Trix of the Guard Trade

[Kryogen]

<DIV>Hello all due to much pressure from my friends to be our tank i decided on guardian...plus they sound fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  All i am wondering is what tips/hints can u give me to let me be the best tank i can be.  Just anything i should know that will make tanking easier and make me not look like a newb lol.  WEll thank you all in advance <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[FunkerVo]

Hey KryoMy tip for you is to remember that you are not present in the group to do damage. You are there to taunt and to protect your groups members, so preserve power for taunts, and dont think so much about lashing out damage specials all the time.You will also most probably be pulling, and a bow will be a great tool for this. Remember to stack up on arrows <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Also, look up info about sentinel, allay and stand firm - abilities that you get in the 20s as a guardian and that can be very helpful in protecting your friends.Good luck <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rokna]

<DIV>- taunt, taunt, taunt - you're supposed to take damage for your group, keep aggro, so learn when to fire your taunts - or always fire them as soon as they're ready</DIV> <DIV>- you have to decide whether to buy that "Halberd of uberness" or the "Shield of incredible toughness"? - take the shield (remember? take damage for your group)</DIV> <DIV>- you're the one running in front of all other groupmembers, so know your way - mages travelling first tend to get killed by that mob waiting around the corner :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV>- learn how to lead a group - maybe hardest part, but there will be chaos if the puller isn't the one to tell the group to run, it leads to dead mages when they run first to another spot</DIV>

[AngelR]

<DIV>I think the most important skill you can have as a Guardian, or any MT for that matter, is leadership.  Tanks are generally slotted into the "battlefield general" role... many decisions will be placed on your shoulders, and rightly so.  You need to garner the respect of your group/raid members so that they will trust those decisions.  They can't be questioning your ability to triage a large battle and select the right mobs, choose the proper positioning, set up the correct HO's (many don't know that we can set up a really nice slow with priests, it's called Crippling Shroud), *call for a retreat*, etc...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just remember, perceived skill is 10% actual ability and 90% confidence.  The days I perform the worst as a tank are the days where, for whatever reason (though it's usually because of work <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), I'm not feeling to good about myself.  A few "brown bottles of courage" usually does the trick, though. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Though by no means am I encouraging you to drink while tanking... it's a skill that takes many many years of practice. LOL)</DIV>

[Gilg]

<DIV>some of u lot tank wierd.  Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.</DIV>

[Talaga]

<blockquote><hr>Kryogenic wrote:<DIV>Hello all due to much pressure from my friends to be our tank i decided on guardian...plus they sound fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  All i am wondering is what tips/hints can u give me to let me be the best tank i can be.  Just anything i should know that will make tanking easier and make me not look like a newb lol.  WEll thank you all in advance <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote>Can't add much to what's already been said... but I can reinforce it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />TAUNT : This is your most important ability as a Guardian/Tank. Make certain that your taunts are the highest level they can be.AWARENESS : Know when to yell RUN! Keep an eye on your team's health and power bars. If your healer is out of power (OOP) before the mob is down to half-health, then tell your team to get the heck out of there, or you're going to have a group-wipe on your hands.HOTKEYS : Many players forget that they have 9 hotkey bars. It's very easy to set up a hotkey bar that is strictly used for when you're in a group, and set up another that you switch to when you're soloing. On your group hotkey bar, place all of your taunts and hate-inducing attacks together. On your solo bar, you can get rid of all of the taunts (since you don't really need them) and put your attacks all together. To change between hotkey bars, use SHIFT-#, where # is the number of the hotkey bar you want to use. (Your primary hotkey bar will change to whichever bar you choose.)Everything else the posters above me said should be taken as gospel. Get a bow and carry arrows for those "tight" pulls. Make certain that you upgrade your armor regularly. Don't let the team follow you from mob to mob... set up a camp where you will pull to. Tell the other players not to cast anything until you have full aggro. Get your healer/buffer to buff you BEFORE you pull, not during.Follow these guidelines, and learn from your mistakes (which you WILL make, just like everyone else) and you'll do just fine. Have fun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Talaga]

<blockquote><hr>GilgUK wrote:<DIV>some of u lot tank wierd.  Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.</DIV><hr></blockquote>lol... glad you're not my MT then. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If you're the MT (Main Tank) for your group, then you have one job... to keep your teammates alive. Period. If you honestly think that you can keep aggro on a mob that's being backstabbed and nuked by only using one taunt and then hacking away at it... well, like I said... glad you're not my MT.

[Cleric]

<DIV>In addition to taunting, don't forget some of your short-term group buffs, and de-buffs.  They work great as taunting tools in addition to the other benefits they provide.  Granted, some of the skills may not have noticable effects in an of themselves (it's hard to notice if we actually 'slow' a mob), but get 2 or 3 or 4 effects on a mob, and it does make a difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a guardian, I tend to find that my power goes down quicker than most other classes (most of our abilities are short-cast time, short duration, short recast).  So make sure you have good drink, so your power regens fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[epcle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilgUK wrote:<BR> <DIV>some of u lot tank wierd.  Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with GilgUK here for the most part.  I mean, I usually taunt more than once, but I generally find it is much more beneficial to do maximum damage and throw in a taunt here or there... That works best for the group, and I usually don't lose aggro.  Also, a lot of times I seemed to be grouped with idiots who don't seem to understand the benefits of provisioners food.  Hell, I almost always use it, and since my power regens about twice as fast as people that don't use it, I find I can generally afford to use all my power almost every fight, cause I'll be back at full by the time they are.  And boy does it confuse people when I use my parser to show the group the dps from the last fight, only to see the Guardian out did everyone including the scouts/mages. :smileyvery-happy:<BR>

