Looking for a little Tutoring

[Rivelyn Cypre]

<DIV><FONT size=3>Hi all, I have a few questions to ask in hopes that someone will point me in the right direction.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>As you can see from my sig I am running a 28th lvl Guardian. I haven't really done a lot of pick up group tanking, mostly with guild and friends and I have been noticing some things happening from about lvl 25 to now.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>I am having more problems holding aggro. I am not asleep at the wheel I pay attention to everything going on around us and I have tried very hard to find the proper combination of the taunts I have. All are at least App4 (thanks to guildy maken them all for me) and I have a few Adept 1's. I don't just taunt once and forget either, I continually taunt, and between taunt recast times I bash away. I even try leaving the odd group buff to fire off during combat because I was told that can increase hate as well. I cycle through the mob from time to time and fire off taunts just to make sure the healer doesn't end up getting kicked around. Everyone in our group communicates well, no one bothers to start swinging untill I have pulled and done at least 1 group taunt (like shout).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>We use the combat system where myself pulls by using a taunt and another DPS chooses the target after I get the second taunt off. Then everyone assists the DPS including myself. Now I know some say this system is not the proper way or the right way, however it is a nice thing that if a mob member peels toward the healer I can target and taunt off with out everyone and the pets nuking and beating the crap out of the runner, all attacks can stay focused on 1 target and ride the mob faster of multiple sharp objects poking me.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>I have some ability to twink from my other toone crafting, should I invest in an Adapt 3 is there that big of a differnce?...I know a master would be nice, healer was in a pick up last week and told me nothing left the guardian that was tanking, after asking the guardian told him he had 1 Master taunt and that was all he fired off, and nothing ever left his side.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>At lvl 28 what is the best taunt(s) I should invest in for above app4 or adept1 ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Thanks in advance for any information that will help..</FONT></DIV>

[English Da Gua]

<P>  As it stands right now, since our 50 aoe taunt does not affect raid mobs, if you are going to adept 3 a spell, shouting cry is the first choice. Reason being is that the 30 trait also works on raid mobs (I have heard) but slate's is a better choice imo as it gives you an ADDITIONAL taunt you can use until 50.</P> <P>   Really my best advice would be get at least adept 1, and feel free to spend some time hunting rares. It has taken me a lot of time, and a swallowing of my pride as I wanted to be the first 50 guardian on grobb (true 50, not transfers) but I have spent more time now that most grey out getting great gear. I have harvested cedar, uncommons and ebon for the procs they provide, as well as adept 3ing every taunt including all 3 tier 5's.</P> <DIV>   Based on the number's it doesn't make a huge difference, but honestly, I find it is still a noticeable difference. Also, only use group buffs that provide a lot of perks. Your 40 second buff line, braksans (40 trait choice) and RTB (I know they are not available at 2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but they provide the most hate for a buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Basically, pull, aoe taunt, establish aggro on main mob (and I do the same, I use another melee for an assist as it gives me more freedom). You should know prior to pull what mob he will be attacking first anyways, unless they all melee etc.  But I digress...establish aggro on first mob, do a cycle (only need one taunt on other mobs to be cool really) and back to main mob. Be sure to utilize your AoE attacks as well, these are like an aoe taunt in a round about way.</DIV><p>Message Edited by English Da Guard on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:51 AM</span>

[Dandrase]

I had done a little experimentation with my guard a little while back. On about 90% of mobs the best method I found for holding aggro was this: Have everyone assist you. Pull from slight range with Anger, next step varies wether u pull a group or single mob. Group: when they come in range hit Seloxias or Shouting Cry, Next hit Taunting Challenge, Then use Ruin,Bash,Bury (for it's aoe attack that only hits mobs you have engaged). Next start a Ho, advance it and use suppress to finish it off. By this time Seloxias/Shouting Cry will have became useable again so hit it. Rinse lather repeat till the mob is dead. Single mobs: After having everyone assist you and pulling from range with anger, use taunting challenge, than use ruin, bash, then hit the mob with suppress. After suppress goes off use one of your 30s buffs, aggro will now be pretty much all but locked to you for the duration of the fight. Throw suppress/Taunting Challenge every now again if it is a long fight. That strategy has worked on every group and single encounter that I have come across with the exception of the few classes of mobs that have very odd hate list behavior (owlbears, clay gaurdians in rov, deer and lions in zek etc.) and very large encounters (like 6+ mob encounters). In situations like that I do utilize the Cycling/Main assist method of tanking to get the job done, but for most of the game the method I described above should have you holding aggro like a champ in notime!. Also discovered another decent method for tanking in small groups when you have little dps and you must force your gaurdian to act like a dps. Grab some dual wield weapons, than head out to a multi mob encounter, pull from range with anger, throw on Hold The Line, hit your aoe taunt than use Desparate Flurry. Benefits to this include a increase in dps because you are hitting faster than normal, and that combined with dual wield doubling your chances of hitting a mob works great with HTL because that skill has a chance to cast a aoe taunt with every strike of your weapon. Hope that info has helped you out. Also I am on your server Riv, so if you ever have questions or want to learn more look me up. <div></div>

