New Mitigation and Avoidance display values

[Moontayle]

<DIV><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer_gallery.vm?characterId=130261111" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer_gallery.vm?characterId=130261111</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought it was interesting that fully buffed I had a bit over 60% avoidance from same level mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: And personally I think the avoidance # is a crock of balogna. I generally have a pretty hard fight against even level solo mobs where they take up to 50% of my health and through the fight I certainly don't outright avoid damage 60% of the time (Should average out to that after 25 or so fights). I'd have to do some parsing to be completely sure but if 60% is the true number then I'd hate to think of the beating I'd get without it. Oye.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Moontayle on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 PM</span>

[mauiwuchild]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moontayle wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer_gallery.vm?characterId=130261111" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer_gallery.vm?characterId=130261111</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought it was interesting that fully buffed I had a bit over 60% avoidance from same level mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: And personally I think the avoidance # is a crock of balogna. I generally have a pretty hard fight against even level solo mobs where they take up to 50% of my health and through the fight I certainly don't outright avoid damage 60% of the time (Should average out to that after 25 or so fights). I'd have to do some parsing to be completely sure but if 60% is the true number then I'd hate to think of the beating I'd get without it. Oye.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Moontayle on <SPAN class=date_text>03-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:17 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>It's all speculation unless you have parses of logs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>which I'd love to see</DIV><p>Message Edited by mauiwuchild on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:53 PM</span>

[Arsen]

The avoidance number also does not change at all based on your Defense skill.  As we all know, this is a huge factor in how many misses we get.  Not sure how useful those numbers are at all.<div></div>

[Napolle]

my mitigaiton is liek 2.3k... with 57.6% avoid <div></div>

[Moontayle]

Actually, my avoidance # went up 2% from self buffs whereas my mitigation didn't go up at all.

[Chanliang]

as a mystic my +3 defence buff added 0.4% of avoidance... <div></div>

[Mouadieb]

my Mid is almost 1600 at 28.93 and my avoidance is 64.3 % so it says. That is with self buffs <div></div>

[ThramFalc]

<P>The avoidance number underweights defense and parry skills because it reflects the benefit against an even con enemy.  Our skills have the largest affect when they effectively make greens or blues go gray.  Against a red con, defense will have a small benefit.  Against a green con, defense can render the mob useless.  </P> <P>Its the level disparity that makes defense so great and the avoidance number just doesn't reflect that as its currently set up.  Its still one of our most important skills... just less so against higher con mobs.</P>

[shilo]

<DIV>ok i must be an idiot or just not have a clue, but I made it to 40 ok. But where exactly do you see this defense stat you are all talking about? I see, well I used to see, AC and that is about all I had to go on as far as defense...against melee anyway. any help would be appreciated</DIV>

[Morriz]

Press L to see a list of your skills/your current skill leve/your max skill level.<div></div>

[TunaBoo]

Hit L to see defense.. mroe defense = more avoidance, it is the guardian form of deflection buffs. <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>Hit L to see defense.. <FONT color=#ffff00>mroe defense = more avoidance, it is the guardian form of deflection buffs.<BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Which totally undermines the brawler class.<BR>

[OgApostrap]

This is a bit [Removed for Content].. you guardians have double my mitigationa nd only like 10% or less avoidance.. 29.. that 28.9 guard beat me bad <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hes the one I refer to..