[Rodney]

<DIV>Man I really have to wonder what game most of you are playing, anytime someone tells you that your just a meatshield and you stand there and take hits is a FOOL get a new group or kick em out.  The MT for any group is so much more then just a taunting meatshield is not funny. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The MT picks the spot where you fight, the BIGGEST ADVANTAGE you have over the mobs is the selection of where you fight, this makes or breaks the fight, you get adds you die, you dont get adds you live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The MT should be watching for adds ALL THE TIME, and move the mob when one shows up.  Where do you move the mob, hmm the smart MT will have this worked out before the fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The MT should be watching EVERYONES health and call out orders to others to cover the ones in need, zerkers are awesome of this.  How many of you know players that hit atk and zone out till the fight is over.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The MT should be watching everyones power and know when its save to pull and not safe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont spam taunts but with a new group will taunt a lot, but over time will find the best taunt rate for this group.  Every undeeded taunt is wasted power that could be used for atks.  If someone is forcing me to spam taunt then we will have a talk and he will adjust or he will be the new MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Learn your special atks and what the mob uses on you,  if this mob hits you with 400hp specials then you best be using power darining atks and let others know to do the same.  Its a real bummer to have a mob kill you with a 400hp atk at the end of a long fight because no one drained his power,  on a long fight they should have zero power by mid fight, saves a lot of power on the healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get good weapons your dps does make a difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are smart tanks and  meatshields which do you want to be?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wasuna]

<DIV>Back tot he topic...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. AC and resists are king for you. Your job is to mitigate damage and AC and resists do that. Good gear will have good HP on it so focus on AC and resists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Your there to MT not do damage. You can do OK damage if the group isn't high agro. If they are high agro then that means things are dying fast anyway so don't worry about damage. This also effects your weapon/equipment choice. You can ready the 1,000+ threads on 2H vs 1H shield combo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. Learn how to pull. Mobs are either solo or group. If they are group then you get one (1) ^^, or two (2) ^, or one (1) ^ and two no arrows, or three plus (3+) mobs. Find them before you pull and see which one is the biggest threat and target them for the pull.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Learn how to place the mobs. If mobs are behind you you can not parry or block. Learn how to place the mobs (which is hard in EQ2). Use the enviroment when you can. In Nektropos castle I'll pull and put my right side to the wall and turn 45. The mobs are always in front of me that way. If they swing around I just back up a small amount along the wall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5. Learn how to keep agro. Taunt is the obvious choice but you can keep agro with damage and single taunt on a solo mob, group taunt and group buffs on group mobs (group taunt works on solo mobs also if your agro challenged). Group buffs work better once others int he group have estabilished some agro also. After a heal or two lands and others have taken a swing or two at the monster you'll notice your group buffs doing much more for agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is much more, just like with every class but this should help.</DIV>

[Gilg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Talagand wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilgUK wrote:<BR> <DIV>some of u lot tank wierd.  Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>lol... glad you're not my MT then. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>If you're the MT (Main Tank) for your group, then you have one job... to keep your teammates alive. Period. If you honestly think that you can keep aggro on a mob that's being backstabbed and nuked by only using one taunt and then hacking away at it... well, like I said... glad you're not my MT.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well its worked amazingly well for 41 levels so far, but if you dont agree then tell the people who invite me to groups as soon as I log on that they should find a better tank.<BR>

[Fae]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilgUK wrote:<BR> <DIV>some of u lot tank wierd.  Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Not as a guardian. Not for me, anyhow, I've checked.</P> <P>Many times I've turned auto attack off, or had it off on accident, and held taunt just as well. I don't spam my taunts, as it breaks HOs. I use the right buffs, shouts and attacks when they are called for and do fine.</P> <P>Guardians are just not about damage output, period.</P> <P><U>Tips for you.</U><BR><STRONG>1.)</STRONG> Start off with shout, to get everything's attention. Use a few single taunts on the main target, and buff up. Buffs create most of my battle taunt, while shouts are snap aggro.<BR><STRONG>2.)</STRONG> Get as much Stamina and Agility gear and buffs as you can.<BR><STRONG>3.)</STRONG> Try to keep your gear at least white. If you start to get blues, greens and grey gear, you will not be able to tank as well.<BR><STRONG>4.)</STRONG> Use whatever weapon style you like. Many people will preasure you into going one way or another. The only difference is a shield will give you about 200-300 AC. Use that if you need the help, otherwise -- your call.<BR><STRONG>5.)</STRONG> If in panic /yell, sprint and run in a straight line. Tanks tend to die more then other classes, which means you'll have to serve up the coin to repair the gear. Running from a fight, letting it return to bind and then attacking with better circumstances is usually a better path -- even if you group whines, they'll appreciate not dying.<BR><STRONG>6.)</STRONG> As a tank, you are in control of how fast you gain experience. You will usually be puller, and must learn when people are ready to fight again. Don't pull if anyone is AFK or below 50% power. If the mobs are really brutal, wait until 80-100% power.<BR><STRONG>7.)</STRONG> While skills are very important, gear is more important. The difference between an app1 and app3 is noticable, but not a big deal. Getting your gear tip-top shape will cost money, and give you more benefit then a better skill you already have.</P> <P>Above all, use your noggin -- for other things than bashing.</P> <P>If you have any questions, feel free to talk to me. '<FONT color=#cc00ff><STRONG>/tell oasis.alison Hey!</STRONG></FONT>'</P> <P> </P> <P>Good luck.</P>

