Guardians 40+

[Reol]

<DIV>Any Guardians that are 40+, how do you feel about your class, do you feel you are coming into your own or are you still feeling the need to have some tweaking done. Most people posting I believe to be in there early 20's to high 20's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So before everyone cries nerf everyone else again. What are you opinions.</DIV>

[Azry]

<DIV>Someone who is 40+ is not going to be reading the boards, they will be in the game, playing day and night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS-As some predicted there is already a WoW character who hit 60 and got epic mount. Basically, a completed character, in how long? </DIV>

[Reol]

<DIV>The point Im trying to make is simply this. IF the guardians are so broken, I would like someone of a higher level than 22 to share there opinions and a person who is even 35-40. Has a better idea of what there character is all about than someone that is lvl 22.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the WoW im not suprised as I have been lead to understand that blizzard is emphazising leveling to get to the end game content....if that is true, i give it a month. unless the game is all end game content...hell they should just give everyone a lvl 60 character and be done with it.</DIV>

[Fable_E]

<DIV>I can't say that im 35+.. im close to 31 now and Thakras in my guild is 44 or 45 at this point.   I never hear him complain and he doesn't seem unhappy with his pick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im very happy with my pick and growing happier everyday.   Many of my agro problems are problems for other tanks (ie. SKs and Pallys).  Some of them are caused by my use of Hunker Down... but luckily at 30.6 I can finally retire it for App 3 Dig In.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you lose agro and can pop Sentinel and start knocking mobs off their feet it all becomes worth it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony still needs to address the agro issue with Taunts but I still am happy with my choice.. </DIV>

[Medow]

<DIV><FONT size=2>Why is it that some people feel that only the end-game is what matters? Even if it were true that Guardians "come into their own" after level 40+, does that spontaneously negate the fact that Guardians are gimped for the majority of the game? A player shouldnt have to wait until he approaches the highest level of experience just to perform how he should perform to begin with.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>-Medowin</FONT></DIV>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Medowin wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=2>Why is it that some people feel that only the end-game is what matters? Even if it were true that Guardians "come into their own" after level 40+, does that spontaneously negate the fact that Guardians are gimped for the majority of the game? A player shouldnt have to wait until he approaches the highest level of experience just to perform how he should perform to begin with.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>-Medowin</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> This is the thing that seems to be constantly  skirted. I dont want 'come into my own' when Im level 40. I want to be on par with everyone else now (whether Im level 20, 30 or whatever). Whether it is an issue of reducing the effectiveness of another classes abilities or increasing the strength of the Guardians, some changes do need to be made. Making the argument that "well I know you suck now, but just wait until you are bigger" is a cop-out. Taunt needs to be fixed. Once I become a Guardian (ie at level 20) I should be able to out taunt any other class on the battlefield. How can I do my job effectively if I can not?

[Reol]