[English Da Gua]

<P>  You realize he said he was self buffed. Heck I can add ~400 to my mitigation and over 7% to avoidance self buffed. Make sure you compare your numbers with his when he isn't buffed so it is apples to apples.</P> <P>   I mean with a shield and self buffed I am basically 70% avoidance. That's from ~57% when not buffed and no shield.</P> <P> </P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> English Da Guard wrote:<BR> <P>    I mean with a shield and self buffed I am basically 70% avoidance. That's from ~57% when not buffed and no shield.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Heh, I'm only at 75.6% or so self-buffed, with about 1775 mitigation.</P> <P>I guess we aren't as avoidance oriented as is implied, eh?<BR></P>

[RafaelSmith]

These numbers really are starting to depress me. At level 38 my mitigation shows something around 1800ish....when holding the mouse cursor over it it says i mitigate 49%.   That seems low. My Girlfriends level 38 Fury shows mitigation of around 1500ish....when holdin the mous cursor over it say she mitigate 40%... So my extra mitigation, heavy armor nets me a whole 9% extra mitigation? My avoidance is much higher than i expected... So in essense I am a avoidance tank way before I am a mitigation tank. <div></div>

[TunaBoo]

Selff buffed I avoid 68% mitigate 73% (with uebr gear) <div></div>

[Sazzabi8]

I was showing 100% avoidance raid buffed today, with around 4300 mitigation at the highest. <div></div>

[ThramFalc]

<P>If you add about 30 def from various sources, avoidance makes a huge jump into the 90% area.  This confirms that defensive effects are magnified depending on the level of the opponent.  With enough defense you can turn an even con opponent effectively gray thus the huge jump.  Before 30ish (havent tested for the exact number) the jump is only a few %.</P> <P>Add enough defense and even yellows can't hit you...</P>

[Gilgal]

<span><blockquote><hr>ThramFalcox wrote:<p>If you add about 30 def from various sources, avoidance makes a huge jump into the 90% area.  This confirms that defensive effects are magnified depending on the level of the opponent.  With enough defense you can turn an even con opponent effectively gray thus the huge jump.  Before 30ish (havent tested for the exact number) the jump is only a few %.</p> <p>Add enough defense and even yellows can't hit you...</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Is it just me or does anyone else think the above sounds like a bug?  Defense modifies avoidance? </span>

[Belgor]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gilgalon wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ThramFalcox wrote:<BR> <P>If you add about 30 def from various sources, avoidance makes a huge jump into the 90% area.  This confirms that defensive effects are magnified depending on the level of the opponent.  With enough defense you can turn an even con opponent effectively gray thus the huge jump.  Before 30ish (havent tested for the exact number) the jump is only a few %.</P> <P>Add enough defense and even yellows can't hit you...</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Is it just me or does anyone else think the above sounds like a bug?  Defense modifies avoidance? <BR></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well, stacking buffs for the defense-skill has been around since launch, and it is the best form of protection, since you can get it to 100% and thus never get hit.<BR></DIV> <DIV>If it was meant to be this way or not noone really knows I guess.</DIV>

[Banditman]

<P>Also keep in mind that your Avoidance and Mitigation numbers do NOT address Arcane damage.</P> <P>I "suspect" that they don't address Combat Abilities either, but I'd have to parse it to prove it, and I've not done that yet.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belgorim wrote: <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Well, stacking buffs for the defense-skill has been around since launch, and it is the best form of protection, since you can get it to 100% and thus never get hit.</FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV>If it was meant to be this way or not noone really knows I guess.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Funny, when agility did that for us, we got nerfed.  We were trivializing content and the plate tanks were [Removed for Content] that we "never got hit".</P> <P>So now that we can't do it, a guardian comes out and says they've been doing it since launch, as its the "best form of protection."?</P> <P>How about you use your mitigation as intended, and leave the avoidance to us.</P> <P>This <EM>has</EM> to be changed.<BR></P>

[Aren]

<DIV>Self buffed I have 2400 mitigation and 66% avoidance, Raid buffed avoidance gets up around 69% and Mitigation aroung 3300 I think</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is at level 46.9 Guardian</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We had a 46 Monk Raid buffed to 100% Avoidance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But remember this avoidance doesn't apply to spells and skills</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is the Chance to avoid regular melee attacks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The specials are what kill ya.</DIV>

[IvarIronhea]