[Gilg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Faeye wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilgUK wrote:<BR> <DIV>some of u lot tank wierd.  Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Not as a guardian. Not for me, anyhow, I've checked.</P> <P>Many times I've turned auto attack off, or had it off on accident, and held taunt just as well. I don't spam my taunts, as it breaks HOs. I use the right buffs, shouts and attacks when they are called for and do fine.</P> <P>Guardians are just not about damage output, period.</P> <P><U>Tips for you.</U><BR><STRONG>1.)</STRONG> Start off with shout, to get everything's attention. Use a few single taunts on the main target, and buff up. Buffs create most of my battle taunt, while shouts are snap aggro.<BR><STRONG>2.)</STRONG> Get as much Stamina and Agility gear and buffs as you can.<BR><STRONG>3.)</STRONG> Try to keep your gear at least white. If you start to get blues, greens and grey gear, you will not be able to tank as well.<BR><STRONG>4.)</STRONG> Use whatever weapon style you like. Many people will preasure you into going one way or another. The only difference is a shield will give you about 200-300 AC. Use that if you need the help, otherwise -- your call.<BR><STRONG>5.)</STRONG> If in panic /yell, sprint and run in a straight line. Tanks tend to die more then other classes, which means you'll have to serve up the coin to repair the gear. Running from a fight, letting it return to bind and then attacking with better circumstances is usually a better path -- even if you group whines, they'll appreciate not dying.<BR><STRONG>6.)</STRONG> As a tank, you are in control of how fast you gain experience. You will usually be puller, and must learn when people are ready to fight again. Don't pull if anyone is AFK or below 50% power. If the mobs are really brutal, wait until 80-100% power.<BR><STRONG>7.)</STRONG> While skills are very important, gear is more important. The difference between an app1 and app3 is noticable, but not a big deal. Getting your gear tip-top shape will cost money, and give you more benefit then a better skill you already have.</P> <P>Above all, use your noggin -- for other things than bashing.</P> <P>If you have any questions, feel free to talk to me. '<FONT color=#cc00ff><STRONG>/tell oasis.alison Hey!</STRONG></FONT>'</P> <P> </P> <P>Good luck.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, I bow down to your level 21 knowledge of Guardians.<BR>

[Xaviou]

Saw that coming a mile away.... she should've too.

[Lamprey_02]

Seeing as the original poster is just starting his guardian, the advice he gets from the 21 folks like Alison will be a lot more benefit than something that applies to lvl 41. Of course, if you're talking about the 20s you would have no reason to bash Alison's post since both she and you experienced them; heck, she experienced them more recently and is likely more qualified to comment on them than is your weeks-old recollection.As for the substance, taunting just once per fight is silly if you have good DPS classes. I grouped with a 29 ranger today in Varsoon's (I'm lvl 27) and I'd lose agro halfway through the fight to her, if not sooner if I only taunted once and then focused on dmg. However, with 3-4 taunts and a few taunting blows I held it just fine. The ranger ran a parser and would list every group member's damage, damage taken, and DPS after each fight. Letting the ranger go all out while I worked for my agro meant her DPS was over 30% higher for the fight, as opposed to when she had to control her agro. The other monk and the assassin went similarly nuts since they all got into competition mode, seeing their DPS displayed on the fly. End result, excellent exp.In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27.

[Gilg]

<DIV>or you could have used 2 or 3 taunts and your damage skills still kept agro and have dont 30% more dmg.</DIV>

[Fae]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilgUK wrote:<BR> <DIV>or you could have used 2 or 3 taunts and your damage skills still kept agro and have dont 30% more dmg.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> If you know what you're doing, you shoudln't have any problem doing damage and taunting. Heck, some damage is taunt. There is no one right way to do things.

[Belce]

<DIV>I thought Alison's points are valid for guardians.  I mean really, you don't even have to play a guardian to have a clue to how they are played and played well.  </DIV>

[StanleyBostit]

At 23 i find that pulling with the debuff group taunt or the regular group taunt will work fine if you cycle through attacks like mangle, wound, concusion, knee break, slam, and the last one that i can't think of because i'm too tired and then use the group taunt again. Also i'm a fan of combat buffing since i seem to always have my buffs run out at the wrong times. The only problem i ever have is with a friend of mine who is a fury. She sometimes lags and starts healing everything and anything and manages to peel the agro right off of me. Other than that i don't really use much of my power considering i'm a provisioner and always have something to drink/eat. One thing that wasn't mentioned(i think) but is really helpful and obvious...USE HO'S. If you're soloing or grouping and manage to get Hero's armor you will be godly for about three minutes. At 23 i can break 2k AC with just my own buffs and heros armor.

