Guardians the only raid MT choice?

[Zerofault]

<DIV>I think not, 50 berserker MT for Archons, a small, very well organised guild.  We spanked Darathar tonight with me as MT and 2 other groups.  Out of the three groups we had ZERO deaths and smoked him on our first attempt.  So eat it up Gage, now you can cry about Guardians and Berserkers lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV>

[English Da Gua]

  You may have just turned an entire class against you with that post haha :smileywink: <p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:22 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think not, 50 berserker MT for Archons, a small, very well organised guild.  We spanked Darathar tonight with me as MT and 2 other groups.  Out of the three groups we had ZERO deaths and smoked him on our first attempt.  So eat it up Gage, now you can cry about Guardians and Berserkers lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Good stuff, grats Lodoz.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 46th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV>

[TunaBoo]

Shrug I don't see how this relates to guardians, anymore then gage's ramblings. I've said all along any class should be able to tank just about anything out there, it depends if you want to do it the easy way or the hard way. <div></div>

[Styk]

I dunno Tuna , if they did it with 3 groups it might not have been "hard" for them, but then again maybe they are really skilled .... <div></div>

[Grond]

<P>Patch Note Updates -</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>- The Darathar encounter has been changed to increase the pace and challenge of the event.</STRONG></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Darathar really isn't that hard right now.  My guild killed him easily with no deaths, but that isn't saying much since he is so easy right now.  We can't wait for a re-match when he is harder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Member of Genesis on Highkeep</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 50 Guardian / Level 49 Woodworker</DIV> <DIV><BR>Server First Discovery for the Prismatic Long Sword</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4><FONT color=#ff0033>P.S.</FONT> </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <P><FONT size=3><STRONG>- The proc effects on the following spells or combat arts now deal direct damage instead of granting an additional attack:</STRONG></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><STRONG><SPAN> </SPAN>- Rampage</STRONG></FONT></P> <P><STRONG>Edit</STRONG>:  This is in no way saying Zerkers are not a great class.  I always love grouping with them, because they have sick DPS and can also take a hit if needed.  If I re-rolled for some reason it'd be a zerker for sure.  I just don't like people walking around and trying to shove things in other peoples faces.  I never said you couldn't tank, so please don't come trash talking on my boards as if I offended you.  Why you'd tank rather then DPS is beyond me tho.</P><p>Message Edited by Grondax on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:41 AM</span>

[Zerofault]

<DIV>Trash talking?  I don't know about you, but I didn't come here listing supposed nerfs and ask why you would ever tank anything.  BTW, Rampage may become even more effective with this change... and yeah I agree, Darathar was a push-over.  I did 58K dmg to darathar while tanking, so I guess you could say i was a DPS MT.  This game is young and I'm letting people know that if they chose Berserker, they can MT every bit as well as a guardian.  My defense when i'm tanking is 303, my avoidance is 100%, and my mitigation is well over 4000.  My unbuffed HP's are 5060 and buffed I can get around 9k.  List your stats and we'll see if theres much difference, cause i'm betting if there is any, its that you can't get as high as me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR> <DIV>Trash talking?  I don't know about you, but I didn't come here listing supposed nerfs and ask why you would ever tank anything.  BTW, Rampage may become even more effective with this change... and yeah I agree, Darathar was a push-over.  I did 58K dmg to darathar while tanking, so I guess you could say i was a DPS MT.  This game is young and I'm letting people know that if they chose Berserker, they can MT every bit as well as a guardian.  My defense when i'm tanking is 303, <FONT color=#ffff00>my avoidance is 100%</FONT>, and my mitigation is well over 4000.  My unbuffed HP's are 5060 and buffed I can get around 9k.  List your stats and we'll see if theres much difference, cause i'm betting if there is any, its that you can't get as high as me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Not for long!<BR>

[English Da Gua]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR> <DIV>Trash talking?  I don't know about you, but I didn't come here listing supposed nerfs and ask why you would ever tank anything.  BTW, Rampage may become even more effective with this change... and yeah I agree, Darathar was a push-over.  I did 58K dmg to darathar while tanking, so I guess you could say i was a DPS MT.  This game is young and I'm letting people know that if they chose Berserker, they can MT every bit as well as a guardian.  <FONT color=#ffff00>My defense when i'm tanking is 303, my avoidance is 100%,</FONT> and my mitigation is well over 4000.  My unbuffed HP's are 5060 and buffed I can get around 9k.  List your stats and we'll see if theres much difference, cause i'm betting if there is any, its that you can't get as high as me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>  And all that should be well less as a plate tank. And after next patch it should all go down drastically. There in lies the problem with defense and avoidance vs mitigation tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Oh and monks, we do not get that 100% on our own. So please believe your avoidance will be higher then ours as it should, but it won't be as drastic as you think, since you guys can get the same buffs as us. So with them working on buffs, you won't be able to achieve that number either. Which is good, epic raids will be a challange again.</DIV><p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:14 PM</span>