[Banditman]

<P>You gotta remember to use your buffs for their aggro generation.  If aggro isn't holding for you, pop off your buffs after your taunts, especially buffs that add HP, moreso for group buffs.</P> <P>I don't have any trouble AT ALL holding aggro, even with sick DPS in the group.  I can lock down Clay Guards in RoV when grouped with a Wiz, a Warlock and a Swashbuckler.</P> <P>I use Anger, Taunting Challenge, Ruin and Maim.  Occasionally Slam & Shield Bash.</P> <P>Occasionally I'll lose aggro on some secondary targets in a multi mob pull, almost always because one of the finger wigglers decided he could safely AOE the encounter.</P>

[English Da Gua]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR> <P>You gotta remember to use your buffs for their aggro generation.  If aggro isn't holding for you, pop off your buffs after your taunts, <FONT color=#ffff00>especially buffs that add HP, moreso for group buffs.</FONT></P> <P>I don't have any trouble AT ALL holding aggro, even with sick DPS in the group.  I can lock down Clay Guards in RoV when grouped with a Wiz, a Warlock and a Swashbuckler.</P> <P>I use Anger, Taunting Challenge, Ruin and Maim.  Occasionally Slam & Shield Bash.</P> <P>Occasionally I'll lose aggro on some secondary targets in a multi mob pull, almost always because one of the finger wigglers decided he could safely AOE the encounter.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>   Ok just want to point out one thing. I do not have moorgard's post about it, but it is the more a buff does the more hate it produces. Do not just focus on HPs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Find the one, possibly two as you level up, group buff that adds the most perks to the group. IE - iron conviction is a self only 20+ sta buff, it adds far less hate then a buff that would grant 15 sta to EVERYONE in the group.</DIV>

[mauiwuchild]

<DIV>Exactly which class is pulling agro off you, if it's a nuker, tell them to knock it off!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it's someone buffing during the fight, they better have been refreshing the 'hax0r' buff to make your group invincible (ie nobody should really be buffing during the fight)</DIV><p>Message Edited by mauiwuchild on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 AM</span>

[MastikFantastik]

<DIV>For regular fights you are absolutely right no-one should be using buffs excpet the people (person) that is supposed to have agro.  Also as Eng pointed out using buffs that add multiple things to multiple people seem to give more agro.  The HP buff I was thinking of was Do or Die which is HP for the group and mitgation vs melee I believe (at work can't check it now).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However on raids or just really long fights (epicecounters where the mob has mass amounts of HP) rebuffing might be needed and can occur. Since at this point the fight has been going on for some time. But also remember to use yours as well to help counteract any agro others are gaining from their rebuffing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also found it handy when others are getting agro to find out how/and why on lesser mob(s) to see what causes it.  For example, I don't know the name of the spell but there is a Wizzy spell that seems that almost no matter what you do when its cast they get the agro, I believe it was bugged and might have been fixed the last time I was grouped with a wizzy. But we testted it out on lower level mob(s) to see what was causing him to gain agro. After all we knew it wasn't him casting to early, because I tried duoing with him specifically to see., and I did about 25% of the mobs health in dmg (took a bit was a blue mob) and then he used the spell and bam he had agro.  All the time I was solo killing to mob I was using HTL, taunts of all sorts. So sometimes agro isn't someones fault unless they know what is causing it and they continue.  </DIV>

[Rivelyn Cypre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mauiwuchild wrote:<BR> <DIV>Exactly which class is pulling agro off you, if it's a nuker, tell them to knock it off!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it's someone buffing during the fight, they better have been refreshing the 'hax0r' buff to make your group invincible (ie nobody should really be buffing during the fight)</DIV> <P>Message Edited by mauiwuchild on <SPAN class=date_text>03-31-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:09 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT size=3>Most of the time I loose aggro to 1 of the 2 Bruiser in our group. And whenever we have our Druid, If I loose it, I never get it back. If things get bad enough they FD and I grab aggro back, but that causes them to loose thier buffs.</FONT></DIV>