<DIV>Then let them FIX GUARDIAN's, too many people sitting and crying that zerkers need to be nerfed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think anyone should sit and wait for a character, which btw as I continue to hear isn't that bad all together anyways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the ignorance of people saying.... "hey my class has problems, nerf the other guy". Has been an echo that has gone through the forums of every game since everquest came out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do think berserkers get some of there damage skills early on bloodlust is level 23 afterall....but we don't get an upgrade again till lvl 36+. I have stated either up the level req to something like 27-30....change how much aggro is done with the skill so it increases from say 10% at level 23 up to 100% at say level 35. OR give the guardians something comparible at the lower stages of the game, such as a guardian only taunt. aoe taunt that doesn't necessarily drive them to the top of the aggro chain, but will boost them up the ladder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But do remember we are both tank classes that should be able to tank, berserkers are the damage dealers and guardians are protectors...if that statement is a suprise then people should learn to read class descriptions.</DIV>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Reolas wrote:<BR> <DIV>But the ignorance of people saying.... "hey my class has problems, nerf the other guy". Has been an echo that has gone through the forums of every game since everquest came out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But do remember we are both tank classes that should be able to tank, berserkers are the damage dealers and guardians are protectors...if that statement is a suprise then people should learn to read class descriptions.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, and it will continue to do so. There will always be those unhappy with some facet of another class and unhappy with facets of their class and will jump on a nerf of the other classes as the easiest solutions. I know this, you know this and the Devs know this. I would rather Guardians be fixed, rather than Zerkers be nerfed as what goes around comes around and I dont want the same to happen to us because I looked askance at a mage one afternoon and he starts calling for a Guardian nerf. </P> <P> I dont expect to be the only tank. Hell most of the time, I dont even mind not being the MT, I spend a lot less time face down that way. The problem seems to be that on the surface, zerkers have high DPS + good MT ability, while, Guardians have good MT ability and low DPS. This would make it appear that Guardians got the short end of the stick, hence the complaints. Your suggestions are good ones and mirror those made by others. You also need to note that the majority of the posters here arent just ignorantly calling for a nerf. Most of the posts I have read have asked for the same things you have, for the problems to be addressed and fixed. However, that needs to be done. </P> <P>The fact remains that  the Guardian (as do other classes) has problems that need to be addressed and if we cant bring them up on the Guardian forums, where can we? </P> <P>Fact: The Squeaky Wheel gets the Grease. So we are Squeaking. :smileywink:</P> <P><BR> </P>

[achir]

Guardians are not broken. I don't have time to elaborate because the servers will be back up soon. All I can say is that I have 3 lvl 42 characters on permafrost.... a necro, an inquisitor, and a guardian. The guardian is the least gimped of them all, so quit your complaining.

[Saphar]

<DIV>40 Guardian here. I'm fine with my class. At one point (late 20s or so) I felt a little weak compared to berserkers, but that's all gone now. At 40 you get a skill called Retallation that, at apprentice I, is an instant DD (1 min recast time) of up to 450 damage. Combine that with stackable maim(200 dot, 100dd) and ferocious charge(250dot, 100dd) plus True Strike, Crush, etc. and you're able to produce decent DPS when you want. The one-handers at 40 are also quite easily capable of doing over 100 damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then you figure in damage mitigation, increased parry and AC(dig in, call of protection and call to battle) plus the massive hitpoint lead you have on berserkers with Iron Will and Do or Die up, and you start to notice a big difference in how healers use mana from class to class. Guardians are easily the champs in this regard. Taunting also isn't a problem anymore except when fighting big groups with a berserker(rage is apparently an aoe taunt). You have 5 taunts at level 40(taunting blow, taunting challenge, vengeful strike, suppress and smothering cry) that can easily buffer each other's refresh times to make for non-stop taunting, and on single-pulls, no one can get that mob off of you if you're trying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Moontayle]

<DIV>So essentially, as the divergence gets further and further from the Zerkers, we get better and better at getting and keeping aggro, as well as coming into our own as Damage Sponges. That's what I wanted to hear. It doesn't bother me that much that Zerkers are taking aggro in the low 20s. If it's a critical situation and they end up dying because they can't take the beating then they'll learn their end of aggro control, that's all. In the meantime, I'll stay on doing my job while he cries about the hit his armor took.</DIV>

[ThramFalc]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sapharos wrote:<BR> <DIV>40 Guardian here. I'm fine with my class. At one point (late 20s or so) I felt a little weak compared to berserkers, but that's all gone now. At 40 you get a skill called Retallation that, at apprentice I, is an instant DD (1 min recast time) of up to 450 damage. Combine that with stackable maim(200 dot, 100dd) and ferocious charge(250dot, 100dd) plus True Strike, Crush, etc. and you're able to produce decent DPS when you want. The one-handers at 40 are also quite easily capable of doing over 100 damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then you figure in damage mitigation, increased parry and AC(dig in, call of protection and call to battle) plus the massive hitpoint lead you have on berserkers with Iron Will and Do or Die up, and you start to notice a big difference in how healers use mana from class to class. Guardians are easily the champs in this regard. Taunting also isn't a problem anymore except when fighting big groups with a berserker(rage is apparently an aoe taunt). You have 5 taunts at level 40(taunting blow, taunting challenge, vengeful strike, suppress and smothering cry) that can easily buffer each other's refresh times to make for non-stop taunting, and on single-pulls, no one can get that mob off of you if you're trying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Does Dig In do anything when your other buffs are up?  Check your skills with and without it up and let us know what changes.  At 29 I notice that with Call of Command and Guardians Call up, Hunker Down and Soldiers Stance have zero upside because I hit the skill caps.  I would like to know if this changes with the new arts somehow.  Perhaps they add different skills...</DIV>