[Sirrion77]

<P>Hmmm...</P> <P>Did you have a guardian in your group?</P> <P>In my view:</P> <P>unbuffed : guardian = berserker </P> <P>berserker + guardian buffs  = guardian</P> <P> </P> <P>My 2 cents,</P> <P>Sirriun,</P>

[Zerofault]

<DIV>Sirriun, trade your 2 cents in for some common sense....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When we have a guardian on they are generally put in my group.... for our first VoV kill the guardian had an untimely LD, but didn't affect the outcome. Vox dead with 5 in MT group, no guardian.  This i'm sure doesn't prove anything to you people though.  and your unbuffed guard = berserker  , guardian buffs + zerker = guardian is totally ignorant and about the dumbest thing i have ever heard, go on thinking what you will, I am living proof, and I see it first hand daily...  That berserkers are better high end tanks, especially with a guardian buffs.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirrion77 wrote:<BR> <P>Hmmm...</P> <P>Did you have a guardian in your group?</P> <P>In my view:</P> <P>unbuffed : guardian = berserker </P> <P>berserker + guardian buffs  = guardian</P> <P> </P> <P>My 2 cents,</P> <P>Sirriun,</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>hmm, i dont think that team means much now a days....</P> <P>and its funny because the fighter archetype is the only one that has such a big [Removed for Content] issue. You might say healers, but thier problems are apparent in most cases, and easily fixed.</P> <P>Fighters on the other hand are all fighting for one [Removed for Content] foothold to say that hey im MT... for 1 [Removed for Content] spot in a group/raid/or otherwise. </P> <P>SOE really flubbed up on this one.</P>

[Nemi]

The reason being Sage, is that in a raid there is only 1 MT. Everyone else is there to make sure he stays alive.Unless they change that system, then the MT issue is the biggest in the game from an archetype perspective.

[Daerr]

<P>Yep, guardian is the MT of choice, no discussion about it. Other classes can tank of course ... hell, any scout can tank a raid mob with the proper healing...</P> <P> </P> <P>On the other hand,</P> <P>if you give other fighters the defensive abilities of the guardian, you have to take a part of their dps / utility away.</P> <P>What is the consequence ? </P> <P>Only one guy will maintank anyway, so what can the other fighters do ?</P> <P> Why should we take them in raids if they cant dps (brawlers, berserkers), save the raid with fd (brawlers), heal their group (paladins, monks), buff dps classes (only real role i found for SK...), buff the other tanks, stiffle the boss (monk). </P> <P>You know we cant give defensive abilities without taking dps away.</P> <P> </P> <P>The solution lies, in my opinion, in diversity. SoE has to invent other key roles in raid. That will take time of course.</P> <P>I'm thinking of pulling, of instant agro for knight (MA role), of more self heal and group for monks so they can become independent in raids (so they can dps without any need of healing, that's great for AE mobs.)...</P> <P> </P>

[labi]

<DIV>after all this said i have one thing to ask. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>how much does WoW cost agian?</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

i gave the five stars because that was funny as hell...yeah it was me!!!

[Deis of Desti]

<DIV>Sadly, this is becomming very apparent to me now. Anyone can tank in the endgame, all you need are decent buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my paladin very much and have fun on him. I also play a guardian, which is also alot of fun to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, heres the thing, both of them tank the bloody same in the endgame... /rude Sony for class diversification</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would sooner them make Guardians THE raid tank and return paladins back to their crazy stun/heal/anti-undead days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. - Heres a tidbit of info that saddens me, so I was watching Futurama last night while hitting my taunt button on King Zalak the Ancient. Ole boy Zalak is undead, a zombie or skeleton or something. And I am a paladin, from all accounts of paladin like history I should be the master slayer of undead, and you know what not one of my 8 weapons could I will to hit the guy, all of which range from Fabled to Handcrafted of all dmg types.... Hmm... I am a paladin... I should have the ability to hit this undead lord with my freaking fists if I wanted to, but nope! Oh, not to mention how trivial this guy still is, with a few more master items we could probably 1 group him. King Zalak is the next Rognog (which was trivial for even 1 group, but who knows whats in store).</DIV>

