most notable and wide known. I'm not sure it was any of these things, but it is a place to start looking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Tankzem on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

[Lakm]

<DIV>Perhaps one of your melee skills has a built in buff when it lands on the target.  I know that Guardians have an attack called Vengeful Strike which increases stamina when it lands, as well as increase threat.  I never use Vengeful Strike when I'm not the MT for one reason, one hit of it will take agro off the MT approx. 95% of the time. It doesn't increase threat by an insane amount, my guess is the stamina buff it gives when the attack lands is what's causing the attack to steal agro from MT.  My advice, examine the skills you're using and see if any have a built in buff when the attack is successful, this may be what is causing you to steal the agro.</DIV>

[Rodney]

<P>"EQ1 had low lvl agro. If you were in a group with higher lvls, often the mob would turn and past you before attacking the main tank. Perhaps they have done something here that is similar. "</P> <P> </P> <P>I have seen low lvl agro many times in eq2, I cant group with a mage 10 lvls below me, she takes agro every nuke, when I do group to help with a quest , she cant nuke at all.</P> <P>justt my two coppers</P> <P> </P>

[TunaBoo]

NAh main poster has it right.. guardians are fishy.. I have an offtank of mine on auto attack peel me when a bruiser doing 250 DPS can not. I think we have some weird freak aggro, but I have not traced down where it is coming from.. guardians on raid are a pain because of this at times. <div></div>

[Damonious Ba]

there are some weird agro bugs out there, seen ppl who didnt even cast or attack draw agro off the MT after 15 sec (though hes been tauntspamming)

[Ivellious]

<P>it's true that sometimes agro is stole off of the guardian, i've had that problem with my guardi, but sometimes it's not bug or whipe.</P> <P>i think the worst thing a guardian can do is mass taunt at begining of battle, if you do hardly any dmg to the mob you will lose hate, quite easily too,  i found using your most updated taunt and completing a couple of heroic opertunities you'll keep hate, in lower raids i've done, i aoe taunt, heroic opertunity, single taunt, heroic opertunity, aoe taunt, i never lost hate, even with bard type beside me buffing in battle, why i don't know should of been done before battle, but i still kept hate.</P> <P>mass as in spamming aspect</P><p>Message Edited by Ivellious on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 AM</span>

[Spike]

<DIV>When tanking raid mobs as a guardian everyone should wait for him to get a decent amount of aggro, then when he has enough let him say ok you can attack.  Some raid mobs are wierd and that sometimes doesn't work but in some instances i have buffed 3 to 4 times and not peeled the aggro from the guardian.</DIV>

[Damonious Ba]

<blockquote><hr>Spike92 wrote:<DIV>When tanking raid mobs as a guardian everyone should wait for him to get a decent amount of aggro, then when he has enough let him say ok you can attack. Some raid mobs are wierd and that sometimes doesn't work but in some instances i have buffed 3 to 4 times and not peeled the aggro from the guardian.</DIV><hr></blockquote>from my experience on raids and maintaining agro, the waiting period at the start is completely useless, because i only loose agro if someone is able to build up a huge agro value within a few seconds, but even then a small taunt is enough to gain it back since that player only put himself on top of the list with only a few points difference it seems.actually try a normal group mob, dont taunt intense but sufficiently for normale purposes, then have a wiz start the fight with an ice comet and youll loose agro, but regain it with a single taunt. so i actually wonder although i can cycle out all taunts all the time in raids if its possible to get far ahead on the agro list, because it doesnt seem so, even when taunting with all i got for a longer time, agro can be stolen if purposed on this no matter how much threat i built up.

[Ashgaarl]

<P>Level 48 Guardian here. Were on raid in Neltulos (spider) the other day. I pulled with Deafen Adept III, cast a buff and Shouting Cry (Adept III) on way back to raid then taunted again, casted HTL (Adept III) and called assist. Cycled Deafen, Vengeful Strike,Taunting Challenge, Taunting Blow, Shouting Cry and Taunting Assault (all Adept III) along with our best "DoTs", Vindication and Ferocious Charge. A 39 Berserker grabbed aggro without trying after a minute or so, stopped attacking for a minute - I regained aggro, as soon as the zerker hit autoattack WHAM - instant aggro...</P> <P> </P> <P>She also grabbed aggro from our level 50 Guardian on another raid while, by the way, she were afk in kitchen after a drink, only had autoattack on... !?</P> <P> </P> <P>We insist she is bugged hehe, no problems with anyone else. Can anyone explain this?</P>

[Gbell]

<P>I have 2 lvl 50 Serker friends and theyre the only 2 people who consistently steal agro either from raid or standard mobs.</P> <P>They can do it by just using auto attack too so i doubt its a DPS issue, especially when our wizzies and warlocks have few problems.</P> <P>Would be nice to know what causes it as you really have to burn power to get mobs off them again.</P> <P>Gavlar Bellon</P> <P>Officer of Evolution (Splitpaw)</P>

[Waru]

<P>there are some serious aggro bugs that have been ruining the game for some people for some time now.</P> <P> </P> <P>they have been around for months and don't get fixed.  i don't know *$%#&! their problem is, but its a pretty game altering issue and dont don't do crap about it, instead they fix bugs that don't have a fraction of the importance these should have.  probably cause none of the devs play tanks, they all play [Removed for Content] *$%#&! rangers.</P>

[Demothis]

The trick is in the buffs, where I may only be a 21 guard, I do have a 40 almost 41 dirge. Group buffs are some of the most powerful agro generating tools in the game. I wont speak for the epic encounters due to lack of expirience, Reasons I know this is because my tank I group with on my dirge gets a little too cockey from time to time and on the nice safe easy mobs I let him know I can take agro when I want it. Thats why he usually makes sure I have the buffs up I want before he pulls.

[Axhine]

<P>I am having the same problem holding aggro on long fights even with all my taunts at adept 3.  I fight with a zerker and a brigand and if they try real hard the can pull aggro very easy without taunting and all i do is spam taunts.  So imo yes there is a problem with hate lvls still.  </P> <P>we did a test lastnight on the fbss mob in feerrott since that is a pretty long fight.  All the zerker did was turn attack on using no spec attacks nothing for the first few mins of the fight while letting me build my hate spaming taunts attacks buffs, hold the line i mean everything i had once i felt i had the aggro in control i told him to start fighting and he pulled aggro quick with no trouble not even using any of his dedicated taunts. :smileymad:  oh and he is a lvl lowering then me as well im 43 he is 42.</P>

[English Da Gua]

<P>   I do not think you really can "build aggro" or that there is some sort of cap on hate. The reason I say this is you cannot go an entire fight without taunting till the end (last 5% or so on raid mobs). Even if at the start, you used every taunt, HO, etc until you went oop, you would still lose aggro within a short time period if you did not taunt again. The key to taunting is it needs to be done consistently.</P> <P>  I don't neccessarily think there is something wrong, as only my guild zerker, who has a royal great flail, hastes himself with every haste he can, and then uses bezerk (so when he procs it is like a self buff) takes aggro sometimes. This is how bezerkers hold aggro though themselves (hence the reason I do not feel something is broke).</P> <P>   Personally, I just think he is playing his class wrong (my opinion). It is not just the guardians job to hold aggro, it is everyones job. I have tried to explain to him that he needs to remove bezerk, or one haste etc one at a time, so we can find a happy medium between max damage and him not taking aggro. </P> <P>   The overall damage he is doing fully self buffed compared to a slighlty less self buffed version would not be that much in the entire scheme of the raid damage.</P>