Two guardians in a group - tips

[Uumuuanu]

<DIV>Ok, so over the weekend I had several chances to be in groups with more then one guardian.   Now not that I am recommending this or anything because one was fun, one sucked like well, the proverbial shopvac.  Which got me thinking.  Honestly it seems we are guardians do not work well together.   When we are MT, we are simply MT, boss of the group and well yeah.   So I came together with some suggestions that might be helpful.  I say might simply because it depends on who you group with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First let me go over the two scenarios.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scenario one,  high level group (50s) needs lower level person(me) to make mobs green in EF, Mira and several others.  MT is lvl 50 guardian with templar, mystic, assassin and coercer in group.  My job, stay out of the way add any DPS possible and hang on for the ride.  Oh yeah and get awesome drops that I cant use for 2-3 levels.   Well, while along for the ride, I realized that I wasnt going to be useful to take much if any direct damage (see additional thread up coming on aggro issues) and that I honestly put out marginal DPS.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scenario two, guildie needs someone else to fill last spot in group going to lavastorm with pickup group.  Hmm, last spot should have tipped me off, oh well nothing wrong with it, lets go along for the ride (originally it was supposed to be going to obelish but the zones on Crushbone arent up).  After an hour of less then entertaining and less then productive running around, group breaks.  Two guardians, levels 42 and 43.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This leads me to my tips section for multiple guardians in the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Work TOGETHER not as a conflicting pair.  </DIV> <UL> <LI>First Guardian/Main Tank, be the tank.  Your job is to take the damage from the mobs, hold aggro and let everyone else beat on the mobs while adding DPS.  </LI> <LI>Second Guardian/Support Tank.   Your job is to support the group other then the MT and add as much DPS as possible.</LI></UL> <P>Main Tank, please tank</P> <UL> <LI>Main tank, don't worry about anything other then tanking and leading your group to victory.  Don't waste power on buffs (especially out of combat buffing) if the second guardian is close enough to have the same buffs.  Buff only to maintain aggro as necessary.</LI> <LI>Maintain aggro on all mobs in the group you are attacking.  Adds should be handled by secondary guardian or coercer for mezz.</LI> <LI>Handle pulls and the speed of the group.  You are the effective leader of your group, if you are slow you group is slow, if you are too fast, your group dies.</LI> <LI>Call pulls unless they are completely obvious (and then still).</LI> <LI>You are most likely main assist,  target mobs quickly and effectively to maximize damage to the mobs and avoid breaking mezz if appilcable.</LI> <LI>Communicate to and WITH the group, especially the other guardian.</LI></UL> <P>Support Tank,  support your group.</P> <UL> <LI>Buff outside of combat as necessary.  Don't use buffs that the main tank may need to maintain aggro with (shouldnt be an issue if they are higher).</LI> <LI>Adds - these are yours.  If there is a coercer in the group,  get aggro on them but do not attack, get them mezzed.  If there is not, get aggro,  call the adds and protect your team (keyword TEAM).</LI> <LI>Use protection buffs on the vulnerable.   Protecting those that cant take melee damage is a TEAM effort.  If the main tank is taking damage from multiple mobs, he doesnt need to be taking it from the stray that aggros the high DPS caster or the fast paced healer.  Your protection buffs should be used to help them.</LI> <LI>Add DPS.  Pull out the big stick,  dual wield, kick dirt and throw rocks if you have to, make yourself useful in the combat situation.  Since you dont have to worry as much about aggro,  throw the specials down, initiate HOs,  blow through power on DPS, leaving yourself about 20% for emergencies.</LI> <LI>Be prepared to take over as MT at any time.  If the main tank goes down,  YOU are the main tank now.  Keep your TEAM alive.</LI> <LI>Communicate to and WITH the group, especially the other guardian.</LI></UL> <P> </P> <P>Ok, so enough on the tips, I am sure there are alot to add and some will disagree with these, please provide constructive comments to help all of us.</P> <P>Now to add some more on these groups.  First off the first TEAM plays together alot since we are guildies.  It worked out very well and we followed most of the rules above (thanks again for the awesome items guys).   The second group was a pickup GROUP, it didnt work out as well and lacked communication.  It turned into a scary run around session that kept both evac'ers in the group busy and had numerous deaths.  You will note that I used the words group and team.  A group is a well a group of people.  A TEAM is a group of people that work together as one.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>EDIT  it was <SPAN class=capitalize>Gale Monarch E'yildir not the skymarshal,  obviously she knocked the memory right out of me when she faceplanted me in the snow.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Uumuuanu on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:36 AM</span>