[Sirrion77]

<DIV>I should use my 2 cents to buy you some new attitude.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only berserkers with points to make are welcome here. Go argue who has the biggest d*** to your own message boards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>unbuffed with same items : Guardian stats = Berserker stats, i'm sure even you can do the maths</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my point was showing berserkers can tank with same buffs as well as guardian in the MT group, but you took it as an attack and riposted. Looks like it was too complex for you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>good day</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sirriun</DIV>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daerron wrote:<BR> <P>Yep, guardian is the MT of choice, no discussion about it. Other classes can tank of course ... hell, any scout can tank a raid mob with the proper healing...</P> <P> </P> <P>On the other hand,</P> <P>if you give other fighters the defensive abilities of the guardian, you have to take a part of their dps / utility away.</P> <P>What is the consequence ?</P> <P>Only one guy will maintank anyway, so what can the other fighters do ?</P> <P> Why should we take them in raids if they cant dps (brawlers, berserkers), save the raid with fd (brawlers), heal their group (paladins, monks), buff dps classes (only real role i found for SK...), buff the other tanks, stiffle the boss (monk).</P> <P>You know we cant give defensive abilities without taking dps away.</P> <P> </P> <P>The solution lies, in my opinion, in diversity. SoE has to invent other key roles in raid. That will take time of course.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00>I'm thinking of pulling, of instant agro for knight (MA role), of more self heal and group for monks</FONT> so they can become independent in raids (so they can dps without any need of healing, that's great for AE mobs.)...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Stupidest idea ever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hey, lets balance the tank classes by making one the tank and the other do specific buff bot damage healing jobs that aren't really part of their archetype, make them even suckier tanks, that way for sure they won't MT!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please...<BR></DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>LOL, GAGE WILL BE A TANKING MONK IN ALL CONTENT DAMNIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>gage just a question, if you still dont tank as well as a guardian post balancing will you quit??? </P> <P>or will you just keep trying???</P> <P>Or will you ask for a dps increase so you can punch crap like a good monk should??</P> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zerofault]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deis of Destiny wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sadly, this is becomming very apparent to me now. Anyone can tank in the endgame, all you need are decent buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my paladin very much and have fun on him. I also play a guardian, which is also alot of fun to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, heres the thing, both of them tank the bloody same in the endgame... /rude Sony for class diversification</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would sooner them make Guardians THE raid tank and return paladins back to their crazy stun/heal/anti-undead days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. - Heres a tidbit of info that saddens me, so I was watching Futurama last night while hitting my taunt button on King Zalak the Ancient. Ole boy Zalak is undead, a zombie or skeleton or something. And I am a paladin, from all accounts of paladin like history I should be the master slayer of undead, and you know what not one of my 8 weapons could I will to hit the guy, all of which range from Fabled to Handcrafted of all dmg types.... Hmm... I am a paladin... I should have the ability to hit this undead lord with my freaking fists if I wanted to, but nope! Oh, not to mention how trivial this guy still is, with a few more master items we could probably 1 group him. King Zalak is the next Rognog (which was trivial for even 1 group, but who knows whats in store).</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Paladins/SK's Do not tank as well in the end game.. They take over 3x the dmg on the same encounter.  We have ran parsers, we have the info.  Anyone that thinks paladins can tank as well hasn't got a clue.  Instances, aren't guaranteed master chests and are on a 18 hour re-entry... you think this is so you can have a challenge each and every day with the same encounter? HelI no , its so you keep playing, farming mobs, while they try to figure out how to hold on to the end game players.  If you want a challenge go after venekor, vov, borxx to name a few... these are challenging, even the second or third time around...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV>