[Talaga]

<blockquote><hr>Lamprey_02 wrote:Seeing as the original poster is just starting his guardian, the advice he gets from the 21 folks like Alison will be a lot more benefit than something that applies to lvl 41. Of course, if you're talking about the 20s you would have no reason to bash Alison's post since both she and you experienced them; heck, she experienced them more recently and is likely more qualified to comment on them than is your weeks-old recollection.As for the substance, taunting just once per fight is silly if you have good DPS classes. I grouped with a 29 ranger today in Varsoon's (I'm lvl 27) and I'd lose agro halfway through the fight to her, if not sooner if I only taunted once and then focused on dmg. However, with 3-4 taunts and a few taunting blows I held it just fine. The ranger ran a parser and would list every group member's damage, damage taken, and DPS after each fight. Letting the ranger go all out while I worked for my agro meant her DPS was over 30% higher for the fight, as opposed to when she had to control her agro. The other monk and the assassin went similarly nuts since they all got into competition mode, seeing their DPS displayed on the fly. End result, excellent exp.In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27.<hr></blockquote>Good advice. How you MT when you're in a pick-up group, and how you MT when you're playing with guildmates who know each others' playstyle, will be completely different. If you focus on doing your JOB, rather than trying to stroke your own ego, then everybody in your team will be safer, happier, and will advance faster.The worst teams are those that consist of people who are trying to be something that they weren't designed to be.

[DecisiveFor]

<DIV>You dont know what u are talking about, sorry!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GilgUK that is!  At 41st lvl how can you stste one taunt is enough LOL.</DIV><p>Message Edited by DecisiveForce on <span class=date_text>01-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:16 PM</span>

[Noah]

<DIV>I like cheese.</DIV>

[FunkerVo]

<DIV>I really hope Kryo stopped reading this thread after a few posts hehe</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Too much info for a person just starting a guardian will be overwhelmed, even though we all mean well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>Keep it simple in the beginning, then if you are comfortable with it, you can take lead, pull smart, learn tricks of what does most aggro and when to cast the different arts for best result <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still stand by my opinion that the main role of MT (and usually the guardian) is to taunt and keep the team alive ... how you do this however, is debatable and thus should be taken to another thread <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[DecisiveFor]

<DIV>Rodney you talk a lot of sense, & i agree with most of what you said. But other grp members play many of those roles too and should, the healer watches for HP drain, & while surveying the group from away from the melee he/she can watch for adds, as can the mages. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Clearly positioning is important etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warnings to the group can come from anyone, instructions should come from the leader or chaos ensues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the MT has to get Agro & Protection right foremost. If he/she is also the leader more of your very good points come into play.</DIV>

[DecisiveFor]

<DIV>Its not about ones level its about application of ones experience, logic, and intelligence. Someone may be 50th level & very intelligent, but if they cannot apply their knowledge correctly its useless. However, as you can see others support your views to a degree.</DIV>

[Arsen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR><BR>In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.<BR><BR>Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is exactly the right thing to do.  The exact point of how much you have to taunt and how much you should focus on damage will be a bit different for each group of people you are in - you have to be smart enough to find the right balance.</P> <P>I have also found that if I spend power on doing damage, then I have to rest more in between pulls.  Where as if we have a good group and the DPS people are doing their job, I can be very power-effecient with my taunts and just chain pull at a very fast rate.  Guardians can do decent damage, but it takes a good amount of power to do so - the downtime isn't worth it if you have better damage dealers in your group.  Nothing will make a group happier than a chain pulling guardian who doesn't require a lot of heals and who never looses aggro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[Gilg]

</FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Its impossible to argue with all the level 20 masters in this thread, but I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll keep going.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Half the advice in this thread is crap, wait till healer is 80% before pulling, spam taunt, learn how to use all your skills, all this stuff is bollocks this all all you need to do:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P> <HR> Nothing will make a group happier than a chain pulling guardian who doesn't require a lot of heals and who never looses aggro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P> <P><BR> <HR> </P> <P> </P> <P>50% of our skills are a waste of time, they take too long to cast and have no real use.  Just pulling with taunt, or entrench then taunt,  and then doing damage with an occasional taunt is sufficient for 90% of encounters.  About the only time you ever lose agro is if you just melee without doing and damage skills, now admittedly there are problems getting agro back when you do lose it but thats a different subject.  </P> <P> </P> <P>Now if I can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills for rest of fight, but another guardian uses 10 taunts and no dmg skills which is the better for a group?</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Arsen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilgUK wrote:<BR></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Now if I can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills for rest of fight, but another guardian uses 10 taunts and no dmg skills which is the better for a group?<BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It honestly depends - if you end the fight OOP and everyone has to wait for you before starting the next encounter then you are better off using your taunts more frequently and letting people with better power/damage ratio attacks to do their work.</P> <P>No one is discounting your experiences (even though you are discounting everyone elses) but I honestly have trouble believing you can use your one super taunt and hold aggro in every situation (which skill is this anyway?). Even your paragraph above mentions using the occassional taunt throughout the fight - which I think is what most of us are advising.</P> <P>Btw, I also have heard that after we get Entrench, you can change your tactics to some degree to take advantage of that.  That doesn't mean that you can ignore all the other tactis pre level 32 though.  The original poster is lower in level and insisting that low-mid level tactics are 'crap' just because they don't apply to you is pretty silly.</P> <p>Message Edited by Arsenal on <span class=date_text>01-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[Gilg]