[Shizzirri]

<DIV>Really hated having two guard's in one group and I'm sure its the same for other classes, you can also hit the "MT guardian" with never surrendur and up his avoidance and stuff I believe, I've only used this once so I'm not 100% sure on how it works.</DIV>

[MastikFantastik]

<P>Very good post. </P> <P>As a side note for the Second tank.  Taunt the mob(s) the MT is.  Not lots but taunt all that same, say 1/3 the amount (about) you would normally as the MT that way if the MT goes down you will have agro or if you don;t you will get it that much easier.</P>

[SenorPhr]

the best tip is don't do it. and this is a great post? tell the MT *not* to buff? learn your class please sir. <div></div>

[AsheM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MastikFantastik wrote:<BR> <P>Very good post. </P> <P>As a side note for the Second tank.  Taunt the mob(s) the MT is.  Not lots but taunt all that same, say 1/3 the amount (about) you would normally as the MT that way if the MT goes down you will have agro or if you don;t you will get it that much easier.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Personally I would prefer an off-tank to NOT taunt my monsters.  If the main guardian goes down, just toss out the 4-5 taunts you have and it shouldn't be a problem.  Nothing erks me quite like watching the target turn bright red with taunt-anger and I wasn't the one who did it.<BR>

[Obmarbe]

just don't do it  it's silly <div></div>

[SilvanE]

<DIV>I run with 2 guards in the group quite often. Go up against higher level mobs to make it worth it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by SilvanEQ2 on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:41 PM</span>

[Belce]

When he said don't buff, he meant don't do any of the out of combat buffing and let the 2nd guardian look after that and as long as it doesn't mean going with a lesser buff.  Since these buffs don't contribute to agro when done, I think that makes sense.

[Saradine]

<DIV>As the second guard you can toss your avoidance buffs on the MT. it helps ALOT just ask your templar. i group with a Monk all the time and he tosses his avoid buff on me and damage slows down...when i have another guard in the group i get a couple more and I get hit even less...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It will not make you untouchable but since it does not have to be recast all the time it is worth it =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nemi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Uumuuanu wrote:<BR> <P>...Things that Guardians don't want to hear....</P> <P>Message Edited by Uumuuanu on <SPAN class=date_text>04-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:36 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Uumuuanu,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well done. You've have become enlightened!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope you have a very thick flamesuit from the vocal 12 year olds who want to feel all important about being the *only* tank in this game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm very glad you have realised that as not the MT you still have lots to offer a group.</DIV>

[English Da Gua]

<P>  Only comments.</P> <P>   First, if you stay aware as the MT there is no need to call inc mobs. You may need to say add etc if you have an enchanter, but this isn't EQ1. Yes it is nice to have, but it is far from needed.</P> <P>   Two, you should NEVER be the MA imo if you have another DPS with a clue in group. There are times when things go bad, it just happens no matter how good of a tank you are. Now I do not mean like horribly bad, a wipe for example, I mean sometimes people move and aggro stuff, or a mez gets interrupted etc. Have someone else MA so you can control aggro. Implied targetting makes this very easy. Being the MT and MA leads to mobs being half dead if for some unforseen reason you need to change targets.</P> <P>   Third, I am trying to be constructive....but just do not group with other guardians. One is enough to MT, and another only provides less DPS and less utility then other classes. NOT because we can only MT, but because others do the job of DPS and utility better / more efficiently, and in a grind goup efficiency is the most important thing.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>   That being said, if you need to fill a spot and a guardian is the only lfg, this is a very informative post.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:28 AM</span>

[Grond]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MastikFantastik wrote:<BR> <P>Very good post. </P> <P>As a side note for the Second tank.  Taunt the mob(s) the MT is.  Not lots but taunt all that same, say 1/3 the amount (about) you would normally as the MT that way if the MT goes down you will have agro or if you don;t you will get it that much easier.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This doesn't work.  If you're doing even decent DPS, then you will gank aggro from the MT with one taunt.  From a MA spot it is very easy to get aggro if you need to.  95 % of the time one Vengeful Strike will do it (my taunt of choice for ganking aggro).  </P> <P> </P> <P>Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard</P> <P>Member of Genesis on Highkeep</P> <P>Level 50 Guardian / Level 50 Woodworker</P>