[English Da Gua]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deis of Destiny wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sadly, this is becomming very apparent to me now. Anyone can tank in the endgame, all you need are decent buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my paladin very much and have fun on him. I also play a guardian, which is also alot of fun to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, heres the thing, both of them tank the bloody same in the endgame... /rude Sony for class diversification</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would sooner them make Guardians THE raid tank and return paladins back to their crazy stun/heal/anti-undead days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. - Heres a tidbit of info that saddens me, so I was watching Futurama last night while hitting my taunt button on King Zalak the Ancient. Ole boy Zalak is undead, a zombie or skeleton or something. And I am a paladin, from all accounts of paladin like history I should be the master slayer of undead, and you know what not one of my 8 weapons could I will to hit the guy, all of which range from Fabled to Handcrafted of all dmg types.... Hmm... I am a paladin... I should have the ability to hit this undead lord with my freaking fists if I wanted to, but nope! Oh, not to mention how trivial this guy still is, with a few more master items we could probably 1 group him. King Zalak is the next Rognog (which was trivial for even 1 group, but who knows whats in store).</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Paladins/SK's Do not tank as well in the end game.. They take over 3x the dmg on the same encounter</FONT>.  We have ran parsers, we have the info.  Anyone that thinks paladins can tank as well hasn't got a clue.  Instances, aren't guaranteed master chests and are on a 18 hour re-entry... you think this is so you can have a challenge each and every day with the same encounter? HelI no , its so you keep playing, farming mobs, while they try to figure out how to hold on to the end game players.  If you want a challenge go after venekor, vov, borxx to name a few... these are challenging, even the second or third time around...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>   We won't comment on SKs as their lifetaps need some adjustment, and everyone knows this.</P> <P>   There is a post somewhere here that shows a paladin healed himself for 250k damage in a fight. OF COURSE THEY TAKE MORE DAMAGE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO !!!!!!!!!!</P> <P>  Stop saying this class or that class cannot tank as well. Want to know what determines if a class can tank or not. It is whether or not the encounter was a victory. Every class has posted proof they can tank and WIN in the end game, excluding monks, but this stems from lack of attempts it seems. <BR></P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <P>LOL, GAGE WILL BE A TANKING MONK IN ALL CONTENT DAMNIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>gage just a question, if you still dont tank as well as a guardian post balancing will you quit??? <FONT color=#ffff00>No.</FONT></P> <P>or will you just keep trying???  <FONT color=#ffff00>Yup.</FONT></P> <P>Or will you ask for a dps increase so you can punch crap like a good monk should??  <FONT color=#ffff00>Should?  Who says?  Not SoE.  Last I checked you were a kid in college, not a developer for EQ2.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Zerofault]

<P>I was commenting on Engrlish Da Guard's post saying paladins tanked same as a guardian, they simply do not even come close.....Someone stating they hve a paladin and guardian may be true, but I guarantee they aren't both lvl 50 and if they were he'd say without a doubt that the guardian is the better raid tank.. its that simple.. i'm not saying don't use a paladin.. i'm just saying speak the truth and don't try to manipulate the post to make others assume you know what your talking about because you "played" both.. get both to 50 then post or whatever you say is trivial till that point.  Some parsed numbers would be nice too, like how much healing it took to keep each up.. how much dps you both did...<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> English Da Guard wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deis of Destiny wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sadly, this is becomming very apparent to me now. Anyone can tank in the endgame, all you need are decent buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my paladin very much and have fun on him. I also play a guardian, which is also alot of fun to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, heres the thing, both of them tank the bloody same in the endgame... /rude Sony for class diversification</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would sooner them make Guardians THE raid tank and return paladins back to their crazy stun/heal/anti-undead days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. - Heres a tidbit of info that saddens me, so I was watching Futurama last night while hitting my taunt button on King Zalak the Ancient. Ole boy Zalak is undead, a zombie or skeleton or something. And I am a paladin, from all accounts of paladin like history I should be the master slayer of undead, and you know what not one of my 8 weapons could I will to hit the guy, all of which range from Fabled to Handcrafted of all dmg types.... Hmm... I am a paladin... I should have the ability to hit this undead lord with my freaking fists if I wanted to, but nope! Oh, not to mention how trivial this guy still is, with a few more master items we could probably 1 group him. King Zalak is the next Rognog (which was trivial for even 1 group, but who knows whats in store).</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Paladins/SK's Do not tank as well in the end game.. They take over 3x the dmg on the same encounter</FONT>.  We have ran parsers, we have the info.  Anyone that thinks paladins can tank as well hasn't got a clue.  Instances, aren't guaranteed master chests and are on a 18 hour re-entry... you think this is so you can have a challenge each and every day with the same encounter? HelI no , its so you keep playing, farming mobs, while they try to figure out how to hold on to the end game players.  If you want a challenge go after venekor, vov, borxx to name a few... these are challenging, even the second or third time around...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>   We won't comment on SKs as their lifetaps need some adjustment, and everyone knows this.</P> <P>   There is a post somewhere here that shows a paladin healed himself for 250k damage in a fight. OF COURSE THEY TAKE MORE DAMAGE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO !!!!!!!!!!</P> <P>  Stop saying this class or that class cannot tank as well. Want to know what determines if a class can tank or not. It is whether or not the encounter was a victory. Every class has posted proof they can tank and WIN in the end game, excluding monks, but this stems from lack of attempts it seems. <BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P> </P> <P>Lodoz</P>