<P>Gage -</P> <P>A guardian can self buff ~23 defense higher. Gangstafist posted in one of these earlier threads he could self buff defense ~20 higher.</P> <P>Bare in mind, Noah was the one who posted the 23 self buff number, which means all adept 3s possibly master 1s for the buffs. By this logic, with the right buffs from all the approriate classes, you can reach the same levels of defense skill as a guardian. This is also supported by the fact that Jezekiell(a bruiser) reached the same defense skill as the guardian on one of their earlier raids, 288 skill.</P> <P>In your constant, blind crusade to get guardians nerfed, you are basically calling for a nerf on all tank classes.</P> <P>I'd also like to point out the only useful information I've found so far was posted by Jezekiell in the bruiser forums. Raw unbuffed numbers from a bruiser and guardian with similar(rare crafted) gear. The bruiser mitigates 37.7% and avoids 76.8%. The guardian mitigates 49.9% and avoids 56.1%.</P> <P>Tell me why I don't see this mitigate double avoid 10% less number you monks with an agenda seem to be squealing about when you gripe about guardians.</P> <P>Basically, you have yet to back your arguments up except perception and heresay. No hard numbers, just a constant stream of one line posts full of bitterness, rumor and flamebait.</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IvarIronheart wrote:<BR> <P>Gage -</P> <P>A guardian can self buff ~23 defense higher. Gangstafist posted in one of these earlier threads he could self buff defense ~20 higher.</P> <P>Bare in mind, Noah was the one who posted the 23 self buff number, which means all adept 3s possibly master 1s for the buffs. By this logic, with the right buffs from all the approriate classes, you can reach the same levels of defense skill as a guardian. This is also supported by the fact that Jezekiell(a bruiser) reached the same defense skill as the guardian on one of their earlier raids, 288 skill.</P> <P>In your constant, blind crusade to get guardians nerfed, you are basically calling for a nerf on all tank classes.</P> <P>I'd also like to point out the only useful information I've found so far was posted by Jezekiell in the bruiser forums. Raw unbuffed numbers from a bruiser and guardian with similar(rare crafted) gear. The bruiser mitigates 37.7% and avoids 76.8%. The guardian mitigates 49.9% and avoids 56.1%.</P> <P>Tell me why I don't see this mitigate double avoid 10% less number you monks with an agenda seem to be squealing about when you gripe about guardians.</P> <P>Basically, you have yet to back your arguments up except perception and heresay. No hard numbers, just a constant stream of one line posts full of bitterness, rumor and flamebait.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No, please do not misread me.  If being able to buff the defense skill can make players unhittable to yellows or higher, then it needs to be changed.</P> <P>That isn't good for the game, on any level and its why agility was changed.</P> <P>I don't know how Gangster got his up by 20, I can get mine up by 15 with spider stance (265 defense/deflection).<BR></P>

[Wasuna]

A 100% avoidance rating is for a even con solo mob. Group and raid mobs are toughter and anything higher level is tougher. Lets not all jump on our bankwagons again. If a Guardian can get to 100% then a monk can get higher if that is allowed.

[ugl]

<DIV>ugh</DIV> <P>Message Edited by uglak on <SPAN class=date_text>03-22-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>04:55 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by uglak on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:55 PM</span>

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>Agility wasnt changed to make monks not tank as well, it was so that scouts couldnt tank PERIOD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thats why agility was nerfed, they couldve easily made mobs stronger to hit us brawler types more often and voila balance between avoidance tanking and mitigations tanking. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>while this was merely a side effect of the agility nerf, which is why i said long time ago that they are going to have to adjust the system if they want to achieve the same level of balance again.  Deflection/mitigation will never equal mitigation in consistency and fluidity to an extent that mitigation/avoidance does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a guardian its not just the mitigation, its the combination of the two that makes them **seem** invincible or at least powered to the point of making a raid<EM> (NOT HARD).</EM> defense is the modifier for guardians avoidance. while deflection is ours. while we can still get our avoidance at level 50 to 100%...  there is still the issue of scaling.  that means 100% avoidance in comparison to another level 50 mob, without having any mob modifiers such as ^^'s or named, or x4's. etc. so when you add in </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>level 54^^^epicx4.  this is where the mitigation shines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just because a guardian can achieve those numbers in raid doesnt mean that he can solo or even 6 man a raid mob. it still takes all 24/20 or so people to achieve the desired result.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the buffs just stack in thier favor, as to in *essence* make a guardian doing the tanking, stronger in **essence** than the raid mob itself since they provide defense exclusively.  maybe if they made the buff stacking include deflection in thier stacking then maybe that would work, but i doubt they would do that on our behalf strictly.  and even still, there is no way to determine what is enough as opposed to not enough.. so if we can get our deflection to 290 and our defense to 288... maybe we will get hit, and maybe we wont. maybe it still wont be enough - heh wont know till it happened. </DIV>

[Wulfe]

<DIV>After some fast testing last night I am not sure our shielding skills work as intended. If you look at the descriptions in skills like Do or Die or Vigilance, they should increase the avoidance of the target by 35% and 38% (app4 and adept1 I have) but when casted on someone in the group they only saw minimal of 1-1,5 % increase in their avoidance stat???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said, this was just quick test while exping but it left me wondering what exactly is this skill supposed to be increasing?...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wulfeen 48 Guardian</DIV>

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Wulfeen wrote:<div></div> <div>After some fast testing last night I am not sure our shielding skills work as intended. If you look at the descriptions in skills like Do or Die or Vigilance, they should increase the avoidance of the target by 35% and 38% (app4 and adept1 I have) but when casted on someone in the group they only saw minimal of 1-1,5 % increase in their avoidance stat???</div> <div> </div> <div>Like I said, this was just quick test while exping but it left me wondering what exactly is this skill supposed to be increasing?...</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Wulfeen 48 Guardian</div><hr></blockquote> I played around briefly with these buffs the other night and from what I can tell the buffs that have a "....increase targets avoidance by xx%" are not applying that part of the buff.  The only increase that others see in their Avoidance comes from the +Defense our buffs give them. If my math is correct a increase of 35% to lets say someone with avoidance off 50% should increase their displayed avoidance by 17.5%   (35% of 50% is 17.5%) Being able to increase someones avoidance by 17% would actually be noticable and worth doing. </span><div></div>

[Sunth]

<P>Wish I got invis and FD like monks do.</P> <P>How do you balance those things against the no utility pure tank that my guardian is?</P> <P>My avoidance is around 64% with buffs and shield. With Mitigation around 1850 at 36. </P> <DIV>Also my agility is higher than my strength... if I could get equipment that raised my AC and included STR my Avoidance probably wouldn't be so high.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sunthas on <span class=date_text>03-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:17 AM</span>

[Uumuuanu]

