to all those complaining about Guardians being sub-par.

[Karma1]

<DIV>First of all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not everyone has same equipment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some may have worse some may have better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AC and and a good wep can make a big difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2ndly. Using your skills properly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A guardian isnt always supposed to "Tank" sure they are good at it, but what they do best is "GUARDING" IE taking dmg away from someone that is being hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3rdly, why are guardians crying for other classes to be nerfed?? that wont help you. it will hurt your groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you must whine, just ask that YOUR class be improved. dont try to hurt other people merely cause you dont know how to play your class properly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know a few high levle guardians that are quite happy with their chossen path. They also play it very well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those ignorant people who would rather whine then play properly, you're always going to have problems no matter what happens because you're narrowminded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Buck up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians are a fine class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play using all skills and working as a team. not all me me me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Azry]

<DIV>I did numerous informal tests last night with and without armor, using CoC/GC and without and there was even a hapless wizard in my group who would stand next to me and take full barrage hits from mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My initial assessment:</DIV> <DIV>We definitely are mitigating some special attacks when I previously felt we werent. We just arent mitigating them to degree of the melee attacks.This may be resist related.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our taunts have definitely been increased noticeably with the patch. Especially the post 20 ones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall, I think we only need a few minor tweaks related to balance issues vs. zerkers. This could take alot of different forms and may even be a nonissue at 50. Im in favor of a slight edge in hp(8%)/dmg mitigation(4%) at 50.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Some of this discontent is a holdover from EQ1 warrior mentality, the first class ever to hold a virtual protest complete with a "sit-in"(stand down) in an MMO. Im sure some people here remember that.</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>One thing Im sure of, we do not need a nerf in mitigation as some of our fellow guardians are saying. This would be big problems for groups coming up through the levels and already struggling with exp debt at the level of the national deficit.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Azryal on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:33 AM</span>

[DragonNin]

<DIV>I just don't understand why this thread exists since this is maybe the 10th one I have read saying the same thing. So you're saying that evereyone who whines is a playing like a [Removed for Content] and it's there fault? Mmmmm Hmmm... I play a guardian and I agree with alot of the problems that people speak of about this class. This class is a little borked. I knew when this game came out there would be this kind of trouble since they are trying to please everyone. Can you say "Too many classes"? There are so many classes in the game they watered down everyones role. There is no definite in this game. This could be a good thing but, if you just want to play a tank there is no real choice. Which is very frustrating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like how you say that the guardian should Defensive buff the real tank i.e Zerker or maybe monk? That's hilarious. Why would ANY guardian want to do this? Seriously! Can you imagine. You have the LOWEST DPS output of any other fighter. You have all this armor you worked hard for. You have this really nice shield and all these taunts at your disposal. Oh wait!!! No you cannot tank man! Just cast intervene or whatever on the REAL tank i.e Zerk. So you now you just stand back and hit the <insert mob name> with your crappy damage output. WEEEEEEEE FUN!!   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this is the path they want the guardian to take then, they can take this class and shovel it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Reol]

<DIV>I prefer the guardian to tank instead of myself (Berserker), I like to dual wield not use shield and 1h. I can pull mobs off if aggro goes south towards the casters, I can fill in as main tank and even use my dual wields but im not as effective, the guardian gets as i have stated many times and I will continue to do so. Guardian gets later in levels group defensive buffs, aoe taunts, defensive boosts for yourselfs...berserkers doesn't get anything like that...YES we can tank but we are the damage dealers not the absorbers. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our role is more versitale yes, but we do pay for that, we do in the long run end up with lower defense than the guardians do, sure i can wear the same plate as you but what if at lvl 50 you can add like 250 more AC to your total from your own buffs...well **mods 4 teh win!!1!** that makes you a better tank than me right there....or if a guardian doesn't want to main tank then he doesn't have to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also too for all those guys complaining....how many groups could a lower level warrior in eq 1 get into.where he wasn't par or higher than the rest of the group, atleast here you have the ability to join grps even if your a lower level guardian who can't main tank an area and still provide assistance to your group besides sitting there and poking away for no damage and just filling dead space. You can add defense to the rest of the group.</DIV>