[Azry]

<DIV>"Then you figure in damage mitigation, increased parry and AC(dig in, call of protection and call to battle) plus the massive hitpoint lead you have on berserkers with Iron Will and Do or Die up, and you start to notice a big difference in how healers use mana from class to class. Guardians are easily the champs in this regard."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you for input. Im serious that made my day.</DIV>

[Aurorelle]

<DIV>I'm only 27 but if I'm broken I haven't noticed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I keep agro fine, tank fine, and do what i consider to be decent dps for a tank class. I havent tried playing a zerker, but I know that as a guardian i can do my job just fine. The only time I wonder whether I'm supposed to be broken or not is when I look at this board <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aurore</DIV> <DIV>27 Guardian</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ryutsu]

<i>Even if it were true that Guardians "come into their own" after level 40+, does that spontaneously negate the fact that Guardians are gimped for the majority of the game?</i>1) Guardians aren't "gimped" for the rest of the game. If you think they are, you don't know what a gimped class in an MMO really is.2) Players think the endgame is more important because for a longterm player who plans to stick with the game, 3/4ths of your time there is going to be spent in the endgame. Developers like to balance for the endgame because it keeps players who've "beaten the game" playing and paying. Perfect balance, across all classes, at all levels, is <i>impossible</i>. You're always going to be unhappy with class X getting their power ability at one level and you not having yours until two levels later, or class Y being a better tank than you through the 20s. Better then, to balance for the endgame than to balance level 20 or level 35, because you're going to be spending a lot more time at 40+, and even more time at 50. Whether you like it or not, sometimes another class is just going to be a little better than you at *insert fast and largely irrelevant level here*. You can compensate for much of this by being a good player (Hint: try reading constructive threads and starting advice threads on your class forum rather than whining at anyone and everyone) and by grouping with friends who don't care if you don't tank quite as well as das uber tank. Anybody who cries for balance changes at 30 that might end up affecting balance at 50 is causing more problems than they're solving.

[Rie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ryutsuba wrote:<BR><I>Even if it were true that Guardians "come into their own" after level 40+, does that spontaneously negate the fact that Guardians are gimped for the majority of the game?</I><BR><BR>1) Guardians aren't "gimped" for the rest of the game. If you think they are, you don't know what a gimped class in an MMO really is.<BR><BR>2) Players think the endgame is more important because for a longterm player who plans to stick with the game, 3/4ths of your time there is going to be spent in the endgame. Developers like to balance for the endgame because it keeps players who've "beaten the game" playing and paying. Perfect balance, across all classes, at all levels, is <I>impossible</I>. You're always going to be unhappy with class X getting their power ability at one level and you not having yours until two levels later, or class Y being a better tank than you through the 20s. Better then, to balance for the endgame than to balance level 20 or level 35, because you're going to be spending a lot more time at 40+, and even more time at 50. Whether you like it or not, sometimes another class is just going to be a little better than you at *insert fast and largely irrelevant level here*. You can compensate for much of this by being a good player (Hint: try reading constructive threads and starting advice threads on your class forum rather than whining at anyone and everyone) and by grouping with friends who don't care if you don't tank quite as well as das uber tank. Anybody who cries for balance changes at 30 that might end up affecting balance at 50 is causing more problems than they're solving.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Amen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />