why does our ability to hold aggro suck?

[Pronst]

it really does. you group us with another melee class and they will take the aggro from us 100% of the time. so are guardian abilities broken or just not effective? i'm thinking the latter for most

[Kyd]

<DIV>I have never had a problem holding or taking aggro. I can take it and keep it if I the situation called for it as a 29 Guardian.</DIV>

[Tommy_Boy9]

<DIV>No our ability to hold aggro doesn't suck.  YOUR ability to hold aggro sucks.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tommy_Boy911 on <span class=date_text>12-11-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 AM</span>

[Erronn]

<DIV>I don't know if the original poster if just a troll, or actually has aggro problems....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But our ability to hold aggro does NOT suck if we use those abilities...that is, we can't just let melee damage and an occassional "taunt" hold the aggro. We have to conciously and vigorously apply hate to keep it. Throw on group buffs, mob debuffers, hate-type hits, etc etc as much as you can to add hate. Experiment with different abilities to see what does best. Personally, group buffs early in the fight work best for me....I use power on them rather than the more dps type abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians can hold aggro...if they play it right <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Pronst]

well, i'm a 30 guardian. and the only time i can hold aggro 100% of the time is when i'm the only melee class in the group/raidwe have alot of tools for holding it, they are not as effective as the other melee classes' abilities

[Pronst]

oh look, i'm not the only person who thinks so. other thread also got dev responsehttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=10969#M10969

[EQ2Shil]

<DIV>Simple answer to this is ... agro management is a group responsibility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no problem holding agro with other melees in the group if: -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) They dont engage the mobs until I get a chance drop in my encounter wide taunt, i.e. Shouting Cry.</DIV> <DIV>2) They use their agro management skills correctly, scout types all have detaunts as do most fighter types.</DIV> <DIV>3) They assist on the same target as me, i.e. the one that is recieving the majority of the taunting.</DIV> <DIV>4) They dont use multi-target attacks/debuffs too much or too early in the fight.</DIV> <DIV>5) They drop short duration buffs on just before I pull or after 10 seconds of the fight have passed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 29 I have no problem holding taunt if the other group members do the above.</DIV>

[Moontayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pronstar wrote:<BR>oh look, i'm not the only person who thinks so. other thread also got dev response<BR><BR>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=10969#M10969<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Telling the idiot not to spam the forums or his post count will be set to 0. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I've only been outaggroed once in the last three levels when I'm actively trying to keep and hold all the mobs on me. Once. You're doing something wrong.</P>

[0ctavi]

<DIV>I have no problem holding taunt when I am conciously attempting to do so. It has a lot to do with skill-level of each skill you are using as well as applying such skill in the right combination or at the right time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However I HAVE noticed that once you lose aggro, it can be difficult to get it back. My suggestion would be to learn how to get it at the beginning of the fight, and then just keep it. We have numerous skills as Guardians that enable us to keep our hate going. Use Guardians Call at the beginning of every fight, as well as Call to Arms, and things seem fine. Hold the Line helps too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tend to just say flat out at the beginning of any group that I am tanking, not to use group heals or buffs at the beginning of a pull. Use them after a few seconds into the fight, or before the pull... And if you are losing aggro because of dmg output, you may need to look into what you are using. In a test with an equal equipped paladin, I had him use ONE taunt, and I didn't use any. I stole aggro back early on in the fight just by my dmg output per hit. It seems like maximum dmg PER HIT (not total dps) makes a slight difference. That is why 2 handers are nice (even though a shield can be useful when tanking)</DIV>

[Axterix]

<DIV>Between Shout and Hold the Line, I generally have little issue with holding aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I like to do is, after popping on Hold the Line, firing off an AE attack.  Since HtL's taunt is AE and can proc on any melee hit...that usually gives me a nice lead on everyone else.  Just gotta be careful there are no mobs around you don't want to hit.  And then with about 20 seconds of the fight left, I cancel hold the line so it'll be ready at the start of the next one (assuming I have to move to pull the next set).</DIV>

[Erronn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Axterix wrote:<BR> <DIV>Since HtL's taunt is AE and can proc on any melee hit...that usually gives me a nice lead on everyone else.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually, note that the Hold the Line icon has a green background. This means it is an "encounter wide" affect, not completely AE. Like Shout, and Shouting Cry...green for encounter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Compare this with Assault, which has a blue background - AE attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thus, don't be afraid about using Hold the Line amongst other mobs (non-kos, of course)...</DIV>

[Syraxen]

<DIV>On a single mob if you cant 'hold' agro then your doing something wrong.</DIV>

[GenesisForgot]

<DIV>long as no zerkers around holding aggro is easy... unless we fighting chain stunning goblins in EL or whatevers. =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just pull with a tuant, hit a group taunt, hit HTL, use an AE attk like bury or some other dmg abilities and you should be good. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, Nektulos has bugged aggro and monsters run all over at the first death so that could cause major problems.</DIV>

[Makkaio]

<DIV>It's not if zerkers are around, it's how you play the guardian and zerker team.  Our abilities to hold agro do not suck.  If you are having problems, tell your group to allow you to do the initial taunt or long-range pull.  If it is a mob group, make sure to use your group taunt.  Also, if you are grouped with anyone using a power or health buff over time, tell them to shut it off.  A bard's power regeneration, for example, will generate a LOT of hate toward the bard every time it ticks.  Learned that the hard way in SH.  The heals over time are meant to be used toward the end of an encounter to make for less downtime.  It's tough to give advice on what you are complaining about if all you do is post that it sucks.</DIV>

[Ainm]

You won't have any problems holding aggro on a mob over a berserker so long as they do not use Bloodlust. In my experience, any class can do whatever they want, and you should be able to hold aggro just fine. My typical pulling scenario is pull with Anger, Battle Cry on the run back to the group, Shouting Cry when the mob or mobs get into camp, then Call of Command, Guardian's Call, and Battle Tactics. Then use all the other debuffing abilities you have and then focus on damage abilities. After all that mess of buffs, aggro on the mob will be trivial, indeed. It's one reason they really need to fix buff aggro. It makes aggro management very trivial.

[Axterix]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Erronn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Axterix wrote:<BR> <DIV>Since HtL's taunt is AE and can proc on any melee hit...that usually gives me a nice lead on everyone else.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually, note that the Hold the Line icon has a green background. This means it is an "encounter wide" affect, not completely AE. Like Shout, and Shouting Cry...green for encounter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Compare this with Assault, which has a blue background - AE attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thus, don't be afraid about using Hold the Line amongst other mobs (non-kos, of course)...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yup, another fun reason to use our AEs with HtL.  Lets you get off taunts across encounters, making HtL a truly AE taunt...every so often <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>