<DIV>you basically get the same skills from levels 1 to 50 so tactics hardly change theres no difference between a level 15^^ and a level 40^^ mob with regards to how you fight it.  You taunt it, group attacks it, mob dies, rinse and repeat for 50 levels. The only difference comes with group x2 etc mobs and even then its not like its hard to hold agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the right drink, and a good group you dont run out of power.  Ofcourse if you dont have these factors you use less power, but then so does the rest of the group so the amount of taunting needed scales.</DIV>

[Gilg]

<DIV>oh yeh the skill is apprentice 2 suppress. So its not even like I'm using some master level taunt.</DIV>

[Belce]

<DIV>Currently I am leveling up a warrior to play with my friends, they are currently 20, illusionist, swashbuckler and templar and me am 16 warrior.  When we group together we tend to do stuff that is just blue group mobs to them.  My job is maintaining agro against stuff that all cons orange/red to me and comes in single ^^ to 5 plains.  Hold the line was a great addition to my skill set when it arrived and even better with alacrity from the illusionist.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that getting into a group with people so much higher, its a 25% lvl difference is hard, but you do learn alot about what all of our skills can do and how to make best use when you are forced to fight above your weight.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In our encounters, the scout pulls and then I will cast my melee buff and you can see all the mobs peel off her and turn to me, yes it only adds 4 points or less than 0.5% skill to me, but it made the difference, now set htl and then start a HO and follow with rallying cry, yet another small buff, but big agro.  For those pesky healer types that heal themself close to the end a nice shield bash to interrupt is good, I hate fighting down that last quarter again.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do I use taunt more than once?  Most definitely, it comes up often in HO chances, mine and others.  Anyone that says they aren't is not doing those and could do harder stuff with the correct discpline.  Its great working in a group with all 4 archtypes for that reason.  Is that tuant needed to maintain agro, not always.  Casting htl is a taunt, casting one of your combat masteries like gnoll mastery is a taunt, and by that I mean a pure taunt and not the sort you get from doing a buff. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do I use my dps skills? For sure, I use them to help progress mine and other players HO chances and also when an HO is up that I can't contribute to.  Remember, there is open wheel and closed wheel for HO's, when it is open you will cancel it if your skill use is not up there, but when the wheel closes and before it completes, anything you do will not impact the HO.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Food and drink, well I am working toward provisioner so I am going to preach.  Player made food and drink is your consistent source of quality regen rates for hp and power and it is important that you use stuff appropriate for your lvl, there is a big jump for each tier, but from past experience I know that getting 20, 30 is expensive and there are things you need, while in your low lvls of a new tier, the previous lvl stuff will do well for you.  Plus player made food and drink lasts longer, about 1 hour or longer compared to 30 minutes for vendor crap.  The regen rate for player stuff is 50% better than the appropriate tier vendor item for you, and 100% better than summoned stuff. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Use your group's member status bars to influence how you fight.  Those bars provide alot of info, how hard they are working, if they are getting hit and need help.  If you have agro and your power is lower than the others, then back off a bit on specials, if you have power to burn and they don't step it up a bit.  Its not good for the group to have 1 person drained at the end of the fight and everyone good to go, you wnat to have similiar recovery times for all group members.  This isn't something that is as easy as the above, players can be frivilous with their power use and other things and its a group thing, but you want to do your job and have your recovery time fit in well with the other group members.  Everyone gets a 4% recovery per tick for hp and power plus their food/drink return out of combat.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I use all my skills and need to  be successful when in such a group fighting above my weight.  They all add to my success in doing my job.  I will eventually catch my friends in lvl and then I will still use all of my skills because I have found them to work for me.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the best guardian trick of the trade is,  Stand in front of a few good blokes. </DIV>

[Curati]

<DIV>on mobs that are White-Orange con, I cycle through all my different taunts then i do other stuff...if the fight is lasting a while and a lot of nuking and healing is happening then I will press all of my taunts again...basicaly i do one full set of taunts then I fight for about 25-30 seconds, if the mob is not dead then i do it again and I especialy pay attention to taunting any adds right away to make sure i am the most hated guy there. I uasually take charge of a group but I tell my main healer to judge the run call since they are usually hanging back a bit and can see what is happening better. I then stay with the mobs afer the "run call" while the rest of the group beats feet.</DIV>

[saeben]

ok...ok...ok...first off there is alot of good advice on this thread. Your job as a Gaurdian is to protect you group members. Period.Now the way that that happens is by using your head. The most important way to do that is to manage aggro. Now this is totally situtational (sp?), are you fighting groups mobs or ^^ singles or mixed? There are different ways to handle each situation and some ways are more effective than others. Over time you will develop your own style and find tactics that will work for you. this is what i do...I solo alot about 80% of every lvl currently lvl 27. So i focus on maxing AC/parry/dps. So i have all my main attack skills at adept 1 or 3. everything eles at least app3. so am i gimped in a group...no. whereas some ppl spam thier taunts I do a aoe taunt at the beginning of the fight and dont touch it again unless there are adds or somone else grabs aggro. Everyone in the group assists MT and we drop the mobs one at a time. If I am MT i all most always use a shield. otherwise 2h or dw.i find in most pick up groups i can easily out dmg most dps classes. And can take aggro away from higher lvl tanks just through dps. (i wait till MT does a few taunts and establishes aggro before attacking , so its not that im going all out attack mode as soon as the mob gets pulled to the group).it so much depends on what you are fighting and what you got in your group. so the only real advice here is to learn what your skills do and how YOU want to use them, and learn what your group members can do and use it all to the groups advantage...Ohh yeah, remember everyone makes mistakes...and sometimes your mistake can wipe the group.