<P>Hmm, not sure it matters, but I did some quick tests on buffs for everyone to get info from.</P> <P><BR>Unbuffed 38 Guardian wearing average gear (as profiled on EQ2Players)<BR>2896 HP<BR>1814 Mitigation<BR>61.1% Avoidance<BR>601 ATK</P> <P><BR>Buffs<BR>Do or Die (app1) <BR>increased Avoidance by .6%<BR>increased HP by 239</P> <P>Call to Battle (app1)<BR>increased avoidance by .1%<BR>increased ATK by 12</P> <P>Iron Will (app4)<BR>increased HP by 147</P> <P>Battle Tactics (Adept1)<BR>Increase HP by 186</P> <P>Call to Battle (app3)<BR>increased avoidance by .8%</P> <P>Rally Cry (adept1)<BR>increased Mitigation by  84</P> <P>Soldiers Stance (adept1)<BR>increased avoidance by .7%<BR>decreased ATK by 8</P> <P>Hunker Down<BR>increased avoidance by .8%</P> <P>Battle Cry (adept1)<BR>increased Migtigation by 162</P> <P>Hold The Line (app4)<BR>no effect on numbers</P> <P>Dig In (Adept1)<BR>decreased ATK by 11<BR>increased Mitigation by 80<BR>increased Avoidance by .8%</P> <P>Guardians Call (adept1)<BR>increased avoidance by .1%<BR>increased ATK by 12</P> <P> </P> <P>A stack of buffs as below increased to<BR>3469  HP<BR>1978  Mitigation<BR>62.6% Avoidance<BR>601  ATK</P> <P><BR>Buffs used for stack<BR>Do or Die<BR>Battle Tactics<BR>Guardian's Call<BR>Call of Command<BR>Iron Will<BR>Dig In<BR>Call to Battle<BR>Rally Cry</P> <P> </P> <P>From all of these numbers I would have to say that Guardians are definitely gear towards an HP/Mitigation standpoint as these are the biggest increase we have for our own buffs.  If we have a 62% chance of avoidance, it would be interesting to see what groups buffs from the agility class of tanks might do to us.</P> <P> </P>

[EvilIguana9]

Even though Gage is a troll with a seemingly godly amount of free time to instantly respond to threads across the whole forum in a condescending way...... he does have a point.  <div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<P>There is a simple fix, all they need to do is change Defense from adding to avoidance, and convert it into Mitigation, if that isnt enough, remove some agility from Plate Armor and compensate for that with increased Mitigation values on the armor itself. Then there is no need for game breaking revamps and crazy adjustments that will change the entire way we have played the last 5 months.</P> <P>Oh, and <STRONG><U>FIX COMBAT ARTS, ABILITIES AND SPELLS</U></STRONG> so they are working and operating as intended, with out the buff stacking.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P>

[Belce]

<DIV>Well based on the numbers you provided</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>"I'd also like to point out the only useful information I've found so far was posted by Jezekiell in the bruiser forums. Raw unbuffed numbers from a bruiser and guardian with similar(rare crafted) gear. The bruiser mitigates 37.7% and avoids 76.8%. The guardian mitigates 49.9% and avoids 56.1%."</P> <P>Out of ten chances to hit, with each hit doing 100 damage for example, the guardian would take 219.9 damage and the bruiser would sustain 144.5 damage.  </P> <P>My unbuffed values are 44.4% mitigation and 57% avoidance. </P> <P> </P></DIV>

[ThramFalc]

<P>The issue with defense is that at some point it hits a hard cap and mobs stop hitting you.  I can buff and buff and it barely adds 2%, but once my warden friend casts duststorm sending me over the cap for even cons, my avoidance jumps 30%.  For yellow cons its still closer to 60%, but add another buff or two and even that goes up to 90%+.</P> <P>The hard cap is based around the idea that a mob 6 levels below you should be trivial.  A mob 6 levels above you should be impossible.  All the skill buffs and debuffs wreak havoc on this system.  If I add 30 defense I am effectively 6 levels higher than an even con, hence the huge jump in avoidance.  They should just remove this 6 level premise they are working with and make mob effectiveness change more gradually.</P> <P>All they need to do to fix defense is smooth the curve out... instead of avoidance of 60% (+0def), 61% (+10def), 62% (+20def), 90% (+30def), make it 50%, 57%, 65%, 75% etc.  I don't think its a big deal that defense adds to avoidance.  As long as we aren't hitting the hard cap, brawlers out avoid us.  They just need to remove the hard cap and increase the incrimental benefit so it still has some use.</P> <P>If they overreact and nerf defense entirely then everyone is screwed.  Changing defense to affect mitigation is also not the answer... it makes no sense logically and just seems to be too drastic a response anyways.  We mitigate based on the armor.. whats the defense skill gonna do? give us thicker skin?</P> <P>Also, our defense buffs are for the group so anyone can reap the rewards.  </P>

[lbcre]