[Medow]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>"Not everyone has same equipment. Some may have worse some may have better. AC and and a good wep can make a big difference."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So you're claiming that there isn't balance issues because theres a chance that other people's equipment might be sub-par? What happens when it isn't? Perhaps people who play Guardians should constantly be looking for rare drops and equipment in a desperate attempt to have a slightly higher ac and mitigate the fact they are gimped that way. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>"2ndly. Using your skills properly. A guardian isnt always supposed to "Tank" sure they are good at it, but what they do best is "GUARDING" IE taking dmg away from someone that is being hit."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I don't think many people are going to buy the idea that a Guardian is a support buffer and not a tank. But lets say for the sake of argument that they are. How does that improve anything? As a tank a Guardian experiences balance issues with Berserker concerning aggro. As a support class they'd be nothing more than a troubador that is stripped bare of all essential abilities. The balance issues are prevailent any way you try and twist it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>"3rdly, why are guardians crying for other classes to be nerfed?? that wont help you. it will hurt your groups. If you must whine, just ask that YOUR class be improved. dont try to hurt other people merely cause you dont know how to play your class properly."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Its this sort of primitive view that makes devs so reluctant to properly address game balancing. When a class has one ability that is over-powered you don't keep it as-is and make every other ability higher just to try and keep the kiddies happy, you address the matter that is causing the problem and fix it. In this case the problem is the Berserker's ability "bloodlust" which draws far more aggro than it should. And as for "hurting groups", the idea behind this game is not to make it easy to destroy all mobs with l33t p0w4rz, but to play in a gaming environment that is equally rewarding to create and cultivate a character as it pertains to the game world. This is impossible to accomplish unless all player classes are balanced between each other. Sometimes, like it or not, this means lowering certain abilities.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>-Medowin</FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Medowin on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:34 AM</span>

[Reol]

<DIV>The aggro on the bloodlust should probably be adjusted, but they went and "fixed" bloodrage and took it down to 1/3 of its damage output for the cost of 200hps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem I have is everyone cries nerf and unless your a newbie to these games you know that anytime they nerf a skill the nerf isn't always reasonable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Too many games have nerfed a class to correct a powerleveling problem, but they normally nerf it to the point of useless until they figure out how to fix it (if they fix it.)...and that normally only takes like a year or so for them to address.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To sit here and say a guardian is useless I think you should be level 40+ to say that. Guardians  can still tank..alot of guardians tell me they have no problem holding aggro, so which is it...the class sucks or the player isn't using there character properly, before running out to grab the nerf bat at the first sign of a precieved unbalance maybe we should see how the classes work out. Do remember some skills we get were supposed to be using like bloodlust well into the mid to high 30's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could simply be a matter of the fact that we get a few skills earlier that make us shine sooner than the guardian, I myself have a hard time believeing there is unbalance. There was unbalance wtih blood rage and we got smacked in the head abit hard on that nerf (IMO.) So you will have to forgive me if I am being defensive about more changes to my class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Medow]

<DIV><FONT size=1>"The problem I have is everyone cries nerf and unless your a newbie to these games you know that anytime they nerf a skill the nerf isn't always reasonable."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So you're saying that nerfs shouldn't be implemented because you're afraid it may be too much? Thats like saying a patient shouldn't go into surgeory because there's always some risk involved. Regardless of whatever fears you might have, the problem still requires to be fixed. Bloodlust draws too much aggro. Thats really all there is to it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Medowin</DIV>

[GenesisForgot]

"Bloodlust draws too much aggro. Thats really all there is to it."Amen. When a character 5 levels below the MT can draw aggro with a single spell activated there is a problem. To deny that bloodlust isn't rediculously out of line with the rest of EQ2 is foolishness.

[Ainm]

Okay, first of all, I'm not normally a spelling [Removed for Content], but I have seriously had enough of people spelling it "rediculous"Man, it's R I D I C U L O U S. Sorry, it saddens me to see the Internet being an awesome medium for mispelling. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />On to the point, they definitely need to fix the aggro generation on bloodlust.

[Reol]

<DIV>You people do realize that bloodlust is a skill that berserkers use till there i think lvl 37 or 38 so that means it has to last us a long time. Maybe they should look at moving bloodlust up the pole towards say lvl 28. That is why I don't want to see it nerfed, its not a skill that will be upgraded for along time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would prefer to see them up the req for it than totally destroy the skill.</DIV>

[dinner da]

<DIV>"It could simply be a matter of the fact that we get a few skills earlier that make us shine sooner than the guardian, I myself have a hard time believeing there is unbalance."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That in and of itself is unbalance.  This means a berzerker is more effective than a guardian UNTIL we get these skills at lvl 30+ or whatever. In other words, we have to struggle with what we have until we reach the early 30s or 40s when we can be on par with what berzerkers had in the early 20s. If that's not unbalanced I don't know what is. I myself don't want berzerkers to be nerfed, but to say there's not a balance issue is unfathomable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: moving bloodlust up the pole is an interesting fix; however, I'm sure there would be a lot of angry zerkers would that happen.</DIV><p>Message Edited by dinner dave on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:35 AM</span>

[Reol]

<DIV>I don't care if they do, I think that the spell is set to be uber now and great later....we do get this skill at lvl 23 so it is quite effective at this point...and after all I don't think the next upgrade is till lvl 37 or so. We had one of our skills that is really usefull brought to teh point of extinction 50 pts isn't that great...100 pts or 80 pts its just abit better or 50 pts and the proc rate is doubled or something that makes sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They might be able to get the skill to give out only so much aggro per level like 10% of max at lvl 23...50% at lvl 30 and 100% at lvl 35 then we get a new one at like lvl 36-37 or something .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That or they could just make a skill that guards get build up more aggro, which i think is a better solution.</DIV>

[dinner da]

<DIV>That's a fine idea, and I think all the guardians would agree a skill that builds up defense and aggro for us in the low 20s would be great.</DIV>

[Medow]

<P><FONT size=1>"Sorry, it saddens me to see the Internet being an awesome medium for mispelling. "</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>The correct spelling is "misspelling". If you want to make meaningless flamer/troll posts, might help to practice what you preach first.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>-Medowin</FONT></P>

[Ainm]

Indeed.

[God_of_Avalon]

<DIV>"A guardian isnt always supposed to "Tank" sure they are good at it, but what they do best is "GUARDING" IE taking dmg away from someone that is being hit."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taunting a mob off a player being attacked is the best way to take the damage for that person.  Zerkers make the best taunters.  They make the best "guard" class.  Think before you post.</DIV>

[Mig]

Can any of you find me in the documentation, or a dev post, or the prima guide that guardians are supposed to be the best taunters, always bar none?

[Karma1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GenesisForgoten wrote:<BR>"Bloodlust draws too much aggro. Thats really all there is to it."<BR><BR>Amen. When a character 5 levels below the MT can draw aggro with a single spell activated there is a problem. To deny that bloodlust isn't rediculously out of line with the rest of EQ2 is foolishness.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>you sir are quite wrong.</P> <P> </P> <P>Bloodlust draws agro cause it makes the Zerker hasted...hasted fighter dmg > non hasted fighter dmg.</P> <P>Haste = more dmg = Berserker</P> <P>AC = better defense = Guardian.</P> <P>Our haste is the only thing that makes Zerkers more offensive then guardians right now.</P> <P>Take that away and we are gimped tanks that dont even do good dmg.</P> <P>When you spoke to the NPC about changing class. it asked you to summarize "Want to be Offensive or Defensive?"</P> <P>Zerkers choose O, Guards choose D.</P> <P>Zerkers can sacrifice Defense and/or offensive to tank good.</P> <P>Guardians dont sacrifice anything to tank good.</P> <P>Zerkers can hold agro better because of their haste + taunt = more hate then just taunt but zerkers take more dmg.</P> <P>There is a median, there is a balance.</P> <P>Quit whining already you bitter guardians.<BR></P>

[God_of_Avalon]

<DIV>"Can any of you find me in the documentation, or a dev post, or the prima guide that guardians are supposed to be the best taunters, always bar none?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well in the class discription I am supposed to be the best guard.  That is the purpose of my class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Tank just as well as me my friend, wear the same armor, and heck even out tank me if you want.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Do more dps then me, that is fine too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Please allow me to be the best character in the game to guard, tank and stave off mobs from other players, as this was supposed to be my role, not yours.</DIV>

[Mig]

First off, I'm a guardian. Second off, show me the quote. Show me where it says "guardians are supposed to be the best guards."It might say "guardians have the best protection spells in the warrior subclass" or"guardians are the best at taking a heavy beating" but other than that....Show me the money!If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll happily admit it. Just show me proof. OH, and if you mean "to guard" is the same as "to hold agro" your just wrong.

[EQJun]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> God_of_Avalon wrote:<BR> <DIV>"A guardian isnt always supposed to "Tank" sure they are good at it, but what they do best is "GUARDING" IE taking dmg away from someone that is being hit."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taunting a mob off a player being attacked is the best way to take the damage for that person.  Zerkers make the best taunters.  They make the best "guard" class.  Think before you post.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The above statement is completely flawed.  No offense, but it contains nothing of substance, but rather a complete misinterpretation of what is actually happening.  "Guarding" is not a directly associated with taunting.  "Guarding" is the sheilding and protecting of your allies physically, instead of raw tanking ability.  This interpretation allows SOE to acheive their balance in sole tanking ability, which alot of guardians are desperately trying to ignore.  </P> <P><STRONG>The definition of a guardian is:<BR></STRONG>"<EM>Guardians don heavy armor to protect themselves in combat and aid in the defense of their allies.  They stand firm against any threat and lead their party to victory</EM>"</P> <P>There is no mention of taunting or the class that is best suited to grab their foe's attention.  They are never donned the almighty meat shield.  They are never interpreted as the EQ1 warrior that many think is the case.  </P> <P>They ARE however seen to be defensive units designed to protect themselves AND their allies.  AND THEIR ALLIES.  That means there is an expected point when guardians will not be able to have the attention of an enemy and must otherwise PROTECT THEIR ALLIES BY GUARDING THEM AND NOT TAUNTING.  AND THEIR ALLIES.  </P> <P>This is a new game with different interpretations of what roles are.  Think of it as if you have never played a game before and are wondering what your role is.  Your role is to mitigate damage to yourself and your party.  You are a physical rune.  You are not the almight super tanting meat shield you were accustomed to in EQLive.    </P>

[Mig]

Finally sanity comes to the boards. I thought I was the only one who read the manual.

[maximus2500]

<DIV>First off im a 32 Gaurdian, I am so sick of these post.GaurdiansARE THE PURE TANK, GeT IT, I usally have NO PROBLEMS HOLDING AGRO, NONE, ZERO, you need to set yourself up to tank , look at your defensive skills and look what it does to your char ROOTS you to the groud slows movment ect ect. YOUR not a puller so dont pull have a pulling class ranger . Zerker bruiser waht ever bring you your mobs , and taunt off them  If by soem reason the people you are playing with cant run and control there Class you can buff them defensively Rescue them yeah emergency taunt and go about tanking ... Gaurds HAve the best mitigation, Highest AC, highest HP hands down in the game. There will be no subsitute for  gaurd On raid mobs </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are the main tank we will be the main tank and will continue to be the main tank all the way to 50</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It time for you **mods 4 teh win!!1!**ing losers to shut the **mods 4 teh win!!1!** up and learn how to play your class </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Reol]

<DIV>Maximus2500 doesn't sound like hes complaining about the zerker and there ability to outtaunt the guardian, and hes over lvl 30 hmmm....again i say all those that are not lvl 30 stop whining and play your class if you think you need to do more dps than a zerker...reroll.....if you think your supposed to be the only tank well thats too bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is the Guardian Gimped...well one of your own answered your own **mods 4 teh win!!1!** question. Stop blaming the **mods 4 teh win!!1!** zerkers because you don't like your class, or you don't know how to play your own class.</DIV>

[GenesisForgot]

sigh..once again, its not an issue of me not liking my class or not knowing how to play him.I just HATE grouping with berserkers. They are fine and we are fine, I just can't keep aggro off them if they use thier primary abilities. How is that not wrong? The DPS/haste isn't the issue its that zerkers are casting a buff over and over and over which super taunts everything in the encounter - which means if I am higher level and SHOULD be tanking I can't. There's a problem there. You guys can try to ignore it but its annoying to the point where I will not group with a zerker lower level or less equiped than myself. I have ZERO problems NOT being the MT and assisting and using my guard abilities but I will not play with somebody who continually causes group problems and makes situations dangerous by taking aggro and ooping healers. As the leader of most every group I play in that means no zerkers will be allowed in. No I'm not being a whiner, I just don't want the hastle or problems associated with it. The other 22 classes in the game present no consistant problem to aggro management like a zerker does.I've been in groups where I am not the leader and everybody agrees that there is zero reason to have a zerker in our group unless he's a better tank than myself, otherwise he's just a liability. This is a problem for all classes, not just guardians/zerkers. Its not whining to present it to the devs in a reasonable manner (it has gotten out of control lately tho).

[God_of_Avalon]

<DIV>(GenisisForgoten, the above posters lack the intelligence to understand what you are saying.  I am sick and tired of watching you have to point out the obvious over and over, only for it to be missed over and over.) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--Maximus2500-- it has been stated about 100 times that we do not having problems taunting in normal groups, yet your whole rant is the same old "I don't understand why you don't know how to hit your taunt key" song and dance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Since this conversation is above your intelligence level, can you please not post on this subject any longer?  Thank you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>p.s. If your abilities to comprehend simple sentenses were a bit higher you would realize this is an issue of a zerker shouldn't out aggro a guardian even when the zerker isn't taunting and the guardian is.  Bloodlust alone is way too powerful of an aggro increaser.  Lower the hate increase of bloodlust and all is fine.</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by God_of_Avalon on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:07 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by God_of_Avalon on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:08 PM</span>

[eqbunn]

"The above statement is completely flawed. No offense, but it contains nothing of substance, but rather a complete misinterpretation of what is actually happening. "Guarding" is not a directly associated with taunting. "Guarding" is the sheilding and protecting of your allies physically, instead of raw tanking ability. This interpretation allows SOE to acheive their balance in sole tanking ability, which alot of guardians are desperately trying to ignore. The definition of a guardian is:"Guardians don heavy armor to protect themselves in combat and aid in the defense of their allies. They stand firm against any threat and lead their party to victory"There is no mention of taunting or the class that is best suited to grab their foe's attention. They are never donned the almighty meat shield. They are never interpreted as the EQ1 warrior that many think is the case. They ARE however seen to be defensive units designed to protect themselves AND their allies. AND THEIR ALLIES. That means there is an expected point when guardians will not be able to have the attention of an enemy and must otherwise PROTECT THEIR ALLIES BY GUARDING THEM AND NOT TAUNTING. AND THEIR ALLIES. This is a new game with different interpretations of what roles are. Think of it as if you have never played a game before and are wondering what your role is. Your role is to mitigate damage to yourself and your party. You are a physical rune. You are not the almight super tanting meat shield you were accustomed to in EQLive."EQJunky wrote this, Please if you are going to go off the book please post it all.The definition the heaviest of armor to protect themselves in combat and aid in the defense of their allies. They stand firm against any threat and bear the brunt of the attacks while felling opponets with a variety of weapons" is the RIGHT definition from the book. it also says we wear heavy, vanguard and plate where bezerkers can only wear plate. If you want to go by book please post it all. ...side note in the defenition the wording says "heaviest of armor"We are not meant to be a human rune, or a guard buff bot. we are meant to tank and we are meant to take dmg better then you. Just like you are meant to deal dmg better then us. They never meant for you to be the main tank with no choice. They meant for you to be a Main tank when a better guardian is not around, Just like a monk is meant to be a tank when a better bezerker is not around. ect all of us can tank, we all do it diffrent.Star Winterfall29 Guardian<p>Message Edited by eqbunnie on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 PM</span>

[God_of_Avalon]

<DIV>"They ARE however seen to be defensive units designed to protect themselves AND their allies. AND THEIR ALLIES. That means there is an expected point when guardians will not be able to have the attention of an enemy and must otherwise PROTECT THEIR ALLIES BY GUARDING THEM AND NOT TAUNTING. AND THEIR ALLIES. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best way in my opinion to GUARD and PROTECT another player is to obtain the aggro from that said player so I take the monsters damage, rather then the player being attacked.  (zerkers are king of this technique)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best way in your opinion to guard and protect a player being attacked is to cast weak guard spells on them which might allow you to stave off 5-10% of the damage the player needed protection is playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is were we differ.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[asteldian]

<DIV>I wouldnt count lowering aggro on bloodlust as a nerf, i wouldnt have thought too many zerkers would object to it happening, they dont want to have to 'watch what they are doing' when not main tank.  I think it wasnt meant to be so high, and if it was to be high because its used till late 30s then they need to scale aggro so lower lvls its not so powerful an aggro tool.  Zerkers have plenty of ways to maintain aggro, they have high DPS for a start, so them losing aggro on one ability shouldnt effect them much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than the aggro issue i really dont see big issues with guardian, they tank well they secondary tank well, jsut like the other tanks.</DIV>

[God_of_Avalon]

<DIV>Asteldian, you are very wise.  Lower the aggro of bloodlust and make everybody happy across the board.</DIV>

[Styk]

Ok berserkers already ate a nerf on BloodRage , now you want BloodLust to be nerfed as well? **mods 4 teh win!!1!** you guardians want? Pls you 35+ guardians tell your younger ones what it is like to play a Guard because slowly but surely your making your class look like a bunch of whiners.... Play to 35+ as a guardian and if their is any problems then post it but if you havent yet then you dont know what your class can do

[Tru3_Pl4y]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Styker wrote:<BR>Ok berserkers already ate a nerf on BloodRage , now you want BloodLust to be nerfed as well? **mods 4 teh win!!1!** you guardians want? Pls you 35+ guardians tell your younger ones what it is like to play a Guard because slowly but surely your making your class look like a bunch of whiners.... <BR><BR>Play to 35+ as a guardian and if their is any problems then post it but if you havent yet then you dont know what your class can do<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Im sorry but you cant deny that bloodlust has stupidly high agro pulling capabilities. some tests by people have shown a zerker only auto-attacking wih bloodlust on can steal agro from a guardian (or any other fighter class) who is spamming every taunt they have. That is unbalanced, i believe that bloodlust is buggd as it is constantly buffing when the zerker hits which means mass mass agro as its classed as a buff.

[GenesisForgot]

Lowering its aggro wouldn't be a nerf. Lowering its damage and speed would be. I don't even care if they keep it as it is as long as they raise Guardian hate generation to comparable levels.What I think would be REALLY cool is a defensive type of Guardian "bloodlust" that makes us generate hate and lower our DPS while raising our defense. This would be the exact opposite of bloodlust but have a similar aggro effect as it continually rebuffs us during use, spamming aggro.Who knows tho..If you think my statements are whining I think you're deluded. All I'm asking for is very simple adjustments. No nerfs required to any class. I'm not going crazy about it and I don't have class envy. Take a chill pill for crying out loud.