[mauiwuchild]

<DIV>Are they only using DPS skills? Nothing that cases buffs to the group or debuffs to the encounter? I'd ask them that... I can't see straight DPS pulling agro....</DIV>

[Rivelyn Cypre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mauiwuchild wrote:<BR> <DIV>Are they only using DPS skills? Nothing that cases buffs to the group or debuffs to the encounter? I'd ask them that... I can't see straight DPS pulling agro....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT size=3>I will dig a little more to see what they are doing durring combat.</FONT></DIV>

[Rivelyn Cypre]

<FONT size=3>Oh yea and thanks Dandraseth I will...</FONT>

[Banditman]

<P>And god forbid if they were using what taunts they have in addition.</P> <P>Or, were they maybe completing HO's that end with a taunt?  That would be a significant problem.</P>

[Rivelyn Cypre]

<P><FONT size=3>Just a note to anyone who helped out, after talking to the rest of the group applying some new stratagy and upgrading to a few new Adept III's, holding aggro is no longer a problem, works awsome.</FONT></P> <P>Thanks all!</P>

[Squeeb]

<P>Just wait until the people you group with all decide to upgrade to adept 3's themselves, then its back to square one =).</P> <P>Lvl 50 Guardian here,</P> <P>   Unfortuantely when you start grouping with people that are on the same skill range as you IE: high end weapons (for the level)/adept 3's and such, if they're button smashing you'll ALWAYS loose aggro to the DPS classes. Even if you have adept 3's in your taunts. </P> <P>  When you go to pull a group of mobs and you throw out the normal repeating cycle of taunts; AE, Single, Taunting assault, 30 sec buff - with a few special's in there to increase your damage to get a lock on that mob and mid way you lose it, it no longer becomes your fault. You just have to ask the guys that constantly pull it off ya that, "It's ok bud, no need to go buckwild on these guys take your time and everything will go alot smoother."</P> <P> </P> <P>-- Jaeven</P> <P>Dark Horizon</P> <P>50 Guardian, Guk</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Squeeb02 on <span class=date_text>04-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:36 AM</span>

[mauiwuchild]

<P>This is eventually why they added evade for rogues in EQ1 and why I had to make an /attack off, /feign death, /sit, /attack on hotkey for my Monk.</P>

[Qwindar]

Pull with bow, group taunt (even on single target encounters) , single taunt, hitting taunt,  then group attack (only if a group encounter)/ regular attack. I group 90% of the time with my guildies, they are always a couple or more levels higher than me, and this method works like a charm for establishing aggro. All my taunts are appIV or adeptI. I'm level 32 now and this method has worked for me for a long time now. Notice I didn't say the exact abilities name, that's because as you get upgrades, they mix and match as you go, but the concept is the same. By "hitting taunt", I mean the abilites taunting blow, taunting challenge, and what not. I didn't always use the "hitting taunt" line, but when I started, I couldn't believe how much more hate it built. If you upgrade it, the "hitting taunt" provides almost the same hate as a normal taunt, but with the added hate of the actual hit itself. Also, this is just for establishing aggro, once you have it, then how you maintain it, IMO, is something you have to figure what works best for you. Buffs help maintain aggro, occasionally taunting, and going all out on our "dps" are some ways I've found helpfull in keeping aggro. What I use is based on who is with me and what mobs we are killing. Good luck to you. Oh, and one more thing I always go by, you can have all the best gear, but if mobs are hitting the casters and not you, your gear is worthless. (i.e. I tend to upgrade my abilities more than my gear) <div></div>

[Nazo]

<P>49 Guardian here</P> <P> </P> <P>I have a Warlock friend sometimes I group with and no matter what I do he will get agro from me. Adept III nukes and only way he can avoid agro is to wait till mob is like 80% before nukin old EQ style. So when we group I auto intervene him by default and after some deaths he learned that he should run to me not away from me while getting hit :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>My point being fight for agro upto a point but also know that agro is group responsibility.</P>

[Da]

<P>Id say the biggest problems with holding aggro is when you have a triggerhappy wiz/warlock that starts to nuke before ive gotten a chance to hit 2 taunts.</P> <P>So if trouble with taunt. Tell group to hold their biggest nukes/stabs just a few more seconds...</P> <P>48 guard here and i never heard i suck at taunting</P>

[Belce]

I generally group with an illusionist and when you only have one mob to worry about, it makes agro control a much easier job.