I'm a 36sk and I'd love to see these numbers in avoidance and mit.  I've seen INQ with feySTEEL with 2k mit/51%avo.  Mine is in the 1500's/63.9% and I've got very slighty above avarage gear...guard of grumm, prist. feyiron vanguard, and some nice jewelry pieces...lotta quest and dropped item I've found.  I'm looking at a paladin right now who has like 20 points more in mit, but 12% less in avoidance.  I feel like there has to be something in the buffs/skills that aren't working.  I'm not expecting my numbers to be like my INQ friend at 2k, but I feel like I should be a bit closer to the numbers you've posted here.  I also see spell/skill stat increases equal to or LESS then the ones you've posted here.  I think I buffed the day of patch and saw a decrease in my avoidance...but that wasn't the case the next day.  I had no idea this change was comming and I can't say I'm happy with it so far.  People I was on par with AC wise seemed to get a big margin in their mit number over mine even in similar gear...but I'm wondering if it's really class specific. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sunth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ThramFalcox wrote:<BR> <P>If they overreact and nerf defense entirely then everyone is screwed.  Changing defense to affect mitigation is also not the answer... it makes no sense logically and just seems to be too drastic a response anyways.  We mitigate based on the armor.. whats the defense skill gonna do? give us thicker skin?</P> <P>Also, our defense buffs are for the group so anyone can reap the rewards.  </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The problem was they increased the mitigation 30% on leather armor not too long ago, what they should have done is adjusted the brawler avoidance formula instead. That wouldn't fix our current issue with defense but it would have been a better direction.<BR>

[Uumuuanu]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunthas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>The problem was they increased the mitigation 30% on leather armor not too long ago, what they should have done is adjusted the brawler avoidance formula instead. That wouldn't fix our current issue with defense but it would have been a better direction.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thank you!  This is the problem with the entire concept of cross class tanking right now.   Plain and simple, plate tanks should be able to TAKE the damage either through mitigation or similar methods but will get hit.   Leather/Cloth tanks should be able to AVOID the damage and not be hit, but will take major damage if they are hit.   I don't see whats so hard about designing this concept and I dont see why its so hard for so many people to understand.</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

<P>the hard part for gaurdians to understand is why would we waste the time asking for it when it still wont be preffered or as good... when currently we can tank just fine 1-50 with the issues that stand at present,</P> <P>thats whats so hard to understand.  no matter what - consistency is always better than inconsistency. even in real life.</P>

[Gol]

<DIV>A change in only defense will totally screw up high end raid combat. And I bet they won't test this either to make sure it doesn't.</DIV>

[ThramFalc]

<P>Avoidance for Brawlers and Mitigation for other tanks seem to work fine relative to each other.  There is another thread on this board that shows the differences between the classes are just as they should be.  The problem some brawlers are having is that some heavy armor tanks can increase their avoidance to 100% in groups.  Mind you this is against even cons, but its still an issue.  This only happens when the hard cap for a mob's attack rating is hit.  If defense doesn't get to that point (and it takes 2 or 3 classes in a group to get there mind you) then everything will work as it should.</P> <P>It really is a very minor issue and they need to not overreact.  Just scale the defense effects on avoidance better so we don't jump from 60% to 90%.  I don't want +50 defense to be meaningless... but it shouldn't provide 100% avoidance.  Maybe 90% (it does take 4 or 5 classes to add that much).  Just have defense effects scale linearly and not as they currently do... problem solved.</P> <P>This will make smaller defense buffs more noticable and larger amounts less noticible but it will all be linear and it will be real easy to keep track of.  Becuase this involves the scrapping of the +-6 levels where mobs are a good match for you thing, it may involve a lot more reprogramming than I am thinking, but it seems to me this setup will be scrapped someday anyways.</P>

[Sunth]

<P>I'm afraid of the nerf bat. </P> <P>I have monk envy.</P> <P> </P>

[SageMarrow]

be afraid, be very afraid...