[Belce]

<DIV>When it comes to power use you really need to look at the power use of everyone in the group compared to yours.  Ideally it should be similiar to the others in your group.  If you consistently have more or less than everyone else, then adjust what you are doing and still able to do your job, this applies to any and all in a group.  All of the people in the group come with hit points and power and all of those are resources to be used for the success of the group.  If the last mob in an encounter is almost dead and starts on the healer, instead of taking time to taunt it off, kill it, the use of skills is situational.  </DIV>

[Dart]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>You all got it wrong!</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>Here is what I do.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>I let the group know that I am the MT king by proudly displaying my cow bell collection.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>I then tell the healers to be sure to heal me when I get hit.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>Then I will proceed to instruct the scout in my group to not follow my HO opener because my solo chain IS the most effective!</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>Everyone else just understand they are there to support me</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>Ok now for the meat and tatters of it all.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>When I pull I whip out my cow bells run up to a group of mobs or solo mob and ring my cow bell real hard in its ear. This is a sure attention getter! Then I jump the whole way back to my group because when your in mid air you cant be hit. I then use my barb trait to make my hands glow so the mob/mobs know I mean business! At this point everyone in my group is waiting to attack until I call engage, cool trick I learned in EQlive. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>Well at this point the mobs are dying by my DWing daggers as I am taking no damage because I'm jumping all the time! Rem what I said earlier about jumping lots.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>After several of my uber HO's the mobs are near dead, I instruct the group to Engage! to help me clean up the last few or the last 25% of the mobs health.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>So as you can see the guardian is the best tank in EQ2, bar none. We have uber DPS, our AC is king!</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>At the end of the night, I allow the group to parade me back to town showering me with all the phat lewts because they know without their trusting guardian tank this never would have happened. They would have all been stuck doing TS'ing for my needs.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>Anyhow I figured I should get you all to come correct and share my vast experience so you all can be Cow bell kings like me.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>BTW: if you are on perma frost check my auction for the leet cow bells, they will cost you but I'm here to tell ya they make it all happen.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=101451518-12012005>Cheers~ </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Nerb]

<DIV>I have done some testing of the effects of different powers on agro, and as I get higher in levels, I'm tending to side with GilgUK at this point (level 33). From the testing I've done, it appears that the damage powers give almost the same taunt as the pure taunt powers anyway, and Guardian dps is not negligable even if it is lower than other damage doers. For instance, suppress (single target taunt/debuff attack speed) gives basically the same amount of aggro as ruin (single target damage/debuff attack) for about the same power cost and recharge time against a single mob, and strangely, ruin actually appears to give MORE agro against other mobs in the encounter. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against single pulls I suppress (single target taunt) on pull, but then only use damage/debuff powers. I do not use my group buffs normally during fights because the power cost is too high for me to be recasting them before they run out, and they don't give as much agro as I originally believed them to (battle tactics appears to give only about 1/4 the aggro of suppress when in a group of 2 people. I'm not sure if the aggro increases if you are buffing a larger group or not). I do however use my short term ac group buff during more difficult fights for a bit more agro and the extra ac it provides (which is significant).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against larger pulls, I hit ae taunt and ae damage whenver they are up (avoid ae damage if grouping with enchanter of course), but otherwise go for damage also since damage appears to give more agro against other mobs in the encounter than single target taunts do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you lose agro, shield bash and it's successors appear to be very good at regaining it for some reason even though they do not create a ton of aggro against an opponent which is already on you. I use bull rush (shield bash replacement), suppress, then damage and regain it much faster than I used to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway. The testing I have done is not definitive, but it does make me believe that some of our preconcieved notions of how aggro works in this game may not be totally correct, and controlling aggro in runnyeye in the 30s is harder than controlling it in FG in the 20s was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think GilgUK is probably mostly correct even if he doesn't give the most polite explanations <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Atanvar]

<blockquote><hr>GilgUK wrote:<DIV>some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Most guardians will be out damaged quickly by the mage, or the thief archetypes... or the priest archetype healing will pull hate away.No, the guardian good at his craft will be a taunting fool, and he'll have Hold The Line up if necessary, and Sentinel on his MH as well.

[lecktron]

<DIV>OK, I will offer my 2 cents, take it or leave it, but it works for me and my groups...  (only applicable if I am MT)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>KNOW YOUR SKILLS FIRST OF ALL.... Know what they do and when to use them.</DIV> <DIV>EQUIPMENT IS IMPORTANT... get a good shield and the best DPS 1hb/s you can afford.</DIV> <DIV>DON'T WORRY ABOUT KILLING .... Let the others kill, just help them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <OL> <LI>I PULL... NOBODY ELSE.... I will pull to the same location and arrange myself in the same position each time so the backstabbers know where to be.</LI> <LI>When I pull, I rarely lose aggro using this method.</LI> <OL> <LI>When pulling mobs from 1-4 mobs in size, I target the one I want down 1st. Either tag em with my bow or use shouting cry (best aggro getter at my level)</LI> <LI>After tagging, I run to my spot and hit hold the line. (if I used bow to pull I now hit shouting cry, of not anger and taunt)</LI> <LI>After shouting cry, anger, and taunt are used I proceed to fight as if I was not the MT. ( hold the line adds to the hate each round, so I do not lose mobs...)</LI> <LI>After each mob goes down, I cast anger on new mob and so on....</LI> <LI>For my Attacks, I normally rotate through MAIM, KNEE BREAK, and SHIELD BASH.</LI></OL></OL> <P>This method is how I do business at level 29 Guardian and works most of the time, if there is a chanter in the group, I change the style a little. If the chanter is to live, I ask the group not to help me for a couple rounds of taunting the mezzed mobs 1st.</P> <P>Sometimes a larger group may have one or two wander to my cleric, I cast sentinel on the cleric and target the mobs, cast shouting cry and normally they join the others in bashing me again.</P> <P>Dont use it much, but rescue is great in emergencies where there are adds and you need to get aggro from them as well as the original group.</P> <P> </P> <P>Torlaan<BR>29 Guardian / 44 Alchemist<BR>Blackburrow - http://www.blackburrow.net</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by lecktronix on <span class=date_text>01-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:08 PM</span>

[Gilg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Atanvarno wrote:<BR><BR></P> <P>Most guardians will be out damaged quickly by the mage, or the thief archetypes... or the priest archetype healing will pull hate away.<BR><BR>No, the guardian good at his craft will be a taunting fool, and he'll have Hold The Line up if necessary, and Sentinel on his MH as well.<BR></P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Suprisingly enough mages will very rarely outdamage a guardian and rogues barely do.  Ofcourse this is down to damage shield and proc buffs aswell as your own damage skills.  However it all adds to your agro, so if you're losing agro to mages and rogues, get a decent weapon.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hold the line is never really necessary, mainly coz I'm not convinced it adds to group encounter agro, and so if I ever lose agro in a group encounter I wanna be able to move.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sentinel is pointless.</DIV>

[Arsen]

<DIV>HTL definitely affects the entire group of monsters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How effective HTL is after it greys out could be a completely different story though - keep in mind it is a level 15 spell so the higher level skills may completely eclipse its affect even if they aren't pure taunts.<BR></DIV>

[Gilg]

<DIV>are you sure it affects the whole encounter, the only time i ever lost agro on an encounter was when I used HTL.</DIV>

[AngelR]

<DIV>The "taunt" spell effect (red explosion-type thing on the mobs' heads) shows on each mob in the encounter when HTL fires.  This shocked me at first, because the initial description of the spell I had read didn't mention it being encounter-AE.  I have since read descriptions, including in the Prima guide (though by no means do I consider that definitive) that it does indeed affect the whole encounter.  It seems to work for me. <shrug>  I usually plant myself with it right after using Shouting Cry, and just before I do the group buff cycle.  Mind you, I group almost exclusively with a bunch of friends with whom I played EQ1 for 5+ years, so we all kinda know how to act in a group situation, but I rarely lose aggro during these group encounters.  I'm only 23, but HTL is already greyed out (Adept 1)... but it still seems to work well for me (I know there was some discussion as to whether it is worthwhile once it goes grey).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[AgentAce]

<DIV>I dont think I saw this, and if it wasnt mentioned I am suprised.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First, you can spam taunt a little more now than you could in eq1 but, make sure you have somthing ncase you do lose aggro, that you can use to take it back without having to wait for abilities to refresh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some  of the most important parts of being a tank is having a sharp mind, a pair of brass balls, and a heart of gold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are losing aggro, try and figure out why. If its you, correct it. If you keep losing aggro to the same person however, its probably not your doing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you do get into a situation where lets say Wizzy A is overnuking, dont yell, and dont mention it in group. Send them a tell and tell them you are having trouble keeping aggro with them nuking so much. The more they think its you being inadaquate than them screwing up, the more inclined they are to do what you ask.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[AgentAce]

<DIV> <DIV>I dont think I saw this, and if it wasnt mentioned I am suprised.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First, you can spam taunt a little more now than you could in eq1 but, make sure you have somthing ncase you do lose aggro, that you can use to take it back without having to wait for abilities to refresh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some  of the most important parts of being a tank is having a sharp mind, a pair of brass balls, and a heart of gold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are losing aggro, try and figure out why. If its you, correct it. If you keep losing aggro to the same person however, its probably not your doing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you do get into a situation where lets say Wizzy A is overnuking, dont yell, and dont mention it in group. Send them a tell and tell them you are having trouble keeping aggro with them nuking so much. The more they think its you being inadaquate than them screwing up, the more inclined they are to do what you ask.</DIV></DIV>

[Chucksinge]

<DIV><BR>Two things to add:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Positioning:  Try and get only yourself in front of the mob.  Anyone who is in front of the mob can have their attacks parried and riposted.  Also, anyone in front of the mob can get hit by forward AEs.  Get everyone else behind the mob.  I know it shouldn't be our job to control the positioning of everybody in the party, but we do what we can.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Level.  Your best defense is to be higher level.  If the mob cons white, then you can hit it and hit it well. If the mob cons yellow, then you can hit it OK and for a good amount.  If the mob cons orange, you can maybe hit it and for a decent amount.  If the mob is red, you're gonna have a really hard time hitting it.   And the same is true vice versa.  If you con white to the mob, it can hit you well.. yadda yadda yadda.   The point is, you probably want to be  one of the higher-leveled members of your group.  If you are lvl 20 and grouped with 4 level 25 scouts, well, that just isn't a good situation.  Holding aggro is going to be hard because a yellow mob to you will con blue to the scouts, and the scouts will hit it more and for more and take aggro away from you.  Still.. the best xp in the game comes from yellow cons to you, so pick your battles and group members carefully.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anaximandar</DIV> <DIV>37 G</DIV><p>Message Edited by Chucksinger3 on <span class=date_text>01-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 PM</span>

[Belce]

<DIV>Actually, I think that mob positioning relative to the group is our job.  We control target selection, we control agro, we should also place those targets to better enable the fight.  I want the mob between me and my casters/dps groupmates and that doesn't happen unless you decide to make it happen.  The natural thing is the mob is front and your group behind.  Having the mob between you and them allows you to see and react quickly to those changes and much better than if you relied on chat or hit point bars to do so.  You are tanking those mobs to protect those that are killing it, you do better when you can see it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I call this the Belce Move.  <A href="http://freespace.virgin.net/c.hogg/Team/manners.html" target=_blank>http://freespace.virgin.net/c.hogg/Team/manners.html</A>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well not really, I think that putting the mob in the donut hole of your group to be most obvious thing to do to help insure success that its like claiming the sunrise.  But it is a huge thing and back in 2000 so many people did the mob, melee, healer/caster lines.  Its still an issue today with some.  Donut hole your mobs, group sees everything around them, see all the agro changes as they happen.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you for pointing that out Chuck. </DIV>

[Dekan]

<blockquote><hr>Belce wrote:<DIV>Actually, I think that mob positioning relative to the group is our job. We control target selection, we control agro, we should also place those targets to better enable the fight.<hr></blockquote>Actually, in my regular I don't control target selection. In my pickup groups I usually do, but thats because it's too difficult to explain a new system. But, for complete efficiency in regular groups, I let our biggest dmg dealer chose the target to die first. (We dont normally have a chanter with us, but if we did, not much would change.). I simply cycle thru all the mobs in the encounter and taunt each one, give it a couple whacks and move on the other. Then I'll assist off our wizard and help bring down mobs 1 by 1.For instance, I'll pull a 4 mob encounter:-Tag with arrow-Smothering Cry on the way in-Call to Battle-Suppress on target-Taunting Challenge on 2nd-Taunting Blow on 3rd-Suppress on the last-Do or Die/Call of Command/etc if needed-Assist wizardI never lose aggro.

[Saradine]

<DIV>One of the things I that might not have been mentioned is friends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The single most important thing to being a good gaurd is good friends/guildmates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In every game I have played this is true, the tank is the back bone of a group, but you have to have the other part for a good group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I (for the most part) only group within my guild. We all use teamspeak and have played other games together. My wife is my templar and sits right next to me so we have good communication LOL (I get slapped alot LOL)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>besides all the tech stuff and stats and all that...here are a few things I would toss on this pile</DIV> <DIV>1. Group with peeps that know how to play. Everyone says the assist...thats bull crap. you always get one DPS goon that gets killed because he was attacking a different one than you were taunting/tanking. Gently beat their heads in with a mace to keep you targeted so they are ALWAYS attacking what you attack. Even when you get that add and have to switch to pick him up...everyone switches.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Get a good guild. I say voice chat is a must for these games. (dont flame I know there are guilds that work fine without it...but you would be better with it) Voice chat is a faster way to ask pointers in your guild or get feedback...alot of times people dont want to type all that out so they just say forget it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. If you are in a pick up group that sucks don't be affraid to leave if they do not listen. Mostly you are the one that is going to be heading to the mender after a bad group cause they can run off. And I would rather go craft then pay off debt built from stupid people. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Did I mention people don't assist? Oh and watch for the morons with a blue AOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5. Other than that just the normal stuff...gear, taunt, and so forth.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The people you group with will greatly effect the fun you have.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Saradine on <span class=date_text>01-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:47 AM</span>

[Belce]

<DIV>I am surprised that you could even post that.  I guess we have to respect your courage and the fact you are umm comfortable with yourself, but I am sure I am not the only one that is surprised that you allow some finger waggling old guy in a nightshirt to run your fight, I mean really... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess there is a diversity of ways to do things and if you find it successful, then great.  Its good that we can talk here and get ideas and consider different ways of doing things, even those things that involve that... I hope its not an Eurdian, that would be just so wrong.. <shivers> :smileywink:</DIV>

[Cod]

<DIV>I find what gilguk says to be true, even at lower levels.  We do pretty good damage so were not far behind the other classes, so i don't need to taunt all the time.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do spam the aoe taunt against groups so the aoe types and heals don't peal the mobs off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level does seem to matter as another poster said if the mobs are orange to me and blue to the dps people there more likely to gain agro as there damage is hitting for max and mine isn't.  So I need to taunt more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mostly i don't won't to be seen as a bad tank, so if I'm unsure ill toss in more taunts to make sure i don't lose agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Owlbears cause me difficulties though, as they seem to stun me like crazy so i like to generate as much agro as possible so i can keep it while spending a lot of time stunned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a real tough fight I also like to get a huge amount of agro at outset, in case healer can't keep up with heals and i start to slide deep into the red zone so i can use hunker down and not lose agro if necessary.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 23 guardian here.</DIV>

[Gilg]

<DIV>theres a bug with certain mobs where we 1st mob dies you instantly lose agro.  Owlbears are one of these mobs.</DIV>