[English Da Gua]

<P>  How...why?? If they take 3x the damage and can heal over the course of a fight for 250k damage does that not even out? I am curious, where are your numbers and parses to show a guardian is heads and shoulders better?</P> <P>   Paladins have MT and defeated the hardest mobs in the game what else do you want?</P> <P>  After the buff stacking and Def / avoidance changes paladins and guardians will both be affected the same. Def numbers will both remain similiar because any number a guardian can achieve a paladin in the same group can achieve.</P> <P>   Only thing that helps a guardian is racial traits with +def which any class, including a paladin can choose in EQ2.</P>

[Margen]

<P>Can't comment on Guaridan vs pallys, but can say with out a doubt that Shadow Knights are not on same level as guardians as MT.  My RL brother is a inquisator in our guild and he has told me that he has to use alot more power when I MT raid mobs versus guardians.  Our Lifetaps really kind of suck, they heal (if you are extremly lucky) a single hit on a ^^ and they are absolute power hogs, on anything higher not worth even using them.  Can we tank, yes, are we on par with guardians in different ways, nope, if not tanking I offer descent but not great dps (better to have Zerker or monk/bruiser) and a couple debuffs and buffs, that aren't going to make a huge difference in raid.</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath 29th Troll Shadow Knight</P>

[Deis of Desti]

<DIV>Oh you have got to be kidding me...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am done with this thread now. See ya all laters.</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>Yes, paladins can heal over and above the call of duty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you forget GreenDragonKnights post about the amount of HP he healed over the course of the fight??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>More than both the warden and fury in group. Ill go one step further to help you understand it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a palidin can heal 250k Hp over the course of a fight, then combining that with a defence skill that high, he would REALLY be invincible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shadowknights lifetaps dont work well because they take life to give life. So if you power those up enough to be able to reach a paladin HP POTENTIAL, then you will have alot of dead mobs out there. Which is why they havent adjusted them yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a personal note, at level 39, myself, a paladin 39, and a monk 38, and the rest of the group being lowbies -34.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i tanked the Ancient watcher and the paladin played primary healer whilst we switched aggro back and forth over the course of the fight, it was a long fight, but the paladin healed me, spot healed the rest of the group, and himself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would take aggro long enough for him to get his HP back up and allow him to take aggro back, when he would get smashed for 1200HP i would take aggro back, and we just went along that way while everyone else whacked at it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So imagine if he couldve focused entirely on himself??? i cant imagine how much HP that paladin healed over the course of the fight, but he did a darn GREAT job.</DIV>

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageMarrow wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yes, paladins can heal over and above the call of duty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you forget GreenDragonKnights post about the amount of HP he healed over the course of the fight??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>More than both the warden and fury in group. Ill go one step further to help you understand it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a palidin can heal 250k Hp over the course of a fight, then combining that with a defence skill that high, he would REALLY be invincible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Shadowknights lifetaps dont work well because they take life to give life. So if you power those up enough to be able to reach a paladin HP POTENTIAL, then you will have alot of dead mobs out there. Which is why they havent adjusted them yet.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a personal note, at level 39, myself, a paladin 39, and a monk 38, and the rest of the group being lowbies -34.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i tanked the Ancient watcher and the paladin played primary healer whilst we switched aggro back and forth over the course of the fight, it was a long fight, but the paladin healed me, spot healed the rest of the group, and himself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would take aggro long enough for him to get his HP back up and allow him to take aggro back, when he would get smashed for 1200HP i would take aggro back, and we just went along that way while everyone else whacked at it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So imagine if he couldve focused entirely on himself??? i cant imagine how much HP that paladin healed over the course of the fight, but he did a darn GREAT job.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I don't call for SK lifetaps to heal as much damage as a pally heal, that would be to powerful.  But they have to be changed,  if for instance a lifetap total of damage + heal equaled a pally's heal then I think they would work (maybe the percentages would have to be twecked, but think thats a good starting point), plus they really should lower the power usage from them, as I stated before they are serious power hogs.  As it stands now, I really only use faithfull swing reguarly for HO process, and our ward is "supposed" to have a chance to process a lifetap, but since it only last a MOB attack or two it almost never gives any form of lifetap, to be honest use it mostly for aggro generation.  The direct Lifetaps I rarley use due to effeciancy vs power consumption.  This is a major concern for alot of the SK community, hopefully they find something that works.</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath 29th Troll Shadow Knight<BR></P>